What's the deal with Citgo and Venezuela?

[Mastertank1]

Have you heard about this?
Citgo and Venezuela are teaming up to sell 100 MILLION gallons of home heating oil at way below current market prices, on a sliding price scale to poor households in the northern USA.
The word I've heard is that they are not taking a financial loss on the deal, just a smaller profit.
I think they're making a point, proving that the big US oil companies are gouging us on price way beyond what's neccessary, and their claims that it's not under their control and that they don't have the power to lower prices is pure bullshit.
I also think Chavez (Prez in Venezuela) is doing it to annoy and embarrass Bush. (Oil in Venezuela is a government operation, not private enterprise).
It sure got Bushie's attention. He's announced that he's seeking a meeting with Chavez, all of a sudden. I think Bush wants to either bully or bribe Chavez into knocking it off with the cheap oil. I hope he fails to do either.

[Robace252]

Tank....
honest question.
Would you feel the same way if it was Iran's President willing to do the same thing.

If Chavez wants to do it, so be it. But its not going to change my mind about him, and most likely at the core, not most Americans.

A bribe is a bribe is a bribe.

Perhaps Bushie might convince his friends and family in the industry to undercut Chavez.


If the Dems want to beat up on and embarass Bushie...I have no problem with it. But when someone like Chavez wants too, then I honestly get a little testy.

Rob

[Strider]

It's not technically a team up, Citgo's a fully owned subsidiary of PDVSA.

[tickledgirl]

It's not technically a team up, Citgo's a fully owned subsidiary of PDVSA.

But...but...Citgo told (http://www.citgo.com/AboutCITGO.jsp) me they're "an American icon." Surely they wouldn't mislead me!

On the other hand, the guy on the banner does look pretty scary. The POV makes me feel like the victim in a horror flick...

[storm7400]

I see it as a tasteful gesture because it helps the lower income families in need of heating oil. I feel that this is something that doesn't need to face scrutiny because even though there may be other motives involved, people in need are being helped and that is what is important!

[Strider]

I'm also pretty sure this is old news. Venezuela did this in late 2005 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4461946.stm), I can't find anything on Citgo's website saying they're planning to do it again.

[tickledgirl]

I'm also pretty sure this is old news. Venezuela did this in late 2005 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4461946.stm), I can't find anything on Citgo's website saying they're planning to do it again.

Yeah, if nothing else this is something they'd plan in early fall. Planning to sell lots of heating oil right at the end of heating season doesn't make a lot of sense.

[MrMacphisto]

Chavez may be manipulative, but I agree with Storm. He's doing something that helps the poor, which is more than I can say for anything Bush has done.

[Mastertank1]

I've been seeing TV commercials advertising this cheap heating oil program every day for the last two months, at all times of day. After the first month they switched to a new commercial.

That hardly sounds like something they did two years ago; especially not the part where they flash a phone number to contact if you want to sign up to get the cheap oil.

I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be paying for those commercials unless they were doing it again, right now. The last time I saw one of those commercials was yesterday.

[tickledgirl]

I've been seeing TV commercials advertising this cheap heating oil program every day for the last two months, at all times of day. After the first month they switched to a new commercial.

That hardly sounds like something they did two years ago; especially not the part where they flash a phone number to contact if you want to sign up to get the cheap oil.

I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be paying for those commercials unless they were doing it again, right now. The last time I saw one of those commercials was yesterday.

Whoops, missed that. Yeah, if Tony Snow was talking about it (actually refusing to talk about it) it's gotta be true. Looks like this is the second winter they've been doing this. Although they did evidently step up their advertising campaign recently.

Y'know what? If they're willing to spend millions to subsidize low cost heating for those in need, I think that's the kind of political attacks we can deal with.

I do think I'd have more of a problem with it if it came from Iran. Iran's declared themselves our enemy, and acted accordingly. Chavez is a demogogue, but he's an elected leader, and I don't see Venezuela as any kind of threat to us. (Conventional or terror.) So if he wants to help out some Americans who need it to twist Bush's tail, why should we object?

BTW, that's not just a rhetorical question. I'd be open to arguments either way. Rob?

[Strider]

It's apparently still ongoing then, but the intiative isn't a new one.

I also need to point out this sort of stunt isn't new. Peron donated winter clothing to needy families in New York during the late 1940s. A populist knows the value of a good stunt when they see it, especially when said populist is contending for hemispheric leadership. Chavez is basically more concerned with playing to his fan club in the international left than solving problems in Venezuela, sooner or later, his voters are going to get tired of that.

[Robace252]

BTW, that's not just a rhetorical question. I'd be open to arguments either way. Rob?
Well like I said it doesnt really bother me one way or the other.
The poor are getting something they need, and Chavez is jerkin off in the corner about making Bushie look bad (like Bushie needs anyone to help him with that)

It makes me no mind. And I guess there is a diffrence between Iran saying they hate "America" and Chavez saying "I hate Bush".
After all heck Id take cheap fuel from Chavez..then snicker about it later because it wouldnt change my mind.

But you know I would also take cheap fuel from Iran, then dump it on him and light it on fire.

Rob

[MrMacphisto]

It's apparently still ongoing then, but the intiative isn't a new one.

I also need to point out this sort of stunt isn't new. Peron donated winter clothing to needy families in New York during the late 1940s. A populist knows the value of a good stunt when they see it, especially when said populist is contending for hemispheric leadership. Chavez is basically more concerned with playing to his fan club in the international left than solving problems in Venezuela, sooner or later, his voters are going to get tired of that.

True, but it seems like our own leader is most concerned with playing to his fan club on the "international right."

Don't get me wrong, I don't like Bush or Chavez, but in many ways, it's two sides of the same coin.

[Deadsea7777]

I don't like Bush or Chavez, but in many ways, it's two sides of the same coin.


I believe they are not sides of the same coin. Bush can be in government for only 8 years no more.
Chavez is asking for a third period after the first two. He has got 18 months of government by decree, which he has use to pass more than 40 laws, that could not pass earlier because of the opposition in the parliament, among which the restriction of the press recently. And in 1992 he attempted a take over government (democratically elected) by a coup using the Venezuelan army, but he failed.

Bush may be many things, but he has to do everything by vote, even invade Irak. And ultimately his time in power is limited to a maximum of 8 years, and he has never attempt a coup against a USA democratically elected government.

And there is one more thing if the President of Iran, says “I will drop an H Bomb in the USA” I will take him seriously, try to find out if he is capable to carry the treat.
If President Bush said “I will drop an H Bomb in Iran or Venezuela” I will look to the Congress and the USA press and if they approve I would worry about the treat to the planet.
If Chavez says “I will drop an H bomb in the USA”, I will just change the channel. He is a clown and Brazil will limit his power in South America, because there only one king in South America …..and it is Brazil.

[nowayjose]

I think Ahmadinejad is a clown, too. He's overrated, or rather "misoverestimated". Just like Bush. Curiously, both look quite similar.. the same smug but stupid grin.
Chavez is a sometimes silly populist who I had great sympathy for a couple years ago but his childish and often seemingly unprovoked rants are irritating. As is his one-man show of the great revolutionary (wannabe) and his inviting of figures like Ahmadinejad just to spite Bush. But perhaps that's what his Venezuelan base wants to see. He seems to actually have some success in redistributing the oil wealth to the poor and that's the important thing, imho. Anyone who wrests some power from the international and US oil corporations and puts some of the earnings to good use has my support.

[tickledgirl]

Hey, guess which law firm is registered as Chavez's (sorry, Citgo's) lobbyist? Why that'd be Bracewell & Giuliani (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=a4Gvp1ATkE9M&refer=latin_america)!

If Republicans learn more about Rudy, I can't see how there's any way he's gonna get the nomination.