Does love really mean never having to say your sorry?

[Cosmo_ac]

a few days ago i was on another forum that has a scrolling chat on the top of it. I was talking with a few people and one of the female members their, whom i know and like a good deal, made a few comments in a fun teasin manner, but because of what she said i was a little offended/upset about it. I pointed this out, and she quickly appallogized and made it fairly clear she meant nothing personal by her comments, which i already knew as she's a pretty great women. Just some things said, even in joke can rub a person the wrong way, and i think most of us have a touchy subject or two.

Now, i'm not in love with this women, and she isn;t in love with me, so it doesn;t directly apply to the question, but it did get me thinking.


Can two people in love really get by without ever saying "I'm sorry?" All of us, no matter how much we're in love, are still human, and we are slaves to that fact. Sometimes we let things slip, or say something in the wrong way, or hell, sometimes we're just plain dicks to each other. SO i can;t really see how a relationship could survive without saying your sorry at least a few times.

IMO, i don; think it's "Beng in love means you never have to say your sorry.", but should be "Being in love means saying your sorry even if your rght if you've upset or offended your partner.". Just my thoughts anyway. Curious to see what other people think.

[isabeau]

i was raised to believe that an apology, if sincere, is always the right thing to do...no matter who it is...i've said i'm sorry to my husband on several occasions..i do not believe that being in love means never having to say you're sorry...

[Capnmad]

Cosmo, that's a really excellent question... I've had reason to think about this recently, and the more I consider it, the more I see it like this:

The genuine gesture of the apology for things that one has done is still important -- to make that reach.

But it neither undoes what was done, nor does posturing oneself in submission to the offended do anything but stroke their ego by offering a temporary power differential (the offended is now in a superior place of control of accepting or rejecting the apology).

The recipient, therefore, receives less if s/he just accepts the apology than if s/he just acquires a promise that the offender won't do it again (presuming the offender is being honest -- which one assumes if they're to really accept an apology anyway).

So, while I think, for me at least, offering the apology should still be expected in any relationship, the recipient should appreciate the gesture but make clear the offender is forgiven not by the apology (thought that's a good start that they're willing to offer it), but when it's shown that they've learned. That's when it means something, amounts to something.

Life is about learning. Not submitting. Let's not be so self-centered and ego-centric as to demand the latter above the former.

If you truly love someone and others as you love yourself, a genuine "I won't do it again" should be worth more than an "I'm sorry, please forgive me."

At least, that's the way I see it. That's how I forgive.

[isabeau]

^ it's so easy to say i won't do it again..but even though we mean it, sometimes we do make the same mistakes again...we are only human after all...so what's wrong with saying forgive me? the most that can happen is they won't...i never say anymore i won't do it again, as those promises are sometimes hard to keep , depending on the circumstances.. and what is involved..and also i can make the same mistake again quite innocently, without realizing it..

thank goodness i have a husband who forgives me seventy times seventy...which is what the Bible says...not to bring up religion of course...i'll always forgive someone if they are truly sincere about it...i won't make them promise not to do it ever again however...i just hope they won't and maybe learn...as i've had to learn the hard way myself thru multiple mistakes that i have made over and over..that is life..

[Capnmad]

^ it's so easy to say i won't do it again..but even though we mean it, sometimes we do make the same mistakes again...we are only human after all...so what's wrong with saying forgive me?

Absolutely nothing's wrong with it, Izzie. That's why I mention that it's still important and should be expected.

At the same time, I believe learning is more worthwhile than submission, and so it's on the basis of learning and a change of behavior that a person should be forgiven. That's all. And I have no need to feel superior to another person like this (insofar as having the power to offer or withold forgiveness), but I would want them to acknowledge what they did and agree not to do that again. That's more meaningful to me, all things being equal.

And yes, you can say "I won't do it again" and later slip, and if it's a small thing, be forgiven again, etc. But for larger issues, demonstrating concretely that you've learned is key.

Consider infidelity.

[drew70]

It's a very poignant phrase, but I've personally never bought into it, myself. Try as we might, it's impossible to live with somebody, and never cause them grief or irritation. An apology is an important acknowledgement of having wronged somebody. It's a crucial step in healing any damaged relationship, or even a slightly bruised one.

In my opinion, a true apology is one that was never offered at the request or the demand of another. It must come from within.

[Capnmad]

Let me be clear, also. When I say it should be "expected" I mean de rigueur as part of conduct when you've done something that wrongs someone else. The point Drew made reminded me that I should draw a division between that and use of "expected" in terms of a presumptuous individual who demands/expects an apology. The latter is not the context in which I meant it.

Drew, could you clarify what was poignant but you didn't buy into? I want to make sure I understand you.

[Leo tickles]

Personally, one sorry is all I take, no mater who the person is.

I tell them what I absolutely will not tolerate, no matter the relationship ahead of time. If they do it, idiot. If they do it and say sorry, stupid. If they do it twice, ignored.

[Ticklee1973]

I can't imagine any relationship being healthy or communication being open if you didn't say sorry from time to time. Moods change, miscommunications, etc. and saying you're sorry is really going to help smooth things over along with talking out what the miscommunication was. Relationships are hard, plain and simple, doesn't matter how great the two people are. Now, if the other person isn't sincere in their apology, to me anyway it just pisses me off more. If they're just saying it to move along. Open communication and willingness to compromise seems to make things go smoothly and yes being able to say you were wrong or might have offended someone and saying you're sorry goes a long way in both of those instances.

[Vae]

Where in the hell did this ridiculous notion come from? Apologies -- sincere ones -- are vital in a relationship. The lack of apologies, and the refusal to take responsibility for ones actions, is the basis on why my four and a half year relationship failed. Note: I apologized when I did something wrong. :P

Now in my current, much healthier relationship, we don't apologize for small things. Maybe an "oops, I'm sorry!" but it's rare that either he or I have to say, "I really did something wrong. Please forgive me." It may have happened twice, but that's because we're normal human beings who get sidetracked and fuck up. Without those apologies, serious issues arises, because that's indication of selfishness or thoughtlessness.

So, really, relationships, loving relationships, need apologies. Because not one goddamn person on this planet is perfect.

[bugman]

I'm sorry about the two times i allowed myself to fall in love.I won't make that mistake again.Does that count? :upsidedow

[kis123]

Where in the hell did this ridiculous notion come from? Apologies -- sincere ones -- are vital in a relationship. The lack of apologies, and the refusal to take responsibility for ones actions, is the basis on why my four and a half year relationship failed. Note: I apologized when I did something wrong. :P

Now in my current, much healthier relationship, we don't apologize for small things. Maybe an "oops, I'm sorry!" but it's rare that either he or I have to say, "I really did something wrong. Please forgive me." It may have happened twice, but that's because we're normal human beings who get sidetracked and fuck up. Without those apologies, serious issues arises, because that's indication of selfishness or thoughtlessness.

So, really, relationships, loving relationships, need apologies. Because not one goddamn person on this planet is perfect.

:bowing::bowing::bowing::bowing:

.....And the people said.....

A-M-E-N!!!!

Whoever said that love means never having to say you're sorry has never been in love with anyone!!! If you screw up, please apologize and behave as if you're sorry. Make a 180 degree turn away from the mistake and work on never doing it again!

I don't care what the offense is, if you offended your partner, fix it and make amends. That means not doing it repeatedly; if you're doing something offensive repeatedly it means that you care more about the behavior than your partner. No partner is going to take a back seat to that unless they're dysfunctional (then it takes a different tone).

In the long run IMPO, you're better off not making the offense in the first place. Realistically speaking, you (all you's being hypothetical) know that you're messing up even before you do it. Sometimes it's about testing boundaries and seeing what someone can get away with in the relationship. Especially if you're one of those who does it repeatedly in relationships; you're the one who needs someone to call you on your mess and give more respect. Many appreciate a person who will make you respect them than to accept the behavior and subsequently run over them. That's how Rodney Peete married Holly Robinson; she didn't take his crap and made him get rid of the women BEFORE she would have a meaningful relationship with him. And they're married with 10 years and four kids between them today.

[WorkInProgress]

It's simply an old cliche, not a real principle. Of course there are apologies in love. The closest it comes to being true is that, when you're in love and really compatible, there won't be as many occasions as otherwise for one party to owe an apology to the other or feel owed an apology from the other. But the ability to apologize and the ability to receive apologies graciously are vital in a relationship.

In my bad marriage years ago, there was one time when I apologized for something, my wife scornfully said "You're always apologizing," and I replied, "And you're always refusing to apologize."

[drew70]

Let me be clear, also. When I say it should be "expected" I mean de rigueur as part of conduct when you've done something that wrongs someone else. The point Drew made reminded me that I should draw a division between that and use of "expected" in terms of a presumptuous individual who demands/expects an apology. The latter is not the context in which I meant it.

Drew, could you clarify what was poignant but you didn't buy into? I want to make sure I understand you.Well, as I recall, the phrase "love means never having to say you're sorry," was from the movie, "Love Story," with Ali McGraw and Ryan O'Neal. At least that's where I first heard it. In that context, one might consider an apology as something shared mostly between strangers. You bump into somebody on the bus, you apologize. You track dogshit into a restaurant, you beg forgiveness. But Jennifer's and Oliver's love for each other was so deep and all-encompassing that neither were capable of holding ought against the other. Forgiveness was never a consideration because they were so much in love that neither was capable of offending the other in any way. Their love was the focus of their entire lives, and anything else was secondary. That kind of love precludes apologies. At least that was my understanding of the concept.

I said I don't buy into it, because in the real world love is seldom that simple. We have bad days, we get moody, and we sometimes say or do things that are hurtful to those we love. Hence, apologies are necessary from time to time.

[Redmage]

Can two people in love really get by without ever saying "I'm sorry?"No way. Knowing when and how to apologize is an essential skill if you want to keep a loving relationship going. I know this old saying is trying to say something positive about love, but I never have understood it.

[cloudgazer2k]

there's been times i say "I'm sorry." as i'm waking up with my lady, just in case i forgot something. and even when i hate to do it, when i'm still angry, i still apologize so that things can calm down and rational thought/conversation can take place.

[steph]

I'm with drew. I suppose it's possible if you never see each other, never talk...if you're in such denial that you think you've never said anything stupid or some kind of bloodless robot who never feels anything (we all know some of those, don't we?)
For those of us who live in the real world, there's no getting around it from time to time. Not if you're factoring in anything that's a true relationship.

Learn how to accept an apology gracefully when it's offered and learn to humbly deliver a SINCERE one when it's needed. Mastering that skill will take you farther in life than most of the crap they're teaching in school.
XOXO


I said I don't buy into it, because in the real world love is seldom that simple. We have bad days, we get moody, and we sometimes say or do things that are hurtful to those we love. Hence, apologies are necessary from time to time.

[DLazarus]

Right on target Steph. I couldn't have said it better. :twohugs:

Don

[GirlWhoLikes2Laugh]

I think that just because you love someone it doesn't mean you never have to say you're sorry. I think that saying sorry is very important (for those interested I wrote on a topic that is similar to this myself in this section). I think that saying you're sorry when necessary keeps the relationship healthy and happy.


:grouphug: :bunny:

[Mz Chaos]

I can't imagine never doing anything that I would never have to apologize for. I'm only human. So... that being said... maybe I ought not fall in love again, I'm bound to disappoint someone somewhere along the line.

[Doubledutch]

Well, as I recall, the phrase "love means never having to say you're sorry," was from the movie, "Love Story," with Ali McGraw and Ryan O'Neal. At least that's where I first heard it. In that context, one might consider an apology as something shared mostly between strangers. You bump into somebody on the bus, you apologize. You track dogshit into a restaurant, you beg forgiveness. But Jennifer's and Oliver's love for each other was so deep and all-encompassing that neither were capable of holding ought against the other. Forgiveness was never a consideration because they were so much in love that neither was capable of offending the other in any way. Their love was the focus of their entire lives, and anything else was secondary. That kind of love precludes apologies. At least that was my understanding of the concept.

I said I don't buy into it, because in the real world love is seldom that simple. We have bad days, we get moody, and we sometimes say or do things that are hurtful to those we love. Hence, apologies are necessary from time to time.

Brilliant insight, Drew. Thank you.