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Establish a voluntary 3rd party vetting service

K

Kalba

TMF Novice
Joined
Nov 15, 2001
Messages
50
Points
0
Short version, in the chatroom, there are way too many posers. And while making vetting a mandatory activity isn't the way to go. Those who want to vett themselves and be able to authenticate who they are should have a choice to do so. Please consider the basic idea. One chatroom participant has said the girls have basically done this. If so, how's about doing the same for all of those interested so we don't have to keep playing these stupid games.

Kalba
 
This is an idea that has been suggested a few times over the years.

Sadly there is no way I'm going to try and enforce a 'prove your gender' requirement for use of the chat room. There are a lot of reasons.

This would mean that anyone who wanted to use the room would need to open a voice/video chat with some person before they would be allowed to enter the room.

That means there would NEED to be a person on duty 24/7 to do this.

I can't provide 24/7 moderation coverage to the room for the princely pay of $0 per hour that we are able to offer. So I have a feeling I'll have a hard time getting a pass monitor to be available for al times. So I guess the room has to shut down when I don't have a person there to do the job. Can't let un-vetted people in can we?

This would tend to limit the use of the room very significantly.

Seeing as we have a chat room to allow folks to meet and interact, and pay a good deal for that room every year, closing it for significant periods during a week seems sort of silly to me.

We WANT our room to be used and enjoyed. And not be a pain in the hinder to enter.

We are not the gender police. There is no realistic way to screen people on the web for gender without creating a system that is so limiting to new entries that it makes it pointless. Many users are not very secure even being on the site. They are not comfortable with the fact they have a fetish, and are shy about interacting at all. So to have to not only ask permission, but SHOW yourself to a pass monitor would mean many would never use the room. That's defeating the reason we have a room.

Myriads
 
establishing and knocking down strawmen just avoids the issue

it's not either do nothing or be a dictator. for people want to go through a TMF vetting process, they can verify their gender and be done with it. I guess I don't buy your characterization. So, it's life as usual in the chatroom. men posing as women with no oversight. pathetic.


Kalba
 
Kalba said:
it's not either do nothing or be a dictator. for people want to go through a TMF vetting process, they can verify their gender and be done with it. I guess I don't buy your characterization. So, it's life as usual in the chatroom. men posing as women with no oversight. pathetic.


Kalba
Click to expand...

ive been in the chat and find this to be the case as well. But as Myraids stated that would inquire to much work from moderators who already do a lot and arent paid for it. I mean you dont have to go into the chat, there are billions of sites on the net and almost as many chat rooms, so there is an easy fix to this dont go in it and find a new chat
 
I think just maintaining a list of vetted members is minimal

you aren't trying to police the frauds, just establish the vetted. Myriads is knocking down strawmen. This is doable. There simply isn't the will to do it. Formally anyway. Informally, chat members do it daily. It would just be better to have something more established.
 
So who's going to start going through the tens of thousands of members to see who's lying and who's not?

The TMF is free, paid for by other people out of their own pockets and the chatroom is pretty expensive too. Dealing with losing your erection a couple times as you find out you're cybering with a guy, is unfortunately something you're going to have to deal with while all these awesome things are provided to you free of charge.
 
As A chat moderator its always been my view that people can be who they want in the chatroom.

If people want to be a nine tailed fox I dont mind, if men feel as tho they would like to pretend to be a woman then I dont see a problem there either, for many its a fantasy land to be who you wanna be.

Only way it ever gets to be a problem is if a closeness is built between two members and one turns out not to be who they say and the other becomes upset, but this can happen in all sorts of other ways, age, looks, location, promises.

When it comes to it, the person pretending will no doubt eventually see that they will never be able to move from theyre online identity to theyre real life one if they arnt being themselves online. And if theyre ok with that and wish to remain online only then it will never cause any real problems if people just leave them alone and let them do theyre thing.

To justify checking one person we would have to check them all, and not only is there not the resources to do so, as you say... from me at least, the will isnt there either, This issue doesnt cause a real problem.

If you feel someones faking then you dont need to communicate with them, maybe even go as far as putting them on ignore if you like.

In my mind no one is obliged to prove anything to anyone in the chatroom as long as they are not actively causeing issues for other members, everyone uses it for different reasons, some for fantasy roleplay acting as someone they are not, to fulfill theyre fantasies, I dont see it fair dissallow them to do that.

Ive always had more trouble from those who wish to "out" those who they assume are faking and then pester them and make theyre time in the room as difficult as possible.

In conclusion, "Ignorance is bliss"
 
Kalba said:
So, it's life as usual in the chatroom. men posing as women with no oversight. pathetic.
Click to expand...
That's pretty well the standard on the internet.

AnnieHall said:
Dealing with losing your erection a couple times as you find out you're cybering with a guy, is unfortunately something you're going to have to deal with
Click to expand...

rofl


Jokes aside, I think this is a really interesting idea, I've never heard it brought up before. While I stand by any decision Myriads makes, I'd be interested to hear a bit more from Kalba on specifically what mechanism he would suggest to do this.
 
I can understand caring about the gender of the person you're flirting with. But I think you're not really seeing how big a deal this would end up being.

I think this sounds like a pretty big logistical undertaking, even without going to the extreme that Myriads was suggesting.

Even just creating a database of people known to be the gender they claim, would be a lot of work. I know that I don't want to take dozens of calls from people just to prove they're who they say they are. And I don't really want to ask anyone else to do that.

And then we have to set up some kind of way to access that information. Someone either has to be on deck to answer the question "Is this person really a girl?" or else we have to... what, make it publicly available? Isn't that a little demeaning, having a list of girls who have had to prove their gender?

Also that seems to involve someone giving someone else their phone number, either the chatter or the verifier, and that's a lot of information to give away along with your gender.

And all of it for what exactly? My advice would be 1) don't do anything in the chat room with someone if you would be freaked out by their being a guy instead of a girl, unless you've talked to them. And 2) if they want to do that kind of stuff but won't talk to you, see rule 1.

Or maybe I'm wrong. I'm open to hearing where I misunderstood, or am not seeing something...
 
I wanted to chime in here. Having been a member of this forum for over six years, the whole "gender" thing is something I've had discussions about with many people over the years.

I used to speak to many new girls in the chatroom, until keeping a much lower profile in recent years. I used to be friendly with two forum members, whom I of course will not name, who would pc me every time I started talking to a new member whose profile said female, and these two people would say to me: "Mitch, Susan K (A fictional name of course) is a guy". This would tick me off to no end. While these people might have thought they were being helpful, it didn't do me, or anyone else, any good, if I was trying to get to know someone, and these people pced me frequently, saying all this. Neither of these people had any proof that Susan K was or wasnt a guy, and they would only serve to do two things. One, upset me if I was trying to talk to someone, and two, unfairly smear Susan K, who might well have just been a new girl, trying to talk to and get to know a new guy.

I'm not naive. I'm sure that there are members on here, whose profiles say "Female", who are actually guys, coming on here to get their kicks, and fuck with people's heads. On the other hand, I'm sure there are far more people, who visit TMF, for the purpose of being legitimate. I try not to concern myself with the first kind of person. I completely understand Myriads and Jeff's positions, about neither them, nor the forum, having the resources to prove who and who isn't definitively a guy or girl. My advice to you would be this: Read profiles, take TMF for what it is, a place for people with the common interest of tickling to meet and discuss, and, if you befriend someone for a while, at that point, ask them to do webcam, send you a picture, or pictures, or call you on the phone. It would be extremely unwise, and would not make you many or any friends, if you go around saying to every girl you talk to "Hi, even though you dont know me, I want you to get on cam, or call me, so I can prove you're a girl". Use discretion. My feeling is, that anyone who is legitimate, will not mind.

I hope this helps.

Mitch
 
Kalba said:
Short version, in the chatroom, there are way too many posers. And while making vetting a mandatory activity isn't the way to go. Those who want to vett themselves and be able to authenticate who they are should have a choice to do so. Please consider the basic idea. One chatroom participant has said the girls have basically done this. If so, how's about doing the same for all of those interested so we don't have to keep playing these stupid games.

Kalba
Click to expand...

You could do all this yourself. I mean, if one wants to wank it to the real thing. No need for the whole entire chatroom and those who enter and leave on whim to be having to do that.

I'm really a man, and I've gotten all sorts of pussy.
 
CrystalLight said:
You could do all this yourself. I mean, if one wants to wank it to the real thing. No need for the whole entire chatroom and those who enter and leave on whim to be having to do that.

I'm really a man, and I've gotten all sorts of pussy.
Click to expand...

Yes, now take my picture out of your sig!



Srsly, This is why I don't use it. But you pretty much just have to take someone's word for it. I think it's a little silly for everyone to have to verify.
 
I guess to start with I don't buy the premise that it

requires either constant surveillance or some long telephone book research. You simply establish a 3rd party (mod, vetted member, whatever) who can verify someone who requests to be vetted, voluntarily and maintain a list of TMF members who have made the request and gone through the vetting process. If someone isn't vetted, that's fine. It remains up to the chatroom participant if they want to risk it or not. But at least it gives a way for good faith participants to establish themselves and remove all doubt. As I said above though, doesn't sound like there is the will, though I believe there is a way.
 
Well to start with, I don't cyber as such, not what I'm into.

AnnieHall said:
So who's going to start going through the tens of thousands of members to see who's lying and who's not?

The TMF is free, paid for by other people out of their own pockets and the chatroom is pretty expensive too. Dealing with losing your erection a couple times as you find out you're cybering with a guy, is unfortunately something you're going to have to deal with while all these awesome things are provided to you free of charge.
Click to expand...

Second, as I've said, don't buy the going through the telephone book. We're talking about maintaining a list of folks who voluntarily get vetted, aren't but a small # of folks from TMF's overall membership who frequent the chatroom anyway. Should be pretty easy to seperate the posers from the real deal if we had the collective will to do it. YMMV.

Kalba.
 
Kalba said:
requires either constant surveillance or some long telephone book research. You simply establish a 3rd party (mod, vetted member, whatever) who can verify someone who requests to be vetted, voluntarily and maintain a list of TMF members who have made the request and gone through the vetting process. If someone isn't vetted, that's fine. It remains up to the chatroom participant if they want to risk it or not. But at least it gives a way for good faith participants to establish themselves and remove all doubt. As I said above though, doesn't sound like there is the will, though I believe there is a way.
Click to expand...

There may be a way, no one said there wasn't. This is a free site, That's something that is most likely going to require more money out of someone's pockets. If you are more than willing to pay then by all means I suggest you keep pushing, However I think the whole thing is a little silly. Why is it that big of a deal?
 
Kalba said:
requires either constant surveillance or some long telephone book research. You simply establish a 3rd party (mod, vetted member, whatever) who can verify someone who requests to be vetted, voluntarily and maintain a list of TMF members who have made the request and gone through the vetting process. If someone isn't vetted, that's fine. It remains up to the chatroom participant if they want to risk it or not. But at least it gives a way for good faith participants to establish themselves and remove all doubt. As I said above though, doesn't sound like there is the will, though I believe there is a way.
Click to expand...

What's your angle? What are you exactly trying to achieve with the outcome of this?
 
I've been going to the chatroom for a couple years now, and I think that over time, you get a sense of who's legit and who is not.

If it's someone who does TMF Radio or has been to gatherings (Annie, Crystal, Bright), they're obviously who they claim to be.

If it's someone who has been in contact with other chatters who vouch for them, that's a good sign too.

Anyone else, its an "at your own risk" situation.

---

There would be a way to do what you're asking, kalba, but in my opinion, it'd be no fun whatsoever.

Would I need to be vetted, just to prove I am who I say I am? How many of us go about under a nickname? Does that mean we are fraudulent?

Seems to be more trouble than its worth, to me.
 
Ok, so unless this designated "mod" who's job it is to vouch for people has met the person that wants to be vetted (someone who would only care about being vetted if no one had any idea who they were), how would they know they aren't lying?

If I hadn't been to 3 NESTs, met 100 or so people from here, did TMF Radio shows, didn't post my picture, and wanted to be vetted, I could say I was a dude, but how would I prove it?

This would require either 1. a phone call or 2. webcam.

How else would one be vetted?
 
I guess I don't buy either a requirement or a preference for

a phone call and a webcam. I think there are many ways to vett or verify someone's gender, which seems to be the main consideration, all of which have the inherent risk of being bypassed. A poser could get a friend of the opposite gender to pick up the phone and slip in front of a webcam. I would think starting with a list of people we know and can verify and build from there. If the list is voluntary then it's up to the person to decide if they want to go through the vetting process. You don't mandate anything. And it remains the right of any chatroom goer to take whatever risks they are taking now. I just don't see the down side.

Kalba
 
I don't use the chatroom here, not because of the whole dude/chick issue, but I just don't have the time.

Sure, I don't see the harm in the vetting process, but:
1. Who is going to oversee it? As stated in this thread, this is a free forum, folks give up their time voluntarily. If the forum concensus demands the institution of this system, then I'm sure some folks here will be happy to lend their time; however if even Jeff does not support the system, who is going to do it?

2. What really is the point of the vetting process? Sure, cybering with a guy who claims to be a girl is an awful thing. But that's part and parcel of internet life. Not to say it is acceptable, but I fail to see why the TMF has a special obligation, on top and above other adult websites, to institute such a system.
 
Ok, so let say we start this list on a voluntary basis. Everytime someone volunteers we have to ask around if anyone knows for sure if they are who they say they are.

If I'm a dude, pretending to be a girl and I want to to be vetted as a chick, all I have to do is volunteer for the list, then make another account to act as the person vetting for me.

Therefore, the list is useless.

Any other ideas?
 
Its really not hard for someone to pose as male or female, even if they are proven to be the other. If i was really desperate to prove i was a woman, i could get a random friend to supply pertinent info

Chat is fine the way it is, Get ID and proof of billing address if you want proof they are female or not
 
I've stated my reasons and provided my input.

Dr. Vollin said:
Several people have made good points as to why this isn't really workable, or needed. Since you seem determined to keep arguing for it (and, frankly, your reasons for keeping it up escape me):

A) Why don't you list these "many ways to vett or verify someone's gender" that don't require a phone call or webcam?

B) Since you admit that they can all be bypassed, then why should any of them be implemented? If people can still misrepresent their identities to the "vetter", it's all an exercise in pointlessness.

I'm not sure why you insist on this point after people have presented good reasons it wouldn't work out. I usually don't toss out the word "trolling", but I'm starting to wonder if that's what we have here.
Click to expand...

And I think it's a pretty sad day when we can't have a conversation without namecalling and labeling. Sure, they have offered reason. And I disagree. Agree to disagree. You can do that without ad hominems. As I said earlier. There are ways to do it (btw, didn't all would be by passed, just that this risk is inherent,show me a vetting system that isn't, ask Tom Daschle), just not the will. So, we continue to do nothing. ok.

Kalba
 
That assumes just because you volunteer you will be accepted as a vetter.

AnnieHall said:
Ok, so let say we start this list on a voluntary basis. Everytime someone volunteers we have to ask around if anyone knows for sure if they are who they say they are.

If I'm a dude, pretending to be a girl and I want to to be vetted as a chick, all I have to do is volunteer for the list, then make another account to act as the person vetting for me.

Therefore, the list is useless.

Any other ideas?
Click to expand...

so reasoning from a false premise is just knocking down another strawman. Obviously people vetting would have to be credible/vetted themselves. And as so many have pointed out, most established people are well known. So, a list isn't useless, only a strawman list that noone would use is useless. But one does have the feeling that's where we are ending up, aren't we.

Think about it, we switch to registered members only to improve the quality of the chatroom experience, but then to nothing to enforce the registration/chatroom participation process. Sort of makes the whole exercise an experience of futility, doesn't it.

Kalba
 
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