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Tarzan
05-17-2004, 12:19 AM
Not to take away from the mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners at the hands of some of their American captors, it seems that many, especially in Congress, have a short memory at what had transpired in the past at that prison.

From OpinionJournal.com (http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/dhenninger/)

Want a Different
Abu Ghraib Story?
Try This One
Saddam had their hands cut off. America gave them new ones.

BY DANIEL HENNINGER
Friday, May 14, 2004 12:01 a.m. EDT

By now, some Americans may feel the need for respite from the images of Abu Ghraib and the five hooded barbarians standing behind Nick Berg. This week's column will try to provide some measure of respite.

It is the story of Americans, in and out of the U.S. government, who moved mountains to help seven horribly maimed Iraqi men. It is not always pleasant reading, but there are rewards to staying with it, especially now.

Quite obviously it has been decided, as the handling of the Abu Ghraib story makes plain, that when America stumbles, we are going to have our faces rubbed in it. And rubbed in it and rubbed in it. As far as I can make out, the purpose of this two weeks of media humiliation is that we--the president, all of us--are being asked to morally prostrate ourselves before the rest of the world. Some may choose to do so, but this story should make a few Americans want to simply stand up straight again.

As perfect justice, the story in fact begins in Abu Ghraib prison, in 1995. With Iraq's economy in a tailspin, Saddam arrested nine Iraqi businessmen to scapegoat them as dollar traders. They got a 30-minute "trial," and were sentenced, after a year's imprisonment, to have their right hands surgically cut off at Abu Ghraib prison.

The amputations were performed, over two days, by a Baghdad anesthesiologist, a surgeon and medical staff. We know this because Saddam had a videotape made of each procedure. He had the hands brought to him in formalin and then returned to Abu Ghraib. Oh, one more thing: The surgeon carved an X of shame into the forehead of each man. And the authorities charged the men $50.

Last year, after we liberated Iraq, a veteran TV news producer named Don North--who has worked for major U.S. broadcasters--was in Baghdad with the U.S. to restore TV service. Iraqi contacts there brought him a tape of the men's amputations. Mr. North says dismemberment was common in Saddam's Iraq and that if one walks down a crowded Baghdad street one may see a half-dozen people missing an ear, eye, limb or tongue. He decided to seek out the men whose stubbed arms represented the civilized world's lowest act--the perversion of medicine.
He found seven. Mr. North determined to make a documentary of their story and get medical help for them. How he found that help, if one may still use this phrase, is an all-American story.

An oil engineer from Houston, named Roger Brown, overheard Mr. North's tale in a Baghdad café. He suggested Don North get in touch with a famed Houston TV newsman named Marvin Zindler. Mr. Zindler put him in touch with Dr. Joe Agris, a Houston reconstructive surgeon, who has worked in postwar Vietnam and Nicaragua repairing children.

Mr. North sent Dr. Agris a copy of the videotape of the surgical atrocities, and Dr. Agris said: Send me the men; I will fix them.

But flying seven Iraqi men out of Baghdad is easier said than done. In this case, prodded by Don North and government friends, the famous U.S. bureaucracy gave itself a day off. Paul Bremer wrote a memo authorizing their departure. Paul Wolfowitz told the Air Force it could fly them to Frankfurt. Homeland Security waived visa requirements.

Continental Airlines donated passage to Houston. There, Dr. Agris enlisted a fellow surgeon, Fred Kestler, to assist. The Methodist Hospital donated facilities, and the men arrived in Houston in early April.

Dr. Agris saw that the Abu Ghraib "surgeries" were a botch. They'd cut through the joining of the wrist's carpal bones, "like carving a Turkey leg." Saddam's doctors did nothing to repair the nerve endings, which left the men with constant real and "phantom" pain. Drs. Agris and Kestler had two preliminary tasks: Repair the nerves, and, alas, take another inch off the men's lower arms, to leave a smooth surface for attaching their new prosthetic "hands." They worked for two days operating on the seven men, who then took a week to recover before receiving their new hands.

Those devices were donated by the German-American prosthetic company Otto Bock, at a cost of $50,000 each. They are state-of-the-art electronic hands, with fingers, which respond to trained muscular movements. The rehabilitation and training is being donated by two other Houston companies, TIRR and Dynamic Orthotics. The Iraqi men are in Houston now, spending five hours a day learning to use their new right hands. And oh yes, the brands on their heads were removed.

Don North completed his documentary on what happened to these men in Iraq. I watched "Remembering Saddam" this week. Several of the men insisted on seeing Saddam's home video of the atrocity, and so it's in the film--a bizarre, almost dainty image of forceps, scalpel, surgical gloves and green operating-room garments. Nothing like it since Dr. Mengele. Watching his hand come off, Baasim Al Fadhly says: "Look at this doctor, who considers his career noble and swears to God to be a noble person. Let everyone see this film."

This crime deserves condemnation from international medical societies, such as the U.N.'s World Health Organization, or the Red Cross. And Don North's film indeed should be seen--but may not be. After two months of trying, no U.S. broadcast or cable network will take it. This is incredible. TV can run Abu Ghraib photos 24/7 but can't find 55 minutes for Saddam's crimes against humanity?
On May 23, the American Foreign Policy Council will bring the restored men to Washington. They will visit maimed GIs at Walter Reed Army Hospital. It wouldn't be surprising if they said something positive about the U.S. soldiers who have not been on television the past two weeks.

Then Don North and Joe Agris will fly with the men back to Iraq, to survey the rest of Saddam's dismembered population. "The practice of prosthetics is very archaic," Mr. North says,"for a country where this is such an affliction." Dr. Agris hopes to survey the hospitals and bring in some modern equipment and supplies. "If they let me, I'll do some of the kids," he says. "Let's show the good side of what we can do."

Sure. Why not?

milagros317
05-17-2004, 12:33 AM
Thanks for posting this, Tarzan. It may help put things in perspective for some. :D

Cosmo_ac
05-17-2004, 01:22 AM
I'll be honest. I've tried to follow this story pretty close over the last couple of weeks. Made my stomach sick more then a few times. Hell, i'm still queasy. One of the things i saw several times though, that really bugged me, was the "Oh, well, i know we did this, but hey, look at what Saddam did!" responses on coments i've seen from people and a few reporters. Was what Saddam did worse? Hell yes, i can't argue that it wasn't. However, i think a lot of people are missing the main points here. This isn't a "America wins most humain torturer award for a Country of the year award" Contest. It's almost as if people are trying to say, ok, yeah a "few" soldiers did bad, but thats ok, because Saddam did worse. That is a totally wrong mentallity to have here. First off, many people are still under the illusion that it was only a few "prank photo's". Let me enlighten you to some of these photo's, and many of the accusations are, not just from the prisoners, but guards too.

1. placing prisoners in a 3 foot by 3 foot cell for several days, with no washroom, no food, no clothes, possibly hooded (i can't remember), no air circulation, and because they were forced to stand, no sleep.

2. being forced to preform sexual acts on each other. What does that mean? not just laying on top of another guy, but being forced to suck on his penis. Add into the equation, that in there Religion, homosexuality is forbidden, and most families belong to a Clan. IF a Clan saw those pictures, and they knew who the person was, they would more then likely be killed, and the family would be destroyed. These prisoners were threatened with these pictures to be exposed, and several families (ie the family of the man bound naked to a bed with panties on his face) were shown and threatened with these pics.

3. Rape. yes, rape. I'd cut you a snippet of one of my web pages i found, but since i'd have to play around with too many things on a computer that is way too messed up, i'm going to Peraphrase. "You knew what they were doing. They took the 17 year old boy into the office, then closed all the drapes. You could hear him screaming, while the female officer took pictures." There are several allegations of prisoners being raped, mainly by gaurds the soldiers brought in, and apparently most of them minors. We'll learn more about those as time goes on.

4. Detainies which were named as "ghost detainines" because whenever the Red Cross would come over, they would be shipped around so the Red Cross wouldn't see them. Some of these detainies are believed to have came from Afganistan, and here's where the big thing is.


This is not just an isolated event. And thats the big thing that's going on now, and why all the attention. the Red Cross itself has said so. ALso, there are way too many things here. First, we have pretty much stupid as rocks reserves, doing torture techniques specifically designed for Arabs. They shouldn't know this stuff. Second, the guards themselves claim this came from MI. Third, this all started after General Miller, the general in charge of Guatamo bay in Cuba, came to visit. Forth, these interigation techniques are simmiliar to the ones drawn up by the Pentagon for Guatamo bay prisnoners, except these were a lot more intense, which means somebody was giving directions, but not holding unto the reins. fifth, there is a picture showing 8 people around two naked prisoners, and only one if i remember right, is MP. So, what does that say?

The Pentagon itself, with lawyers and all, have written up several "High pressure" methods of interigating Iraqi detainines. Detainines, as in people they happen to grab on the street, which the red Cross says about 70-90% of the people are. These methods violate the Genova rights bill, but because it's America, it's suddenly ok?

You see,this isn't just about what happened at the prison. Those photos are a symble of how far off the beaton path America has gone. Think about it. American citisens, even if they are suspected of being a terrorist, are placed in prison, without the right to even a defence, all rights are stripped, and if the people in charge want, they can torture them all they want for as long as they want. America is Starting wars with false justifcations. SO far, no WMD which was the big thing for the war in the first place.

America is a country which has grown to become the symble of freedom, and rightiousness. a place thats supposed to be looked up to and admired by all, but, over the last three years, it's been chipped away, like an apple rotting from the inside out. If you take a good look at America's history, it's not surprising really. However, unless America smartens up, and starts back on the path, it's going to destroy itself.

So, if you want to say "Hey, what we did was bad, but were still better then Saddem." I'll say, sure, i can't argue that. But In ten years from now, if things keep going like this, will i be able to say the same thing?

ticklebutton
05-17-2004, 04:36 AM
Originally posted by Tarzan
...Last year a veteran TV news producer named Don North was in Baghdad.
Iraqi contacts there brought him a tape of amputations inflicted on nine Iraqui men sentenced to lose their hands.
Don North got in touch with famed Houston TV newsman named Marvin Zindler.

Marvin Zindler put him in touch with Dr. Joe Agris, a Houston reconstructive surgeon, who has worked in postwar Vietnam and Nicaragua repairing children.

Dr. Agris said:
Send me the men; I will fix them.

Continental Airlines donated passage to Houston.

The Methodist Hospital donated the facilities for the surgery.

The (prosthetic)devices were donated by the German-American prosthetic company Otto Bock, at a cost of $50,000 each.

Dr. Joe Agris will fly with the men back to Iraq, to survey the rest of Saddam's dismembered population.

Dr. Agris hopes to survey the hospitals and bring in some modern equipment and supplies.

"If they let me, I'll do some of the kids," he says. "Let's show the good side of what we can do."...

Dr. Joe Agris is the hero of this story; he has a long history of reconstructing the damage done by the wars in Vietnam, Nicaragua, etc.

Keep up the good work, Doc!

I'm pleased with that producer & others who set into motion the chain of events which found him. I'm also delighted to hear of the organizations who donated, as well.

See? There are people in this world who do good for its own sake, not just power or money.

Even though the columnist for the Wall Street Journal had a narrow political agenda for posting the story about this -

The real message came through!

Button :bubble:

august spies
05-17-2004, 12:53 PM
Well at least most of saddams crimes werent supported by the US.... O thats right, they were!

The us government intervention and torture of the iraqi people has nothing to do with their sad feeling for them or their great humanitarianism. Just look at history

BOFH666
05-17-2004, 07:45 PM
Ummm, forgive me for being a cynic but I don't see what relevance this has to do with Abu Ghraib in the context of the military abuses that went on there? Reading this article this was a member of the public (albeit a well-connected one) getting together with several other members of the public to perform a truly selfless act, and for that I applaud them. But let's be honest here, the US Government didn't do jack, someone handed it a PR 'win' on a plate and they helped out. If this was a true "different Abu Ghraib story" it would have been the American government initiating the process . Again, don't get me wrong it's wonderful to know there are people out there that care enough to do this, but I'm not in the least surprised that no TV station ran it (well, okay, I'm surprised FOX didn't pick it up) as there's no new information here and certainly after the pictures (and the full details we're only just starting to learn) came out it would have been seen as a blatant ploy to paint the government in a good light for an action they deserve little credit for.

From what we've seen thus far, and the confirmation that torture is being used in Guantanamo bay at the very least should be cause for concern, I fail to understand how anyone can defend the US in this regard. And before anyone says it, let me make this clear, I have to include my own country in this disgrace. The UK backed America right down the line and, like it or not, we're guilty by association and that's before the investigations into allegations of abuse made against our own troops (no, not the Mirror photographs, the Red Cross report and other sources) are completed.

And I have to admit, I have one big problem with the US pointing to Saddam torturing and killing innocents, namely that it is also accepted practice in the US. This is a country with the death penalty in, what, 38 states? The death penalty in a system that does not apply it fairly and equally to all, a system that is acknowledged as flawed for a variety of reasons and a system that has itself deemed the Death Penalty to be in violation of the Fifth Amendment (though I do not know if that decision was later overturned). Most importantly, it's a system that has made mistakes, with over a hundred people having their sentences overturned. So where's the torture? I am not referring to physical torture but mental. Imagine for a moment you are one of those innocent people and spend months or, more likely, years on death row waiting to be executed. What would that do to your mind I wonder if you KNEW yourself to be innocent and unable to do anything about it?

And as august spies said, the sad truth is the US backed Saddam despite his crimes until he was no longer useful to them. I'm sorry, but while I do not for a moment think this is representative of America's people, America as an international power should not be throwing stones within its glass house.