Russian President Putin told us Iraq was going to atttack us

[buggs]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,123051,00.html

Putin: We Told U.S. Saddam Was Planning Attacks
Friday, June 18, 2004

ASTANA, Kazakhstan — Russia gave the Bush administration intelligence after the September 11 attacks that suggested Saddam Hussein's regime in Iraq was preparing attacks in the United States, President Vladimir Putin (search) said Friday.

Putin said he couldn't comment on how critical the Russians' information was in the U.S. decision to invade Iraq.

In Washington, a U.S. official said Putin's information did not add to what the United States already knew about Saddam's intentions.

The official, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the information, said the Russian tip did not specify a time or a place where an attack might take place.

The Bush administration in part justified the invasion of Iraq by saying Saddam had links to terror groups, including Al Qaeda (search). The U.S. commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks said this week there was no evidence of any collaboration between Iraq and Usama bin Laden's terror network.

Putin said Russia didn't have any information that Saddam's regime was actually behind any terrorist acts.

"After Sept. 11, 2001, and before the start of the military operation in Iraq, the Russian special services, the intelligence service, received information that officials from Saddam's regime were preparing terrorist attacks in the United States and outside it against the U.S. military and other interests," Putin said.

[buggs]

This post was not meant to start a flame war. This is just an informational to let people know what is out there.

[Jimblast]

So this comes out and:

Clinton felt Saddam needed to be stopped and most likely had WMD's...

Kerry felt the same way....then changed his mind 3 or 4 times as he's prone to do....

A CIA Operative in October of '01 warned Bush of the same thing....

England was adamant that he had WMD's....

But Bush lied to the American people? It's time the antibush and antiamerican countries quit this propaganda that Bush 'lied' to the American people. It seems a lot of people who are using hindsight now forget about the intelligence...especially Britain's bungling (but then again....did they really bungle? Was the British intel really bad?). Basically, with the info Bush had, he did the right thing.

[db88]

If he was receiving "confusing" or contradicting info, he shouldn't have pushed so hard, so consistently, and with such certainty. He did so because the administration was already going to invade Iraq; 911 was the catalyst and selling point- it provided the perfect opportunity to "play on the collective emotions and shock of the public", blow the "worldwide terrorist threat" waaayyy out of proportion, and to win the support of most americans, even though no connection has been proven to exist between 911 and Iraq. If you keep repeating the same lies over and over, and the headlines all scream the same thing- "911 IRAQ CONNECTION!!" or whatever, for months and months and then all that bullshit is retracted piece by tiny piece (little paragraph on page 3), people tend to support and believe in what they've been blasted with over such a long period of time.
sorry if im not making sense, its late and im buzzed- don't know exacty where I'm going with this so i'll stop now. Anyway, yeah, I think Bush did "Lie" to the public. I think he lied to a lot of people about a lot of things.
Because that is what liars do. And he has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, concerning several issues, not just Iraq, that he is definitely a chronic liar.

db


oh yeah, i'll try to find an article I read where Putin warns the US not to bring about any more regime changes in the middle east. Russia threatened the US because of Iraq- supposedly- i'll have to find the source, but i'd be interested to know Putin's real position on all this.

[Shem the Penman]

On March 20, 2003, a few days after Mr. Bush's War started, Putin was interviewed on Russian TV and had this to say:

This military action cannot be justified by anything: neither by the accusations that Iraq supports international terrorism - we have never had and we do not have information to support this...

Furthermore, at the moment the operation started, Iraq did not represent any danger either to neighbouring states nor to other countries and regions of the world ...

http://www.cdi.org/russia/249-2.cfm

So, was Putin lying then, or is he lying now?

Six months ago, Putin said, "There were no international terrorists under Hussein" (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A12380-2003Dec18&notFound=true).

So, was Putin lying then, or is he lying now?

But it's really amusing watching right-wingers cling to the unsupported word of an ex-KGB communist in an effort to justify their beloved war.

[venray]

Here is one of the best sources of info I have found on the whole issue of Iraq and why we went and perhaps should not have. Most of the info here will back up the view that we over-reacted initially,
though there is info that would show reason for alarm.

http://www.ceip.org/files/projects/npp/resources/iraqintell/home.htm


Lot's to read here folks. Read it all, dont just pick out tidbits to back your current view....you may all be enlightened....


Ray

[MrMacphisto]

Guys... this is freakin' Russia we're talking about. I trust them about as much as I did back when they were Communist. In other words, I'd sooner believe the French on an issue like this. You gotta remember; Russia was one of the main countries hooked up with that oil-for-food program. The governmental corruption in Russia makes Bush look like Mr. Clean. Just take a look at the Chechnya situation or the strange connection that is developing between Moldova and Russia. Or how about all those weapons that Russia has been selling to the highest bidders? I guess if Fox is correct about anything, they definitely found a source that is connected to selling weapons of mass destruction. The problem is... can you trust the same source for accurate and unbiased info on a topic as political as Iraq? It kind of makes you wonder if Putin and Dubya have some kind of agreement developing. Before the Iraq issue, they were awfully friendly....

[maniactickler]

Originally posted by MrMacphisto
Guys... this is freakin' Russia we're talking about. I trust them about as much as I did back when they were Communist. In other words, I'd sooner believe the French on an issue like this. You gotta remember; Russia was one of the main countries hooked up with that oil-for-food program. The governmental corruption in Russia makes Bush look like Mr. Clean. Just take a look at the Chechnya situation or the strange connection that is developing between Moldova and Russia. Or how about all those weapons that Russia has been selling to the highest bidders? I guess if Fox is correct about anything, they definitely found a source that is connected to selling weapons of mass destruction. The problem is... can you trust the same source for accurate and unbiased info on a topic as political as Iraq? It kind of makes you wonder if Putin and Dubya have some kind of agreement developing. Before the Iraq issue, they were awfully friendly....

Normally i wouldnt believe the russians, but they almost always side with the liberals. so it wouldnt make sense for them to say something to make the republicans look good.

[areenactor]

and what was said by another, in another thread, towit;
there were wmd in iraq! we KNOW they were all shipped out to syria, jordon, and even iran on trucks.

even the u.n, france, germany, russia all agreed that iraq had wmd's, they just didn't feel they were threatened enough to do anything about it.

now it seems we are to forget all of this, and believe that the stuff never was there, that all the worlds intel. agencies were wrong, and that america, or bush, is all alone, lied, and made a war all by ourself. what has happened to your memories people? you would seem to forget about all the allies that sent in troops with us!
we were never alone in this, and we were right about the wmd's.

now all of that is behind us, the war is just about over in iraq. they are going to have thier country back, and hopefully not allow any more terrorist traing camps to be run in northern iraq. (yeah that's something else you folks forgot about huh?) i am sick of this war though, it's gone from a military operation, to a politicaly run cluster-fuck. the minute the politicians started to run the military operation there, is when we started to lose troops. our military can stop this bull shit there, but the politicians won't allow it.

steve

[Shem the Penman]

Originally posted by buggs
You said this:



Okay. So I am confused. How is it that Vladamir Putin, the president of Russia makes a statement saying:



Okay so how is this, in your words "the unsupported word of an ex-KGB communist"? This is the presiding President of Russia. So how is it the unsupported word of an ex KGB communist? He may have been KGB, but now he is the President of Russia. There is nothing unsupported about it. He is saying he told the Bush administration that? This is what I don't understand about Liberals. If they see a quote from some silly reporter in Omaha Nebraska, it is the Gods honest truth, but the President of Russia says something and it is an unsuported word? Hell Micheal Moore makes up shit in his movies, and it has been verified by people who worked on the thing and liberals take it as fact. Even after word comes out that he made it up. But someone says anything to support Bush's side and it is always unsupported, or un researched. Why?

Hey, way to ignore the quotes I dug up pointing out that Putin said the exact opposite last year: that Iraq was no threat to anyone and was not harboring terrorists. And way to drag in a whole bunch of completely irrelevant straw men.

It's unsupported because we have no evidence this is true other than that Putin says so, and -- for the third time -- what he says now directly contradicts what he has been saying up until now.

Incidentally, did you hear that the State Department is saying they never heard any of this before?

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20040618-042238-4504r.htm

[Shem the Penman]

Who cares what he is saying now contradicts what he said then. The fact is that this is what he is saying now.

Damn, you're right. Can't possibly argue with logic like that.

[Shem the Penman]

Why not? The leaders of Great Britain, Spain, Italy, and Australia all supported the war despite majorities in their own countries being opposed. And Putin is not exactly known for being all that interested in democracy in the first place.

As for why he'd lie, well:

"It's apparent that Russians and President Putin are interested in a second term for Bush," said Liliya Shevtsova of the Carnegie Moscow Center. "We've always had good relations with Republicans. We dislike Democrats, because Democrats always care about democracy in Russia."

Some analysts say the controversy over Bush's policies in the Middle East is distracting Europe from Putin's increasing authoritarianism and human rights abuses in Chechnya.

"Once [presumed Democratic presidential nominee John] Kerry comes to power, the U.S. and Europe will most likely engage in a new honeymoon … and it means they may jointly turn their attention back to Russia," Belkovsky said. "Thus the Kremlin is interested in seeing the Republicans cling to power, despite all the differences on many issues between Putin and Bush."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-putin19jun19,1,2269995.story?coll=la-headlines-world

Sure, it's possible Putin is telling the truth. But the fact that he has changed his story -- and changed it so radically -- means that it'd take more than just his word for me to believe him now.

[Shem the Penman]

Originally posted by buggs
There is always some conspiracy when it is news that afirms what a Republican did. If it is a Democratic president why it is taken at face value. if it is a Republican President, why then there is some vast right wing conspiracy. It can't be the truth. Nope. gotta be something else.

Yep, it'd sure make the world so much easier if we just swallowed whatever politicians said without questioning it.