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View Full Version : Analysis of Elections of 1992 and 2004, and recent presidential policies


Mitchell
07-07-2004, 12:10 PM
When examining the climate of our nation in the summer of 2004, it strikes me that the climate in our country today, with the election between George W Bush and John Kerry, is quite similar to that of the election in 1992 between George HW Bush, and Bill Clinton.
In 1992, our nation was recovering from a horrible recession. Plagued by high (8%) unemplyoment, record deficits, stagnant wages and hiring, and general malaise, the country knew and decided that after this terrible economic condition, and record deficit, that it was time for change. This being said, from the numbers, in the fall of 1992, George HW Bush may have been a victim of having the presidential election happen at the wrong time. During his term, the "recession" lasted 9 months, but we went through an 18 month period of stagnancy, where jobs were not there, and the economy was weak, and Bill Clinton took advantage, ousting Bush 41 by getting only 43% of the vote. Of course, as we all know, Ross Perot was a major factor in the 92 election, with his 19% of the vote, which may well have and probably did cost Bush 41 the election. In reality, after the election that year, there was a report that the economy in the 4th quarter of 1992 grew significantly, which indicated that if this election had been held three or six months, later, and Ross Perot had not been involved, Bush 41 probably would have won re election. Alas, it was not to be.
In 2004, the country finds itself in a similar circumstance. Bill Clinton left office on January 20, 2001 having turned a 4 trillion dollar deficit into the greatest surplus in history through economic growth, creating 22 million jobs in his terms, record stock market levels, and a strong vibrant economy. Now in 2004, George W Bush has succeeded in turning those numbers into the greatest deficit in our country's history due to tax cuts that most benefit the wealthy, an out of control cost war, a horrid recession, and stagnant recovery. 3 million jobs were lost at the height of Bush 43's term, a number that the Republicans would like us to believe will all go away by election day, 2004. In reality, there have been weaker than expected job reports in the last month, and the 3 million jobs will not be recovered by election day, 2004. The easy question for most Americans in an election is are they better off 4 years ago than they were at the last election. In 1992, the answer for most was no, so Bush 41 lost. In 1996, the answer for most was yes, so Clinton won a second term. The 2000 election was an enigma, and had more to do with Gore running a terrible campaign, and the Surpreme Court decision, than any logical force that decides elections. Yes, the economy in 2000 may have been starting to turn for the worst, but not enough, based on past history, to warrant removing the Democrats from office.
While the economy may be "improving" according to George W Bush, few Americans are actually better off today than they were on January 20,2001 when he took office. The economy may be "recovering", but it will be interesting to see whether or not the "recovery" is enough for him by election day. On January 20, 2001, the nations unemployment rate was 4.2 %, and now it is 5.6%. This combined with the record deficit due to the war, and George W Bush's negative image around the world, and the negative image he created for our country, should hopefully be enough to derail his re election in November.
A very important factor in all this will be the kind of campaign John Kerry runs. He needs to hammer away at Bush's poor record on jobs, I believe his health care platform is a good one. Where Kerry might get into trouble is on the war issue, a main one that we know he voted for. I have a notion of how he may attack the war issue, but do not want to post it here due to the controversial nature of what he might say. George W Bush has a lot to be attacked on, and if Kerry runs the right kind of campaign, he can win this election.
One final point in all this. There has been criticism of John Edwards for being too "inexperienced" and concern over how Edwards would take over a top spot if heaven forbid anything ever happened to John Kerry. My rebuttal is this. Besides being the son of an ex president, and governor of Texas, what qualifications did George W Bush really have for president? It isnt so much experience, although John Kerry has much experience in the senate, but what you do with that experience, once in office. In 1992, the country elected a 46 year old little known southern governor with no experience, and he turned out to be a great diplomat, and a fine two term president. I do agree with the Democrats that Edwards probably needs seasoning before becoming president. Being VP will get him that seasoning. John Kerry is ready to be president now, with 20 years experience in the Senate, he and John Edwards care about the middle and lower classes in a way that Mr George W Bush cannot relate to, and, if they get their message out, the country will see that they are the right choice to replace Bush. It was a courageous move for John Kerry to choose John Edwards, a man of conviction, and passion, and counage, and character, who has fought for the rights of the underprivliged in his law career. It is apparent that Kerry knows Edwards will be a great asset in his administration, and, if they are elected, will work side by side, complimenting each other's strengths and weaknesses, to put the country back on track after the four years of economic slumber under George W Bush.

Mitch

venray
07-07-2004, 12:36 PM
Good thread Mitch.

Now tell me..how many (# or % ) of the jobs lost during 43's term were lost due to the destruction of the world trade center and how long do we give the administration to fully recover from that catastrophe? 1 year? 3 years?

How many of those lost jobs were related to the airline industry or tourist industry or any other that were directly and indirectly
affected by 9-11 and how much have these industries recovered thus far?

What direction is the recovery going and which way will it go if we once again change horses in mid stream?

Just a few questions to ask before November.

Ray

Mitchell
07-07-2004, 01:45 PM
Ray, in answer to your questions.

9-11 was definitely a determining factor in the jobs loss, but, the reality is, that three years after 9-11, this country should be in better shape with jobs than it is.

Second, yes, the airline industry suffered greatly from 9-11. I know a man whose business was distributing films for airlines, and his business suffered greatly after 9-11, and to this point, has supposedly never fully recovered.

As for the changing direction in midstream. I disagree with you on this. In previous elections, including in 1992, the country has suffered from either recession or anemic recovery, and has changed direction in midstream, so this is a pattern that has worked before. I dont know how much the economic recovery in the mid 90s had to do with Clinton, or just that the recession and slow recovery had run it s course. I feel that when something is not working, change is needed. It has happened in other elections, and in my view, should happen now. Changing course in midstream, that is an important question, yes. In my view, however, we are on a "course" that has not really worked for many citizens of our country who are now suffering due to the serious unemployment, and poor economic conditions in our nation today.

Mitch

venray
07-07-2004, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by Mitchell
Ray, in answer to your questions.

9-11 was definitely a determining factor in the jobs loss, but, the reality is, that three years after 9-11, this country should be in better shape with jobs than it is.


Who should decide what shape we should be in after a catastrophe like no other? Who is to say where we would have been now had someone else been in office?



[i] Second, yes, the airline industry suffered greatly from 9-11. I know a man whose business was distributing films for airlines, and his business suffered greatly after 9-11, and to this point, has supposedly never fully recovered.[/B]


My point is...How much have they recovered? What direction is that recovery going now? Will a change in administration help or hinder this recovery?




[i] As for the changing direction in midstream. I disagree with you on this. In previous elections, including in 1992, the country has suffered from either recession or anemic recovery, and has changed direction in midstream, so this is a pattern that has worked before. I dont know how much the economic recovery in the mid 90s had to do with Clinton, or just that the recession and slow recovery had run it s course. I feel that when something is not working, change is needed. It has happened in other elections, and in my view, should happen now. Changing course in midstream, that is an important question, yes. In my view, however, we are on a "course" that has not really worked for many citizens of our country who are now suffering due to the serious unemployment, and poor economic conditions in our nation today.

[/B]


I am of the opinion that we run in cycles no matter who is in office,based on the administration that comes before. We were on a downturn when Bush took office and 9/11 totally threw us off course. I believe a change now would stifle the recovery that we have going and new taxes and other issues would put us at a stand still.


You are right that many of our citizens are suffering unemployment, but the #'s are heading in a positive direction. I feel a change now would slow recovery down as opposed to expediting it and creating new jobs. Based on what I see of Kerry's ecconomic views I see us creating new jobs at the expense of other industry and we would ultimately lose other jobs in the process or pay higher costs for goods and services which would do nothing for the average citizen's cost of living.

Just the way I see things at the moment.



My biggest point here, is that we have to look at ALL issues and not decide who is going to run the country based on political spin from either party.

I posted a link in a "views of the candidates" thread which will allow us to explore which candidate we mostly agree with based on a lot of important issues. It is an unbiased site. If you look at each issue and politician closely you will agree and disagree with each of them on various issues.

It is up to us to decide who we agree with most before we cast our votes in November.

Mitchell
07-07-2004, 02:26 PM
Thank you for the website direction on the other thread. I will read and comment when I fully comprehend what the website's message is.
One other important point on Bush. Although one can never be sure, I feel that another important point in considering Bush is a woman's right to choose. I have been hearing commentary on the news about how the Democrats are against certain Bush judical nominees, as they consider them too conservative, and against their values and ideas. Many of the Supreme Court justices are rapidly advancing in age, and, in the event of the retirement or death of any or several justices, a distinct possibility during the next administration, a second term of George W Bush, with no election to win, and no middle ground to embrace, could easily move to the position of his far right supporters, and nominate Supreme Court justices who would jepordize a woman's right to choose. So far, during his term, this has not been an issue, as no justice has either retired or passed away. During Clinton's term, he appointed two justices, and Bush 41 appointed two during his term. Any pro choice or undecided individual on this issue needs to consider who they vote for very very carefully come November, as if any voter undecided on this issue is to vote for Bush, the Roe V Wade issue could have a strong possibility of coming into play.
In summary, while the economy is important, it is not the only issue in this election. Jobs, the deficit caused by the war, and the abortion issue are key elements in this election, and any voter should hopefully consider such issues carefully before making his or her choice of who to cast their vote for come November.

Mitch

venray
07-07-2004, 08:30 PM
Personally I dont believe who we choose to run the country should be based on who may or may not die on the Supreme court. Just my opinion.

I also don't believe that President Bush would ever throw support to the far right extremists just because he could. I think he has a little more character than that.

As for the other site Mitch, I dont believe there is any underlying message which is why I posted it. I believe it examines the ideology of many of the leaders of this country on many different issues and it even goes into the abotion/non abortion issue on Bush and Kerry as you mention.

I just felt it a useful site to use along with other research when making an intelligent decision this year.

(now if ya want to see a right wing extremist site, go to the thread called book on Moore. Just one of the fool sites I came across while weeding the good from the bad.)


Ray