PDA

View Full Version : Chastity kept for marriage: Roll up, roll up!!! Get yer Bible and silver ring thingy!



BigJim
07-22-2004, 02:14 AM
PRE-POST NOTE

The theme of this post is something that has been gurgling around in the vase of my skull for months now. It occured to me in greater detail whilst driving home from work this morning. Whilst sitting down to type it out, the darn thing started to write itself. What eventually ended up on the screen was more confrontational, and some may say insulting, than even I usually write. Bear in mind that this "article" is un-edited for consideration to people's feelings. When it was finished I thought it stood out as a point-maker even if it's satirical bite was rather sharp and unkind. For that reason I've left it the way it wrote itself. If you are a religious person then quite possibly you will find this offensive and rude. Bear in mind what I've said in the past about how I believe everyone's personal belief is up to them and no-one else has the right to try and change them from it by force or co-ercion. I still believe that and mean no offence to any of you. If it makes it easier, imagine that this was written by a third party whose words and thoughts I have conveyed here for the sake of discussion. That's pretty much the way I regard it myself.

Leave some comments on the floor. Whatever comes into your heads after you've read it. And remember, believe what you will and I'll meet you in the middle for a soda and a hot dog.

Jim - Who is rather confused where this shit came from.


I remember seeing a TV feature about this guy who was heading a campaign to persuade teenagers to stay virgins till marriage. (Male and female.) They turn up for a talk and are treated to some funky music, laser lights and a tit in a suit trying his best to act like a cool dude on the stage. It emphasises the benefites of "faith" and says a Christian approach helps you stay chaste. At the end of the talk, you stump up $15 and get a Bible and a silver ring to wear as a sign of your vow to stay a card carrying member of the V-Club until the day you walk up the aisle.

He was enthusing during an interview about how he was going to tour Britain and how high his hopes were than British teenagers would respond to his call.

Well he's toured Britain now and guess what? Two people took him up on his offer. One was a geek who couldn't get a shag if he wanted one, the other was a Satanist doing it for a bet. And why this lack of sucess? Largely because no-one in Britain gives a shit about religion. In America it's a fact of everyday life to millions that Christ died to save us all, that He'll come back, and how long the winter goes on is "up to the Lord". (Something I heard an Appalachian mountains farmer say on the radio.) But in Britain your atypical church population consists of old biddys who skipped the 60's and went straight to the 70's and recovering alcoholics who like any lame person, have found a crutch to help them walk.

General view of the deep American belief in religion is one of amusement and cultural tolerance in Britain. Most people feel as if it's something we've evolved beyond and that Americans are quaint and rather medieval in sticking to a thought pattern we left behind just after the Second World War. (And probably felt embarrassed about holding onto for that long anyway.)

I wonder if this preacher-dude is resignedly disappointed, or shocked beyond words? I for one am not in the least surprised. Those who did join when he toured this country will more likely than not have joined for the novelty, and will be far less likely to keep their dicks in their pants than their American counterparts once an opportunity presents itself. We've gone to the Devil! :manicd:
-------------------------------------------------------------------



Hmmmm. Odd little diatribe. I'm not sure exactly why it's phrased like it is, unless it's some schizophrenic corner of my mind having a laugh by winding people up. Personally though, I think it could be the start of some decent debate. Why do you think this religious divide between the UK and USA is so wide? Why is religion and Christianity in particular something that is now a minority "hobby" in Britain? Drop your thoughts gators, and let's see what develops. :)

chrisheaven
07-22-2004, 04:06 AM
The divide, I feel, is to do with the puritan ethic in the USA- religion/Christianity has been confused with moralising there.

BigJim
07-22-2004, 11:09 AM
I'm sure you're right. And one thing that stands out is that the main powerbase of the Christian movement is protestant. There are millions of catholics in America certainly, but it seems to me that catholics have a similar degree of devoutness the world over. It's chiefly in America that I've noticed protestantism having such a hold.

BigJim
07-22-2004, 06:51 PM
I'm still not sure why the article is written the way it is. The closest I can come to answering that is that it reminds me of those debates we had in school where the teachers used to deliberately put us on the side we disagreed with, to see what we could come up with.

Now obviously I don't subscribe to conventional religion, but the style is still some way off my usual stuff. As it appeared, word by word, I thought it reminded me of something Richard Littlejohn, a columnist for The Sun tabloid might say, When it was finished I was strongly reminded of James Whale, a presenter for Talk Sport radio. Quite often he will say something totally outrageous just to get people thinking. I think some corner of my subconscious put a subject I've talked about many times before into words you're more likely to see in a tabloid column.

So if like Ann or Crydun, you're a religious person who considers me a friend or aquaintance, please don't think I'm attacking you. I'm not. The article is an entity of itself, demanding and thought provoking.

MrMacphisto
07-25-2004, 03:46 PM
It would be nice if Britain fit the description that writer put forth. This question is for our British board members: how accurate/not accurate was this guy? Is Britain significantly secular? I'm aware that it's definitely secular compared to America, but it can't be as secular as say, Sweden, can it?

BigJim
07-26-2004, 07:43 AM
Originally posted by MrMacphisto
It would be nice if Britain fit the description that writer put forth. This question is for our British board members: how accurate/not accurate was this guy? Is Britain significantly secular? I'm aware that it's definitely secular compared to America, but it can't be as secular as say, Sweden, can it?

I'm pretty certain this article isn't literally accurate. Remember what I said about it almost writing itself? Well that doesn't mean it's accurate or 100% grounded in reality.

I'd say myself that church congregations in Britain don't just consist of old ladies and AA members, although said groups do make up a significant portion of them. Maybe I've just been reading too much Littlejohn and something poured out from between the cracks. I was genuinely interested in what American members would think if say, they'd visited Britain and read this sort of thing in a newspaper.

Hmmmmm, secular. No Britain isn't as secular as a place like Sweden, but I think it's for a different reason. Sweden always struck me as a case where more people were personally evolved and spiritually beyond the need for anything so restrictive as religion. In Britain people just don't give a shit about it. They're more concerned with football and getting pissed out of their brains. It has to be said though that political figures have never pushed religion as a "weapon of choice" in Britain, preferring to resort to far more devious tactics; American politicians have used it since time immemorial so it's become deeply embedded in the national psyche.

What are your thoughts Mac?

MrMacphisto
07-26-2004, 04:48 PM
My thoughts are... what could be more "devious" than using religion to further your political agenda? Saying God is on your side is about the most devious thing I can think of because of the kind of power that invokes among the religious. Faith is powerful in the sense that if enough people believe one thing to be true, it becomes true for all practical purposes (regardless of how false it might truly be).

BigJim
07-26-2004, 05:46 PM
I think if people would only realise that they are "God", they'd see they didn't need someone to follow to find Him. It also follows that someone else (like a political leader) couldn't possibly have "Him" on their side, because God exists in all. Quite frankly, I find Gee Dubya professing to be a Christian as laughable as I find his "we fight war for peace" mantra. As the hippies of the 60's used to say...

"Fighting for peace is like fucking for chastity."