A Statement About America...

Just passing it on....food for thought, ammo for discussion or target for opponents. Q



THIS SAYS IT ALL!!!!!
Broken Arrow, Oklahoma School officials remove "God
Bless America" signs from schools in fear that someone
might be offended.

Channel 12 News in Long Island, New York, orders flags
removed from the newsroom and red, white, and blue ribbons
removed from the lapels of reporters. Why? Management did
not want to appear biased and felt that our nations flag
might give the appearance that "they lean one way or another".

Berkeley, California bans U.S. Flags from being displayed on
city fire trucks because they didn't want to offend anyone
in the community.

In an "act of tolerance" the head of the public library at
Florida Gulf Coast University ordered all "Proud to be an
American" signs removed so as to not offend international
students.

I, for one, am quite disturbed by these actions of so-called
American citizens; and I am tired of this nation worrying
about whether or not we are offending some individual or
their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on September 11,
we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of
Americans. However, the dust from the attacks had barely
settled in New York and Washington D.C. when the "politically
correct" crowd began complaining about the possibility that
our patriotism was offending others.

I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against
anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to America. In
fact, our country's population is almost entirely comprised of
descendants of immigrants; however, there are a few things that
those who have recently come to our country, and apparently
some native Americans, need to understand.

First of all, it is not our responsibility to continually try
not to offend you in any way. This idea of America being a
multi-cultural community has served only to dilute our
sovereignty and our national identity. As Americans, we have
our own culture, our own society, our own language, and our
own lifestyle. This culture, called the "American Way" has been
developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by
millions of men and women who have sought freedom. Our
forefathers fought, bled, and died at places such as Bunker
Hill, Antietam, San Juan, Iwo Jima, Normandy, Korea, Vietnam,

We speak English, not Spanish, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese,
Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to
become part of our society - learn our language!
"In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some
off-the-wall, Christian, Right Wing, political slogan - it
is our national motto. It is engraved in stone in the House
of Representatives in our Capitol and it is printed on our
currency. We adopted this motto because Christian men and
women, on Christian principles, founded this nation; and
this is clearly documented throughout our history. If it is
appropriate for our motto to be inscribed in the halls of our
highest level of Government, then it is certainly appropriate
to display it on the walls of our schools.

God is in our pledge, our National Anthem, nearly every
patriotic song, and in our founding documents. We honor His
birth, death, and resurrection as holidays, and we turn to
Him in prayer in times of crisis. If God offends you, then
I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new
home, because God is part of our culture and we are proud
to have Him.

We are proud of our heritage and those who have so honorably
defended our freedoms. We celebrate Independence Day,
Memorial Day, Veterans Day, and Flag Day. We have parades,
picnics, and barbecues where we proudly wave our flag. As
an American, I have the right to wave my flag, sing my national
anthem, quote my national motto, and cite my pledge whenever
and wherever I choose. If the Stars and Stripes offend you, or
you don't like Uncle Sam, then you should seriously consider a
move to another part of this planet.

The American culture is our way of life, our heritage, and we
are proud of it. We are happy with our culture and have no
desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things
where you came from. We are Americans, like it or not, this
is our country, our land, and our lifestyle.

Our First Amendment gives every citizen the right to express
his opinion about our government, culture, or society, and we
will allow you every opportunity to do so. But once you are
done complaining, whining, and griping about our flag, our
pledge, our national motto, or our way of life, I highly
encourage you take advantage of one other great American
freedom, the right to leave.

man......that's really messed up......I can't even think of anythin to say about it..........it's just really messed up........and it kinda reminds me of another policy, that prohibits writing offensive terms on bombs.....like we did back in WW2......I can't believe we're worrying about hurting the feelings of the government we're bombing.......it's just unnecessary and in my opinion, stupid........

oh well........I guess I'll stop my bitching for now......at least, until I can think of more things to say.......heh......later people..........and GOD bless america.........

All I really have to say about all these "victims" is that all of our points of access also work the other way.These people will whine and find fault with this country at a moment's notice,but will still stick around to share in its blessings.HYPOCRITS.

Furthermore - does ANYONE out there worry about whether they offend US or not? Apparently it's OK to insult the United States and its people to one's heart's content. The kind of things the Muslim radicals criticize the US about, from what I've been reading, show an appalling lack of understanding of our society and our culture; yet nobody seems to be waving fingers at anyone in the Middle East and telling them how they need to Be Sensitive to the Values of Americans In Order to Promote Understanding.

Also, my grandparents were immigrants, and they spent their lives being called "dumb Polacks" by people who were already here, and...guess what -- they survived, somehow. So if you're easily offended, lighten up.

(Really guys, I AM looking for a new job...I just posted my resume on Monster. But even a job-seeker needs the occasional tickle break. )

wow

I am astonished at how un-American these acts are.....what a country we live in.......so full of bright people......

Yeah, I got that sent to me in an Email recently. I think it's rediculous, and I'm glad people are taking a stand. I mean, offending people?! That's crazy! I would have thought the crime and other world issues at the moment would be more important right now than some signs! Nevermind...

Well said qjakal, I find the fact that all that occured offensive. I did hear of two incidents similar to what you have listed that were quickly remedied.

-First incident took place at some office building. A woman put a little american flag up at her cubicle and was told by management to remove it so as not to offend anyone. She immediatly began packing up her stuff and quit on the spot. Others followed her lead and the company backed down real fast. The woman and her fellow employees went back to work and her little flag stayed up.

-The second happened at a police department. A friend of mine who knows some officers told me about it. The cheif of the department told his officers they couldn't put flags on their patrol cars so as not to offend anyone. The officers bitched so much, guess what, now there are flags on the patrol cars. That cheif as no confidence from his officers anyway, so he folded real quick on that lame ass policy.

I can't beleive this kind of stuff i s happening. However if people unite and speak out against it will stop if the two above situations are an indicator.

offensive to put up AMERICAN flags....hmmmm maybe because uh ummmm,i don`t get it...i mean WTF.maybe if people put up signs that said i hate arabs or something,that might be offensive.so it`s offensive to put up AMERCAN flags in AMERICA,makes no sense

Hey Daumantas - greetings from a fellow Polack! My people survived and prospered too, as will anyone who first looks for a helping hand on the end of his own arm.

I agree with Q on this one (big surprise.) I also agree with the Italian Prime Minister, who said that Western culture is far superior in all respects to Islamic culture, stuck as they are in the 1400's.

I'm tired of political correctness. Why do we have to respect other cultures, when others have no reciprocal requirement to respect ours? Screw 'em. While they're here, they have a right to whine - I have a right to join my neighbors and shout them down. Anyone who doesen't like that can get back on his camel and go back where he came from.

Strelnikov

Bravo!

I couldn't have said it any better myself - the day it becomes politically incorrect to hang an American flag in America is the day I grab the rest of my reservist unit and start knocking a few "international" heads. People can knock our culture and our nation to their hearts content, for it doesn't bother me. All I have to do is ask myself which country has built itself up, in two hundred years, from colony to superpower; which nation has landed men on the moon; which nation has devised nearly every major technological breakthrough in the last hundred years; and the question of which culture is superior in every way is answered.

Seems so...but

Well, having said all this and feeling as we all do, it's time for me to play devils advocate once again! Is our culture truly superior, or is it merely technologically superior? The development of advancements in creature comforts, weaponry, transportation and such gives us a claim to "superiority" in one sense, but have we managed all this at the cost of our souls and morals? Our crime rate spirals upward, our jails are overcrowded and ineffective according to some, and we still struggle with racism and poverty as well as educational issues. There are many examples of democracies and representative governments throughout the world whose people may have made more progress than we have on some of these issues....does this imply that they are our superiors culturally? The actual intent of a TRUE Islamic culture is peaceful in nature, and yet due to their technological "illiteracy" we and much of the world presume them to be our inferiors. I admit that they are coming up "short" at the moment by not denouncing this moron and his cult for the evil idiots that they have shown themselves to be....and that in itself may be a symptom of their lack of cultural superiority. American pride and self image are in good shape...as we have recently demonstrated. Hopefully we can use this groundswell of emotion to turn the tide of crumbling morals and social PC at any cost back about 20 years and settle the issue of cultural values for a few more centuries? Again...food for thought. Q

Q, I'm all for national pride, and American symbolism should be allowed everywhere, especially in times of crisis. Beats religious sentiment any day, IMO.

Along that line, the religious sentiment therein IS a bit overworn. The separation of church and state is broken in the very definitions of some of our patriotic symbolism. "In God We Trust" assumes you have someone of such a name in which you place trust. Ask a Moslem friend about that. Ask the atheist in my family, who fought in Vietnam. Heck, I'm not Christian, and translate the statement to imply higher powers where God is used.

Religious freedom is a great boon to this country. I'm glad of it. I'm also tired of certain faiths feeling the need to "sell" me theirs. Showing up at my doors to do such has resulted in a great variety of responses. My step-brother still wins, 'cause the lad answered the door naked. As the door was secluded inside a walked patio, it was private, and thus legal. The silly lad looked it up at the library (back before net days) even. Now, though, I'm getting such on email lists, and even when ASKED, folks will insist on sending more religious content.

I'm American to the core. I just don't dig the constant need of certain religous groups to preach their faith.

...

(waiting for the inevitable thought)

Yeah, the founding fathers were predominantly Christian. They were predominantly Freemason, too. Should we all be Freemasons? Uh, no. Choice, people. It's a free country, bless it. It's all about choice, here. We should be allowed to CHOOSE to show our flag everywhere, and even to quote religion-oriented known phrases of patriotism.

I'm just thankful that the varied religions by which my friends believe doesn't preclude them from being my friends. It's all about the love, after all.

dvnc

These incidents are examples of what happens when you allow political correctness to dictate your daily life.PC is actually a benign name for censorship,no matter what its proponents tell you.And they ARE the minority in this country,so let's make sure they know that.

Devil's Advocate

Time for *me* to play devil's advocate once again.

Are we 100% sure that these things actually HAPPENED? Can anybody direct me to a credible news source for these items? And if they did happen, are we 100% sure that we have ALL of the facts surrounding the incident? Call me overly skeptical, but these stories sound just too perfectly crafted; they smack of some internet hoax that somebody made up in order to justify a jingoistic, 'these-people-ought-to-love-America-or-leave-it' response. In other words, certain people are chomping at the bit to prove that they are more patriotic than the next guy. What better way to do it than to set up a phony straw man (e.g., "Liberal Educator Bans Pledge of Allegiance") and knock it down with a howitzer.

Finally, even assuming the worst -- that such incidents really did happen -- do they really threaten us? or threaten America? Remember, we are fighting *against* people who censor free speech and do not tolerate dissenting viewpoints. Let's not become what we are fighting. Surely Americans can survive free speech that infuriates us and dissent that sets our teeth on edge. These stupid cases, assuming for a moment that they are true, are cleary a very small mis-guided minority -- the exception to the overwhelming majority of flag-waving hawks out there.

I suggest we direct our anger at the monsters that perpetrated these murderous acts, and not waste our anger on those that don't measure up to our 'patriot-meter'.

Then only people who think the american flag is offensive are people who are terrorists themselves. They are telling us they are offended by the symbol of our nation. Our flag gives us pride in our country and to display the flag is an honor. They are trying to destroy the american spirit, and that is terrorism.

another thought

quakal-

I must differ with the following paragraphs of your post:

""In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some
off-the-wall, Christian, Right Wing, political slogan - it
is our national motto. It is engraved in stone in the House
of Representatives in our Capitol and it is printed on our
currency. We adopted this motto because Christian men and
women, on Christian principles, founded this nation; and
this is clearly documented throughout our history. If it is
appropriate for our motto to be inscribed in the halls of our
highest level of Government, then it is certainly appropriate
to display it on the walls of our schools.

God is in our pledge, our National Anthem, nearly every
patriotic song, and in our founding documents. We honor His
birth, death, and resurrection as holidays, and we turn to
Him in prayer in times of crisis. If God offends you, then
I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new
home, because God is part of our culture and we are proud
to have Him."

My problem is: whose God?

Where does this leave me, as an American Jew? I was born and raised in America, as were my parents. Must I honor God's "birth, death, and ressurrection" in order to be a good American? I hope not, because such teachings run counter to my religion, which I ought to be free to exercise under our Bill of Rights. In fact, all religions, with some narrow exceptions (e.g., those that violate secular laws), should have the right to worship their OWN God (or no God at all), and still call themselves Americans.

Our Constitution prohibits the "establishment" of religion by government. Some (myself included) view prayer in school with a wary eye. I don't want my kids being asked or required to pray to Jesus in a public school. If I want my kids praying at school, I'll send them to a private school. But I still consider myself an American.

Poof....magic.

Hi MN tikl....haven't chatted with you before! As for that post...I didn't write it, but I AM fascinated by many of the elements of it on a few different levels. As for being Jewish and American...been there. Converted since my wife is the daughter of 2 Holocaust survivors and I thought it might comfort them a bit...it didn't, but it was a great learning experience. I'm baptized Roman Catholic, been Lutheran and various forms of Protestant as well (parents are also a mixed marriage..we gave everything a try)

The point about God is on target and seems to me to need expansion...since Strel isn't around I'll grab soapbox and start!

The "God" that I envision, the one deity that embodies what the American Life is REALLY about has NO label...needs none and wants NONE! This force is universal in its general principles and overall intent. It symbolizes the best of our virtues applied in a constant manner. This God doesn't need a church to manifest itself...it is a spirit that is readily accessible to all of its people. The symbols and trappings that have grown up around organized religion would merely amuse MY God. And oh yes indeed....my God has a sense of humor and the absurd. Awful in wrath towards evil and benevolent beyond understanding to the weak, helpless and innocent. Don't try to box my guy into a set of holidays or events, because my God is unconcerned with these things...WAY too busy with a helluva work ethic is how I see this being! He/She/It is one that makes my eyes water when I hear our Battle Hymn or National Anthem...and if you and any other government or organization wants to try to legislate or label it's existence...go crazy....it's your time and effort. My God is busy...way too busy to worry about those things while there's bigger issues on the table.

Hope that makes my personal postion clearer MN...and that we continue to chat! Q

MN, full marks, walk to the head of the class!

Druidic...?

Re-reading my own post...I sound like a tree hugging Druid, minus the tree! Hmmm....any Druids onboard ?(I'm guessing dnvc...lol..he has that sort of personality!) Maybe it's time to strike out and start a cult for myself...the hours are long, but from what I can see the perks are awesome! Only problem is I lack charisma, talent, looks and a remote piece of land in a state that doesn't give a crap what it's inhabitants do on said land....tough being out east, limited opportunities for godhood. Q

LOL! Nah, Q, I'm not Druidic. I *am* readin' about such folk currently. Someone recently made me aware of my not having given them the time I gave to readin' 'bout the other faiths.

Neither Jewish nor Christian, but still American,

dvnc

Maybe Q really is a Druid - he just conjured ME up.

MN and I have crossed - not swords - quills? elsewhere on the forum. Here's my take, as an American and a nonpracticing Catholic who still considers that religion to be part of my cultural identity.

Yes, this is a Christian country, in the sense that Christian concepts and assumptions are the basis of our civil law. Get used to the idea. If that bothers you, you have the freedom to try to change it, or to go somewhere else that suits you better.

Yes, our Western culture is superior to all others. These days, even totalitarian despots pretend to believe in the concept of the worth and dignity of the individual, and in the democratic ideals that are its natural outgrowth. Everything anyone else knows about such things, they learned from us - you won't find it appearing spontaneously anywhere else. Do we have problems? Hell yes! But ambitious regular folks from all over the world know that we have the best deal going. Otherwise, they wouldn't risk their lives in leaky boats or unventilated shipping containers to come here.

The First Amendment says that Congress shall not establish a state religion. It does NOT say that religious expression must be banned from all public life. It's traditional here in the Bible Belt for public functions to start with a blessing - city council meetings, PTA, graduation ceremonies, football games (although the latter almost count as religious rites themselves.) The leader is usually a member of one of the more conservative Protestant churches, because they're the majority here. In those situations, I stand with my neighbors, at parade rest, WITH MY MOUTH SHUT, out of respect for their beliefs until they finish. I don't bitch and moan about it, or try to ginn up a lawsuit. It's simple really - good manners, like my mom taught me. The ACLU and others like them can go piss up a rope.

The PC types tell us that we have to respect all other cultures, while no such requirement is imposed on the others regarding our culture. If one good thing has come out of the 9/11 attack, it's that now we're all Americans together against the world, and proud of it. The PC bastards are on the defensive. Q, if you know anyone in the road building business, order up a big pot of tar. I'll bring feathers, and the rails we'll ride them out of town on.

Strelnikov

Superior culture? Nah!

Strelnikov,

Your statement that 'Western Culture' is superior to all others is rather questionable for the bigger part of this world. It is economically superior, that's true, but mostly because of historical reasons, and the geographic privilege to live in a moderate climate. The Western political system is probably the best solution for us, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's the best for all nations. Try to govern third-world countries like Bangladesh or Zaire with Western methods, and you'll soon become a case for the mental ward. To build up a democracy and economy in Western style there, you'll need loads of money to simply keep the people alive! Money that these countries haven't got, and will probably never get. And they are not starving because of their inferior culture, believe me.

We shouldn't nourish any illusions that people are flocking to Western countries because of our 'cultural superiority'. That's balderdash; they come to us because we are rich and they are poor. If you dig into the reasons WHY their countries are so poor, you'll probably run into a history of colonial exploitation, either European style or the American variety of economical colonialism (the United Fruit Company in Central America, for example), or because of being made a constant hotspot by the struggle between several superpowers.

The statement about our Western culture being superior to all others is nothing but disguised racism. It's the attitude of Spanish Conquistadores towards the Inca and Aztec culture, the attitude of the British Empire towards 'the bloody natives' in their colonies, the attitude of Wild West America towards Red Indians, and finally the attitude of Hitler's 'Herrenrasse', assuming a natural leadership role of the Germanic race over all other races. This attitude is closely related to slavery and the KKK, too, only disguising racism more cleverly behind a screen of economic superiority of predominantly white countries.

I agree that people coming to Western countries should adapt their behavior to Western style. When I go to a party in a friend's house, I will not spray insults on his walls and burn whatever flag he has. Not because I think his or my culture is superior, but because of simple politeness. Extradite those immigrants who don't like the country they have come to, not because they're immigrants, but because they act against their hosts.

I'm sorry but I have no idea what 'PC' in your posting means, maybe you could enlighten me, Strelnikov. If they are people who violate the law, let the law punish them. If they are simply advising more consideration towards other cultures, listen to them. You don't have to agree, just listen. Tar and feathers for opposing views is not part of our Western culture at all.

PC'ism

PC ...shorthand for "politically correct", has grown to epidemic proportions here in the USA. One can barely tell a story or relate the days events without running afoul of the PC Brigade nowdays. Strel seems to be quite upset about them...lol. I, on the other hand, find them to be delightful "bait" for amusement and hijinx! They are very predictable and rigid, and have the potential for hours of glee hidden in their narrow minded hides!

Some good points regarding opportunity and such Hal, but I agree with some of the other threads contention that Americans have a certain grit and determination that pushes us towards greater achievements on a regular basis. Not saying other countries lack this attitude, merely that we hold it be our highest virtue, whether that be right or wrong.....the work ethic has been the cornerstone of America for generations, and continues to be a motivational force in most of our lives...we strive and achieve, we labor towards goals and successes. If you dumped a sufficient number of young Americans into a third world country, it wouldn't surprise me at all if within a few generations they had made incredible progress in many phases of advancement. Again, not to be PC, but rather to recognize the truth that many cultures value this trait also (Germany being one of those), I admit that others might also succeed, but I'll still bet on the American kids first, okay? Nuff said...gotta locate some rails and tar...big party at Strels!!!

Thanks for the info, Q. Political correctness as a dogma is as idiotic as any other dogma (maybe except my own dogmatic anti-dogmatism...)...

Ouch...

You're making my pointy little head hurt, Hal...stop it or I'll send Strel in here to talk "logic" with you! Q