Bush: With God on His Side, The Rise of the Religious Right

[New2u]

George W. Bush, as Columnist Marueen O'Dowd once said on a show with commentator Tim Russert, "is the Religious Right". This new program will show the strong relationship between Bush and the more extreme Religious elements within our society. Bush's goal along with these evangelicals is to "change" the court system in favor of severly restricting and/or banning abortion rights, most forms of birth control and granting Government "hand outs" to churches (Faith based welfare?).

Sundance Channel to Premiere With God on Our Side: George W. Bush and the Rise of the Religious Right in October
Wednesday October 13, 1:49 pm ET

NEW YORK, Oct. 13 /PRNewswire/ -- Sundance Channel will air the U.S. television premiere of With God on Our Side: George W. Bush and the Rise of the Religious Right on October 18th at 7:00pm ET/PT. The documentary will also air on October 19th at 1:00pm; the 24th at 3:00pm; and the 28th at 12:30am and 7:00pm.

Based on their expert understanding of the evangelical conservative movement, producers Calvin Skaggs, David Van Taylor and Ali Pomeroy were commissioned by Channel 4 (UK) to shed new light on the life and career of George W. Bush. The documentary begins by establishing the historic context for Bush's emergence (in the words of one evangelical leader) as the nation's "First Evangelical." Tracing the movement back to its postwar roots, the film chronicles the emergence of conservative Christians as a potent political force. At the same time, it explores evangelical leaders' surprisingly rocky relationships with American presidents, from Billy Graham and Richard Nixon, to Jerry Falwell and Ronald Reagan, to Pat Robertson and George H. W. Bush. Archival highlights of the historical section include a late-'70's Christian Right get-out-the-vote video, and a pivotal anti-abortion animation set to Cole Porter's "Anything Goes." Among those interviewed are religious broadcaster and former presidential candidate Pat Robertson; Ralph Reed, Executive Director of the Christian Coalition and now a key Bush campaign aide; and conservative political strategist Paul Weyrich.

The documentary then focuses in on the evangelical journey of George W. Bush, a self-described "lowly sinner" who became President. Tracing Bush from his Midland midlife crisis to the war in Iraq, the film opens a window onto how the President's beliefs inform his decisions as commander-in-chief. Along the way, With God on Our Side reveals surprising new information about Bush's "born-again" experience, and about the pivotal but little-known role he played in his father's 1988 presidential campaign. Viewed through the lens of evangelical conservatism, Bush's story emerges as a parable of the complex ways religion and politics mingle in American life. Among those offering their observations are the Reverend Jerry Falwell; Bush strategist and confidante Doug Wead; former White House speechwriter David Frum; and Don Poage, an oil-business associate and Bible-study colleague of Bush's from Midland, TX.

Under the creative direction of Robert Redford, Sundance Channel brings television viewers daring and engaging feature films, shorts, documentaries, world cinema and animation, shown uncut and with no commercials. Through its original programs, Sundance Channel connects viewers with filmmakers, the creative process, and the world of independent film. Launched in 1996, Sundance Channel is a venture between NBC Universal, Robert Redford, and Showtime Networks Inc. Sundance Channel operates independently of the non-profit Sundance Institute and the Sundance Film Festival, but shares the overall Sundance mission of supporting independent artists and providing them with wider opportunities to present their work to audiences.

Source: Sundance Channel

[drew70]

Readers Digest Version: Bush is a Christian and therefore should not be President.

[New2u]

But thanks for letting me know. Just because Bush is a Christian doesn't automatically mean he should not be President. Any person of faith can be a good President. The problem with Bush is he is appealing to the more "radical" and at times, violent elements of (Take no prisioners) Christians. I believe that this element is a small minority of Christians who just have good "loud" voices and are good political manipulators, Jesus aside. Kerry presented a good explanation on his Catholic faith that his belief is on a personal level and has no interest in "pushing" his view of religion and God on others who do not wish for it. Bush is all for pushing his religion into mainstream society weather asked for or not, he believes that Government sponsered religion (Christianity) will make citizens better people and a better society. Maybe, to some degree but unfortunately, Mr. Bush forgot about the first admenment with "The separation of Church and State" so he cannot do that stuff. There has been many "Christian" Presidents: Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, George Bush (Senior), Bill Clinton.

Religion is very important part of our society which must be based on "tolerence" which should be extended to Atheists.

[Candlewicke]

Originally posted by New2u
Bush is all for pushing his religion into mainstream society whether asked for or not; he believes that Government sponsored religion (Christianity) will make citizens better people and a better society. Maybe to some degree, but unfortunately Mr. Bush forgot about the first amendment with "The separation of Church and State"...
And that's as scary as the Soviet government that banned religion entirely.

[Xodlirv]

There's a big difference between calling yourself a Christian and living your life according to Christ's teachings. Whether you believe Christ to be divine or not, do you really think GWB has followed the teachings of Jesus Christ? He can say whatever he wants; his actions speak louder.

[BlackmoonDoll]

Originally posted by Xodlirv
There's a big difference between calling yourself a Christian and living your life according to Christ's teachings. Whether you believe Christ to be divine or not, do you really think GWB has followed the teachings of Jesus Christ? He can say whatever he wants; his actions speak louder.

you don't know George Bush in real life Xodlirv and you haven't sat down and talked to him. nor have i. so we should not Judge. Nither should you.

[venray]

"Bush is all for pushing his religion into mainstream society weather asked for or not, he believes that Government sponsered religion (Christianity) will make citizens better people and a better society. Maybe, to some degree but unfortunately, Mr. Bush forgot about the first admenment with "The separation of Church and State"

1 Totally off the wall here New2u...show something to back up those statements or dont make them.

2 We have had several threads discussing the constitution. In no part of the Constitution does it mention "The separation of Church and State"... that is not how it is worded. The concept of "The separation of Church and State" is not outlined in the amendments any more than the "right to freedom of speech" is in those exact terms.

I suggest you read the constitution and also come up with something that supports that Bush is for pushing government sponsored religion before you present your opinions as fact again in this forum.


Ray

[Xodlirv]

you don't know George Bush in real life Xodlirv and you haven't sat down and talked to him. nor have i. so we should not Judge. Nither should you.

Point taken, but those actions of his which are a matter of public record, are nothing I can envision Jesus doing.

[venray]

Nor can I envision Jesus doing MOST things that politicians and leaders do...including serving in Vietnam or any other war...

Therefor the point is moot...;)

[Xodlirv]

But Jesus was a leader. His following was growing day by day. Isn't that why they killed him?

[drew70]

He was a spiritual leader, but in no way a politician. He held no public office nor desired such. He didn't pander to the religious leadership (The Pharisees) and in fact denounced them publically for making a show of religion and righteousness, but lacking hearts of humility and compassion. This is why the Pharisees hated Him and ultimately had Him killed.

[New2u]

Ray,

Bush had been pushing his "faith based" initiatives from the moment he set foot in the Whitehouse. Admittedly, He did give prior warning before while he was campaigning, but to "pump" Government taxpayer money into Church coffers (usually Christian) the taxpaying Atheists and ignostics don't care for this, I for one don't like it.

Ok, the constitution only refers to not creating an official Government state religion. That was interpreted by later Supreme Court decisions as keeping the Government "free" from all religious influence, thereby keeping it "neutral". The danger is in allowing one religion to influence the Government to the point of setting policies which are not in keeping with other citizens who may not practice that particular religion or agree (Iran, Iraq, to name a few are influenced by the Islamic religion). The Arab countries serve as an example of what can happen if religion is allowed to be a "Governing" force. Much of the insurgents in Iraq are "influenced" by Arab radical religionists. In this country, the abortion and Gay marriage issues are inlfuenced by Religion with Bush setting some policies that were originated by some of the more radical Christian elements.

Even in the Bible, there is no reference to abortion as evil or immoral and the same goes for Gay Marriage. But Christians keep saying that, "it is evil and immoral". Ok, the Bible says that a man will not lie with a man and on abortion, God says that, "I have known you before you were born"...that's it. The Bible also say that homosexuals should be put to death because of what they are. Some have done that but there are a large number who haven't. Lots of extrapolation was done here. My point is that religion cannot be allowed to fully influence U.S. Government policies, it can be used to "suggest" or round out other decisions not directly influenced by religion.

Ray, this is not "off-the-wall" as claimed, it's just good 'ol common sense.

[Haltickling]

I think that Bush would be respected worldwide if his policies really stuck to Jesus's teachings: Love your neighbor like yourself, even if he is your enemy, help the weak and the poor. That would be an intermingling of church and state to which nobody would object.

But then, he wouldn't be a politician... :rolleyes:

[New2u]

Hal, excellent point that you've made. Christianity and politics have never gone together. In fact, it can be considered an "oxymoron" of sorts. To be an effective Politician, one must be able to "lie" effectively. I'm sure you know what the Bible has to say about people who lie. When it comes to being a politician like Bush, it is a case of who do you serve? God or the Party. I guess with Bush, it is only obvious. In Bush's own mind, he does not see himself as a "bad" or an "evil" person. Just a person with a "one track" mind that does not deviate from his selected goal. If Bush would just make some attempt to "open" his mind up a little and realize that he is "mortal" and makes mistakes and not to fear "failure", it won't make him any less a man and he might have had a little more cooperation from the Global community in dealing with Iraq. In the beginning, he told those countries who didn't want to be involved, "Fine, we don't need you, we'll go it alone". Mr. Bush is now "eating" those words and probably wishes he didn't do that.

Off-the-subject, I hope I didn't offend Venray with that last post.

[venray]

Originally posted by New2u
Off-the-subject, I hope I didn't offend Venray with that last post.

Rofl..you couldnt offend me if ya tried New...When you made this statement

"he believes that Government sponsored religion (Christianity) will make citizens better people and a better society. "

Show me how you absolutely KNOW that this is what he believes. A statement to that effect, a quote..something substantive and not just what you THINK he believes based on biased observations of an individual..(yourself)

I was not speaking as someone with an opinion before (as I have ceased bothering) But as a moderator who will call you on statements with no basis in fact. You present them often and back them up with opinion only. The latest is off the wall as I have stated....

No where have I ever seen or heard a quote where Bush has said anything about Government sponsored religion. No politician would presume to go against the constitution.



(glad you did your reading..now read about "christianity" which is not really an organized religion as such....Catholicism perhaps but not Christianity....)


Ray

[Cosmo_ac]

One could point out that Bush has tried to make legislation that homosexuals can not marry, if my understanding is correct, as a sign of him imposing his religious beliefs on America. I don't think anybody could argue that bush is not Religious, so, i suppose it's really up to you as how you interpret this bill. Government sponsered religion wouldn't be too of the wall, if you looked at it from that point of view. Some also see the war in Iraq as a Christian/Catholic Vs. Islam war.

[New2u]

Ray,

I've done some research on Bush and his religious leanings to Government. I've found that Bush had not specifically mentioned in "words" sponsering any state religion like Christianity, but it is more "reflective" in his policies. Bush is too 'cunning" to make a foolish reference to that. These "faith based" initiatives are mainly for Christian church organizations which Bush wishes to "fund" .

Here are some examples from Bush's own website:

http://www.georgebush.com

The Bush Record < Catholics < Home

President Bush Shares Our Catholic Values

Faith Based Programs, Removing Barriers that Separate the Poor from Effective Services. President Bush has taken bold steps to tear down the barriers that separate the poor from effective programs. Through an executive order, the President required equal treatment for faith-based and community organizations. As a result of this and other efforts to level the playing field in the federal grants process, faith-based organizations received more than $1 billion in competitive, non-formula grants in FY 2003 to benefit the neediest of our society.

Hiring Practices of Faith Based Programs. President Bush will continue to work to protect the civil rights and religious liberty of faith-based organizations that partner with the Federal government, so that they may respond with compassion to those in need in our country. At the Federal level the Administration will support changes to laws, like the Workforce Investment Act and the Head Start statute, that currently prevent religious organizations that participate in these programs to base employment decisions on their ideals and mission.

Taking a Clear Stand Against Assisted Suicide and Euthanasia. On November 6, 2001 John Ashcroft reversed a Janet Reno ruling that allowed doctors to assist the suicide of their patients. Ashcroft’s restoration of American policy prohibits the use of federally controlled narcotics and other dangerous drugs for the purpose of killing individuals seeking suicide. Attorneys for the president have vigorously defended the decision in court.

President Bush has founded his presidency on the principles that are the backbone of our nation. People of faith across the country recognize the President is a man of strong moral character who has restored honor and dignity to the White House. He has nominated and appointed conservative judges who will strictly interpret the law, supports the sanctity of marriage between one man and one woman by promoting a Federal Marriage Amendment, and has signed into law three major pro-life laws as he works to promote a culture of life.

This effort, led by members of the Bush-Cheney Conservative Values Team, includes voters from across the country talking to friends and family.

President Bush’s Agenda for the American People

Building a Culture of Life: President Bush is the most pro-life president in history. He has signed into law the Born Alive Infants Act, Partial Birth Abortion Ban and Laci & Connor Peterson’s Law.

President Bush believes that marriage is the union between one man and one woman. He supports a Federal Marriage Amendment.

President Bush has nominated and appointed conservative judges who will follow the letter of the law and will not legislate from the bench.

President Bush has created a national Faith Based Initiative that is serving people in communities all across America.

President Bush has been a strong protector of religious freedom. He has signed a reaffirmation of “In God We Trust” as the national motto and has defended the phrase “Under God” in the Pledge of Allegiance.

Below is a website address to an article from the "American Atheist" website on Bush's religious policies:

http://www.americanatheist.org/supplement/communitarianism.html

Noted US News writer Kenneth Walsh: “Bush, a born-again Christian, is said by friends to believe, despite mixed evidence, that America is ‘on the cusp of a religious revival.’” An unidentified Bush adviser quoted the president: “He knows that people tend to become more faith-driven as they get older.”


ok Ray, Christianity is not of one church but of "many" loosely conglomerated organizations. The Catholic church being the "General Motors" of Christianity.

[Xodlirv]

One could point out that Bush has tried to make legislation that homosexuals can not marry, if my understanding is correct, as a sign of him imposing his religious beliefs on America. I don't think anybody could argue that bush is not Religious, so, i suppose it's really up to you as how you interpret this bill.

This proves to me that Bush is not a follower of the teachings of Christ. Christ was not about hatred and exclusion, but about acceptance and love. "Love thy neighbor as thyself", that was one of his. Christ would never have denied basic human rights to a group of people whom God made different from the majority.

Sure, there's an Old Testament reference that preaches hatred against homosexuals. There are also Old Testament passages that say you must be put to death if you talk back to your parents, or if you do any kind of work on the Sabbath. Funny we don't see any legislation trying to enforce those.

[Cosmo_ac]

seems to me, and i could be off here, that Christians follow the new testament, and Catholics follow the old testament. However, i don't really study either, so i could be wrong.

[drew70]

Nah, it's a bit more convoluted than that, I'm afraid. They both believe in both Old and New Testaments, only the Catholic Bible has a few more books added to it, most of which are old testament. Catholics believe in the sovereignty of Mary and that of the Pope as well. Christians believe in a direct relationship with Christ, without the need of a Priest (or Mary) as intercessor.

[redway10]

Catholics are Christians, but they are not Protestants.

Regarding Homosexual Behavior:

Old Testament:

Leviticus 18, Verse 22 says: "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination."

New Testament:

Romans 1:26 says: "For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise, also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due."

I think the Bible is pretty clear on this issue.

I also think that the Bible is pretty clear on slavery (67 mentions - not a sin!) and the eternal fate of non-Christians (many mentions, like Mark 16:16 - all going to hell).

Funny though, you hear the verses on homosexuality quoted a lot more often than the verses on slavery.

This was not true before the American Civil War however, when the Bible was used to defend hundreds of years of slavery. According the Bible, it's not a sin to own another person! Maybe the Bible is right.

Religious faith is nowhere near as pure and kind as its proponents like to assert.

[Candlewicke]

Originally posted by redway10
...According the Bible, it's not a sin to own another person! Maybe the Bible is right.
And some people claim that the bible is god's word? Uh uh, I can't believe that...

Candlewicke