the "baseball only" thread

[amk714]

I don't believe in jinxes but I'll stop posting about the game in case you're right. :bubble:

[CaptainQuantum]

If the White Sox blow this, I will be thoroughly convinced that BOTH Chicago's baseball teams are cursed!

[amk714]

Darin Erstad (of the Angels) catches the fly ball to end the inning! YES! (Told you I don't believe in jinxes.) :D

[milagros317]

Tomorrow's two games are stupidly both scheduled at 8pm EDT. One should have been made an afternoon game.

[amk714]

Who scheduled the games to be played at the same time on the same day? :Grrr: And the Angels are up 3-2 in the top of the 9th. :D

[milagros317]

I don't know who is responsible for the scheduling. One game will be on FOX, and the other on FX, so you can watch them both, if you have picture-in-picture or two TV's in the room.

[amk714]

True mila, but I still don't know why anyone would want them scheduled at the same time. Right now though, I'm just glad the Angels beat the White Sox. :D

[ticklingfeet4fu]

I am rooting for an Angels - Astros World Series.

[amk714]

Any matchup of the four teams left will make a great World Series. Of course I want my Angels to be in it, but the Astros have never won, the White Sox last won in 1917, and while the Cardinals are the most successful team left (9 titles, second only to the Yankees), they haven't won it since 1982. So I'll be happy with whoever gets there and wins, but I'll be happiest when the Angels do. :D

[milagros317]

I will have the remote in hand to shift back and forth between the two games. :D

[amk714]

I've decided to follow today's games online to save my remote from wear and tear. :couch:

[milagros317]

Cardinals are off to an early 2-0 lead.

[amk714]

White Sox lead 1-0. :sowrong:

[blondie46]

omgosh i forgot! Thanks. Will turn on the tv now.

[amk714]

Glad to help out, blondie46. :) The Angels have tied it! YES! :couch:

[leafstk]

Damn... thought this was about hockey :imouttahe

[milagros317]

Cardinals now lead 5-2 going to the 9th.

[amk714]

The White Sox did NOT deserve to win the game! The home umpire made a terrible call. The Angels catcher CAUGHT the ball BEFORE it hit the ground! I'm so PISSED right now. :ranty:

EDIT: I just saw the replay. SOMEONE made a terrible call, because the home umpire called it out TWICE! :Grrr:

[CaptainQuantum]

I didn't watch either game, but in the post-game here in Chicago they said a bad call went the Angels' way last night, which would have tied the game. Something about rolling into a double play or something. With 46 years since their last World Series appearance, and 88 years since their last championship, I think White Sox fans will take this one LOL

[amk714]

I still say it was a bad call. Look for my post about it in the thread started by Krokus in General Discussion.

[ticklingfeet4fu]

I didn't watch either game, but in the post-game here in Chicago they said a bad call went the Angels' way last night, which would have tied the game. Something about rolling into a double play or something. With 46 years since their last World Series appearance, and 88 years since their last championship, I think White Sox fans will take this one LOLYou can't trust the White Sox announcers. They are homers like the Yankees announcers are. I was watching the Yankees postgame after they lost and they blamed the loss to the Angels on Bubba Crosby and that awful call made by Joe West the home plate umpire. But they don't blame Alex Rodriguez though he was 2 for 15 ( which is a .133 average ). Did the White Sox announcers tell you that they could not execute 2 sacrifice bunts or that they ran themselves out of another inning? I am positive they did not. They are not very objective so DO NOT take them at their word. Like Yankee announcers you would think that Randy Johnson didn't have a bad game 3. They focused on Bubba Crosby running into Gary Sheffield and that call. Like the other games did not matter. :confused:

[milagros317]

As a neutral observer who has little or no rooting interest in the ALCS, let me say that it was a very bad call.

[CaptainQuantum]

Imagine if the White Sox win the series in 7, how people are going to point at this bad call! If they do win the series, I hope they win it convincingly so Game 2 won't matter so much. I'd hate to see a team end a 46 year World Series drought and have it tarnished by controversy.

Also, I wanted to ask: do you like the old way of deciding the MVP better or the more recent way? The old way, the player who had the best year would get the MVP, even if his team finished in last place. But now the trend is to only give it to players who were on winning teams. I guess I can understand that, because it's about the Most Valuable Player and if a guy's team didn't finish anywhere near 1st place, how valuable was he? Maybe if they changed the name of the award to Player of the Year or something, but I don't see that happening.

[milagros317]

I'm glad there is only one game tonight, so I don't have to keep flipping back and forth. :D

[amk714]

Imagine if the White Sox win the series in 7, how people are going to point at this bad call! If they do win the series, I hope they win it convincingly so Game 2 won't matter so much. I'd hate to see a team end a 46 year World Series drought and have it tarnished by controversy.

I hate to say it, but if the White Sox win the series, that call will hang over their heads until the end of time. I'll still congratulate them (and yes, if they do beat the Angels, I'd rather they do it lopsidedly, because close losses are tougher to take), but the missed out will be talked about for years to come unless the Angels win. Look at the blown call by Don Denkinger that cost the Cards the World Series in 1985. Again, I don't blame the fans or players, only the stupid umps. :disgust:

[milagros317]

Yes, everybody who saw the 1985 World Series remembers that bad call, still, 20 years later.

[JPie1]

You can't trust the White Sox announcers. They are homers like the Yankees announcers are. I was watching the Yankees postgame after they lost and they blamed the loss to the Angels on Bubba Crosby and that awful call made by Joe West the home plate umpire. But they don't blame Alex Rodriguez though he was 2 for 15 ( which is a .133 average ). Did the White Sox announcers tell you that they could not execute 2 sacrifice bunts or that they ran themselves out of another inning? I am positive they did not. They are not very objective so DO NOT take them at their word. Like Yankee announcers you would think that Randy Johnson didn't have a bad game 3. They focused on Bubba Crosby running into Gary Sheffield and that call. Like the other games did not matter. :confused:

I do think that if Sheffield caught that ball and that one bad call would have change the game, but then again the blew many chances that they cannot blame on anyone else. They left too many men on base, so yes a couple of other things could have affected the game but ultimately this game came down to lack of production and key hits. And this my friends is from a true Yankee fan. I will still love them, but they need to fire the Boss!!! LOL

[amk714]

Right now it's 2-1 Astros, top of the 7th. Let's hope there isn't a bad call in this one. :shock:

[CaptainQuantum]

E-2

By Ryne Sandberg, Yahoo! Sports
October 13, 2005

Many people are pointing fingers at home plate umpire Doug Eddings for making a bad call on A.J. Pierzynski's swinging third strike. The call will forever be debated – Did Eddings' closed fist mean strike three (that was dropped) or did it mean a strikeout?

Either way, with 40,000 Sox fans screaming, Josh Paul can't take anything for granted.

The Los Angeles Angels catcher should have checked with Eddings and made sure what the call was. Instead of trying to "sell" the inning-ending strikeout by rolling the ball back to the mound, Paul should have taken the extra second to either tag out Pierzynski or make the throw to first base.

It's impossible for any home plate umpire to make a call on a low pitch like that. He'll wait to see what develops afterward – whether the catcher asks him if he caught the ball, or tags the batter out, or steps out and throws to first. There's usually communication between the catcher and umpire. In this case, none of the above was done by Paul, who assumed Pierzynski had struck out.

I learned as a rookie not to be an umpire while I was playing. More often than not, if I tossed my bat to the dugout on a pitch that I thought was ball four, I would hear the umpire call a strike before I could leave the batter's box.

Also, while covering second base on steal attempts, we are told to "sell" the out by trying to convince the ump that we made the tag. We pop up and act like we're getting ready to throw the ball around the horn, or if there are two outs, we start running toward the dugout. However, in any of those cases, I would never just roll the ball back to the pitcher's mound. I would keep the ball in my glove and show that I got the out.

You can blame Eddings for his miscommunication, but it is also part of Paul's responsibility to understand what call is being made. He can't take a chance in that situation. Even if it was a blown call by the umpire, Paul showed poor basic fundamentals.

This controversy will be talked about until Game 3 begins Friday. Then, all will be forgotten – at least from the players' perspective. The Angels understand that human error is part of the game. That's one of the things that makes baseball so perfect.

The Angels are professionals and led by one of baseball's best managers, Mike Scioscia, who handled Wednesday night's controversy brilliantly. He was very frustrated, but he understood that any derogatory comments toward the umpires would do nothing but cause more controversy. He realized that his team could've done more to win that game.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

'I should've sold it'

Tom Verducci, SI.com

ANAHEIM -- The umpire who made the controversial dropped third strike call in Game 2 of the American League Championship Series said yesterday he "absolutely" made the right call, but admitted he was wrong in the manner in which he called it.

"I think I've got to change my mechanic a little," Doug Eddings said upon arriving at John Wayne Airport in Santa Ana, Calif. Eddings' raised, clenched fist for a strike call is similar to a traditional out call. "That's why I feel bad. I should have given a safe sign."

Eddings admitted he called a dropped third strike more emphatically earlier in the game.

With two outs in the ninth inning of a 1-1 game, Chicago catcher A.J. Pierzynski missed a low, full count pitch from Los Angeles reliever Kelvim Escobar. Angels third-string catcher Josh Paul thought he caught the ball without it striking the ground and immediately rolled the ball toward the mound, which Escobar had vacated on his way to the dugout. Pierzynski, after taking one step toward his own dugout, realized Eddings had made no audible out call and sprinted to first base. Eddings did indicate a third strike by raising his right first, but made no physical or audible call to indicate the ball hit the ground.

"I should have sold it either way," he said.

He admitted he was surprised to see Paul roll the ball to the mound.

"Nine times out of 10 if there is any question the catcher tags him," Eddings said.

Paul said after the game he rolled the ball back instead of tagging Pierzynski because he said he was convinced he caught the ball without it striking the ground. Replays were inconclusive.

When asked if Eddings' actions behind him had no bearing on his decision to roll the ball to the mound, Paul said, "That's correct."

Pierzynski was replaced by pinch-runner Pablo Ozuna, who stole second and scored the game-winning run on a double by Joe Crede.

Eddings and his fellow umpires were met and escorted at the airport by a security officer from major league baseball as well as two armed Orange County sheriffs.

Asked if he felt he made the right call on the pitch, Eddings replied,

"Absolutely. I felt it bounced. I know others have their own opinions."

Eddings said he received voice mail messages from "just about all" other major league umpires as well as several NHL officials supporting his call.

"It makes you feel good," said Eddings. "I've wanted to do this job since I was 13 or 14 years old. I love my job. I still do."

As part of the routine postseason umpire rotation, Eddings is scheduled to work the rightfield line at Angels Stadium for Game 3 Friday night.

[amk714]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AvpnnhGF04SrLYmiwJAXaysRvLYF?slug=rs-angels101305&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/writers/tom_verducci/10/13/eddings.folo/index.html

They're good articles (yes, Josh Paul should've tagged and it's nice to see Doug Eddings recognizing his mistake) but the call still stands. And umpires and referees stick together, that's no surprise. But it's interesting that the umps needed security at John Wayne Airport. :firedevil

[milagros317]

Perhaps some Angels fans should rent this movie. :devil:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0042641/

[amk714]

Looks like a great film! :D
http://www.movieposter.com/posters/archive/main/8/b70-4378
http://www.movieposter.com/poster/b70-4378/Kill_The_Umpire.html

[milagros317]

I've seen it on cable. It's a very amusing baseball film. :D

[amk714]

Is anyone else watching Game 3 of the Angels/White Sox series besides me and mila? :D

[milagros317]

I guess nobody else was watching. I caught the end of game 4 when I got home from out of town last night.

[CaptainQuantum]

I live in Chicago, but I've never seen so many bad calls go against one team in a series! I wonder if the umps bet on the White Sox or something. Or maybe they got told by their higher ups that the White Sox in the World Series would get great ratings because they haven't been in one in so long, so do what you can to help them out. I doubt it, but stranger things have happened.

[milagros317]

I never attribute to malice what can be explained by simple incompetence. It's a shame that it affected the outcome of the game.

[CaptainQuantum]

yeah but if it was just imcompetence, there would be an equal number of bad calls going the Angels way, don't you think? Last night's game was just a joke, and I'm pulling for the White Sox cause I'm in Chicago, but it was still a joke!

[amk714]

The whole series has gone the White Sox way. The no-calls in Game 4 (catcher's interference and two tags the umps missed) favored them. But I do credit the Sox pitchers (three complete games in a row) with shutting down the Angels hitters, as well as their defense. Also Paul Konerko has been great, and the Angels pitching has been shaky. I'm hoping for an Angels win but if the Sox advance, I'll be the first to congratulate them and root for them to win it all. Can't blame everything on the umps, as bad as they are sometimes. :confused:

[milagros317]

The umpiring was less than stellar in the Cardinals/Astros game that just ended, too. :(

[unclebill]

The home plate umpire was horrible in the Astros and Cardinal game. That being said the Cardinal bats seem to have gone cold at the wrong time. I have to admit an Astros vs White Sox World Series would be entertaining.

[milagros317]

Yes, it would be the first World Series victory ever for the Astros, or the first since 1917 for the White Sox. :eek:

[tickledorange]

That game was total crap! If umpires don't want people to yell at them, they shouldn't call strikies when the guy backed up to avoid being hit by the ball!!!

I don't want our team to break another stupid curse/superstition. First the Bambino with the Red Sox then the fact that the Astros have never gone to a World Series! :ignite:

[milagros317]

Perhaps some Cardinals fans should rent this movie. :devil:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0042641/

[amk714]

My sympathies are with the Cards fans, looks like the umps have given them a hard time too. But my hat goes off to the Astros, and I congratulate the White Sox for beating my Angels with great pitching (four complete games in a row with the win by Jose Contreras). I'm betting Chicago will beat Houston in the World Series, but anything can happen, so we'll see. :D

[CaptainQuantum]

White Sox/Astros would be a better World Series than White Sox/Cards IMO, just because the Astros have better starting pitching and the Cards have too many injuries. But if the Cards were at full strength, I'd vote St Louis.

[milagros317]

Looking forward to the World Series no matter who is in it. :D

[amk714]

White Sox/Astros would be a better World Series than White Sox/Cards IMO, just because the Astros have better starting pitching and the Cards have too many injuries. But if the Cards were at full strength, I'd vote St Louis.

I think so. The Astros also have great starters like Pettite and Clemens, so there would be some great pitching duels with those two teams. If the Sox can shut down the Angels they can certainly do it to Houston or St. Louis. The bigger issue would be how the umpires call the games :p, but whoevers wins deserves to, and I believe Chicago will. :D

[milagros317]

Scoreless in the 2nd inning now.

[amk714]

Pujols took Lidge deep for a 5-4 Cards lead! Now we'll see if the Astros can come back in the bottom of the 9th. What a game!

[venray]

Best comeback of the year.....GO CARDS!!!!

[blondie46]

OH YEAH BAYBEE!!!! [COLOR=Red] :bouncybou :bouncybou

[amk714]

The Astros (Brad Lidge, actually) let a golden opportunity slip away. Now the series goes back to St. Louis and the Cards have the momentum. I can't imagine how the Houston fans feel right now. Roy Oswalt and (if necessary) Roger Clemens will have to come up big for them to have a chance. What a great comeback/tough loss. This series just keeps getting better!

[milagros317]

Brad Lige could become the Donnie Moore of this season, poor guy.

[amk714]

If the Cards win in seven it'll be one of the biggest comebacks/collapses in the postseason history of baseball. I still can't believe the Astros were one out away from going to the World Series. My hat goes off to Pujols but I wonder what would've happened if Lidge had walked him. I'm definitely watching tomorrow's game, the fans at Busch stadium will make it worthwhile. :D

[unclebill]

My brother got tickets from his work and asked if I was interested in going to game 6 at Busch. I said HELL YES!!! Mulder and Oswalt are the starters, it should be quite a game. :cool2:

[milagros317]

I would go, if I lived near St. Louis. :D

[CaptainQuantum]

I don't know about Lidge being the Donny Osmond of this season, but I definitely would've walked Pujols. :D

[milagros317]

I will be watching tomorrow night's game, of course. :D

[amk714]

I'll be glued to the TV set. I have a feeling it'll get pretty good ratings. :p

[ticklingfeet4fu]

The Mets released their 2006 baseball schedule. The Mets longest homestand next season is a 9 game homestand in mid-August. The Mets have 2 - 10 game roadtrips and 2 - 9 game roadtrips. What is wrong with that picture? Their longest homestand prior to August is a 7 game homestand. I just don't get it. The Mets host the Yankees May 19th,20th,21st and are at Historic Yankee Stadium on June 30th, July 1st and 2nd. The Mets play at also historic Fenway Park this season on June 27th,28th and 29th. The Mets play in LA on June 5th,6th and 7th while the Dodgers play the Mets on September 7th,8th,9th and 10th in a 4 game series. The Mets are in Wrigley Field on July 14th,15th and 16th after the All-Star break and the Cubs visit the Mets at Shea on July 24th,25th and an afternoon affair on the 26th. The Mets will be in St Louis new stadium on May 16th,17th and 18th while the Cards will be at Shea August 22nd,23rd and 24th. Those are some of the out of division games that the Mets have to play next season. The Mets face in interleague the Yankees for 6 games, Boston for 3 , Toronto for 3 and the Orioles for 3. The Mets have only 6 home games for interleague play and have 9 on the road. This in my opinion ( because of interleague play ) is a poorly done schedule. They really should get rid of interleague play.

[CaptainQuantum]

They really should get rid of interleague play.

Tell that to the owners who make a killing from it. Also tell that to rabid Yankee/Met fans and White Sox/Cub fans. :D

[amk714]

Don't forget the Angels/Dodgers fans! (I'm an Angels fan but the Dodgers are cool too, except when they're playing my team.) :D

[milagros317]

I don't particularly like interleague play, but the real abomination is the designated hitter.

[natural tickler]

This in my opinion ( because of interleague play ) is a poorly done schedule. They really should get rid of interleague play.





that is because of the unbalanced schedule. Hey, it could be worse, the Cubs have 6 against the White Sox, and then only 6 more interleague games. We are short 6 games

[milagros317]

I just put on the telecast of Game 6 of the NLCS. :D

[amk714]

Congrats to the Astros on going to the World Series. Roy Oswalt pitched one hell of a game. Not the way the Cards and their fans wanted to say goodbye to Busch Stadium (and that "out" call on Molina didn't help either) but Houston was the better team. I'm happy for Biggio and Bagwell. Clemens vs. Contreras in Game 1 on Saturday in Chicago! Should be a good one. :D

[Mitchell]

Well, now that the NLCS is over, and the Astros have won, I offically cannot root for any team that knocked my Braves out of the playoffs. So, for the next week plus, Iam a Chicago White Sox fan. I do hope they win anyway. After the Red Sox broke the curse last year, it would be nice to see another curse broken.

Mitch

[amk714]

Whichever city wins will have a big celebration, that's for sure. I think Chicago will, especially with the home-field advantage, but with both teams having quality pitchers, the games should be close. This series has a good chance of going the full seven. And I'll be watching every minute of it. :D

[ticklingfeet4fu]

Tell that to the owners who make a killing from it. Also tell that to rabid Yankee/Met fans and White Sox/Cub fans. :DI am a rabid Mets fan. My father did the crane operations on Shea Stadium before I was even born. So I have been a Mets fan all of my life. I do not like interleague play. Here is why: If the Mets are competing for the wild card or even for the division with the Marlins. The Mets play the Yankees 6 times while the Marlins play the DevilRays 6 times. The Mets don't play the DevilRays and the Marlins play the Yankees 3 times. How about the Phillies who play Baltimore 6 times while they play the Yankees 3 times? The Mets since 1997 have been regardless if the Mets win or lose are at a competitive disadvantage. There is nothing fair about interleague play. The Padres play the Mariners 6 times and don't have to face the Yankees at all this year. If the Mets are competing with the Padres for a wildcard spot how fair is that? Do tell me about rabid fans. I can give you EVERY nook and crany there is to know about baseball. The Mets are never on the same playing field with everyone in the NL because the play 3 more games ( or 6 games ) than any other team in the NL. If the Yankees have a healthy Mariano Riveria then the Mets cannot be on the same playing field with another team in the NL because they do not face a team full of All-Stars as many times as the Mets do. Competitive balance is not there. You hit on a key factor in your statement though. Tell the owners of the Cubs/White Sox or Mets/Yankees. What about the Detriot Tigers? Who are there natural rivals? What about Arizona or Pittsburgh? Who are their natural rivals from the AL? Interleague play does not help everyone. Do you really think that if the Royals are playing to a record of 14 - 35 and they have to play Pittsburgh who is 20 -29 that either PNC Park or Kauffman Stadium sellout? How about the Rockies? Who is their natural rival? Are they selling out Coors Field if the Mariners are coming into their stadium? The answer is NO in capital letters. If it does not help all 30 owners then what is the point of having it? I really hope you will come back with an educated well thought out response. As you can tell I put a lot of time and effort and thought into this. I would love to hear you point of view on this. BTW, I am not being mean spirited about this. I just want to see if you can make this work for 30 owners and not just a select few. BTW, do you think they sellout Marlins/DevilRays at either stadium? The answer is also no. I hope you will get back to this post.

[natural tickler]

I am a rabid Mets fan. My father did the crane operations on Shea Stadium before I was even born. So I have been a Mets fan all of my life. I do not like interleague play. Here is why: If the Mets are competing for the wild card or even for the division with the Marlins. The Mets play the Yankees 6 times while the Marlins play the DevilRays 6 times. The Mets don't play the DevilRays and the Marlins play the Yankees 3 times. How about the Phillies who play Baltimore 6 times while they play the Yankees 3 times? The Mets since 1997 have been regardless if the Mets win or lose are at a competitive disadvantage. There is nothing fair about interleague play. The Padres play the Mariners 6 times and don't have to face the Yankees at all this year. If the Mets are competing with the Padres for a wildcard spot how fair is that? Do tell me about rabid fans. I can give you EVERY nook and crany there is to know about baseball. The Mets are never on the same playing field with everyone in the NL because the play 3 more games ( or 6 games ) than any other team in the NL. If the Yankees have a healthy Mariano Riveria then the Mets cannot be on the same playing field with another team in the NL because they do not face a team full of All-Stars as many times as the Mets do. Competitive balance is not there. You hit on a key factor in your statement though. Tell the owners of the Cubs/White Sox or Mets/Yankees. What about the Detriot Tigers? Who are there natural rivals? What about Arizona or Pittsburgh? Who are their natural rivals from the AL? Interleague play does not help everyone. Do you really think that if the Royals are playing to a record of 14 - 35 and they have to play Pittsburgh who is 20 -29 that either PNC Park or Kauffman Stadium sellout? How about the Rockies? Who is their natural rival? Are they selling out Coors Field if the Mariners are coming into their stadium? The answer is NO in capital letters. If it does not help all 30 owners then what is the point of having it? I really hope you will come back with an educated well thought out response. As you can tell I put a lot of time and effort and thought into this. I would love to hear you point of view on this. BTW, I am not being mean spirited about this. I just want to see if you can make this work for 30 owners and not just a select few. BTW, do you think they sellout Marlins/DevilRays at either stadium? The answer is also no. I hope you will get back to this post.

the only way to fix this is to make a schedule for everyone to play everyone for a 3 game series, then make the rest of the games against your division rivals. There, that fixes the problem. That's how the NBA solved theirs

[ticklingfeet4fu]

the only way to fix this is to make a schedule for everyone to play everyone for a 3 game series, then make the rest of the games against your division rivals. There, that fixes the problem. That's how the NBA solved theirs
It is an idea but here is one problem with that. The NBA plays half the games that MLB does. I like the fact that you play your interdivision rivals 19 times. You being a Cubs fan we will use the Cubs as an example. You play 19 games against all of your division. Do you care that your team plays the Royals or Tigers or would you prefer to play the Mets, Dodgers, Giants and Braves. Since they are in your league they affect the outcome. For example, right now the White Sox are a really good team. You face them 6 times. The Cards face the Royals 6 times. The Cubs ( because of unbalanced schedules) might not even face the Royals and the Cards might not face the White Sox. How is that fair to the Cubs. MLB needs to rid themselves of interleague play.

[natural tickler]

You have to understand this is a way to keep the fans interested, and for them to see matchups you likewise would never see. And yes, you're right, MLB does play more games than the NBA, but the point would be to have everyone play everyone, and then have more games against your division rivals, that way the division would truly be battled over, and then having a couple more teams wouldn't hurt to then even the schedule

[ticklingfeet4fu]

You have to understand this is a way to keep the fans interested, and for them to see matchups you likewise would never see. And yes, you're right, MLB does play more games than the NBA, but the point would be to have everyone play everyone, and then have more games against your division rivals, that way the division would truly be battled over, and then having a couple more teams wouldn't hurt to then even the scheduleAsk the Pirate fans if they care if the Royals come to town. They don't. Now ask the Pirate fans if they care if the Mets come to town and the answer is yes. It is a matter of filling up the park. The Mets, Red Sox, Yankees, Cubs, Dodgers and Giants do it better than most teams. So it would behoove MLB to to keep the American League playing the American League and build up rivalries there and the National League playing the National League until the World Series. Think about it. If the Mets played the Cubs 12 times as opposed to 6 times it would make for a more interesting race in the wildcard. Since we know that if you play a foe ahead of you it is essence worth 2 games doesn't that make it more worth the while? Believe me, I understand what you are saying. But how are you keeping a fan interested if it is DevilRays against the Rockies? It means nothing to them. Ask the Rockies fans if they would rather go see the Dodgers and Rockies or the DevilRays and Rockies. Fans in the NL or the AL only go see the rivalry matchups like the White Sox/Cubs or Mets/Yankees. Though I do know that the Angels /Dodgers do well as does the Reds/Indians and the A's/Giants but not many more really have the juice. I know that the Mets/Cubs was a huge rivalry as was Mets/Cardinals but that is no more and that is sad and I blame that on interleague play.

[milagros317]

Ah, how simple life was when the NL had only 8 teams, and the schedule was this: play each of the other 7 teams for 22 games, 11 home and 11 on the road. :D

[unclebill]

Even though the Cardinals lost in the NLCS, it was a very enjoyable season. As it turned out I attended the final game at Busch Stadium. I had alot of good times there. Opened in 1966, Busch was the last of the "cookie cutter" style ballparks that were so popular in that era. Cranes were already stationed today preparing for the demolition. Jim Edmonds drove his pickup truck around the outfield doing doughnuts. I only wish he would have shown such energy in the playoffs.

[amk714]

I'm not a Cards fan but when the fans at Busch clapped after the game was over, even though their team lost, that was a great moment. A classy, if not happy, sendoff to a great stadium (and a great team). It will be missed. :(

[milagros317]

I agree, the Cardinal fans applauding the Astros' first NL pennant ever was a classy thing to do. :D

[ticklingfeet4fu]

I'm not a Cards fan but when the fans at Busch clapped after the game was over, even though their team lost, that was a great moment. A classy, if not happy, sendoff to a great stadium (and a great team). It will be missed. :(I expect nothing less from Cardinal fans. They are great fans in a great city that played in a great park. I had the chance to go to Busch twice. Once when there was artifical turf( 1983 ) and it get to 170 degrees on the turf and since it was renovated( 2004 ). The park had a more homey kind of feel to it. To bad they will knock that park down. I hope the new park is better than Busch is right now or it was a BIG waste of time and money.

[amk714]

http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stl/ballpark/index.jsp

It looks promising. Of course it won't have the memories of the old ballpark, but there might be some new historic moments in its future. We'll just have to wait and see.

[natural tickler]

Ask the Pirate fans if they care if the Royals come to town. They don't. Now ask the Pirate fans if they care if the Mets come to town and the answer is yes. It is a matter of filling up the park. The Mets, Red Sox, Yankees, Cubs, Dodgers and Giants do it better than most teams. So it would behoove MLB to to keep the American League playing the American League and build up rivalries there and the National League playing the National League until the World Series. Think about it. If the Mets played the Cubs 12 times as opposed to 6 times it would make for a more interesting race in the wildcard. Since we know that if you play a foe ahead of you it is essence worth 2 games doesn't that make it more worth the while? Believe me, I understand what you are saying. But how are you keeping a fan interested if it is DevilRays against the Rockies? It means nothing to them. Ask the Rockies fans if they would rather go see the Dodgers and Rockies or the DevilRays and Rockies. Fans in the NL or the AL only go see the rivalry matchups like the White Sox/Cubs or Mets/Yankees. Though I do know that the Angels /Dodgers do well as does the Reds/Indians and the A's/Giants but not many more really have the juice. I know that the Mets/Cubs was a huge rivalry as was Mets/Cardinals but that is no more and that is sad and I blame that on interleague play.


and just how do you really know what people want to see?? Did you go to all 30 stadiums and take a pulse of what they want?? Did you do any surveys?? All I am saying is that they can try it, it doesn't necessarily have to work, but to try it to take a pulse, and then fix it from within. Hey, they are still trying to recover the fans lost from 1994, so why not?? Besides, all this is a plan to make pennant races exciting, and to fix the schedule in terms of #games played against one other, to ultimately make divisional races more meaningful. besides, tf4f, if you win most of your divsion games anyway, interleague play would then be icing on the cake. The teams should be more focused when playing in their division anyway, so who cares who plays who

[ticklingfeet4fu]

and just how do you really know what people want to see?? Did you go to all 30 stadiums and take a pulse of what they want?? Did you do any surveys?? All I am saying is that they can try it, it doesn't necessarily have to work, but to try it to take a pulse, and then fix it from within. Hey, they are still trying to recover the fans lost from 1994, so why not?? Besides, all this is a plan to make pennant races exciting, and to fix the schedule in terms of #games played against one other, to ultimately make divisional races more meaningful. besides, tf4f, if you win most of your divsion games anyway, interleague play would then be icing on the cake. The teams should be more focused when playing in their division anyway, so who cares who plays whoWe had the best record within our division. Our divisional record isn't an issue. Who in the National League has to play 6 games against the Yankees? That is not the reason why we lost mind you but it creates unfair competitve inbalance for the Mets. As it does for the Cubs. Wouldn't you hate to lose the division by a game to the Cardinals if the Cards play the Royals 6 times and win all 6 games. While you are playing the White Sox 6 times and winning 3 of 6. Explain how that is fair to the Cubs. Oh I forgot, you are a White Sox fan.

[CaptainQuantum]

World Series fans in for a look at old-style baseball

By Jorge L. Ortiz and Mike Dodd, USA TODAY
Fri Oct 21, 7:04 AM ET

The Chicago White Sox call it "smart ball." Others prefer "small ball." By any name, it has been winning ball.

The four teams that reached the League Championship Series in baseball's postseason relied on manufacturing runs with fundamentals and situational hitting, aided by strong pitching, solid fielding and a dash of power hitting.


That should make for an old-style matchup when the White Sox and Houston Astros meet in the World Series beginning Saturday at Chicago's U.S. Cellular Field. (Related item: Key stats for each team)


"It's not going to be like, two-run home run and wait for the closer," White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen said. "It's going to be baseball from the beginning all the way to the end - squeezes, hit-and-run, moving guys over."


That mix of traditional baseball with today's power game could be the formula more teams adopt in the steroid-testing era, especially given the blueprint established by the White Sox, Astros, Los Angeles Angels and St. Louis Cardinals.


It's baseball with brains, not just brawn. The overdependence on the long ball of recent years gets replaced by an emphasis on doing the little things offensively and, as always, getting good pitching.


The number of home runs in the majors decreased this season from 5,451 to 5,017, an 8% decline.


Of the four finalists, only the White Sox ranked in the top five in their league in home runs, but all were among the top five in the majors in earned run average. St. Louis (3.49) finished No. 1, followed by Houston (second, 3.51), the White Sox (fourth, 3.61) and the Angels (fifth, 3.68).


Entering 2005, the Astros and White Sox knew they had to change their offensive approaches.


Houston had come within a victory of the 2004 World Series on the strength of a power-hitting lineup that featured Carlos Beltran, Jeff Kent, Lance Berkman and Jeff Bagwell, as well as a splendid duo of starting pitchers in Roger Clemens and Roy Oswalt.


The Astros were counting on a healthy Andy Pettitte for their 2005 rotation, but the offensive attack had to be modified after Beltran signed with the New York Mets and Kent with the Los Angeles Dodgers as free agents. Houston then lost Bagwell for most of the season because of a shoulder injury.


Asked when he decided to go with a small-ball tack, Houston general manager Tim Purpura joked, "I think the negotiations with Beltran ended on Jan. 7, so around Jan. 8."


Truthfully, Purpura added, he and manager Phil Garner had talked about that option earlier, in part because it suits the personality of Garner, known in his playing days as "Scrap Iron."


"One of the things he mentioned to me in the offseason was that he really enjoyed last year because he could actually manage," Purpura said. "After so much time in the American League, he could actually hit-and-run, put guys in motion, he could bunt."


Garner's influence pays off


Houston scored the first two runs of its 4-1 win in Game 2 of this year's NLCS against St. Louis on a passed ball and a groundout. In Game 4, a 2-1 victory, the Astros scored the winning run without benefit of a hit, combining a walk, a sacrifice bunt and a sacrifice fly. In the pennant-clinching Game 6, a 5-1 victory, Houston's first run scored on a wild pitch following a bunt and its fourth on a suicide squeeze.


"It's night and day," Berkman said of the team's offense in 2004 and '05. "We have very few of the same personnel. We don't have too many established guys, but I think we've got guys that are gritty and compete well with the bat."


Purpura said he found few run-producers available when he went shopping around the trading deadline.

"I don't know what effect the new steroid policy has had. You have to wonder," he said. "Certainly, because you don't have the big boppers, the big swingers, the big RBI guys you've had available in the past, you're going to have to manufacture runs somehow."

White Sox borrow formula

Prompted by the success of the division rival Minnesota Twins, the White Sox put renewed emphasis on pitching, fielding and speed in the past year and a half.

They acquired right-handers Freddy Garcia and Jose Contreras in midseason last year. In the offseason they traded outfielder Carlos Lee and his potent bat to the Milwaukee Brewers for speedy outfielder Scott Podsednik and reliever Luis Vizcaino. Podsednik finished second in the AL with 59 stolen bases.

The White Sox also let go of Jose Valentin and Magglio Ordonez, a consistent producer whose knee injury concerned them. Instead, they signed Jermaine Dye and added Tadahito Iguchi, a Japanese second baseman with a well-rounded offensive game.

A team that for years depended on power hitters Frank Thomas, Ordonez and Lee to bring runners home had found more creative alternatives. The White Sox can still go deep - their 200 home runs ranked fourth in the AL - but they're not solely dependent on the long ball.

"That's the way baseball should have always been," Chicago outfielder Carl Everett said. "But now because of television, fans only see home runs and strikeouts. They don't see base hits, guys moving people over. They don't see a guy sacrificing himself. They don't show that on SportsCenter."

The White Sox didn't have to watch TV to get the picture. They saw in person how the Twins won the AL Central from 2002-04 despite a lack of big-name talent.

When Twins general manager Terry Ryan congratulated him on Chicago's success this season, White Sox vice president and general manager Ken Williams had this response:

"Congratulations my (foot). You backed me into a corner where we had to come out and play your style of baseball and try to beat you at your own game."

Winning with the right mix

This season's total number of home runs is the lowest in the majors since 1997, the year before baseball expanded to 30 teams with the Arizona Diamondbacks and Tampa Bay Devil Rays.

The hitter-friendly ballparks built from 1990 on - among them U.S. Cellular Field, Houston's Minute Maid Park, Baltimore's Oriole Park at Camden Yards and Philadelphia's Citizens Bank Park - clearly contributed to some teams eschewing small ball for raw power.

Some managers, though, were never sold on that philosophy. Angels skipper Mike Scioscia says he'll adjust to whatever his personnel's strengths are, but he always insists on his team playing aggressively and taking the extra base.

Scioscia's Angels won the 2002 World Series behind a lineup that had Troy Glaus and Garret Anderson, who combined for 59 homers and 234 RBI, surrounded by a number of smart situational hitters.

This year they reached the ALCS by relying more on speed. Only Vladimir Guerrero surpassed 17 homers; he had 32. Catalyst Chone Figgins, the majors' top base stealer with 62, got the offense running for a team that led all of baseball with 161 steals.

"If we had a lineup that had seven guys with the potential to hit 25 to 30 home runs, it would be a bit more sit back and slug baseballs," Scioscia said. "We don't have that ability. I think it's great. I think it's baseball. I love it."

So does Cardinals manager Tony La Russa. Although his team is better known for big boppers such as Albert Pujols and Scott Rolen, the large dimensions of soon-to-be-demolished Busch Stadium led to more situational hitting.

With Rolen limited to 56 games this season because of a shoulder injury, the Cardinals finished seventh in the NL in home runs (170) but third in scoring (805 runs), in large part to a league-leading .291 average with runners in scoring position.

Shortstop David Eckstein's presence at the top of the lineup added diversity to the offense. St. Louis had two successful suicide squeezes in the playoffs, one by pitcher Chris Carpenter, the other by Eckstein.

"You can do anything you want with him. You can hit-and-run with him, bunt," La Russa said of Eckstein. "We push the game with him quite a bit."

The White Sox's Williams is all for pushing the envelope, but he warns that baseball is not about to return to the era of the Go-Go Sox, even with Chicago back in the World Series for the first time since 1959. He said the emphasis on power in the past several years has left the minor leagues depleted of fleet-footed talent.

Yet much as Williams was pleased to see the White Sox manufacture some runs in winning seven of their eight postseason games, he was just as thrilled when Paul Konerko homered with at least one runner on base in back-to-back games as Chicago beat the Angels 4-1 in the ALCS.

"My hope is that baseball cares about defense, situational baseball and smart baseball," Williams said. "But in the AL, you'd better have a little power to back that up."

[milagros317]

I'm looking forward to it. And it will be historic either way: first win ever for the Astros, or first since 1917 for the White Sox. :D

[natural tickler]

We had the best record within our division. Our divisional record isn't an issue. Who in the National League has to play 6 games against the Yankees? That is not the reason why we lost mind you but it creates unfair competitve inbalance for the Mets. As it does for the Cubs. Wouldn't you hate to lose the division by a game to the Cardinals if the Cards play the Royals 6 times and win all 6 games. While you are playing the White Sox 6 times and winning 3 of 6. Explain how that is fair to the Cubs. Oh I forgot, you are a White Sox fan.


silly little man. I keep telling ya it is for selfish reasons I am rooting for the Sox, only for our management to get off their asses and field us a good team. As of Nov. 1, my hostilities towards the South Side will be back to normal. Silly rabbit, Trix is for kids

[milagros317]

As of Nov. 1, my hostilities towards the South Side will be back to normal.

Very amusing. I am not surprised. :D

[natural tickler]

Very amusing. I am not surprised. :D



Ya, I thought it was amusing too. Surprised? You shouldn't be.

[milagros317]

My hostility to the hated jints continues, 24/7, all year long. :p :p

[natural tickler]

Ya, but that's because of a home run hit since 1951

[milagros317]

I am too young to remember that season, I have only read about it.
I do remember 1955, of course. :D :D

[natural tickler]

I wonder how long the bitterness and hostility will remain.... :eek:

[milagros317]

I'm not exactly sure, but the sun will be a small, cold lump of coal by then. :p

[natural tickler]

Yanno, there is a song for bitter rivals like you, it goes by the title, "Why can't we be friends??"

[CaptainQuantum]

I am not a Barry Bonds fan. Let me start there. I happen to agree with your father. Bonds did not need to get on steriods. You look at his numbers prior to the 2001 season and he is a Hall of Famer. But I have to admit that it is not Bonds I have a problem with. It is Rafael Palmerio. Palmerio came into this league a singles type hitter. Got on the juice, lied and compiled his numbers then can't seem to keep from putting his foot in his mouth. Palmerio has disgraced himself and the Orioles. But to be honest MLB Commissioner Bud Selig is really to blame. He has denied ever knowing that steriods was ever in this sport until it was too late. Which is a crock. The reason steriods entered MLB was because of the strike of 1994. They needed a gimmick to get the fans back into the stadiums. So blame MLB for all this crap. Everybody turned their heads the other way when asked what happened with steriods. Bud Selig thanks for putting this great game in the crapper.

Oh, and I forgot to add...Palmeiro also got traded from the Cubs for boinking Ryne Sandberg's now ex-wife. :eek:

[milagros317]

If I were a general manager, then I would trade or not trade players based on their ability and my team's needs, not based on whether they committed adultery.

[CaptainQuantum]

If I were a general manager, then I would trade or not trade players based on their ability and my team's needs, not based on whether they committed adultery.

Committing adultery is one thing. A guy having an affair with his teammate's wife...that could be a little bit of a distraction. :p

[milagros317]

I suppose it could. :p

[amk714]

I just want to say even if you're not a fan of either team (or baseball for that matter) this should be a great series. :D

[milagros317]

I am looking forward to watching it, even though I have no rooting interest in either team. :D

[amk714]

My TV is on FOX right now. Look at all those fans! :D

EDIT: Players' intros coming up. :D

[milagros317]

Well, they waited 46 years in Chicago to get back to the World Series. :D

[ticklingfeet4fu]

silly little man. I keep telling ya it is for selfish reasons I am rooting for the Sox, only for our management to get off their asses and field us a good team. As of Nov. 1, my hostilities towards the South Side will be back to normal. Silly rabbit, Trix is for kidsNo self-respecting Cubs fan would ever root on the White Sox. Regardless of their reasons. That would be like Boston rooting on the Yankees. But if you want to be a trader that is your business. But please spare us next season when you tell us you are a Cubs fan because you are not. That is like saying Milagros is a Giants fan. He doesn't root for the Giants to EVER win a World Series. No matter what. So from now on you are a trader to ALL Cubs and National League Fans.

[CaptainQuantum]

I know what naturaltickler means. The White Sox making it to the World Series (and probably winning if tonight is any indication) might indirectly help the Cubs. Lemme explain what I mean.

Chicago is not New York City and it's not Southern California. Chicago has not one, but two baseball teams who have not won a World Series in at least 88 years. It's a whole different dynamic than NYC or California. Chicago has been for many years a Cubs town, and the White Sox have for many years been Chicago's other baseball team. The Cubs rely on mystique, on atmosphere, on having a great place to hang out and get shit-faced (and maybe watch the ballgame too). But if the White Sox win a World Series, Chicago could become a White Sox town overnight.

If that happens, the Cubs attendance, tv and radio advertising sales would start to suffer. And as any Chicago baseball fan knows, the best way to get the Chicago Tribune's attention is to hit them where it hurts...the ole bottom line. The Tribune has been getting by with spending just enough money to keep fans interested. But if the White Sox win a World Series, that won't cut it anymore I don't think. The result: the Tribune has to spend more money to build a real World Series contender, in order to compete with the White Sox for fan loyalty.

As I've managed to say in my usual long-winded fashion, the White Sox winning a World Series would indirectly help Cub fans because the competition would force the Tribune to try harder to build a winner.

[amk714]

That was a great Game 1! It's too bad (for Houston) Roger Clemens had to leave with a sore hamstring. Nevertheless, Jose Contreras, Jermaine Dye, Joe Crede, Neal Cotts, and Bobby Jenks really came through for Chicago. Tomorrow it's Andy Pettitte vs. Mark Buehrle, another fine matchup. Congrats to the White Sox on their first World Series win since Game 5 of the 1959 WS! :D

[milagros317]

Congrats to the White Sox on their first World Series win since Game 5 of the 1959 WS! :D

What I prefer to remember is Game 6 of the 1959 World Series. :D

[chrisheaven]

Now remind me...baseball is the one where they have those little bats right?

[milagros317]

All that you need to know about baseball can be found here, Chris:

http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/official_info/official_rules/foreword.jsp

[chrisheaven]

wow! thanks, Mils- I could become a fan

[ticklingfeet4fu]

I know what naturaltickler means. The White Sox making it to the World Series (and probably winning if tonight is any indication) might indirectly help the Cubs. Lemme explain what I mean.

Chicago is not New York City and it's not Southern California. Chicago has not one, but two baseball teams who have not won a World Series in at least 88 years. It's a whole different dynamic than NYC or California. Chicago has been for many years a Cubs town, and the White Sox have for many years been Chicago's other baseball team. The Cubs rely on mystique, on atmosphere, on having a great place to hang out and get shit-faced (and maybe watch the ballgame too). But if the White Sox win a World Series, Chicago could become a White Sox town overnight.

If that happens, the Cubs attendance, tv and radio advertising sales would start to suffer. And as any Chicago baseball fan knows, the best way to get the Chicago Tribune's attention is to hit them where it hurts...the ole bottom line. The Tribune has been getting by with spending just enough money to keep fans interested. But if the White Sox win a World Series, that won't cut it anymore I don't think. The result: the Tribune has to spend more money to build a real World Series contender, in order to compete with the White Sox for fan loyalty.

As I've managed to say in my usual long-winded fashion, the White Sox winning a World Series would indirectly help Cub fans because the competition would force the Tribune to try harder to build a winner.My point is that is no matter what the White Sox do the Cubs are not going to change their pathetic ways of doing things. If they were to change they would have to sell the team to someone like a George Steinbrenner who cares more about winning than he does about anything else.That is my point. The Tribune makes more money because they have so many resources. If they haven;t done anything to this point they will not start now. :idunno:

[milagros317]

It is raining in Chicago now, and the start of the game is delayed. :(

[ticklingfeet4fu]

The White Sox must be giving great blow j*bs to the umpires before the games start. Who in their right mind thought that Jermaine Dye got hit by that pitch? I mean if it weren't for all these calls going for them they probably would have been eliminated a round earlier. The umpires owe it to MLB and the fans of MLB to get these calls right. I mean I know they are human but how in the world can you say a man got hit on the forearm and he didn't even say ouch? I mean the pitch was a 92 MPH fastball. If he got hit your would think he would say ouch and drop the bat and show some sort of pain. I think even Dye was surprised he was being awarded first base. The umps have to do a better job. :disgust: :sowrong:

[CaptainQuantum]

The White Sox must be giving great blow j*bs to the umpires before the games start.

Hey, you could say the same thing about the Astros in the NLCS. Tony LaRussa and Jim Edmonds both got ejected in one game because the calls were so ridiculous that they both lost it. But I think I heard recently that LaRussa is one of those against bringing instant replay into baseball. Human error is part of the game they say. But since when is error a good thing? :idunno:

[ticklingfeet4fu]

Hey, you could say the same thing about the Astros in the NLCS. Tony LaRussa and Jim Edmonds both got ejected in one game because the calls were so ridiculous that they both lost it. But I think I heard recently that LaRussa is one of those against bringing instant replay into baseball. Human error is part of the game they say. But since when is error a good thing? :idunno:You know that was 1 game. I was rooting for the Cards to get to the Series. But throughout the playoffs the White Sox continued to get calls. That was not the scenerio for the Astros. They had game five against the Braves and game four versus the Cardinals. That is it. The White Sox have yet to lose a controversal called game. In fact, the Angels series was nothing but controversy. How do you compete against that? They say it all evens out. So far it has been so one-sided it makes me wonder. I mean if you miss a call or two that is one thing but the umpires have missed the entire post-season. They should all get some glasses they are missing some good games. :blaugh:

[amk714]

The White Sox must be giving great blow j*bs to the umpires before the games start. Who in their right mind thought that Jermaine Dye got hit by that pitch? I mean if it weren't for all these calls going for them they probably would have been eliminated a round earlier. The umpires owe it to MLB and the fans of MLB to get these calls right. I mean I know they are human but how in the world can you say a man got hit on the forearm and he didn't even say ouch? I mean the pitch was a 92 MPH fastball. If he got hit your would think he would say ouch and drop the bat and show some sort of pain. I think even Dye was surprised he was being awarded first base. The umps have to do a better job. :disgust: :sowrong:

There's no doubt the home plate umpire was wrong in that instance, and if I were an Astros fan I would be just as pissed as I was when Doug Eddings ruled that Chicago catcher A.J. Pierzynski was safe in Game 2 of the ALCS after appearing to call him out. Even so, we don't know what would've happened if the right call had been made. The White Sox have had some lucky breaks, but they are also a great team. Their pitching, hitting, and defense has been excellent, as has Houston's. I don't see any conspiracy here, and this is a diehard Angels fan talking. Sorry to disagree with you but that's my two cents, or whatever the hell my opinion's worth.

[ticklingfeet4fu]

There's no doubt the home plate umpire was wrong in that instance, and if I were an Astros fan I would be just as pissed as I was when Doug Eddings ruled that Chicago catcher A.J. Pierzynski was safe in Game 2 of the ALCS after appearing to call him out. Even so, we don't know what would've happened if the right call had been made. The White Sox have had some lucky breaks, but they are also a great team. Their pitching, hitting, and defense has been excellent, as has Houston's. I don't see any conspiracy here, and this is a diehard Angels fan talking. Sorry to disagree with you but that's my two cents, or whatever the hell my opinion's worth.Momentum swung clearly in the favor of the White Sox in the Eddings game and in last night's game. The Angels were thinking we have to bat and the pitcher and fielders were all headed if not already in the dugout. In that game clearly they were thinking tenth inning and not concentrating on pitch selection. Heck they let the wiining run steal second without even a throw. That tells you that their minds were thinking about being off the field and not focusing on what was going on the field. Is that an excuse ... maybe but when you go to the dugout you focus on the at-bats and suddenly they were told that the third out wasn't recorded when in fact it was. So now they go back on the field annoyed and upset. Were the White Sox upset? They talk about game one in that series when a play went against them but the bottomline is it would not have changed the outcome of the game. This clearly did.
Last night, clearly that ball hits off the bat. There was no disputing it. Except in the mind of the home plate umpire. If that is a foul ball and he gets Dye to ground out the game is still 4-2. Then Konerko comes up in the 8th with bases empty. He can hit the ball from Chicago to Anaheim and he is still going to get credit for a solo homerun. The umpires have imposed their will on the play-offs and have impacted it to the point where Houston has no prayer in this series. That is not fair to the Astros. As it was not fair to the Angels. Now I do keep in mind the Angels benefited from a call in game 5 against the Yankees that allowed them to advance. And that was Joe West who made that horrible call. They say it all evens out. I like to know when another team is going to start benefitting from the calls made by the umpires. I think the White Sox have gotten enough calls go their way.

[CaptainQuantum]

If you were watching the game last night, did you notice that the announcers were talking about the last time Brad Lidge came in to a game, he gave up the homer to Pujols in Houston.

Announcer 1: I wonder if Lidge still has a bad taste in his mouth after giving up that homer to Pujols.
Announcer 2: I don't think that taste was ever there.

Next pitch, Scott Podsednik hits a homer off of Lidge. OWNED! :jester:

[natural tickler]

No self-respecting Cubs fan would ever root on the White Sox. Regardless of their reasons. That would be like Boston rooting on the Yankees. But if you want to be a trader that is your business. But please spare us next season when you tell us you are a Cubs fan because you are not. That is like saying Milagros is a Giants fan. He doesn't root for the Giants to EVER win a World Series. No matter what. So from now on you are a trader to ALL Cubs and National League Fans.


First of all, let's get something straight. You might know baseball very well, but you do not KNOW Chicago. I can speak because not only do I live here, but I have LIVED Chicago baseball, felt the emotions, absorbed the disappointment, and even now, as I am WEARING my Cubs hat with pride, I will eat, sleep, breathe, shit Cubbie blue. I am a Cubbie fan to my bone marrow. Now, you being from New York, you know New York. You do not know Chicago. So quit trying to pretend you do. And secondly if you are trying to call someone a traitor, at least spell it right. And thirdly, even if it is the Sox winning, the city of Chicago has a title. That is something New York won't have for awhile. You worry about your Mets, I will worry about my team.

And as far as Tribune not spending money, well, the Mets have spent money for years, do they have any titles to hang their hat on?? No, they don't. Capt. Quantum explained it well. Maybe this will get the organization to get their acts together. For Cubs Nation, we can only hope it will

And last but not least, (and take this any way you wish) Who in the bluest of blue hells are you to speak for any Cubs fan, or any National League fans?? Who in the hell ever make you their spokesman?? I don't recall Tribune ever hiring you as a mouthpiece. Save your labels for your underacheiving Mets

[amk714]

If you were watching the game last night, did you notice that the announcers were talking about the last time Brad Lidge came in to a game, he gave up the homer to Pujols in Houston.

Announcer 1: I wonder if Lidge still has a bad taste in his mouth after giving up that homer to Pujols.
Announcer 2: I don't think that taste was ever there.

Next pitch, Scott Podsednik hits a homer off of Lidge. OWNED! :jester:

If Brad Lidge keeps this up, he'll be traded after the World Series is over. :sowrong:

[milagros317]

Giving up walk off home runs in the post season will get you traded, indeed.

[ticklingfeet4fu]

First of all, let's get something straight. You might know baseball very well, but you do not KNOW Chicago. I can speak because not only do I live here, but I have LIVED Chicago baseball, felt the emotions, absorbed the disappointment, and even now, as I am WEARING my Cubs hat with pride, I will eat, sleep, breathe, shit Cubbie blue. I am a Cubbie fan to my bone marrow. Now, you being from New York, you know New York. You do not know Chicago. So quit trying to pretend you do. And secondly if you are trying to call someone a traitor, at least spell it right. And thirdly, even if it is the Sox winning, the city of Chicago has a title. That is something New York won't have for awhile. You worry about your Mets, I will worry about my team.

And as far as Tribune not spending money, well, the Mets have spent money for years, do they have any titles to hang their hat on?? No, they don't. Capt. Quantum explained it well. Maybe this will get the organization to get their acts together. For Cubs Nation, we can only hope it will

And last but not least, (and take this any way you wish) Who in the bluest of blue hells are you to speak for any Cubs fan, or any National League fans?? Who in the hell ever make you their spokesman?? I don't recall Tribune ever hiring you as a mouthpiece. Save your labels for your underacheiving MetsI have family who live in Chicago who were Cubs fans before you were an itch in Daddy's jock and they are very close to me. You don't have to agree with me. Quite frankly, don't care if you do or don't. The traitor comment was really funny. I actually thought about how I spelled it after you said it. Well stated Natural. I should learn to spell. But what the heck, what do you expect from a guy who rides the short bus and is a Mets fan. Nothing. So I did right by it.:p You talk about Cubs Nation ( when did they start that? ). That is more like cursed nation there buddy. 2006 is coming though. And you can make it 98 years at the end of next season. :wavingguy :jester:

P.S. Don't be so testy. It is all in fun until the new season starts and you start up with your Cubs rehab program. :rolleyes: :jester:

[amk714]

Let's move on. Game 3 features another pitching duel. Roy Oswalt will start for the Astros and Jon Garland will be on the mound for the White Sox. Houston, we have liftoff! Will the Astros crash and burn, or will they complete their mission successfully? Brad Lidge might be able to answer that question. I'm glad I'm not in his shoes! Especially since I can't pitch. :D

[milagros317]

Lige will remember that walk off HR yesterday forever, just as Eckersley remembers Kirk Gibson's. :D

[CaptainQuantum]

milagros, I think I read somewhere that the Cardinals are 2nd to the Yankees in number of World Series won. I would have thought it would be the Dodgers.

[amk714]

You're right, CQ. The Yankees have won the WS 26 times, the Cards nine, and the Dodgers have won six, one in Brooklyn and five in L.A. http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/history/postseason/mlb_ws.jsp?feature=club_champs

[milagros317]

Alas, the Dodgers have won only 6 World Series and the Cardinals have won 9.

(Dodgers: 1955, 1959, 1963, 1965, 1981, 1988. I watched them all, on television, that is.)

[ticklingfeet4fu]

milagros, I think I read somewhere that the Cardinals are 2nd to the Yankees in number of World Series won. I would have thought it would be the Dodgers.
The Dodgers weren't always good. They made the World Series in 1916 and 1920 and lost them. The Dodgers became a World Series contender in the 1940's and 1950's when the Dodgers and Yankees squared off many a post-season. The Dodgers started to win World Titles in the 1960's ( they did win one in Brooklyn in 1955. ) They Dodgers have always been good. The Cardinals started win World Titles back when they beat the Yankees in 1926. The Cardinals "Gashouse Gang" won a title in 1934 and so it went for the Cardinals. The Cardinals last title came in 1982 when they beat the Milwaukee Brewers ( then of the American League ) in the World Series. The Cardinals then lost the World Series in 1985 to the KC Royals, 1987 to the Minnesota Twins and then lost last season to the upstart Boston Red Sox. Let it be known along the way, the Cardinals had beaten the Red Sox in 1946 and 1967 ( '67 was consider by many in New England the "Impossible Dream" season.) There is the short history lesson. :D

[milagros317]

The golden age of Dodger baseball was 1947 to 1966. During those 20 seasons, they won 4 World Series and 10 NL pennants.

Not coincidently, that era began with Jackie Robinson's rookie year, and ended with the retirement of Sandy Koufax.

[amk714]

I wish I had been alive during the golden years of Dodger baseball. :( I remember the 1988 World Series win only because of Kirk Gibson (I didn't really care about sports until a few years later) and the fact that it was the same year the Los Angeles Lakers repeated as NBA champions (they're the team I've followed the longest). :D

[CaptainQuantum]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-worldseries&prov=ap&type=lgns for full article

While the roof was retracted for batting practice, the Astros would rather have it shut tight Tuesday, when the state of Texas hosts a World Series game for the first time.

In yet another postseason series where umpires' calls have been debated, the roof was just as hot a topic.

The Astros were 36-17 at home when it was closed during the regular season, 15-11 when it was rolled back and 2-0 in games that began indoors and finished in fresh air.

During the regular season, the Astros pick their environment. But during the postseason, the commissioner's office makes that call.

Jimmie Lee Solomon, executive vice president of baseball operations in the commissioner's office, was to decide Tuesday, when the forecast called for clear skies with a temperature in the low 60s.

[natural tickler]

I have family who live in Chicago who were Cubs fans before you were an itch in Daddy's jock and they are very close to me. You don't have to agree with me. Quite frankly, don't care if you do or don't. The traitor comment was really funny. I actually thought about how I spelled it after you said it. Well stated Natural. I should learn to spell. But what the heck, what do you expect from a guy who rides the short bus and is a Mets fan. Nothing. So I did right by it.:p You talk about Cubs Nation ( when did they start that? ). That is more like cursed nation there buddy. 2006 is coming though. And you can make it 98 years at the end of next season. :wavingguy :jester:

P.S. Don't be so testy. It is all in fun until the new season starts and you start up with your Cubs rehab program. :rolleyes: :jester:


I am not testy, buddy. I know its all in fun, but when I heard the word 'traitor' it got to me. No harm done. But my friend, next year will be 3 for 3 in curses eliminated, because it will be our turn. The heat on management will be so intense, that they have to do something, or risk losing fan base, which will mean millions of dollars lost, affecting bottom line, and you know Tribune can't afford that.

And a disclaimer to all you conspiracy theorists:

DISCLAIMER: There is no proof that all the calls going the Sox way did anything to affect outcome. Those teams could have gotten over it and pitched better and got out of their own messes. The Sox just took advantage of all the breaks they got and capitalized. Believe me, it will even out. It's just a matter of who can cash in and the Sox did just that

[CaptainQuantum]

I hope you're right about the Cubs for my dad's sake, natural. But on the other hand, Cub fans seem to have a reputation for not giving a shit enough to stop going to games when the Cubs suck. They're there to hang out and get shitfaced, as I said earlier. For the recent success of the White Sox to benefit Cub fans, they have to give a shit enough to take their business elsewhere if the Tribune continues to put out a mediocre product. One thing about New York: they don't suffer losing sports teams for long. The Cubs would've gotten laughed out of NYC a long time ago.

[natural tickler]

That's true, Capt. I believe its time, because the Tribune company will do something when one of two thing happen

1)the White Sox win one before the Cubs do, which is two games from happening

or

2)the fans stop coming, which will happen if they don't produce within the next two years

I know the fans like to get shitfaced, but as a season ticket holder, I also listen to conversations, and the feeling is they are tired of coming out for 3 hrs a day to watch a team going nowhere. Believe me, an empty Wrigley Field with numbers like the Expos had before leaving is the one thing they fear.

[milagros317]

I'm all ready to watch game 3 tonight. I just the umpires don't do anything grossly stupid again. :D

[amk714]

The pre-game show on my FOX station said the roof would not be closed at Minute Maid Park. Yet another disadvantage to the Astros.

[milagros317]

At least there is a roof in case of rain. They played in cold, wet conditons in Chicago. :(

[amk714]

It should be up to the home team.

[milagros317]

Yes, as long the conditions are the same for both teams (no changes between half innings) the home team should make the decision before the game begins, based on the weather report.

[ticklingfeet4fu]

I am not testy, buddy. I know its all in fun, but when I heard the word 'traitor' it got to me. No harm done. But my friend, next year will be 3 for 3 in curses eliminated, because it will be our turn. The heat on management will be so intense, that they have to do something, or risk losing fan base, which will mean millions of dollars lost, affecting bottom line, and you know Tribune can't afford that.

And a disclaimer to all you conspiracy theorists:

DISCLAIMER: There is no proof that all the calls going the Sox way did anything to affect outcome. Those teams could have gotten over it and pitched better and got out of their own messes. The Sox just took advantage of all the breaks they got and capitalized. Believe me, it will even out. It's just a matter of who can cash in and the Sox did just thatTheir own messes??? You mean messes created by poor umpiring. Their is a HUGE difference between your own messes and messes created by other things. Jermaine Dye admitted that the ball never hit him that it hit the bat. Did the Astros put Dye on base or was that the umpire? I mean it is possible I got something in my eye when Dye was awarded first base. :eek:

[milagros317]

Meanwhile, the Astros lead 1-0 after one inning.

[ticklingfeet4fu]

Meanwhile, the Astros lead 1-0 after one inning.This is good. I want the Astros to win by at least a 6-1 count. Just to make this a series and take some momentum back. A well umpired game would not hurt either. :D

[milagros317]

With Jerry Layne behind the plate, I don't expect a well-umpired game. :p

[ticklingfeet4fu]

Game 3 of the World Series is over. The game took 5 hours and 41 minutes.( The longest game by time in the history of the World Series. ) The game played out in 14 innings.( Tying the longest game in World Series history by innings.) Geoff Blum hit a 2 out homerun to give the White Sox a 6-5 lead and they would go on to win this game 7-5. The White Sox are now just 27 out away from their 1st World Series title since 1917 ( 88 years ago ). History tells us that only once has a team in baseball history gotten off the deck after being down 3-0. The Boston Red Sox did it one year ago as the were trailing the ALCS 3-0 and came back to beat the New York Yankees 4 games to 3. The Astros will need a miracle to do that. Later tonight it is Brandon Backe for the Astros trying to extend the season one more game going up against veteran righty Freddie Garcia. The White Sox in a GREAT GAME beat to Astros 7-5 to go up 3-zip on the 'Stros.

[amk714]

What a classic that game was. For once the umpiring didn't affect the game all that much, except for a home run hit by Astro Jason Lane that might not have been one, as shown on the replay, but it was so close to the yellow line that the call was understandable. Roy Oswalt didn't have his usual stuff for Houston and gave up five runs to the White Sox in a 46-pitch fifth inning after his team had built a 4-0 lead. The game was so long Mark Buehrle, who started and won the last game for Chicago, had to come in to save the game for his team. What a win for the Sox and a heartbreak for the Astros, who stranded 15 runners. One other note: Geoff Blum used to be an Astro. Ironic, isn't it? The Chicago White Sox won this one fair and square. I don't think this World Series is going back to the Windy City.

P.S. Thanks for posting all the important stuff, ticklingfeet4u. :D

[ticklingfeet4fu]

What a classic that game was. For once the umpiring didn't affect the game all that much, except for a home run hit by Astro Jason Lane that might not have been one, as shown on the replay, but it was so close to the yellow line that the call was understandable. Roy Oswalt didn't have his usual stuff for Houston and gave up five runs to the White Sox in a 46-pitch fifth inning after his team had built a 4-0 lead. The game was so long Mark Buehrle, who started and won the last game for Chicago, had to come in to save the game for his team. What a win for the Sox and a heartbreak for the Astros, who stranded 15 runners. One other note: Geoff Blum used to be an Astro. Ironic, isn't it? The Chicago White Sox won this one fair and square. I don't think this World Series is going back to the Windy City.

P.S. Thanks for posting all the important stuff, ticklingfeet4u. :DIt was an absolute classic. You are right about that. I can forgive a bad call when you have to make the call from 250 feet away. It is the one right under your nose that you get wrong that bothers me. The umpires really did a good job last night and worked really hard. There were no controversal calls. The home plate umpire Jerry Layne did a very good job for the most part. It was a really good game by everyone but the Astros. For the second straight game the Astros had a lead and could not hold it. They lead this game at one point 4-0 before letting it slip away. The Astros did not get a hit after the 8th inning though they had many chance to win the game in extra innings as White Sox relievers kept walking batters throughout the contest. Tonight the White Sox look to close it out and Houston looks to live one more game. It is the White Sox and Astros. It's game four and it comes up in 6 hours.

[CaptainQuantum]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Ama2nkZ6Uf4xO2lZIcfTeAMRvLYF?slug=dw-whitesox102605&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Frozen moment

By Dan Wetzel, Yahoo! Sports
October 26, 2005

HOUSTON – By the time the Houston Astros kept choking with the winning run in scoring position, taking third strikes in extra innings and walking in insurance runs in the most must-win game in franchise history, the temperature had fallen all the way to a crisp 48 degrees in Texas.

So maybe they really were too cold to play. Of course, who doesn't like their whine slightly chilled?

The Chicago White Sox just play, no matter the conditions, no matter the situation, no matter the history. Whether Minute Maid Park's roof is open or closed, there's a million-man march full of walks or there are rainy, windy or perfect full-moon conditions, it doesn't matter.

Down four against Houston ace Roy Oswalt, the White Sox dug deep and sent 11 batters to the plate to score five runs in the fifth inning. They had no business lasting until the 14th inning, but they got a game-winning dinger from Geoff Blum, who just happened to play the hero in his first World Series at-bat.

The Astros? They spent the pregame press conferences cursing Bud Selig for making them open up the roof at Minute Maid, then ended up rolling over dead in the late innings.

Chicago 7, Houston 5 in 14 interminable innings. This World Series is all over, but not the Astros' crying. After capturing the longest game in Series history (five hours, 41 minutes), the White Sox take a commanding 3-0 lead into Wednesday's Game 4, where the Minute Maid roof promises to be open again.

"They're trying to take the home-field advantage from us," pouted outfielder Lance Berkman before the game, when word came down from up above that the stars at night would be big and bright.

"It's almost like a road game for us now," first baseman Mike Lamb claimed.

"I don't care," shrugged White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen. "It is going to be open or closed."

Gee, wonder which team was more mentally ready to play?

Teams take emotional cues from their manager. The fact that Phil Garner allowed his players to let something as silly as fresh air seep into their consciousness in a game of such magnitude is stunning.

It seemed to even affect the vaunted Houston fans, who mostly sat on their chilly hands throughout the late innings offering little to no support.

Maybe this entire roof thing was nothing. Or maybe it was a sign of everything that is separating these mostly evenly matched teams.

It takes mental toughness as much as physical might to be a champion. The funny thing is, Houston got this far by getting tough when the games and the pressure became tight. But in this game, the Astros showed little fight, following a game-tying, eighth-inning rally with inning after inning of punchless at-bats.

"This is embarrassing," Garner said. "That's some pretty poor hitting, absolute rotten hitting. I'm really ticked off. I've got lots of emotion."

At least someone was showing some. The Astros didn't so much battle in extra innings as they survived.

They didn't get a single hit after the eighth inning. Not one. They managed a meager eight hits over 14 innings of play. If it weren't for wild White Sox relievers – who kept generously walking and beaning Houston's hitters – the Astros never would have gotten anyone on base.

The fact the White Sox were trying hard to lose this game didn't matter, either. ("Our execution was real poor today," Guillen said.)

Houston left a pathetic 10 potential game-winning runners on base and 12 overall from the eighth inning on. Over the course of the night, the Astros stranded a mind-blowing 15 guys, more than an episode of "Lost." In the late innings, with winning runs on base, they struck out looking three separate times.

Just to repeat, this was extra innings of the World stinkin' Series. Not exactly the time to take a called third strike.

"We had every chance in the world to win the ball game," Garner snapped.

In a game they had to have in a big way, the Astros came up small over and over. Rather than seize this thing like a champion, they played not to lose.

As bad as Chicago was, eventually someone stepped up to be the difference maker. That it was the lightly used 32-year-old Blum who hit the winning home run is just perfect White Sox style.

"It surprised me because the kid hadn't played in two months," Guillen said.

Now Chicago is one game from sweeping its way to its first World Series title in 88 years and equaling the 1999 New York Yankees as the only team to complete the postseason with just one loss in the wild-card era.

The White Sox have won 10 of 11 postseason games, including seven straight, and they have done it by shrugging off adversity, deficits, difficulties and anything else you could throw at them. In a sure reflection of their manager, they never complain and they never seem to get nervous.

The White Sox just play. The Astros, once again, just watched.

Perhaps all the roof talk was just talk. Perhaps not. But as a rule, champions don't let weather, questionable calls and outside factors affect them.

They just play. They just win. They just become champions.

So chill the whine, Houston. Chicago can chill the champagne.

[milagros317]

I confess that I fell asleep after the 10th inning during the commercials. When I woke up, it was 5am and the game was over.

[amk714]

I've already posted in the "Congrats to the White Sox" thread in General Discussion, so I'll talk more about Game 4 here. Both pitchers were on tonight, but the Astros couldn't score anyone again. Meanwhile, poor Brad Lidge gives up yet another run, courtesy of a hit by Jermaine Dye, the MVP winner. And those last two plays by Juan Uribe to get the final two outs were awesome. Congrats to Chicago for winning their first WS since 1917, and to Houston for making it this far. :)

[ticklingfeet4fu]

I've already posted in the "Congrats to the White Sox" thread in General Discussion, so I'll talk more about Game 4 here. Both pitchers were on tonight, but the Astros couldn't score anyone again. Meanwhile, poor Brad Lidge gives up yet another run, courtesy of a hit by Jermaine Dye, the MVP winner. And those last two plays by Juan Uribe to get the final two outs were awesome. Congrats to Chicago for winning their first WS since 1917, and to Houston for making it this far. :)Poor Brad Lidge? I would say poor Brandon Backe. He poured his heart out into that game. That is a GREAT clutch performance on his part and Lidge and Ensberg and Everett and the rest of the Astros let him down. I thought he should have went out there in the 8th inning myself. That is not even a 2nd guess. I felt after game 2 and 3 were lost by the bullpen I would have gone with Backe until I just couldn't no more. I know sending up Bagwell in the minds of many is the thing to do but since he hasn't homered since April 29th what would change now. You were in a pitchers duel and you know you haven't been scoring runs and your bullpen had pitched 8 innings last night. I would have stay with my starter and won or lost the game with him. Lidge has proven he does not belong in the class of Mariano Riveria ( whom many have compared him to ). He pitched poorly in game 5 NLCS and throughout this World Series ( except for an inning and a 1/3 in game 3 where he struck out 3 batters ). White Sox played their hearts out and deserved to win. Brandon Backe pitched his heart out too and also deserved to win. Final score from Houston: Chicago White Sox 1 - Houston Astros 0. The Chicago White Sox are the 2005 World Series Champions in a four game sweep of the Houston Astros. See all of you baseball fans again in March. Baseball season is official over. :sadcry: :cry1: :dropatear :(

[amk714]

Actually I agree with you. Brandon Backe pitched great and his team wasted the opportunity. If I were an Astros fan I wouldn't have any sympathy for Brad Lidge, but he's not part of my team so I really don't care about him. Morgan Ensberg was so inconsistent with his stance at the plate. I don't know why no one worked with him to correct it. The bottom line is, Chicago executed and Houston didn't, and yes, Lidge is no Mariano Rivera. Hell, he isn't even Bobby Jenks! Finally, I don't know why Phil Garner decided to take out Backe, since Bagwell hasn't been hitting well, but it was a big mistake that may have cost the Astros a chance at another game. The White Sox embarrassed the opposition and went 11-1 during the postseason, but the Astros had plenty of chances to win and couldn't capitalize. It's too bad the baseball season is over, but I'm a fan of other sports also, so I'll watch them instead. :D

[milagros317]

See all of you baseball fans again in March. Baseball season is official over. :sadcry: :cry1: :dropatear :(

Yes, it is very sad. :( :sadcry: :(

[amk714]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AqtrX16ebUlgDWSbkEHx7R4RvLYF?slug=ap-worldseries-ratings&prov=ap&type=lgns

World Series is lowest-rated ever
October 27, 2005

NEW YORK (AP) -- The Chicago White Sox's first world championship in 88 years was also the lowest-rated World Series ever.

Chicago's four-game sweep of the Houston Astros averaged an 11.1 national rating with a 19 share on Fox. That's down about 7 percent from the previous low, an 11.9 with a 20 share for the 2002 World Series between the Anaheim Angels and the San Francisco Giants.

While the 2002 World Series, which went seven games, rated higher overall, it was only averaging an 11.0 through four games.

ADVERTISEMENT
This year was a drop of almost 30 percent from last year's series, in which the Boston Red Sox swept the St. Louis Cardinals for their first title in 86 years. That had a 15.8 rating with a 25 share.

Wednesday night's 1-0 Chicago win had a 13.0 preliminary national rating with a 21 share. It was the highest-rated prime-time show on Fox since the final of ``American Idol'' in May, but still not enough to save the series from being the lowest-rated.

Despite rating so low in comparison to other World Series, the four games of this series were each the highest rated prime-time network programs on their respective nights.

[milagros317]

Some people on the east coast are reluctant to watch because the games have a good chance of going past midnight.

[amk714]

That's true. The White Sox and the Astros also don't appeal to as many fans as do teams like the Red Sox or the Yankees. Plus, this WS was a sweep, so although the games were close, there wasn't as much drama as there would've been had it gone six or seven, or even five, games. But at least it replaced the 2002 WS (which the Angels won) as the lowest-rated ever. :D

[milagros317]

I will never forget the 2002 Angels snatching victory from the hated jints. :p :p :p

May the fans of the hated jints always remember that their team led the World Series 3 games to 2, and had a 5-0 lead in game 6, only to lose it all to the Angels. :D :D :D

[amk714]

That is my favorite World Series. The Angels coming from behind to win it all (at Anaheim Stadium, no less), and Barry Bonds coming up empty? Priceless. :D

[milagros317]

My favorite World Series is 1955, of course. :D

[leafstk]

Favorite WS? Gotta be Joe Carter's walk-off homer in Game 6 to win it all against the Phillies in '93 :D BEDLAM IN TORONTO!!! :woot:

Alas, hasn't been the same round here since :ranty:

[amk714]

My favorite World Series is 1955, of course. :D

Of course, it's the only WS in which the Brooklyn Dodgers won a title. :D

[amk714]

Favorite WS? Gotta be Joe Carter's walk-off homer in Game 6 to win it all against the Phillies in '93 :D BEDLAM IN TORONTO!!! :woot:

Alas, hasn't been the same round here since :ranty:

True story: I was watching TV that day, just channel surfing, and I happened to come across that game. I wasn't into baseball that much at the time, but for some reason I decided to put down the remote, maybe because it was the World Series. I don't remember when I tuned in, but it must've been at almost the end of the game, because the next thing I see is Joe hitting that homer! The fans went crazy. What a great baseball moment for Toronto, back-to-back championships! And look what's happened to the Blue Jays since then. :p

[CaptainQuantum]

Although I don't remember much of it, my favorite World Series is probably 1982, St Louis defeats Milwaukee (then in the AL) in 7 games. I remember it as being a good series, power vs speed. But mainly its my favorite because it was the 1st World Series I ever watched. I was 9 years old and had never paid much attention to baseball before. And I get nostalgic about stuff like that :D

But this years World Series has to be my 2nd favorite. Not only cause I'm in Chicago, but also because the White Sox really put on a great show. They showed themselves to be not just a good team in a bad division, as I started to think of them when Cleveland almost caught them late in the season. They showed themselves to be a great team.

As far as the World Series tv ratings: if that great series between the Angels and Milagros's hated jints was the lowest rated series ever until now, well that tells you something. I think a lot of fans lose interest in baseball in the post season if their team isn't in it. And everybody wanted to see last year if the Red Sox would find a way to blow it and reinforce the superstition of a "curse". Same thing will happen if the Cubs ever make the World Series. Ratings will be through the roof. In Chicago you never heard anything about the White Sox being cursed. They were just bad. But I think even in a short 4 game sweep, people who didn't watch missed some great baseball this year.

[natural tickler]

Baseball is over, gents, so let's bury this thread until March, then revive it again

[CaptainQuantum]

Baseball is over, gents, so let's bury this thread until March, then revive it again

Okay, is there a Football Only thread? :D

[natural tickler]

Yeah, its in the General Discussion under the title NFL season

[milagros317]

Baseball is over, gents, so let's bury this thread until March, then revive it again

No, it will not be buried. We have to talk about managers and coaches being hired and fired, trades being made, free agents being signed, and contracts being negotiated. :p

[amk714]

Speaking of free agents, here's a column by Dan Wetzel at Yahoo! that says the White Sox should re-sign Paul Konerko: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AqeJzyG67BZHpY.q2Penx7ARvLYF?slug=dw-konerko102805&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

If the people in Chicago's organization are smart they'll at least try, but I'd love for him to come to the Angels. :D

[milagros317]

The Dodgers never should have traded Paul Konerko. :(

[amk714]

I didn't know the Dodgers traded him. :sowrong:

[milagros317]

Yes, he was a September call-up for the Dodgers in 1997, played for the Dodgers in the beginning of the 1998 season, and was traded to the Reds during that season, a big mistake. :( :(

[amk714]

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AlsBnacX0PcOHb5FDaE5nNcRvLYF?slug=ap-dodgers-gmfired&prov=ap&type=lgns

Mila, and other Dodgers fans, did you see this coming? :confused:

[CaptainQuantum]

He had been an assistant to Oakland GM Billy Beane since 1998 when he was hired by McCourt at age 31. DePodesta worked for the Cleveland Indians for three years before joining the A's.

Beane, under tight payrolls restrictions in Oakland, lead the revolutionary change in player evaluation that valued statistics over gut instincts. Author Michael Lewis wrote the 1984 bestseller ``Moneyball'' about Beane's approach to the game, which was adapted by DePodesta.

The technique has been criticized for underestimating the importance of team chemistry.

I always thought players were evaluated by their stats first and foremost. What good is a bunch of guys in a clubhouse who get along great if the team sucks? :confused:

[amk714]

CQ, I'm sure other baseball (and other sports) fans know more about that than I do, but I think both stats and team chemistry play equal parts in any sport as to how successful a team is. What I'd like to know is what Dodgers fans think about this news. But thanks for your input.

[milagros317]

While I agree with his philosophy that stats are far more important than the elusive thing called "chemistry", I am glad that DePodesta was fired. In 2004, he decided to dismantle a first place team because it wasn't his, because the players had been acquired by his predesessor. It is OK to have that idea, if you can actually acquire better talent. BUT: He failed to sign free agents or make trades over the winter of 2004/2005 that solved the Dodgers' biggest needs, starting pitching and a slugging first baseman.

I don't blame him for the injuries that the Dodgers suffered in 2005. I do blame him for not getting better starting pitchers, and for not getting a better first baseman than Choi.

I officially announce my availability for the job of General Manager of the Dodgers. :p

[CaptainQuantum]

My dad said he heard this free agent market is gonna be pretty weak. Paul Konerko is gonna be the best player out of the bunch he said.

[amk714]

I officially announce my availability for the job of General Manager of the Dodgers. :p

If the people in the Dodgers organization are smart, they'll seek you out. :D

[milagros317]

Thank you for your support, AMK. :D :D

[amk714]

You're welcome! It's obvious you know a lot about baseball, so you're the right person for the job. :D

[ticklingfeet4fu]

A trade between the Padres and the Nationals. Vinny Castilla a third basemen goes to San Diego and Brian Lawrence a right handed starting pitcher goes to Washington. My opinion is that the Nationals got the better end of this deal. I think Lawrence has a live arm while Castilla is on the down-side of his career.

[amk714]

Good news about Mike Scioscia, the Angels coach: his contract's been extended through 2009, with a club option for 2010: :D http://losangeles.angels.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051104&content_id=1264856&vkey=news_ana&fext=.jsp&c_id=ana

[milagros317]

I am glad for Mike Scioscia. :D

[ticklingfeet4fu]

Good news about Mike Scioscia, the Angels coach: his contract's been extended through 2009, with a club option for 2010: :D http://losangeles.angels.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051104&content_id=1264856&vkey=news_ana&fext=.jsp&c_id=anaThat is a great move by the Angels. He is an excellent manager and is well deserving of a contract extension. Scioscia has a shot to be a GREAT manager. I think he will finish career with over 2000 managerial wins. And probably get a couple of more World Series rings as well. I think he is that good. I think the reason he is so good - he is a Dodger.

[milagros317]

I can't argue with that last point, he will always be a 1988 World Champion Dodger to me. :D