Robace252
08-22-2005, 12:50 PM
National Geographic 9/11 special..YOU MUST WATCH!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I watched the first part of the National Geographic 9/11 docmentary and I must say I have learned SOO much, and I hope all of you watch it as well as learn from it. It is completely non-biased (so the libs and conserv's cant complain) and absolutely the most factual thing Ive ever seen on Al-Queda and the events leading up to 9/11.
For those of you that do not have the national geographic channel or did not watch here is what I found most interesting and a few things I didnt even know.
Everything I state here is 100% fact, not opinion or speculation, facts from watching the national geographic documentary (which puts Micheal Moores 9/11 crapumentry to shame) here is the weblink to look for yourselves..
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/channel/inside911/
They will be reshowing both parts of the special tonight starting a 7pm EST, part one 7pm-9pm est, part 2 9pm-11pm est.
After the points from the special I learned I will add my own thoughts...
1. Osama Bin Laden became not angry at the west for the reasons we were led to believe by our media. He became angry and throughly embarassed when he a "War Hero" of the afghan war and a Saudi Royal native was passed over by the Saudi govt. to protect the nation from Sadamm Hussein after Iraq invaded Kuwait. He went to the Saudi Govt. and told them he would regather his forces and defend Saudi Arabia from Iraq and was told no that the Saudi's prefered the US Military to defend them.
**opinion** I will say this does 2 things for me...a)it definatley shows me there was no Al-queda link to 9/11 unless part 2 tonight of the special shows me diffrent. I will wait until then to make a 100% decision but to me it shows there was no link. I never thought before that there was but this just proved it to me. Im not behind the war in Iraq because of 9/11 but because I perfer a war fought on a foregin soil rather than in my backyard, and terrorist now enter Iraq on a daily basis. And b) it shows me that not only is Bin Laden angry with the west, but his own people for snubbing him. The male ego is a fragile thing, think of Napeleon, Hitler, etc., when a madman has a reason to be angry he is capable of undescribeable horrors.
2. Our own laws made to protect us, failed us on and up to 9/11. Several times the FBI had information on Atta, and several other hijackers and could not follow up because they had valid US Visas. Even with strong evidence they could not pursue for fear of groups like the ACLU and liberal watchdogs. The FAA even had information but could not follow up because of our laws being used against us.
**opinion** It is inconceiveable for me to believe that this nation as great as it is could be so decieved by our own government and officals. Most of this information I saw and was supported by facts on this special I have never heard before now. Even reading the 9/11 commission most of the main facts were so buried that most of us (including me) missed it. It is indeed an awful thing to think that fear of the ACLU and such things prevented our officals that are supposed to secure us from simply following up and asking questions. That is the problem in this war. Where do we need to draw the line between liberty and death? In retrospect Im sure we all now wish those agents had followed up on reports, but why now are we still fighting over provisions in the "Patroit Act" that would close these loopholes and allow another 9/11 in this country.
3. Both Clinton and Bush had knowledge of things (non-specific) before 9/11. Clinton had 2 chances to either kill or capture Bin Laden, knowing that Bin Laden was behind attacks on American's , but did not do so because of his fears of children living near/in the compound Bin Laden was in and also was fearful of a Muslim backlash against the US for killing a Saudi Royal, though most middle eastern countries including the Tailban at the time meeting with a US Offical told the Clinton Administration that if the US did kill Bin Laden with a Cruise missle or went in to get him there was little they could do to stop us. We knew of the location 2 times, had the plan, we ready to strike when the politics got involved and the Clinton Administration scrapped the mission. All terrorist attacks on the USS Cole, 1st trade center bombing, embassies attacked happened on Clinton's watch and he only launched crusie missle attacks back once, during the Lewinski scandal. (I might have misunderstood the number of times he attacked but I only remember this one from the special they pointed it out clearly) Clinton had many times heard the reports of Bin Laden, including breifings from his staff and even hearing about the possible use of airliners, he did however order a tighting of security on US airports ( I never heard of this when I was around) but lifted the security tightening prior to 2001 when Bush took office. President Bush in a memo prior to 9/11 was given a warning of possible Al-Queda attacks in the US, but he determined that the intelligence was not strong enough or had enough information to act on the memo. I wish the special had said more and I was a little dissapointed by them mentioning it only in this one context, but then again it was the only time Bush was informed, by a memo.
**opinion**This shows the failure of our leaders to react to intelligence prior to 9/11. Do you think maybe this is why Bush acted on bad intelligence on Iraq without investigating?? Maybe he felt that if he did act on the memo prior to 9/11 he could have stopped it, so he acted on bad intell on Iraq hoping to head off something that really was never there. I hope now those that dont understand the choices that Presidents have to make is not easy and Im sure even reasonable people will agree that Bush felt terrible loss over 9/11 and thought he was doing the right thing acting on intelligence so quickly on Iraq. On to Clinton's mistakes...I cannot blame Clinton for not wanting civilian casualties on those occasions, I too would have a problem bombing someplace that had a children's playground in the compound, but knowing the terrorists philosphy of sacrificing their own children to do their work and the fact that most the middle east would not have cared if we did kill Bin Laden even with civilian casulties again just shows the diffcult choices our leaders have to make. In retrospect, yes we should have gotten him when we had the chance, but hindsight is 20/20 and there is nothing we can do about that now. Is it sad that we knew there was someone wanting to kill us, kill our children, attack us, but because we are the "Land of the Free" and must hold a "higher" morality than rest of the world at that time we wouldnt act. It stops no one but us, we are bound by our own laws and thoughts in a politically correct world to properly defend ourselves from such attacks then and now. To attack terrorist we have to think like them or we are doomed to repeat the same cycle over and over of doing nothing and then doing too much at once. Our politicans are so swayed by the public, and special interest groups that have NO PLACE in making our policies such as the ACLU, Moveon.org, Christian Coalation, NRA, GOP and DNC thinktanks..they need to get the politics out of the military and let the military do their jobs.
4. Bin Laden wanted a war with the US. After defeating the Soviet Union in Afghanstan with the help of the CIA, his ultimate goal was to get the US into a war on our own soil and to bring the US to his turf so he could beat the US also and then begin his crusade of bringing "Muslim Rule" to the entire world.
He felt a war with the US, and defeating the "mighty UNited States" would show the power of Islam (his brand) and the Muslim Religion (his brand) to the entire world, recruit more follwers and eventually lead to a Jihad to encompass the world with his brand of Islam and kill all non-muslims.
**opnion**OK, he got what he wanted, he got us into a war. But he did not think we would beat him in Afghanstan and overrun the Taliban. He made a huge miscalculation on the Power of the US Military and our people in the begining of the war. He has been forced into hiding where it is diffcult for him to be as effective as he once was. He now must travel hiding in tunnels and using those that show him favor against the west to hide him. Since he lost Afghanstan he needs to hope that the insurgancy in Iraq succeds where he failed, which is why he is sending all his resources and top operatives to Iraq which is why we must stay they course. His misguided thoughts of Islam to rule the world were based on the knowledge that the US would not retaliate as strong as we did, our poor past of reacting during the Clinton Administration led him to believe that we would send a few attacks but not over run the enitre country he needed. I know many of you might not believe this but we must defeat terrorism where ever it exists. Not just where it obovious, but where its even slighty apparent. No one thought to look in our own country before 9/11 for terrorist living among us, but the world is diffrent now and we must act appropately.
**Wrapping up** Lastly I learned a lot last night and hope to learn a lot more. I stongly urge you to watch these specials and make up you own mind using a non-biased look at the events as they happened. I for one am very angry at our goverment officals today and told them so in many emails to my congressmen and other officals I can get an email too. This is very disturbing that this could happen, in this day and age with all the oppurntunities there was to prevent this attack just because of a fear of reprisals from the ACLU and like groups. Personally I feel that I would rather have a few less "liberties" than a thousand less American citizens. That is my opinion and Im sticking to it.
Thanks all, make sure you watch so you can make up your own minds...
And thats my twelve dollars and 2 cents worth
__________________
Im not suffering from insanity..Im enjoying every minute of it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I watched the first part of the National Geographic 9/11 docmentary and I must say I have learned SOO much, and I hope all of you watch it as well as learn from it. It is completely non-biased (so the libs and conserv's cant complain) and absolutely the most factual thing Ive ever seen on Al-Queda and the events leading up to 9/11.
For those of you that do not have the national geographic channel or did not watch here is what I found most interesting and a few things I didnt even know.
Everything I state here is 100% fact, not opinion or speculation, facts from watching the national geographic documentary (which puts Micheal Moores 9/11 crapumentry to shame) here is the weblink to look for yourselves..
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/channel/inside911/
They will be reshowing both parts of the special tonight starting a 7pm EST, part one 7pm-9pm est, part 2 9pm-11pm est.
After the points from the special I learned I will add my own thoughts...
1. Osama Bin Laden became not angry at the west for the reasons we were led to believe by our media. He became angry and throughly embarassed when he a "War Hero" of the afghan war and a Saudi Royal native was passed over by the Saudi govt. to protect the nation from Sadamm Hussein after Iraq invaded Kuwait. He went to the Saudi Govt. and told them he would regather his forces and defend Saudi Arabia from Iraq and was told no that the Saudi's prefered the US Military to defend them.
**opinion** I will say this does 2 things for me...a)it definatley shows me there was no Al-queda link to 9/11 unless part 2 tonight of the special shows me diffrent. I will wait until then to make a 100% decision but to me it shows there was no link. I never thought before that there was but this just proved it to me. Im not behind the war in Iraq because of 9/11 but because I perfer a war fought on a foregin soil rather than in my backyard, and terrorist now enter Iraq on a daily basis. And b) it shows me that not only is Bin Laden angry with the west, but his own people for snubbing him. The male ego is a fragile thing, think of Napeleon, Hitler, etc., when a madman has a reason to be angry he is capable of undescribeable horrors.
2. Our own laws made to protect us, failed us on and up to 9/11. Several times the FBI had information on Atta, and several other hijackers and could not follow up because they had valid US Visas. Even with strong evidence they could not pursue for fear of groups like the ACLU and liberal watchdogs. The FAA even had information but could not follow up because of our laws being used against us.
**opinion** It is inconceiveable for me to believe that this nation as great as it is could be so decieved by our own government and officals. Most of this information I saw and was supported by facts on this special I have never heard before now. Even reading the 9/11 commission most of the main facts were so buried that most of us (including me) missed it. It is indeed an awful thing to think that fear of the ACLU and such things prevented our officals that are supposed to secure us from simply following up and asking questions. That is the problem in this war. Where do we need to draw the line between liberty and death? In retrospect Im sure we all now wish those agents had followed up on reports, but why now are we still fighting over provisions in the "Patroit Act" that would close these loopholes and allow another 9/11 in this country.
3. Both Clinton and Bush had knowledge of things (non-specific) before 9/11. Clinton had 2 chances to either kill or capture Bin Laden, knowing that Bin Laden was behind attacks on American's , but did not do so because of his fears of children living near/in the compound Bin Laden was in and also was fearful of a Muslim backlash against the US for killing a Saudi Royal, though most middle eastern countries including the Tailban at the time meeting with a US Offical told the Clinton Administration that if the US did kill Bin Laden with a Cruise missle or went in to get him there was little they could do to stop us. We knew of the location 2 times, had the plan, we ready to strike when the politics got involved and the Clinton Administration scrapped the mission. All terrorist attacks on the USS Cole, 1st trade center bombing, embassies attacked happened on Clinton's watch and he only launched crusie missle attacks back once, during the Lewinski scandal. (I might have misunderstood the number of times he attacked but I only remember this one from the special they pointed it out clearly) Clinton had many times heard the reports of Bin Laden, including breifings from his staff and even hearing about the possible use of airliners, he did however order a tighting of security on US airports ( I never heard of this when I was around) but lifted the security tightening prior to 2001 when Bush took office. President Bush in a memo prior to 9/11 was given a warning of possible Al-Queda attacks in the US, but he determined that the intelligence was not strong enough or had enough information to act on the memo. I wish the special had said more and I was a little dissapointed by them mentioning it only in this one context, but then again it was the only time Bush was informed, by a memo.
**opinion**This shows the failure of our leaders to react to intelligence prior to 9/11. Do you think maybe this is why Bush acted on bad intelligence on Iraq without investigating?? Maybe he felt that if he did act on the memo prior to 9/11 he could have stopped it, so he acted on bad intell on Iraq hoping to head off something that really was never there. I hope now those that dont understand the choices that Presidents have to make is not easy and Im sure even reasonable people will agree that Bush felt terrible loss over 9/11 and thought he was doing the right thing acting on intelligence so quickly on Iraq. On to Clinton's mistakes...I cannot blame Clinton for not wanting civilian casualties on those occasions, I too would have a problem bombing someplace that had a children's playground in the compound, but knowing the terrorists philosphy of sacrificing their own children to do their work and the fact that most the middle east would not have cared if we did kill Bin Laden even with civilian casulties again just shows the diffcult choices our leaders have to make. In retrospect, yes we should have gotten him when we had the chance, but hindsight is 20/20 and there is nothing we can do about that now. Is it sad that we knew there was someone wanting to kill us, kill our children, attack us, but because we are the "Land of the Free" and must hold a "higher" morality than rest of the world at that time we wouldnt act. It stops no one but us, we are bound by our own laws and thoughts in a politically correct world to properly defend ourselves from such attacks then and now. To attack terrorist we have to think like them or we are doomed to repeat the same cycle over and over of doing nothing and then doing too much at once. Our politicans are so swayed by the public, and special interest groups that have NO PLACE in making our policies such as the ACLU, Moveon.org, Christian Coalation, NRA, GOP and DNC thinktanks..they need to get the politics out of the military and let the military do their jobs.
4. Bin Laden wanted a war with the US. After defeating the Soviet Union in Afghanstan with the help of the CIA, his ultimate goal was to get the US into a war on our own soil and to bring the US to his turf so he could beat the US also and then begin his crusade of bringing "Muslim Rule" to the entire world.
He felt a war with the US, and defeating the "mighty UNited States" would show the power of Islam (his brand) and the Muslim Religion (his brand) to the entire world, recruit more follwers and eventually lead to a Jihad to encompass the world with his brand of Islam and kill all non-muslims.
**opnion**OK, he got what he wanted, he got us into a war. But he did not think we would beat him in Afghanstan and overrun the Taliban. He made a huge miscalculation on the Power of the US Military and our people in the begining of the war. He has been forced into hiding where it is diffcult for him to be as effective as he once was. He now must travel hiding in tunnels and using those that show him favor against the west to hide him. Since he lost Afghanstan he needs to hope that the insurgancy in Iraq succeds where he failed, which is why he is sending all his resources and top operatives to Iraq which is why we must stay they course. His misguided thoughts of Islam to rule the world were based on the knowledge that the US would not retaliate as strong as we did, our poor past of reacting during the Clinton Administration led him to believe that we would send a few attacks but not over run the enitre country he needed. I know many of you might not believe this but we must defeat terrorism where ever it exists. Not just where it obovious, but where its even slighty apparent. No one thought to look in our own country before 9/11 for terrorist living among us, but the world is diffrent now and we must act appropately.
**Wrapping up** Lastly I learned a lot last night and hope to learn a lot more. I stongly urge you to watch these specials and make up you own mind using a non-biased look at the events as they happened. I for one am very angry at our goverment officals today and told them so in many emails to my congressmen and other officals I can get an email too. This is very disturbing that this could happen, in this day and age with all the oppurntunities there was to prevent this attack just because of a fear of reprisals from the ACLU and like groups. Personally I feel that I would rather have a few less "liberties" than a thousand less American citizens. That is my opinion and Im sticking to it.
Thanks all, make sure you watch so you can make up your own minds...
And thats my twelve dollars and 2 cents worth
__________________
Im not suffering from insanity..Im enjoying every minute of it.