God, Katrina and everything

[Newcastle Uni]

For those of you who believe in God. Are you happy that your ominpotent, omniscient and omnipresent Lord allowed hurricane Katrina to devastate New Orleans and to see millions and millions of people dying horribly everyyear from a variety of causes?

I suppose some of you will say "God gives us free choice" or something, as nothing will sway a religious person from their faith.

[Robace252]

I for one am not a particularly religious person. I believe in the faith in my heart and that "God" is whatever I choose to believe it is. I personally think that science is proof and facts. Belief in God in a personal choice and that that do not believe in a "being" probally have faith in something. Be it science will save them, they have faith in themselves that they will take care of themselves and not religon as a "crutch" or to allow it to brainwash them. Those of you that do not believe in a "deity" and think the idea of religion is a complete farce are intitled to that opinon, and I respect that and on a lot of grounds I agree with you.
I think the question is a little wrongly worded and sounds very insensitive and even brought a little fury from me, which I have removed from my orignal post. I should not attack someone with my words even if I think they have no tact on asking something.

Just as a suggestion a better question would have been
"Does the effects and devestation of Hurricane Katrina make you wonder about God and his plan that you believe in so strongly."
I just think that would have been a little more tactful and if nothing else a little less inflammatory.
But I will try my best to answer, as again Im one of millions that are undecied on this whole religon thing/

OK Mr. Science people, with all your "Ability" and mastery of the earth...you still cant cure the common cold, predict a storm, or use the wonders of today to save someone with Cancer.
Are You happy Mr. Science that the industries and toxin created by your scientists have killed millions and millions.
Are you happy that you Mr. Science have created nuclear weapons that could kill us all 100 times over.

Do I think many religious people would answer the original post without the civility that I just realized that I didnt show in my first reply which I have now changed. No, they will attack and be personally offended which honestly I couldnt blame them if they did.
Again to anyone including Newcastle that might have seen my original post I apologize. Ive just seen this devestation 1st hand and see homes destoryed people completly lost, little of anything left in their lifes...and they come to me and sign a few papers to get some money and food and they tell me "Thank God your here" and I see groups holding each other and praying infront of homes that once stood and where family members just died. Will I
ask them the question above. NEVER. I have a little more humanity in my soul than to do that. I hope that you or anyone wouldnt walk up to a refugee and ask the same thing. But that still doesnt give me the right to attempt to personally attack anyone for any reason and again I apologize.

But I will answer one thing...from what Ive seen...those religious believer would most likely not say "Free Will", but that God has a plan, none of us know what it is. Why he allows devestation and death to occur is to show and remind the rest of us how important and precious life is.
Although I dont need this as a reminder of that.

[Newcastle Uni]

I for one am not a particularly religious person. I believe in the faith in my heart and that "God" is whatever I choose to believe it is. I personally think that science is proof and facts. Belief in God in a personal choice and that that do not believe in a "being" probally have faith in something. Be it science will save them, they have faith in themselves that they will take care of themselves and not religon as a "crutch" or to allow it to brainwash them. Those of you that do not believe in a "deity" and think the idea of religion is a complete farce are intitled to that opinon, and I respect tha,t and on a lot of grounds I agree with you.
I looked at this post for a LONG time before deciding to respond. I hate to say this, and probally shouldn't. But here it goes...Im looking at this just as I am in Mississippi, volunteering with the Red Cross. Heres what I have to say about Newcastle's EXTREMELY OUTRAGEOUS POST!
You Sir, have NO HUMANITY. Do you get joy and pleasure from kicking people when they are down? Do you enjoy stepping on the neck of a puppy dog just to hear the snap. Do you enjoy just utterly being what I will describe as an unfeeling, unremoseful human being? Questioning someone elses faith is one thing...but asking if they are happy, if they enjoy death, if they are happy about the destruction is just below the belt.

OK Mr. Science people, with all your "Ability" and mastery of the earth...you still cant cure the common cold, predict a storm, or use the wonders of today to save someone with Cancer.
Are You happy Mr. Science that the industries and toxin created by your scientists have killed millions and millions.
Are you happy that you Mr. Science have created nuclear weapons that could kill us all 100 times over.

I hope that those others that do not believe in God do not share or agree with the originator of this post, maybe not the point but the complete classlessness of the question. For Humanities sake I hope not.

Just as a suggestion a better question would have been
"Does the effects and devestation of Hurricane Katrina make you wonder about God and his plan that you believe in so strongly."
I just think that would have been a little more tactful and if nothing else a little more "human".

I didn't mean it like that. I can understand how my question could have been misinterpreted. Your suggestion for rephasing is a good idea.

[gibby59]

Well said robace252.

Newcastle, maybe you should reread your words before posting them just to make sure they say what you mean.

[isabeau]

this thread is an insult God didnt do this. mother nature did. things happen which have no explanation and its best not to try and especially never blame God. i suppose now we must blame God for the holocaust, 911, earthquakes, tornadoes, tsunamis i mean this is ridiculous. why must blame be put on anything but what it is why o why put blame anywhere at all? i'm tired of people blaming this and that for things that happen. this was maybe inevitable, given that new orleans is below sea level. and instead of putting blame on anything, pray for those people or try and figure out some way to help them.

isabeau :rant:

[theshire]

He's not blaming God for making it happen; he's blaming God for ALLOWING it to happen.

That said, I don't like this. There are some places even I fear to tread, and this subject is one of them.

[Newcastle Uni]

Well said robace252.

Newcastle, maybe you should reread your words before posting them just to make sure they say what you mean.

I thought the words were fine, but I can see how people might misinterpret the question.

For those of you who believe in God. Are you happy that your ominpotent, omniscient and omnipresent Lord allowed hurricane Katrina to devastate New Orleans and to see millions and millions of people dying horribly everyyear from a variety of causes?

When dealing with people from 50 different US states and perhaps an equal number of other countries in the world these misunderstandings will probably occur every now and then.

What has happened in New Orleans, what happened in Asia following the Tsunami and what has happened around the world in terms of people being tortured to death and suffering unbelievable pain and misery is something no-one would take pleasure in. I'm sorry to all those people who thought i meant this.

[isabeau]

same thing how did God allow this to happen??? i stand by what i posted before allowing and blaming same diff in my book as far as God is concerned. best not to post this kind of thread

isabeau

[jpmtickle]

"God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble. Therefore we will not fear, though the earth should change and though the mountains slip into the heart of the sea; though its waters roar and foam, though the mountains quake at its swelling pride." Psalm 46: 1-3

Ovbiously Newcastle you've made up your mind about who God is, and that's fine for you. I can't understand how you would have the gall to provoke those of us with faith into explaining something that is beyond our limited understanding.

Why did everyone not leave the area as instructed? Why was New Orleans allowed to expand and dig in--knowing this very situation could occur? I don't have the answers to these questions--nor do you.

What I do know is that God will continue to use struggle, both personal and societal to bring glory to Himself. There will be stories of transformation and belief out of this incredible tragedy.

I don't claim to know anything about you personally but I can only assume from the posts here and in other threads that you are an extremely angry individual and I pray that you would seek the counseling and healing you obviously need...

I also invite you to PM me if you want to talk about the Gospel and why it really is the Good News, even in New Orleans on September 2, 2005...

Peace to you,
JP

[Newcastle Uni]

this thread is an insult God didnt do this. mother nature did. things happen which have no explanation and its best not to try and especially never blame God. i suppose now we must blame God for the holocaust, 911, earthquakes, tornadoes, tsunamis i mean this is ridiculous. why must blame be put on anything but what it is why o why put blame anywhere at all? i'm tired of people blaming this and that for things that happen. this was maybe inevitable, given that new orleans is below sea level. and instead of putting blame on anything, pray for those people or try and figure out some way to help them.

isabeau :rant:

why pray for them? if God was unable to stop this happening, why is he going to be able to rectufy the situation once it has happened?

I don't believe in God, so I would never blame him for the holocaust, 911 (although they were a bad boyband and someone must be blamed), earthquakes etc.
But how do these things sit with other peoples understanding of God?

I'm only trying to better understand peoples religious convictions, or should we not ask any questions that might upset people?

[Newcastle Uni]

"God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble. Therefore we will not fear, though the earth should change and though the mountains slip into the heart of the sea; though its waters roar and foam, though the mountains quake at its swelling pride." Psalm 46: 1-3

Ovbiously Newcastle you've made up your mind about who God is, and that's fine for you. I can't understand how you would have the gall to provoke those of us with faith into explaining something that is beyond our limited understanding.

Why did everyone not leave the area as instructed? Why was New Orleans allowed to expand and dig in--knowing this very situation could occur? I don't have the answers to these questions--nor do you.

What I do know is that God will continue to use struggle, both personal and societal to bring glory to Himself. There will be stories of transformation and belief out of this incredible tragedy.

I don't claim to know anything about you personally but I can only assume from the posts here and in other threads that you are an extremely angry individual and I pray that you would seek the counseling and healing you obviously need...

I also invite you to PM me if you want to talk about the Gospel and why it really is the Good News, even in New Orleans on September 2, 2005...

Peace to you,
JP

I thankyou for your kind invitation to discuss things with you.

I was not asking you to try and explain why God allows such things to happen, I just wanted to know what you thought on this issue. I wanted to know whether you were happy with God allowing this to happen, or does it trouble you and cause you to question your religious convictions.

[gibby59]

I think those words are just fine



Robace is just being silly. Read between the lines people. You're dealing with people from 50 different US states and perhaps an equal number of other countries in the world. Appreciate that different localities have different ways of phrasing questions. Robace knew the question that I was asking, he even suggested how I could have phrased it.

What has happened in New Orleans, what happened in Asia following the Tsunami and what has happened around the world in terms of people being tortured to death and suffering unbelievable pain and misery is something no-one would take pleasure in. To suggest that I might is deeply offensive.

Reading between the lines I infer this - that God somehow enjoys seeing people being tortured, suffering unbelievable pain and death. I find that deeply offsensive. It is humans who are torturing, maiming, and murdering other humans. Blaming God for these things serves no purpose.

[Newcastle Uni]

Reading between the lines I infer this - that God somehow enjoys seeing people being tortured, suffering unbelievable pain and death. I find that deeply offsensive. It is humans who are torturing, maiming, and murdering other humans. Blaming God for these things serves no purpose.

I;ve changed the quote you use.

I didn't want people to get the wrong idea, and i'm grateful to robace for pointing out how my innocent question oculd be misconstrued.

The question has many meanings, but one is

Do the events cause people to question their religious convictions. If this is too emotive a subject, then perhaps this forum is not the theater in which to disucess this.

[jpmtickle]

No, it does change what I think about the Almighty Creator of the universe and everything in it.

Am I happy that God allows this type of situation? Of course not. Am I happy that sin is in the world and keeps up from the kind of relationship with God we were created to have? Of course not. That's why Jesus is the only answer and until His return there will always be things in this world that are not right.

JP

[Robace252]

Again Newcastle and all, I hope you will all go back to my original thread and reread it. I have changed it from what Newcastle has in his 1st post responding to me. I realized I was being a little too angry from seeing what Ive seen today and let my emotions get the best of me. I have apologized to Newcastle and I hope he accepts it. And I also will apologize to the rest of you as well if I stirred anything up, including the MODS of this forum. I try to be civil in all my post and if you reread my post you might understand why I went off in that way. Again, please reread it, and hopefully that will be all Ill say on the subject,
And Newcastle, I wasnt being silly, I was just frustrated and seeing the devestation first hand, I responed to your first post more out of emotion than thought.
Thanks all...we can all get along :bump: but I like the spotight once in awhile

[drew70]

It all depends on how one views God. Does God exist to serve mankind, governing the forces of nature to accommodate and protect us? Or do we exist to serve God and experience a relationship with him?

[hivoltage]

Regardless of the debate over the nature of God's will - the Universe and everything that ever happens to anyone and anything cannot happen without the ultimate consent of God, assuming he is omnipotent.

God may love his "children", but I believe that it would be better if God didn't exist; that there wasn't an all-powerful being that could have stopped the tsunami or Katrina - and decided against it.

Bitter sarcasm coming...

I wouldn't allow my pet to undergo 1/1,000th of the suffering that many humans eventually go through. But I am not 1/1,000,000,000,000 as smart as God, so maybe Fluffy should start praying.

[kurchatovium]

I heard a story from a friend of mine once:

A rabbi asks God why he lets so many awful things happen in this world and does not do anything about it.
To his surprise God answers and says "I did do something about it my child. I sent you."

Perhaps then the message is rather than blaming a creator that you may or may not believe in, it is better to get out of chair and just help. :D

[isabeau]

for those of you who do not believe in an omnipotent being, how did you get here? God didnt builld new orleans people did. and the same thing about the netherlands. man went there, knowing it was below sea water, and tried to bend nature to his own molding. man was stupid enough to think they could defy God and nature by building a city below sea water. and yet God allowed this to happen. thank God i dont go by this myself, or i would wonder why God allowed my three babies to die. and maybe just maybe hate Him instead of loving Him above all others.

isabeau

ps how could anyone who believes in God imagine He would allow the total devastation of a city? God doesnt work that way. plus if you jump into a river, not able to swim, and drown, did God allow that? hurricanes have been happening since the beginning of creation.

[Newcastle Uni]

for those of you who do not believe in an omnipotent being, how did you get here? God didnt builld new orleans people did. and the same thing about the netherlands. man went there, knowing it was below sea water, and tried to bend nature to his own molding. man was stupid enough to think they could defy God and nature by building a city below sea water. and yet God allowed this to happen. thank God i dont go by this myself, or i would wonder why God allowed my three babies to die. and maybe just maybe hate Him instead of loving Him above all others.

isabeau

ps how could anyone who believes in God imagine He would allow the total devastation of a city? God doesnt work that way. plus if you jump into a river, not able to swim, and drown, did God allow that? hurricanes have been happening since the beginning of creation.

Thats quite a good arguement.

However, I must say I disagree. I don't believe in God. But I think its a good arguement nonetheless.

[isabeau]

Thats quite a good arguement.

However, I must say I disagree. I don't believe in God. But I think its a good arguement nonetheless.


thank you very much newcastle . that is very gracious of you . but if i keep responding to your posts and threads i just might break some sort of record for posting the most posts by a newbie.

isabeau :bowing:

[Newcastle Uni]

thank you very much newcastle . that is very gracious of you . but if i keep responding to your posts and threads i just might break some sort of record for posting the most posts by a newbie.

isabeau :bowing:

wow! you've posted almost as many as me! and i;ve been hear on and off (mostly off) for 6 years, although i've been registered in this guise for only 2 years or so.

[hivoltage]

I'm sorry Isabeau, by your reply doesn't really deal with non man-made catastrophes like the tsunami.

What could anyone have done to stop that? Not be poor? Not live near the water?

Another bitter thought coming:

If there is a God, I do not forgive him for the misery that many, many people live with and are usually born into. And I don't give a shit that God is sending me to hell for thinking his grand plan is crap.

Because for far too many, it is. As I said above, I treat my pets better than many people live.

[kurchatovium]

God does do something to help, he sent us. It is regretable that we (myself included ) do not do more to help others.

[isabeau]

I'm sorry Isabeau, by your reply doesn't really deal with non man-made catastrophes like the tsunami.

What could anyone have done to stop that? Not be poor? Not live near the water?

Another bitter thought coming:

If there is a God, I do not forgive him for the misery that many, many people live with and are usually born into. And I don't give a shit that God is sending me to hell for thinking his grand plan is crap.

Because for far too many, it is. As I said above, I treat my pets better than many people live.


o and the hurricanes are man made hmm makes lots of sense to me yup indeedy. and what does being poor have to do with anything? did i even mention poor? o well i also treat my pet far better than many people live. but whats that got to do with this?

isabeau

[Ronley]

I don't think god likes what has happened, but I don't think he/she/it is willing to interfere without someone asking, i.e. praying. After all, god gave us the world to do with as we saw fit. To interfere now would be to interfere with our free will. And maybe those who died did so for a cause; in 1, 10, 100 years or maybe even longer, maybe these deaths will inspire a change that will have a global impact for the better. In the end though, I don’t think anyone can truly understand god’s plans, all we can do is guess.

As for those living in poverty or distress, I have to agree with kurchatovium that god sent us. I don't think god directly interferes unless there is no other way; we are all tools of god, all capable of making the world a better place, each in our own way.

[MrMacphisto]

Newcastle, I can see where you are coming from.... Many people love to praise God for the good things in their lives, but they always avoid blaming God for the bad things. Then again, plenty of other people do the opposite....

The way I see it: if God exists, then omnipotence and omniscience imply infinite responsibility. Therefore, God is neither good nor evil. I would assume a divine being is beyond such petty concerns as morality. Many humans have realized the subjectivity of morality as well and have also chosen to transcend it.

[Ticklish9's]

For those of you who believe in God. Are you happy that your ominpotent, omniscient and omnipresent Lord allowed hurricane Katrina to devastate New Orleans and to see millions and millions of people dying horribly everyyear from a variety of causes?

I suppose some of you will say "God gives us free choice" or something, as nothing will sway a religious person from their faith.


I'm pretty happy that the circumstances of nature that allow hurricanes to develop are the same as those which allow intelligent life to evolve.

An intelligent life, I might add, that will - as ever - rise to this occasion.

I'm also willing to admit that I'm NOT omniscient and therefore I'm not qualified to read meaning into what is clearly a natural event and a product of the world's natural environment (with some minor modifications by us which appear not to have been too brilliant).


Oh, coincidentally - I'm pretty happy that God allows billions of humans to go on living and loving every day. Although the system is sort of set up that way. ;)

[Ticklish9's]

Regardless of the debate over the nature of God's will - the Universe and everything that ever happens to anyone and anything cannot happen without the ultimate consent of God, assuming he is omnipotent.

God may love his "children", but I believe that it would be better if God didn't exist; that there wasn't an all-powerful being that could have stopped the tsunami or Katrina - and decided against it.

Bitter sarcasm coming...

I wouldn't allow my pet to undergo 1/1,000th of the suffering that many humans eventually go through. But I am not 1/1,000,000,000,000 as smart as God, so maybe Fluffy should start praying.


You may believe that all you like - that's the beauty of free will.

Of course, you - like myself - are not omniscient, and can't really tell what's important to the greater good.

I believe that this is very, very early in human history, and we'll learn to easily overcome these sorts of challenges in the future, so as to be able to face our fresh challenges as we grow through the cosmos. But I'm not all that able to make plans, either.

Coincidentally, the suffering that humans go through is often at the hands of other humans.



Also coincidentally, a child that is protected from all the world has to offer never experiences any of the really vibrant stuff. The term "sheltered" would apply. God appears to have chosen to let us experience the world rather than have us be sheltered, just as some parents let their kids go out and have fun on a friday night instead of sheltering them from the "bad stuff" that's "out there." Which is the truer love?

All I can say is, I'm glad we're not sheltered.

[hivoltage]

Originally posted by Isabeau{E}
God didnt builld new orleans people did. and the same thing about the netherlands. man went there, knowing it was below sea water, and tried to bend nature to his own molding. man was stupid enough to think they could defy God and nature by building a city below sea water. and yet God allowed this to happen.

ps how could anyone who believes in God imagine He would allow the total devastation of a city? God doesnt work that way. plus if you jump into a river, not able to swim, and drown, did God allow that? hurricanes have been happening since the beginning of creation

God does work that way - through earthquakes, tornadoes, plagues, hurricanes, tsunamis, wildfires, flooding, drought, pestilence, etc. Most of these are completely unavoidable by their victims.

Which, I still say is worse than I would even treat a pet bird.

I admire the fact that your life has been difficult at times, and you maintain your faith.

I am the exact opposite - my life has been nothing less than excellent, yet I see the suffering that many endure from others and from nature, and I find it repulsive, not faith-enhancing / challenging.

[isabeau]

thank you hivoltage for the compliment. without faith life to me would be intolerable but i dont push my faith on others. except for some minor glitches in my life such as the loss of my babies and my parents deaths and the fact that i cannot have more children, i find my life pretty excellent also. and i respect your beliefs and would never shove mine down your throat.

isabeau

[Ticklish9's]

God does work that way - through earthquakes, tornadoes, plagues, hurricanes, tsunamis, wildfires, flooding, drought, pestilence, etc. Most of these are completely unavoidable by their victims.

Which, I still say is worse than I would even treat a pet bird.

I admire the fact that your life has been difficult at times, and you maintain your faith.

I am the exact opposite - my life has been nothing less than excellent, yet I see the suffering that many endure from others and from nature, and I find it repulsive, not faith-enhancing / challenging.

The thing about pet birds is, they live in a cage.

Sure, every need is met - but they never fly free.

And if you let them outside to fly, they rarely, if ever, come back.

You see my point?

Free will has it's price.

[hivoltage]

That is a very good point, even though birds are not sentient beings, and I do believe that makes all of the difference in the world.

The savagery that individuals often commit towards others, and the suffering that many endure is still incompatible with a plan that any decent God would have assembled.

Hey, I know lots and lots of people think that God's plan is great, fantastic, and wonderful. I sincerely think it's inexcusable in the amount of brutality and misery that is allowed in the plan (kind of like my HMO!).

Sorry, Mr. God - I would have done it waaaaay differently.

And I'm not picking the Jewish guy over the Arab guy or the Indian guy, so I guess I'm going to hell with the rest of the skeptics.

[kurchatovium]

You know the ironic thing is if nothing bad ever happened it would more of a hell than the way things are now. Sigh no one remembers Twilight Zone LOL.

Happiness is a relative thing. A man can loose his house and possesions but he will cry with happiness to know his wife and kids are ok. He has physically less than before but is happier then he was before he lost his house. Happiness and self worth come about when we work to achieve something or realize how important something is we have taken for granted.

You see bad things, allow good people to show how good they are. When someone is down or out it gives you a chance to help. When bad things happen it is an opportunity for man to show his love for his fellow man. Regretablly this does not happen often enough.

In summary:

God does not micromanage. (Paraphrased if something is wrong do something about it)

[jim66e]

You know the ironic thing is if nothing bad ever happened it would more of a hell than the way things are now. Sigh no one remembers Twilight Zone LOL.

Happiness is a relative thing. A man can loose his house and possesions but he will cry with happiness to know his wife and kids are ok. He has physically less than before but is happier then he was before he lost his house. Happiness and self worth come about when we work to achieve something or realize how important something is we have taken for granted.

You see bad things, allow good people to show how good they are. When someone is down or out it gives you a chance to help. When bad things happen it is an opportunity for man to show his love for his fellow man. Regretablly this does not happen often enough.

In summary:

God does not micromanage. (Paraphrased if something is wrong do something about it)

Great post Kurchatovium, I agreee compleatly and couldn't have put it better myself.

[hivoltage]

You don't need any misery in your life to appreciate how good you have it if you open your eyes to the suffering and misery of OTHERS.

Yes, far too many people don't appreciate how horrible something is until it happens to them. That is the selfisheness and shortsightedness of many, not all.

There does not need to be the monumental brutality, suffering, and savagery that happens every day for one to appreaciate when things are great.

[kurchatovium]

What I am saying hi voltage is that one needs some bad things to happen in order to do some good things. Remeber happiness is relative. Would you really want a world where nothing bad ever ever happens. Think about it.

Do you really think this world is so bad, so horrible? There is far more beauty in this world then there is ugliness. I regret that many dont see this. A missionary told me once that he worked in 3rd world country (forget which one) and he talked to a man who lived in a tent and slept on a cot barely a few inches over swamp water. He had no real posessions. Most people in US would be miserable living his life. Yet he was happy. Love and God are a force more powerful than many realize.

[isabeau]

You don't need any misery in your life to appreciate how good you have it if you open your eyes to the suffering and misery of OTHERS.

Yes, far too many people don't appreciate how horrible something is until it happens to them. That is the selfisheness and shortsightedness of many, not all.

There does not need to be the monumental brutality, suffering, and savagery that happens every day for one to appreaciate when things are great.


oo i had faith way before anything bad happened in my life, and i have had a few believe me. but still no matter what has happened to me in the past, i relish each and every day here on earth. life is beautiful, and i look around at the sky, the trees, the grass, the birds , the squirrels and say wow isnt life the best thing there is? no matter how i was tested in the past, i have never and will never lose my faith.

isabeau

[Red Jester]

If there isn't a God and you don't believe him, why are you so angry? If there is a God, then he gave us life. We're his playtoys to screw with.

[Oddjob0226]

Rephrasing or none, Uni, I like your middle-finger "hey you!" on just about everything. (or, two fingers in the reverse-victory sign, in your case). It makes me slightly remember what that fearless power of youth was like - and boy, do I miss it!

God did it because, well, he made us in His image - and just look at us! That's one horny, forgetful, neurotic, gossipy, passive-aggressive deity that likes Cheddar cheese and needs more sleep.

[killedbyanangel]

The good thing about suffering is it ends eventually. I'm a Christian Universalist so I think all of us are destined for a higher place (even the bad ones). I feel for the families of those who lost somone, death of your loved ones and a loss of all your posessions is a shitty thing ;it's happened to me, just in a different way. Do I blame God for allowing this? No. Somtimes I blame him for creating human beings in the first place, because we can all be real pieces of shit somtimes.....but the old man must of found somthing in us and I have to believe that. Yeah I lose faith somtimes but not because of a hurricane. All those people wouldn't have died if we had a goverment that took better care of its citizens. Building a city below sea level to begin with is a pretty foolish idea if you ask me, but what do I know I'm one of them retarded God followers right?

We live, we die it's the way of things, whether we live our lives until we're 80 and die in our sleep or have a roof collapse on our head isn't going to mean a fuck to anyone 100 years from now. Yeah we're stuck with the cards we're given and not everyone likes it. But if we have an end to look forward to where all this makes sense (and I believe that in my soul) then this will all be worth it to everyone no matter how much suffering they've endured. If not then God must be a kid with an ant-farm or someone must be, because I highly doubt we're just an accident.

[kcantankerous]

Again if God controlled every event that that happened there'd be no reason for any of us to be born in this world. Bad things happen because of the laws of science, aswell as the fact that people arn't good or evil, we are both. Natural disasters happen thats apart of life. Did it ever occur to you Newcastle that maybe some of these natural disasters occured as a product of greenhouse gases. That is the fact that the ocean waters are in fact warmer which creates more huricanes. Even if that wasn't true, we are praying for the healing of the ones who lived, and for the souls of those who have died.

[Robace252]

I dont remember who posted this statement but I really have been thinking about it lately...and it rings true to me.
If there is a God or such a being that created us I believe that he would be above such things as morality, good or evil, and the like.
I do believe that. Im sure if there is a being as such, he has more important things to worry about/create/do than worry if someone sins, if a hurricane or tsunami kills a lot of people, or if anyone believes in him or not.
In the universal scope of things we as humans are insignificant. There are many forces that we do not, or will not probally ever understand. Look at our own planet. We know more about outer space in some aspects then we know what lies REAL DEEP in our own ocean.
For anyone to believe that we "humans" are the only intelligent things in this ENTIRE vast universe is utterly insane and egotistical. There is something else out there that we might not ever understand. Watching us, and probally laughing too. Not at whether Science or Religion is true and which one is right or wrong, but laugh at us that we even argue about it at all.