An Idea to lower gas prices!

[Tcklsh_Kandy]

First I'm not sure if this belongs here or not so feel free to move it.

This is my idea how we , the American public can lower gas prices . Everyone talks about NOT buying gas fo a day or more . Obviously we can't do that , but what we can do is this . Stop buying it from the top oil company which is EXXON/Mobil and buy it elsewhere . In fact CUT UP your EXXON/Mobil cards and mail them back saying "Screw you ,we are done paying your prices!" I see it this way , If EXXON/Mobil lose money they will HAVE to lower prices to get business back . Once they lower prices thenSunoco,Citgo,Getty ...all the rest have NO choice but to LOWER THEIR PRICES AS WELL !!!!!!! Tell me what you guys think.

[kurchatovium]

Well the economic theory is sound, companies will keep charging what they can if people keep buying it. If people stop buying the product companies will have to lower the price to increase sales and increase revenue. However I think if more people used public transportation this would impact the situation to a larger extent and at least in LA all buses are methanol or natural gas powered.

[Tcklsh_Kandy]

Not here on the East Coast . I might be wrong but most busses here are diesel . And who sells diesel ? I think EXXON/Mobil does.

[mpeyton]

I like the ideas. I have been upset about the gas prices going up for months. If the grapevine is right, we need to tap into the oil reserves in areas like Alaska instead of relying on oil from Kuwait and Mexico. That might be another solution. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong about this.

[kurchatovium]

Well even if they still use gas it would help because you would be reducing the amount cars on the road. I would think oil companies make most of their mula off cars. Though I could be wrong here, there are many other uses for oil and gas other than transportation.

[Tcklsh_Kandy]

I like the ideas. I have been upset about the gas prices going up for months. If the grapevine is right, we need to tap into the oil reserves in areas like Alaska instead of relying on oil from Kuwait and Mexico. That might be another solution. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong about this.
From what I hear the reason we HAVEN'T yet is because of ALL THOSE animal rights activists who are worried about the BIRDS near the pipeline :rant:

[mpeyton]

From what I hear the reason we HAVEN'T yet is because of ALL THOSE animal rights activists who are worried about the BIRDS near the pipeline :rant:

Thanks for reminding me. Forgot about the planeteers on the left. It seems those kooks care more about the animals dying from "global warming" than the human that have dominion over them! What the hell?

[Tcklsh_Kandy]

My idea may not be a cure all because you still have the cost of heating oils and such . But , I think it's a start.

[kurchatovium]

The ultimate benefit for us in terms of freeing ourselves from gas and oil is fuel cell technology which takes hydrogen and oxygen (from the air) and prodcues energy and only water vapor as an exhaust. Several fuel cell vehicles have been built and they are getting better though they are still a bit cumbersome. Fuel cells are the way to go. Hopefully the technology will improve.

[Tcklsh_Kandy]

And what is to stop the manufacturers of these saod fuel cells from charging rediculously high costs for them .... Knowing they are an alternative ?????!!!

[Tcklsh_Kandy]

You know History CAN repaet itself . I might be wrong but we Americans did something similar to my idea with the Boston Tea Party . Only this time it would be hard to throw the oil in the harbour , but it's very similar.

[kurchatovium]

Ultimately companies will only charge what people are willing to pay. If people buy them at high prices companies will charge high prices. The advantage of fuel cells lies really with freeing us from oil available primarily from the middle east and of course the pollution free exhaust that it produces.

[MrMacphisto]

Thanks for reminding me. Forgot about the planeteers on the left. It seems those kooks care more about the animals dying from "global warming" than the human that have dominion over them! What the hell?

Oh sure... fuck the environment right?

The reason why many people are reluctant to support drilling in Alaska is because of the history of such operations. Plenty of environmental disasters have occurred due to the negligence of oil companies. Remember the Valdez?

Drilling in Alaska can be done with minimal harm to the environment, but it requires that we are careful in our methods. As for those of you that seem to give less than two shits about the environment... Remember this: it's the increase in the air pollution of many urban areas that has lead to increasing incidents of respiratory illnesses in the U.S. If you don't care about the environment for the planet's sake, then at least you can care when it comes to your own health. The more we harm the planet, the more it hurts humans themselves. In other words, there is a self-interest involved in protecting the environment....

[Candlewicke]

Drilling in the Wildlife Refuge in Alaska would benefit only the oil company that profits from it.

The U.S. government Energy Information Administration's estimate of the recoverable oil under the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge is only about 590,000 barrels per day by 2015, before production declines to 510,000 barrels per day in 2020.

10.4 billion barrels total, enough to supply U.S. needs for about six months.

Most of the oil that is drilled in this country gets sold to the highest bidder outside our country anyway.

Both ConocoPhillips and BP have now withdrawn their support from Arctic Power, a pro-drilling lobby group financed by the state of Alaska.

Candlewicke

[Candlewicke]

...Remember the Valdez?
I do, MisterMac - thanks for bringing this up.

And Exxon is still refusing to accept their responsibility for that unspeakable mess; dragging out the litigation and delaying the payments of compensation that they have owed for years.

Candlewicke

[tickledorange]

Several fuel cell vehicles have been built

I hear BMW is working hard at this and should have some done in the next few years.

For now, I am supporting the creation of biodiesel, ethanol, and hydrogen research.

Here's another thought: If it really is all about supply and demand, why don't people (who have buses available) start taking the bus? Won't this call for an increasing demand in buses? This may raise fuel costs for diesel, but if Biodiesel really does exist (somewhere, not in IL yet), they could use that to fill buses.

Also, if people carpooled to the same place and split the fuel costs, wouldn't that decrease the amount of money you would need each month for fuel?


on the net: Biodiesel - http://www.biodiesel.com/
Ethanol Research - http://www.ford.com/en/vehicles/specialtyVehicles/environmental/ethanol.htm
BMW's Hydrogen Concept - www.bmwworld.com/hydrogen
Propane alternative - http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/analysis_publications/propane_prices_brochure/propbro.html

[MrMacphisto]

I do, MisterMac - thanks for bringing this up.

And Exxon is still refusing to accept their responsibility for that unspeakable mess; dragging out the litigation and delaying the payments of compensation that they have owed for years.

Candlewicke

Thanks... :D

I didn't know the Exxon thing was still going on... wow...

[hivoltage]

You may be able to get the big oil companies to cut back on some of their profits, but nearly all of the increase in the price of gas is built into the world price of a barrel of oil, which has gone from about $10 a barrel to $67 a barrel.

The only real way to get the price of gas down is to increase fuel efficiency dramatically - i. e. stop buying SUV's and start buying cars. Otherwise, we will be seeing $3 a gallon gas for a while.

[MrMacphisto]

Actually, hivoltage, there's no current reason for oil prices to go down. I'll bet you that the average price of gas (87 octane) in the U.S. will top $4 within 2 weeks.

[Tcklsh_Kandy]

Actually, hivoltage, there's no current reason for oil prices to go down. I'll bet you that the average price of gas (87 octane) in the U.S. will top $4 within 2 weeks.

Wow sounds to me you are HAPPY about this .

[hivoltage]

I'll be happy if $4 a gallon gas makes people stop buying gas-wasting vehicles, and we have a permanent reduction in demand, which will help prevent price spikes.

In Europe, gas is $6 a gallon or more, and they don't drive SUV's, but they have higher gas taxes and are affected by our demand.

[isabeau]

you know i heard from a very reliable source that oil will be obsolete in thirty years then you up above me will get your wish. no more gas guzzling vehicles no gas powered vehicles at all. then we can use solar power to get us where we need to go until that also becomes obsolete. we are in real danger here and frankly i have no idea how it will be solved.

isabeau

[kurchatovium]

I heard oil will essentially be used up in 50 to 75 years but I think the main point is that very soon we need a replacement. Fuel cells and bio sources of usable fuels seem the most likely candidates. I heard of research done in chemistry devolping a catalyst which when added to water uses solar energy to break it apart into hydrogen and oxygen at the time the catalyst was not cost effective. I have yet to hear any further research on this but it would be a fantastic source of hydrogen for fuel cells.

thus we could have:

water =======> hydrogen and oxyen =======> energy + water
..........sunlight................................ .fuel cell


not bad huh. :D

[Strider]

We will see something overtake the internal combustion engine eventually,probably within 10-20 years.Oil prices are not set to drop anytime soon.

[Robace252]

As much as I would love the idea of using all alternative fuel sources there are major obstacles in the way of using these. For every idea there is a enviromental group against it. When our planet was created (Im using a scientific approach to creation of the planet here) gases that were in the atmosphere are close to the ammount that is in the atmosphere today.

I got this inforamtion from a science research firm with the EPA, labeled doc#7765-DR2 Habitability of the Earth in future generations

At what point will the planet will become uninhabitable due to fossil fuels being burned is diffcult because its hard to predict how the earth will respond to the impact of human activities on the climate. From ice core data we know that over the past 450,000 years there has been a natural oscillation in atmospheric CO2 levels and average global temperature, with warmer temperatures occurring with higher CO2 levels.

In this time period, until the start of the industrial revolution, atmospheric C02 varied between 200-300 parts per million (ppm). Now, with the increased burning of fossil fuels and deforestation, this level has surpassed 370 ppm, a condition that the earth has not experienced in the last half a million years.

The earth has had in the past levels of CO2 much higher than the present 370 ppm and is believed to have helped the Earth evolve into the life giving planet we exist on today.

There are also concerns about the volcanic eruptions and natural gases emitting from the earth that actually put more materials into our atmosphere than all of the man made pollutants combined.

Pinatubo and similar volcanic eruptions spew massive amounts of materials into the atmosphere. However, the particular materials ejected normally have the net effect of cooling the Earth, rather than warming it. The volcano only has a global effect when the eruption is powerful enough to send its plume into the lower stratosphere, in regions where there is relatively little mixing and turbulence. In a short time the heavier particles fall out and most of the gases chemically convert to aerosols. However, the remanents can persist for years and spread over most of the globe, acting principally to reflect sunlight and thus cool the Earth. In the case of Pinatubo the cooling lasted for about a year, during which time the stratospheric contamination was visible as faint pink shading just after sunset on the clearest evenings.

So as the earth heats due to CO2 levels rising in the atmosphere it seems as if the planet has what can almost be described as a "fail-safe" and "human proof" way to cleanse itself every 10 to 20 years when a major eruption occurs. There is currently scientific studies ongoing in the arctic regions to attempt to map the precise temperature changes that happen when a major eruption occurs and how this settles the global warming by natural means.
This could be a way that humans in the future can undo any damage if any that has been done by fossil fuels.

Again Im assuming this report was hashed togeather by many scientist with who knows what on their minds and who they were being paid by (US Govt.) but I think scientifically it makes some sense.

In refernence to my beliefs about enviromental groups being against almost all new alternative source forms, there are groups that are complety whacko against wind power "destoys the natural landscape, noisy turbines, and too many wind power plants could change the path of the jet stream and change global weather." And with hydrogen ive even seen more whacko's with "where will all the water go that the cars produce as the by-product? They will dump this unclean water into our streams and rivers and pollute the oceans by dropping salt water levels, killing fish and rising the sea level to dangerous levels."
I agree with most of you that we need to stop our dependance on oil and stop the practice of oil 1st and everything last. We have oil, lets focus on getting something that will work, be affordable and most importantly will leave us all in better health for now and our childrens sake.

[maniactickler]

Wow sounds to me you are HAPPY about this .

Of course they are. it gives them a chance to blame Bush for something else.

[MrMacphisto]

Wow sounds to me you are HAPPY about this .

Not quite... it all depends on how you look at it. The negative aspects of a sustained increase in fuel costs are pretty obvious: higher cost of living, less traveling, and higher trucking costs.

The positive aspect of this increase is that it forces Americans to slowly move away from oil. If oil prices rise enough, then alternative energy sources become more affordable and more appealing. The more we move away from oil, the more we can move away from the Middle East. I think the last few years have shown us just how much of a hellhole the Middle East really is, and if America just stayed out of their affairs, we'd be much better off.

[MrMacphisto]

As much as I would love the idea of using all alternative fuel sources there are major obstacles in the way of using these. For every idea there is a enviromental group against it. When our planet was created (Im using a scientific approach to creation of the planet here) gases that were in the atmosphere are close to the ammount that is in the atmosphere today.....

In refernence to my beliefs about enviromental groups being against almost all new alternative source forms, there are groups that are complety whacko against wind power "destoys the natural landscape, noisy turbines, and too many wind power plants could change the path of the jet stream and change global weather." And with hydrogen ive even seen more whacko's with "where will all the water go that the cars produce as the by-product? They will dump this unclean water into our streams and rivers and pollute the oceans by dropping salt water levels, killing fish and rising the sea level to dangerous levels."
I agree with most of you that we need to stop our dependance on oil and stop the practice of oil 1st and everything last. We have oil, lets focus on getting something that will work, be affordable and most importantly will leave us all in better health for now and our childrens sake.

There are obviously nutcases in the environmental movement just like any other form of activism, but the smart environmentalists are the ones that merely try to encourage more responsible behaviors among the general populace. Smart environmentalists brought us things like recycling and cleaner gasolines.

[MrMacphisto]

Of course they are. it gives them a chance to blame Bush for something else.

Maniac, it would seem that you are extremely happy to be able to blame me for something.

[asutickler]

First I'm not sure if this belongs here or not so feel free to move it.

This is my idea how we , the American public can lower gas prices . Everyone talks about NOT buying gas fo a day or more . Obviously we can't do that , but what we can do is this . Stop buying it from the top oil company which is EXXON/Mobil and buy it elsewhere . In fact CUT UP your EXXON/Mobil cards and mail them back saying "Screw you ,we are done paying your prices!" I see it this way , If EXXON/Mobil lose money they will HAVE to lower prices to get business back . Once they lower prices thenSunoco,Citgo,Getty ...all the rest have NO choice but to LOWER THEIR PRICES AS WELL !!!!!!! Tell me what you guys think.


Sorry ma'am, but it wouldn't work:

The increased demand on other gasoline producers would drive their average prices UP. Due to decreased demand for their brand, Exxon would cut their prices a bit until people started purchasing from them again, at which point their price would increase to market levels.

The temporary increase in price by other brands would balance out the temporary decrease Exxon would have to make in their price (in order to get people to buy their product again). Some people would save a little money on gas in this situation, and some people would wind up paying a little more... But in the big picture it would pretty much all even out.

[Tcklsh_Kandy]

[QUOTE=MrMacphisto] then alternative energy sources become more affordable . QUOTE]


Again I ask what is stopping manufacturers of this alternative energy sources from gouging us too ? They will feel they have us over a barrel ( no pun intended) the same way oil companies do now . I mean think about it " you either pay our price or theirs". I saw a lot of replies here about solar power . Corect me if I'm wrong ,but dosen't solar = SUNLIGHT. What happens at night ? Trucks have to roll to supply stores with goods .The stores don't get them just during the DAY

[tickledorange]

I dunno, E85 seems to be gaining popularity as Ford Taurus offers it standard now in a lot of their cars.

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050909/BUSINESS06/50909008

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/050909/480/n81909091556

[MrMacphisto]

Again I ask what is stopping manufacturers of this alternative energy sources from gouging us too ? They will feel they have us over a barrel ( no pun intended) the same way oil companies do now . I mean think about it " you either pay our price or theirs". I saw a lot of replies here about solar power . Corect me if I'm wrong ,but dosen't solar = SUNLIGHT. What happens at night ? Trucks have to roll to supply stores with goods .The stores don't get them just during the DAY

Actually... it's funny you mention that.... Oil corporations have quietly dumped a lot of money into alternative energy research. It's as if the corporations themselves are anticipating a nearing end to the use of fossil fuels. The positive aspect of this is that plenty of funds are reaching the scientists in these endeavors, but the negative aspect is that as soon as oil starts getting really expensive (way more than it is now), these corporations will, in effect, gouge us with energy alternatives.... The difference is that these alternatives will be cheaper than oil, but will still produce major profits for them.

This is how capitalism works: corporations screw you either way, but you get less screwed when there are more options. As soon as solar technology becomes feasible for running cars on and affordable when compared to the cost of filling up at the gas station, then auto companies will produce vehicles with solar panels. They'll still be gouging you compared to what they could sell these cars for, but all they care about is profit. There will be plenty of profit to be made when people get fed up with oil.

As for solar technology at night, scientists are developing ways to store solar energy in batteries. For example, a car with one of these systems could sit out in a sunny parking lot all day and be gathering energy as you are working in the office. When you leave work to go home, your car will be charged with a day's worth of solar energy. If the technology is perfected, there will be plenty of energy to go around for all of us, which makes the gouging a bit less painful.

[kurchatovium]

Oil as a commodity will most likely be completely used up by next century. Thus oil companies are pouring money into fuel celll technology and other alternative resources in anticipation of this day. Such is the nature of business.

[General Zod]

[QUOTE=MrMacphisto] then alternative energy sources become more affordable . QUOTE]


Again I ask what is stopping manufacturers of this alternative energy sources from gouging us too ? They will feel they have us over a barrel ( no pun intended) the same way oil companies do now . I mean think about it " you either pay our price or theirs". I saw a lot of replies here about solar power . Corect me if I'm wrong ,but dosen't solar = SUNLIGHT. What happens at night ? Trucks have to roll to supply stores with goods .The stores don't get them just during the DAY
I really don't think ya'll want us truckers to shut down for a few days to try to get prices for fuel to go down Although that may shutup the people who hate us truckers Especially when their favorite yuppie store starts running out of stuff :rolleyes:

[tickledorange]

Nooooo, nobody hates truckers. I wanted to be a trucker. You get paid for driving, eating. and something else (that I can't remember).

[MrMacphisto]

Nooooo, nobody hates truckers. I wanted to be a trucker. You get paid for driving, eating. and something else (that I can't remember).

....paying for strippers. Just kidding... I'm sure truckers would never conceal that stuff within their refundable expenditures. :D

[General Zod]

....paying for strippers. Just kidding... I'm sure truckers would never conceal that stuff within their refundable expenditures. :D

:p :p :p I am sure some truckers have tried to in the past But not me :upsidedow

[General Zod]

Nooooo, nobody hates truckers. I wanted to be a trucker. You get paid for driving, eating. and something else (that I can't remember).

I think there are some people who hate us They want the stuff we haul,but they don't want us on the road Basically we just get paid for driving We do get some for unloading a 53 foot long trailer No dirty jokes please :p

But I hate unloading or loading I can be at a place waiting to be loaded or unloaded for 4 hours or more I don't get paid for that Even though I am legaly on duty

These high diesel prices have affected me as a company driver The company is making the payment on the rig I drive We are sending a lot of trailers by the fething rails 2004 was a very bad year This year isn't any better One of these days I am afraid the trucking industry will blow up

Please don't mind me I am getting more bitter and cynical as I get older :sadcry:

[Tcklsh_Kandy]

I agree there are people who hate the trucks on the road , but they don't realize that those trucks are brinning stuff to the Wal-Marts and Home Depots and stuff . Maybe , just MAYBE a truckers strike WOULD wake some people up , maybe even in Congress to where they will think " OH SHIT!" now we have to do something


Oh and guess what I found out this week ? For all you TMFer's on my coast ( the East Coast of US ) guess were our oil comes from ? Would you believe New Jersey !? Soooo how did Katrina affect us east coasters ???

[MrMacphisto]

A lot of the Southeast was affected by Katrina because the refineries that were shut down did supply some of the South's gas. However, you do have a good point in your case though: I don't see how Katrina would affect Connecticut much.

[BigJim]

First I'm not sure if this belongs here or not so feel free to move it.

This is my idea how we , the American public can lower gas prices . Everyone talks about NOT buying gas fo a day or more . Obviously we can't do that , but what we can do is this . Stop buying it from the top oil company which is EXXON/Mobil and buy it elsewhere . In fact CUT UP your EXXON/Mobil cards and mail them back saying "Screw you ,we are done paying your prices!" I see it this way , If EXXON/Mobil lose money they will HAVE to lower prices to get business back . Once they lower prices thenSunoco,Citgo,Getty ...all the rest have NO choice but to LOWER THEIR PRICES AS WELL !!!!!!! Tell me what you guys think.


This would be a good idea if all those brands weren't largely owned by the same cartel who play the prices under the different brands off against each other. I believe in the trade it's known as "the illusion of choice".

[MrMacphisto]

This would be a good idea if all those brands weren't largely owned by the same cartel who play the prices under the different brands off against each other. I believe in the trade it's known as "the illusion of choice".

Illusion of choice... that's kind of the same principle behind American political parties too, isn't it?

[unit5610]

It seems prices in a market economy are affected not only by supply and demand but also by perceptions. When I worked in weather I saw the way commodity prices on the market could be affected by a long-range weather forecast that had, at that time 15 years ago, about a 55% chance of being reasonably good (or a little better than a coin toss). Nothing had changed supply-wise, only the perception of what the future might bring. Big companies that supply such a vital product as gasoline play this game all the time. There was no reason for retail prices nationwide to go up 25% in basically 2 days, but they could play up the perception that a major shortfall was inevitable due to the huge scope of the Katrina disaster.
I'm not saying that a smaller increase wasn't warranted but it's clear that the oil companies used this event to take advantage of our dependence upon them.