Religion is hypocracy to the 10th degree!

[CabanaBoy]

. . . . . .. .

[Nige]

I am sure many TMF members will have plenty of views with the many points that you have raised here.

All I can say is that I am not religious, and do not believe in any God. Which is why I seldomly respond to any religious threads.

[Newcastle Uni]

I suspect this thread will keep Jeff busy today. I'm sure you'll hear from him if this thread gets out of hand.

The golden rule of the religion section of the forum is

Do not question the existence of God or the relevance of Him to our daily lives. AND NEVER SUGGEST THAT RELIGION IS A LOAD OF RUBBISH

I agree with you by the way, but trying to convince a deeply religious person that she/he is being misled is like hammering steel nails into a block of iron (with your head)

[jim66e]

I am very surprised to see threads of religion allowed on a site that specializes in women in bondage getting tickle-tortured. I have made this point on a few other threads. After giving it more thought I have decided to get involved and post this new thread in support of those who question god's existance and the hypocrytical behavior of those who call him their "lord and savior".

I sit here flabbergasted how people will pray for help to a spirit they have never seen . . . . to a superior being who has the ability to control and stop incidents like Katrina and does not! Personally, I am not the least bit interested in being involved in any "being" who has the ability to stop horrific events but "chooses" to let them happen. Sounds like a ruthless being who has no human compassion to me! I avoid ruthless people and I will also avoid a ruthless god who allows Katrina, WTC, Iraqi war deaths, holocaust, etc.

When people thank "God" for helping save their loved one from a roof after starving for 4 days in the sweltering heat, I wonder shouldn't this "believer" be upset at "god" instead, for bringing thier misfortune to them in the first place!? This is a very logical, sane point and is sure to be challenged by christian-right people on this site who will say things like "my lord and saviour works in mysterious ways" or "my preacher told me . . . . "

Many people in America today have the 3rd grade mentality of "everything good is because of god and everything bad is because of the devil . . . "

There will be be people like Pat Robertson and the other hard-cores who will blame Katrina on homosexuals, etc. saying god is mad, etc. It's all freaky and wierd to realize how people think. It's similar to the hard-core Muslims who believe Allah guided planes into the trade center in NY. Allah did not, those were insane humans who thought a spirit was guiding them to violence.
Then our country responds by baptizing our troops in a pond in Iraq, put an M-16 in their hands and send them out to kill other human beings of a different religion.

I agree with the believers who are insisting god did not do this because he did not, nature did! I also believe god is not available to help fix it either.

Discussing religion leads to tense posts and I recently questioned another thread here wondering, what is a topic like religion doing on a site where these same Christians are getting off on naked women in bondage. It is that sort of hypocracy that creeps me out and baffles me.

It's the same hypocracy of Pat Robertson praying on Sunday then suggesting the assassination of another human being in a foreign country. Or Swaggert collecting money from his "believers" then spending it on a blow job or anal sex. And Bush saying stop abortion to save a fetis and while you're at it, go drop a bunch of bombs on adults civilians in foreign countries.

Religion is hypocracy in the 10th degree!

We can talk all day about religion and politics, but like I said, I am baffled by the fact threads like these are allowed on a site with naked women in bondage. :cuddle: :cuddle: :cuddle:

Well considering that Nige is nonreligious, I guess I'm leading off for the religious folk on the forum. I can't speak for everyone, but I'll try to put some off my thoughts out there.

Oh and I'll be coming from the Christian point of view, specifically Roman Catholicism.

Good and evil both have places in this world, for without one, you cannot have the other. If there were no evil, then nothing would be good, it would all be neutral. So, to use the old saying, Evil is a nessesary evil that acts as a lens allowing us to see good in the world.

I don't know if you are a parent or not, and I'm not, so this is just theory, but good parents don't shelter their children from everything. There comes a time when kids have to be allowed to try things and expirience the real world. This lets them mature, make some mistakes, and hopefully learn from them. Sometimes this has horrible consequences that the parent would not want to happen. For example, if a teen was out driving and was hit by another driver and killed. That is a horrible tradagy and happens all the time, but that does not mean that parents should always drive their children around. Maturity and growth does not come from being coddled. I think that God follows this lesson as well. We are not simply pets, to be sheltered away from real life for divine amusement, but living thinking beings anioxious to explore the world, even if that does risk some peril and suffering.

This next idea actually comes from my girlfriend, so I hope I state it well. As children of God, our rightful place is not here on this earth. This is just a temperary place where we spend a short part of our existence. Compared with spending unmeasurable eons in heaven with God, a short few decades on earth are miniscule. Also consider the Beatatudes, where it states that people who's earthy lives are marked by suffering and hardship will recive extra in heaven.

As for blaming God for bringing down this hardship instead of thanking him for saving their lives, again, this is only theory. I feel that love and gratatude are stronger than hate and blame. And it depends on what kind of person you are and how you react to things. If the glass is half empty, its why did you do this to me God? If the glass is half full, its it could have been so much worse, thank you God for watching over me. I feel that faith and religion help people be positive in a negative world, so religious people are more likely to react possitivly and optimistically to hardship.

And while I have never seen God personally, I have seen and heard of plenty of examples of His helping guiding hand interacting with our world. I don't have to have Him appear before me to have all the proof I need of His existance. Seeing is not always beliving, as I know there are things I can't see that are real, and there are things I see that aren't real.

Cabanaboy, I gathered from your post that you get off on naked women in bondage, but don't presume that your tastes are followed by everyone. I like my ticklees to be clothed and since I feel tickling is fun and playfull, do not get off on seeing any kind of woman in bondage.

Well I think I'm done for now. I hope to see lots of other responses and a good discusion progressing from this.

[isabeau]

Cabanaboy i respect your opinion, however i only have one question. if there is no God how did you get here? evolution? and in fact then if evolution, how did the earth the universe and all such other things of that nature come into being? just an honest question to how you think you got here on earth. have a nice day

isabeau :bunny:

p.s. thanks for responding to my thread i'll let you know sometime

[Nige]

It looks like another debate has started. I guess we will all find out on the existence of God/s when our own judgement day comes.

[Newcastle Uni]

The defence for religion is very weak.

Ok, so lets say there HAS to be evil.

Lets also say that we cannot be controlled always, and that bad things will inevitably happen to nice people.

Where does God come in. Where is the evidence for God. Yeah this universe is a crazy place that you and I don't understand, but that in itself is not enough to support a belief in God.

Where is the evidence that God exists. What has God ever done to let us know he exists? Nothing! Oh sure, he did it all 2,000 years ago. Isn't that about the time that people were ignorant of all that we know now and heck, why wouldn't crops fail because you didn't pray hard enough?!Why do you believe in God? Where is the evidence? What makes you believe that the bible is the word of God? I can't see any.

Ok, fair enough. God doesn't want to interfere too much. But he could at least interfere a bit. Why not pop down to let us all know that he is tickkety-boo and that if we don't mind awfully worshiping him? I'd worship him if he came down and said "Worship me".

Truth is, the people writing the bible were religious fanatics with an unfounded belief in God. They explained what they saw around them in terms of God and for whatever motives believed that God was talking to them.

There is almost nil evidence that God exists and certainly NO evidence that the bible is the word of God. When i say evidence, there is not even any circumstancial evidence or evidence of any credibility at all!

Sorry to rant. I think religion can be ok, under the right circumstances. It comforts people and helps people live their lives. But I don't see anything to make me accept it.

[Newcastle Uni]

Cabanaboy i respect your opinion, however i only have one question. if there is no God how did you get here? evolution? and in fact then if evolution, how did the earth the universe and all such other things of that nature come into being? just an honest question to how you think you got here on earth. have a nice day

isabeau :bunny:

p.s. thanks for responding to my thread i'll let you know sometime

Isabeau. Tut tut tut. You know I don't want to upset you. :twohugs:

But.........just because we don't know how the universe got here, how the earth got here or precisely how life then arose (even though we can trace life, the universe and everything back to just before the big bang, literally fractions of a second before it all started) doesn't mean that God is the answer.

I don't know who stole my ice cream. Maybe it was God. In fact. It was God. Its a complete mystery where my ice cream went, so I guess God must have taken it. I won't bother looking for it or asking people if they took it, i'll just say God is responsible.

Thats ridiculous, I know! But it is the same logic you are using. Just because we don't understand things does not mean that God is responsible. One day we will understand.

And just because something is hard to understand doesn't mean that God is the explanation.

[Robace252]

Having seen Cabana Boy rant (and rightfully) so in many threads on this subject Im glad he opened up one that deals with just the simple question "If pornography is a sin, and you are a christian, they why are you willfully sinning and being here in the first place."
I agree this is an interesting question. I will try to answer this in my usual ellquent ways.
As in those that do not believe in God (atheist, Scientologist, Darwinist) they all have their set of beliefs that they live by. And to many of those that do not believe in God, have replaced god with another symbol or something they guide their life by. God doesnt necesarly be an omnipitant being, he can be Darwin, Money, themselves, Computers, Technology and various sorts of things in their everyday lives. Some here worship the "International House of Tickling"...which I donate to every month or so :o .
With that being said although the Church will guide their overall beliefs I believe that many that believe in God also believe that if they sin, God will forgive them. And in that if they tickle or watch tickling out of lust, they will be forgiven. And also they might believe that nothing in the bible prohibits tickling in any form. (Ive read it, nothing about tickilng) So in the same context that they are being hypocritical, they are also believing what is in their hearts and their beliefs.
Again Im one of those who thinks that there is something out there, but I have not the full scope so I will go on contently believing what I do, which is...If there is a God or someone like that, I hope he understands that I live my life how I believe I should. I have a heart, compassion and morals. Where they might not agree with him or those that strictly follow him Im going to assume that if their god is as merciful and loving as they tell me, when that time comes and theyre right and Im wrong that he will understand, and let me go in peace.
Following a belief shouldnt be critized, it should be understood. Not following a belief shouldnt be critizied, it should be understood. Calling someone stupid or childish for believing in God is in itself both stupid and childish. And as for believing in something you can not see..Ive never seen the wind, but I can see it move a tree. I cant see oxygen yet I can breathe. So maybe people cannot see god..but when someone here in Mississippi, where Im at helping the Red Cross, whos home and life was just destroyed gives me $20.00 to help others because he knows that God has at least given him another day with hope...I think I just saw God moving one persons heart to help another.
The signs are there if your not to blind to maybe for one second look, smile and think, well at least theyre happy.
Again to just let you know, I think God is not a being but more of a feeling. I think if there is a "God" he is in my heart and is more of a guide to being a good person to yourself and others. I more believe in a Soul and Karma and think that things attached to that are more evident and effective in my life. But at the same time, if there is a God, Im at least going to try to be understanding and accept someones else beliefs as their beliefs, not mine.
And let them be happy.

[Haltickling]

IMO, it all comes down to what you expect from a religion. If you expect God to manage everyone's life (and yours in particular), then you'll be in for a big disappointment. You just have to do that yourself.

However, religion helps many people to cope with their lives. It gives them psychological (=spiritual) help, consolation, some guidance, hope, and reduces their innermost fears. This aspect alone is enough to justify the existence of religion, even if you're not religious yourself (like me).

I agree with you that religion gets abused very often by so-called "believers", e.g. for political or monetarian reasons. I also agree that you can find many hypocrites among them. But saying that all religious people are hypocrites is an absolutely wrong conclusion. All criminals are people, but not all people are criminals.

I can only hope that you come to terms with your own life, be it religious or not. Intolerance like that expressed in your post often means some degree of self-hatred.

Peace! :cool:

[isabeau]

Isabeau. Tut tut tut. You know I don't want to upset you. :twohugs:

But.........just because we don't know how the universe got here, how the earth got here or precisely how life then arose (even though we can trace life, the universe and everything back to just before the big bang, literally fractions of a second before it all started) doesn't mean that God is the answer.

I don't know who stole my ice cream. Maybe it was God. In fact. It was God. Its a complete mystery where my ice cream went, so I guess God must have taken it. I won't bother looking for it or asking people if they took it, i'll just say God is responsible.

Thats ridiculous, I know! But it is the same logic you are using. Just because we don't understand things does not mean that God is responsible. One day we will understand.

And just because something is hard to understand doesn't mean that God is the explanation.


sighs uni now you know that my logic does make sense. comparing it to who stole your ice cream is utterly ridiculous. please tell me how we got here hon? thats all i'm asking. i believe God made us. but i would love to hear your theory on how we came to be? and btw darwin is full of bunk imho.
also robace nice post

isabeau and still love ya uni :Kiss1:

[Haltickling]

There's also a BIG thread discussing the connections of tickling and religion, you might be interested in that: http://www.ticklingforum.com/showthread.php?t=2918

[ShadowTklr]

I am very surprised to see threads of religion allowed on a site that specializes in women in bondage getting tickle-tortured. I have made this point on a few other threads. After giving it more thought I have decided to get involved and post this new thread in support of those who question god's existance and the hypocrytical behavior of those who call him their "lord and savior"...

...We can talk all day about religion and politics, but like I said, I am baffled by the fact threads like these are allowed on a site with naked women in bondage. :cuddle: :cuddle: :cuddle:


I'm not sure you can condemn those people who consider themselves Christians just because they frequent this site. It's obvious that there are different levels of Christians, which is, in itself hypocrisy, I know. However, those who are here, yet profess to be Christians are simply saying that they have an affiliation with the religion, NOT that they are devout practitioners of it. So, I wouldn't look for any epiphany from Christians on this site, because the true followers of Christianity aren't here.

[Nige]

Yes and I am a generous, caring person who has no reason to fear how I have lived. I have dedicated 13 years of my life as a firefighter/paramedic saving lives while risking mine. I have helped others on countless occassions away from my work. I am honest and sincere and have no reason to fear any sort of punishment and I do not believe there is a punishment that exists after life on earth.

I refuse to allow a man-made book tell me to beware of spirits that I do not believe exist.

Going off the subject, I would like to thank you for the excellent job you folk do.

[Nige]

The theory of evolution has some proof as far as skeletons, skulls, etc. I have never researched that deep enough to comment but I have never seen proof of an invisible spirit floating around controlling things. . . . and neither has anyone else. To think a supreme being took a rib from a man and made a woman out of it is much too fantasy-like for my imagination and I am as creative of a person as one can be.

I agree. There is supporting evidence for evolution,

[Robace252]

1st off, Thank You Cabana Boy for you words about the current situation Im helping in. And I agree with your last statement. They go to church, come home and then go on the TMF, then the next week get forgiven and come back. It might seem wierd but its like in a wierd way the person who loves Spicy Foods, eats it...takes some Pepto or Rolaids, then the next day does it all again. They know its gonna hurt or wrong..but they do it because their overall enjoyment of life is really the defining role, and to most God and tickling can exist. Now if we could all just open up our own "Church of the Divine Ticklers", If so I would be Deacon of Studies and Feathering. Just a suggestion. :p
As long as in their hearts they believe that they are doing no harm, then to them god sees it the same. Thats not a cop-out for them, its just their reality, and when you think about it, its not really all that bad.

[ShadowTklr]

Great point, the real followers of faith aren't here but some of the "the lord is my saviour" comments on this site led me to believe maybe they were.

I do not want to condemn people for enjoying this great site and maybe I came across a little too harsh. When I read those "the lord is my saviour" and "lord is king" comments on this site, I was surprised so I got curious how other members feel about having religious threads on this site along with nude bondage, etc.

I personally find it a little unusual to see these comments mixed in with the other threads.


I know what you're saying. I really didn't think you were too harsh, to be honest. It's a fair question that should be asked of anyone who engages in such hypocrisy if they're using religion to castigate others. I know there are some Christian-esque people here who have "episodes" of religious indignation every now and then when religion is at a heated debate, but I'm yet to run into a real live "Follower."

[ShadowTklr]

1st off, Thank You Cabana Boy for you words about the current situation Im helping in. And I agree with your last statement. They go to church, come home and then go on the TMF, then the next week get forgiven and come back. It might seem wierd but its like in a wierd way the person who loves Spicy Foods, eats it...takes some Pepto or Rolaids, then the next day does it all again. They know its gonna hurt or wrong..but they do it because their overall enjoyment of life is really the defining role, and to most God and tickling can exist. Now if we could all just open up our own "Church of the Divine Ticklers", If so I would be Deacon of Studies and Feathering. Just a suggestion. :p
As long as in their hearts they believe that they are doing no harm, then to them god sees it the same. Thats not a cop-out for them, its just their reality, and when you think about it, its not really all that bad.


I think you've hit it on the head, Rob. And I also think that's exactly the way life should be. There is no reason why someone should feel shamed or degraded by religion simply because they wish to participate in something as benign as this. Excellent point. And, let me know when that church is opening so I can get out my Sunday best.

[isabeau]

i believe in God and i do not use Him as some sort of crutch. however i will never force my beliefs on another. that is not my way. either you choose to believe or not. i do not go to church i feel like many others that hypocrites sit in those pews and then lead some sort of secret life. and then go back and ask forgiveness. now i'm not saying allll are hypocrites that go to church, of course i dont believe that. but there are many who sit in church on sunday feeling righteous and religious then go out and beat their wives or cheat on them or whatever they do in their secret worlds. or hate which is by far a great sin. to hate is such a waste of emotions. and i appreciate a forum where many diverse discussions take place, not only about tickling but other things as well. i hope i havent gotten off the subject here. i absolutely do not believe in pushing my faith down anothers throat.

isabeau :redheart:

[mpeyton]

I know what you're saying. I really didn't think you were too harsh, to be honest. It's a fair question that should be asked of anyone who engages in such hypocrisy if they're using religion to castigate others. I know there are some Christian-esque people here who have "episodes" of religious indignation every now and then when religion is at a heated debate, but I'm yet to run into a real live "Follower."

For a bunch of people who hate religion so much, you sure moan a lot about it. What the hecks is this thread doing here anyway. Odd! Thanks for the warning about the pornography on this site. I've only checked out the discussions on this site so far. I'll know not to open up anything else in here!
Wouldn't want to be accused of being a hypocrite! Again thanks for the warning!

[MrMacphisto]

Um... I'm obviously not a big fan of religion, but dude... This is really baiting people for flaming. I do a considerable amount of baiting people too, but I at least try to be more subtle about it.

[Robace252]

Ok Cabana I feel your pain. Your tired of seeing religion everywhere. Football games, on your money (you failed to mention), on the street etc.
First Id like to know where you live and what steet this is downtown that you get peddled all time. Ive lived for 33 years and Ive never had anyone do this to me. Ive travelled around the world with the USAF and on my own. I know it happens, but Ive never expierenced it. And if they are there every weekend bothering you, call the ACLU, they love this kind of stuff to go after Im sure they will kick them out for you. If not heres a novel idea...if you know they are there, avoid it. Im sure there is more than one way to this establishment unless they lay down by the front door then you should talk to the owner/manager of these places.
As for athletes that pray...you want to take their personal right to do that is as bad as not wanting someone to force their relgious beliefs on you. If you dont want to have religion then fine, it shouldnt be forced on you. But on the same level you shouldn't expect or want them to succumb to your beliefs just because you want it that way.
Im sure you can find a way to avoid these things if necessary, flip the channel for a second, go to the bathroom, read some literature.

As for "Expecting" to come here for a break from the christians and then getting posts like the lord (I wont write it for fear :rant: of offending you again) on your computer, I will say the same thing I tell those about violence, and sex....DONT READ IT!!! If you come here for the video clips Ive never seen a religious tickling video clip so you have not been forced. You make a choice to read something, scroll down and read a comment, answer or read posts. Just because you have the right to escape does not mean no one should have the right to express themseles as well. Im sure when a great looking ticklee is having her feet tickled with toothbrushes and screams "Oh my god that tickles" you dont stop the clip. You dont stop masterbating, and scream...I cant believe she said god. HOW OUTRAGEOUS!
And by the way those that believe in God Im sure feel they would like a break from the non-believing, god hating people in society that attack them at every corner and strip their rights away they have had since this country was founded to appease those like you that dont want to see any form of religion anywhere near you eyes. Everyone is always going to see something they dont like. I personally do not like seeing "Left-wing Liberal whacko's" none of which I think reside on the TMF :scared: LOL (I love all you guys you know that) post outragous things or things that I think are wrong.
If religion is wrong on this forum, then so is politics. The MODS created this part of the forum for this excat kind of discussion so those of you that dont want to see dont have too. But yet you enter a forum that expressly says "Religon" on it heading. You cant have your cake and eat it too in this case. If I dont like something or I want to escape from it...I avoid. Not because I think everyone shouldnt bother me, its just that I feel if I really dont want to see or deal with it, then I should be the one to start by not going or reading something that I find offensive.
Lastly, Im not trying to make this a nasty thread..Im not trying to disavow you Cabana or anyone else that shares you point of view. Fair is a carnval not life. You never going to have everyone agree, and except for forums that are "atheist" or "sceintific" you will not avoid religon. Its just the way it is. I propose that if you are really tired of seeing religous things, simply ask the MODS if they will open a new forum heading under General Discussion that will read "NON RELIGIOUS FORUM--FOR THOSE THAT ENJOY TICKILNG BUT NOT RELIGION" And that should make everyone happy. Heck, Im in pretty good with the MODS and they all respect me, for you Ill suggest it.

[asutickler]

In regards to the first post of this thread:

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/2445/troll9xs.jpg

[hivoltage]

Wow, this thread got long in a hurry...

Cabana, people stick to what their mommy and daddy taught them, or what they "learned" from their friends, pretty much for their whole lives.

While lots of people on this sub-forum are genuinely interested in information on both sides of the god vs. no-god debate - most people aren't going to change their basic way of thinking, no matter what.

You gonna try to make people change their minds? Forget it. But you can get people to develop their thinking further, like a literal Christian believing that there are other ways to heaven besides faith in Jesus (what happens to aborted fetuses?), or that hell is just a metaphor.

[killedbyanangel]

Forget it....

[Ignatz]

Well, let me see if I can shed some light on the original question. What is a good Christian doing in this den of iniquity?
The people on this forum seem to break down into a few categories (independent of religious belief):
1. Married or romantically involved couples who find tickling erotic and come here to commune with kindred souls and perhaps pick up a few practical ideas to enhance their pleasure.
2. Married or romantically involved individuals whose spouses or lovers are not into tickling and who come here seeking an outlet for their frustrated urge, and perhaps some advice on winning over their mate.
3. Single guys and gals with no way to indulge their passion who come here for solace and release.

God will judge each of us by what is in our hearts. One thing that is clear from the Gospels is that Christ did not and does not get bent out of shape over sins of the flesh. He does not condone them and he did not revoke any commandments...but he dealt gently and forgivingly with all such people he encountered. He saved His fury for the moneylenders who defiled the holy places and the Pharisees and others who led His children away from God.

Nothing I have read posted on this or similar sites has offered anything but condemnation of forced bondage and non-consensual tickling. That said, the photos and clips and videos do certainly imply force in most of their scenarios. That such things appeal to us is a part of that human nature with which we all struggle, religious or not. Should it be stifled and repressed...or indulged in a harmless, personal way? God only knows. We do the best we can with what we've got.
The short answer to the original question is: That's between me and the Lord. (Your own business must be around somewhere in need of minding.)

What would be a greater sin in God's eyes would be for anyone who believes in Him to sit by silently when Faith is attacked. When you knock the ball into our court, we are going to return it. So please understand that Christians' marching orders include asserting their faith and defending it to the rest of the world. None of us is hanging out his shingle as a saint. Each of us is a work in progress.

[jim66e]

I'm not sure you can condemn those people who consider themselves Christians just because they frequent this site. It's obvious that there are different levels of Christians, which is, in itself hypocrisy, I know. However, those who are here, yet profess to be Christians are simply saying that they have an affiliation with the religion, NOT that they are devout practitioners of it. So, I wouldn't look for any epiphany from Christians on this site, because the true followers of Christianity aren't here.


What do you consider a true follower of Christianity? Because frankly I find that statement to be quite offensive considerining there are many Christians that frequent this site.

[Red Jester]

Arguing about religion is like competing in the Special Olympics, even if you win you're still a retard. Honestly, I'll never understand the need athiests have to rant at people who believe in God. People believe in God because of their faith. Faith means you believe in something when there's no evidence to support it or if there's evidence to the contrary. As such you can't present them with any information to change their minds. And thats the way the bible says God wants it. Its stated multiple times in the bible that God's power comes from the fact that people believe in him. Its twisted and conveniant logic, I know, but its just how the book was written.

Now, I've been an atheist since I was four (that was when I first heard about the bible and was told it was all fiction) but even then I knew it was okay for other people to believe in God. They're at peace, they don't care about evolution, don't ruin it for them just because you like to feel smart.

About the porn forum thing, yeah, there are certain levels of Christians. Some Christians go to church on sunday then go home and watch football and some Christians read the bible every night before bed and have never eaten meat on friday. Some people are devout, some people are not. If God does exist I doubt he'd like his followers cybering with people hundreds of miles away from them. I'm not saying anyone here is committing a mortal sin, I'm just saying I'm sure God would want you doing something a little more productive.

[ShadowTklr]

What do you consider a true follower of Christianity? Because frankly I find that statement to be quite offensive considerining there are many Christians that frequent this site.

I'm sorry you feel offended by the statement. It wasn't meant to offend anyone. It was meant as a benign truth, not a slight. In fact, its such common knowledge, that I'm surprised you're offended at all.

I'm sure there are many Christians here who go to church on ocassion (perhaps even every week), and believe in Jesus Christ and try to live their lives as good people. That's not the follower I'm talking about; that's the average Christian - Christians by affiliation.

A true follower of Christianity is someone who places his or her life in step with his religion. He does not partake of pleasures of the flesh for the sake of titillation (sin), does not covet (sin), and does not lust (see covet - sin).

I hope that clarifies what I meant. If you're still offended, then perhaps I'm the one who doesn't understand after all. I'd like an education on how the two diametrically opposed ideas can occupy the same space without being blatantly hypocritical. Once again, no offense.

[ShadowTklr]

Arguing about religion is like competing in the Special Olympics, even if you win you're still a retard...

...About the porn forum thing, yeah, there are certain levels of Christians. Some Christians go to church on sunday then go home and watch football and some Christians read the bible every night before bed and have never eaten meat on friday. Some people are devout, some people are not. If God does exist I doubt he'd like his followers cybering with people hundreds of miles away from them. I'm not saying anyone here is committing a mortal sin, I'm just saying I'm sure God would want you doing something a little more productive.

In fairness to those participants of the special olympics whom I'm sure would consider your insensitive reference to be an insult, I have a question.

Since your opinion is now memorialized among the fray of this thread, would it be a fair statement to say that you have joined the ranks of the retards, or was it simply that nothing important was posted, until YOU posted it?

[jim66e]

I'm sorry you feel offended by the statement. It wasn't meant to offend anyone. It was meant as a benign truth, not a slight. In fact, its such common knowledge, that I'm surprised you're offended at all.

I'm sure there are many Christians here who go to church on ocassion (perhaps even every week), and believe in Jesus Christ and try to live their lives as good people. That's not the follower I'm talking about; that's the average Christian - Christians by affiliation.

A true follower of Christianity is someone who places his or her life in step with his religion. He does not partake of pleasures of the flesh for the sake of titillation (sin), does not covet (sin), and does not lust (see covet - sin).

I hope that clarifies what I meant. If you're still offended, then perhaps I'm the one who doesn't understand after all. I'd like an education on how the two diametrically opposed ideas can occupy the same space without being blatantly hypocritical. Once again, no offense.

I think the difference comes in views about tickling. If you view tickling as something sexual, as many here do, then I can see where you are coming from. However, if one feels that tickling is just a fun playfull expirience, then there is no lust or coveting involved, and I think you would have to find a very broad diffinition of pleasures of the flesh to include fun tickling. So if someone doesn't look on tickling as an erotic activity for them, then it isn't sinful and is not hypocracy to visit a place that exspouses tickling, as long as tickling does not take the spot of prime importance in the person's life. It is then the same as most hobbies.

[Red Jester]

In fairness to those participants of the special olympics whom I'm sure would consider your insensitive reference to be an insult, I have a question.

Since your opinion is now memorialized among the fray of this thread, would it be a fair statement to say that you have joined the ranks of the retards, or was it simply that nothing important was posted, until YOU posted it?

Uh... no. I'm not arguing about the religion itself. Merely pointing something out about the people who believe in it. But I can imagine how smug you feel thinking you just one-upped me or something. You can continue if you wish.

[isabeau]

personally i will never judge anyone, no matter what their faith is or lack thereof. i am sooo far from perfect, i have no right to do that. i'm not sure if i am committing a sin by being here on this forum. as a married woman whose husband does not share my "fetish" probably i am committing a sin. however, i dont think that God is sitting up there saying oo no melanie is on a tickling forum, committing lust in her heart from reading erotic tickle stories. i may be wrong, He may very well be saying that. and yes to me tickling does become sexual when i think about it. sooo i'm not sure if i'm doomed or not. i do believe however that there are by far worse sins in this world. but again i may be wrong, maybe all sins are equal. i have no idea.
and i would like to say to robace well said. i couldnt agree more.

isabeau :wiseowl:

[hivoltage]

Red Jester, surely you are aware that religion has taken a new prominence in the control and direction of our government, which affects the lives of all Americans to some degree.

There is a good chance that if not for the gay marriage issue, George Bush might have lost the Presidency (he'd almost definitely lose today, even while maybe winning the popular vote).

I don't want to be governed by people who base their decisions on a 2,000 year old tome of truth. I prefer much more logic and much less faith. This has occurred, to some degree, in Northern Europe. But not here. Not yet.

[Red Jester]

Religion is taking less prominence in our government today than ever before. It may not seem that way with all of the religious disputes taking place, but thats only because way back when they were held to be self evident. 50 years ago would a judge having the ten commandments in his courtroom really be a basis for arguement? Religion is getting less and less popular in the U.S. Its gotten to the point where a lot of society can do without it. I think the constant bickering going on about religious issues is merely a sign that its foundation in our government has become shaky.

[Robace252]

Red Jester I must respectfully disagree with your statements. It is not a majority of society that disagree's with or does not want religion. It is the minority of this country that has decided that they can no longer tolerate it like they have in the past. If you look at the last election it should be evident. The only reason that Bushie won was the ENORMOUS ammounts of christians and religious members that came out in DROVES to vote for him. All of the exit polls showed that Bush would lose, but that is because a pollster never asks a religious person anything unless its about religion. The fighting you are currently seeing is not from those seeing religion loosing its foothold, it is more from the religious that used to pray quietly and not try to sway others are finally sick of those trying to take away the rights of all types of religious people...rights they have had with no arguments until the last 20 or so years when the minority of this country decided that they felt that any religion was too much religion.
Or at least thats what I see.

[ShadowTklr]

I think the difference comes in views about tickling. If you view tickling as something sexual, as many here do, then I can see where you are coming from. However, if one feels that tickling is just a fun playfull expirience, then there is no lust or coveting involved, and I think you would have to find a very broad diffinition of pleasures of the flesh to include fun tickling. So if someone doesn't look on tickling as an erotic activity for them, then it isn't sinful and is not hypocracy to visit a place that exspouses tickling, as long as tickling does not take the spot of prime importance in the person's life. It is then the same as most hobbies.

I understand what you're trying to say, but it simply doesn't fly. First of all, the idea of adults tickling other adults for "fun" is never gonna cut it with the Christian crowd. If you think about it, you'll know it to be true. It will be considered depraved and amoral. Secondly, this sight offers too much temptation in other areas. Those people who find tickling to be innocent fun are in the extreme minority of visitors here. Tickling is a fetish, not a sporting event. I stand by my former statement. There are no devout Christians here that are not hypocrites.

[ShadowTklr]

Uh... no. I'm not arguing about the religion itself. Merely pointing something out about the people who believe in it. But I can imagine how smug you feel thinking you just one-upped me or something. You can continue if you wish.

You're right. You weren't arguing about religion. You were just calling the posters in this thread retarded. Sorry. My mistake. So, I guess you're only retarded by association then. Consider me corrected.

[jim66e]

I understand what you're trying to say, but it simply doesn't fly. First of all, the idea of adults tickling other adults for "fun" is never gonna cut it with the Christian crowd. If you think about it, you'll know it to be true. It will be considered depraved and amoral. Secondly, this sight offers too much temptation in other areas. Those people who find tickling to be innocent fun are in the extreme minority of visitors here. Tickling is a fetish, not a sporting event. I stand by my former statement. There are no devout Christians here that are not hypocrites.


Then I guess I have to stand by my earlier statement of being much offended since twice now you have said I was either not a true Christian or a hypocrite.

[ShadowTklr]

The religious right have made it their agenda to entrench themselves in government as a means of reconditioning American culture. If the religious right can infuse religion into law, thereby shattering the dividing line between church and state, they will then be in a position realize their ultimate goal of legislating religion, rather than simply preaching it.

I see religion as the backbone of this administration, seeking to impose its will against the people, not in concert with the wishes of the people. That is a dramatic departure from the feel-good mentality preached in churches. This militant level of Christianity is slowly burrowing its way into mainstream religious views, making the chasm between atheists and Christians even wider than before.

I believe that most people are generally in agreement that each person bears the right to worship as they choose. It should not be the purpose of Atheists to impose their view of the world upon the religious faithful. Conversely, religion and God as individual choices, should not to be visited upon society at large simply because followers of that religion believe they are right.

My original point, which I haven’t seen disputed, let alone disproved, is that mainstream Christians are typically good people with a strong view of their religion, and the ability to distinguish between religious fanaticism and living good lives. These are the Christians who frequent this site, not the “by-the-book” followers.

[isabeau]

well said shadowtklr. i would like to think i am a good person. but i have desires which havent been met and dreams. does that mean i will go to hell? because i visit this forum on a regular basis, and live out my fantasies vicariously so to speak, does this mean i'm doomed for all time? i am a Christian, but not the shout out praise the lord type. *shudders* i went that route in college and i must say i never came across such fakers in my life. now i just live by faith alone. but coming to this forum , does it make me a bad person? does it mean i'm heading for the fires of hell? i would truly like to know. for years i thought masturbation was a sin, yet where in the Bible does it say that?

isabeau

[ShadowTklr]

Then I guess I have to stand by my earlier statement of being much offended since twice now you have said I was either not a true Christian or a hypocrite.

Jim, since you insist on making yourself the target of my point, I must bear the brunt of your offense if my point is to maintain any credibility. I'm not trying to hurt your feelings, and I certainly do not dislike you, but if you are going to insist that you are a devout follower of Christianity, and being such, you feel that engaging in sites that depict images and descriptions of bondage, tickle torture, and foot worship are not inconsistent with the letter and spirit of Christianity, then I must respectfully suggest that you seek the counsel of a religious advisor, because you've obviously parted company with some of the tenets of Christianity long ago. There is only one word befitting the convenient dismissal of certain religious standards that govern others in favor of one that governs only your personal behavior – hypocrisy.

I apologize (sincerely) in advance for making this the third time I’ve said it.

P.S. You may have the last word on this if you wish. I will not respond. I don’t want this to get any more personal than it already has. Be well, and I hope we meet again under more agreeable conditions.

[ShadowTklr]

well said shadowtklr. i would like to think i am a good person. but i have desires which havent been met and dreams. does that mean i will go to hell? because i visit this forum on a regular basis, and live out my fantasies vicariously so to speak, does this mean i'm doomed for all time? i am a Christian, but not the shout out praise the lord type. *shudders* i went that route in college and i must say i never came across such fakers in my life. now i just live by faith alone. but coming to this forum , does it make me a bad person? does it mean i'm heading for the fires of hell? i would truly like to know. for years i thought masturbation was a sin, yet where in the Bible does it say that?

isabeau

Hi Isabeau, and thanks.
To be honest, the answers to your questions lie in your personal belief system. I don’t think you’re going to hell, because I don’t believe hell exists. I don’t think you’re doomed for all time because I don’t believe in the concept of everlasting damnation. The question now, is what do YOU believe? If you think that Christianity is correct when it teaches that such self-indulgence is amoral, then you have to act accordingly. If you believe that the goodness in your heart and your everyday behavior is in line with the general principles of Christianity, then you should let that mindset be your guide.

Regarding masturbation; there may still be time to avoid blindness. If you have hair on your palms, then that’s the waning sign. :shock:

[jim66e]

Jim, since you insist on making yourself the target of my point, I must bear the brunt of your offense if my point is to maintain any credibility. I'm not trying to hurt your feelings, and I certainly do not dislike you, but if you are going to insist that you are a devout follower of Christianity, and being such, you feel that engaging in sites that depict images and descriptions of bondage, tickle torture, and foot worship are not inconsistent with the letter and spirit of Christianity, then I must respectfully suggest that you seek the counsel of a religious advisor, because you've obviously parted company with some of the tenets of Christianity long ago. There is only one word befitting the convenient dismissal of certain religious standards that govern others in favor of one that governs only your personal behavior – hypocrisy.

I apologize (sincerely) in advance for making this the third time I’ve said it.

P.S. You may have the last word on this if you wish. I will not respond. I don’t want this to get any more personal than it already has. Be well, and I hope we meet again under more agreeable conditions.

Thank you for not trying to offend, and know that I am not angry at you. I still feel that the issue comes down to a difference in terms than a compleate incombadability between ideas.

Tickling is not a sexual thing for everyone, and while that may be a small part of the people here, at least the vocal ones, it is a part of tickling. It is not possible to differentiate between the sexual side of tickling and the fun side, there just aren't enough people interested to create 2 seperate communities. I understand how some people may have trouble seeing how tickling could be nonsexual for some people, just as many vanilla people have trouble seeing how it can be sexual. But the fact remains that for some people, like me, it is a hobby, not a fetish. And I do not see how consensual fun tickling can be construed as a sin, as long as it does not become the prime importance in a person's life. If no sexual pleasure is dirived from the expirince, how is watching a tickling clip (especally the clothed nonsexual ones, and a shoutout to all the producers who make those, Keep up the good work!) different from watching a pro sport? The particapants are being payed for their efforts, it is concentual and the view is having fun (not sexual pleasure) from watching it.

Now, some could say that by visiting a site that also endorses the sexual side of tickling, I support the sexual aspect by default. That if I were a devout Christian I would condem this site and everyone here. Well for starters, I don't condem, thats not a true Christian practice. And I supose my presence supports the sexual aspect of tickling, though I honestly don't feel it is.

Shadow, since by your definition you are not a true Christian, perhaps you are not clear on what defines Christianity, especally considering it is spread out over hundreds of denominations. This isn't an attack or beating, just a observation that since we seem to come from different directions we have different paradigms.

To sum up, tickling is not sexual to all, it is merely a hobby to some. And if it is just a hobby, baring all hobies being sinful, it is not inherently wrong.

Shadow, I know you said you would not respond, but if you have a constructive response or arguement, I would encourage you to. I don't want to turn this into personal fighting, but continue intellegent disscussion.

[JohnnyB]

What seems to bypass a lot of the religion followers (and by religion, I mean christians, because we they seem to be most vocal) is that you follow christianity. Which comes from the Bible. To you, the Bible is everything and the answer to everything. These are God's words, and to deny that means you are not a Christian. Sex is a sin, so is the tittilation of sexual imagery. Therefore, anyone on this site is either not a christian, or is going to hell! It's what the Bible says, and therefore is true!!!

And another thing, (if you haven't guessed, I'm an atheist) if God is great and omnipresent, why does he let bad things happen? I've asked a lot of people this and the general answer is "God moves in mysterious ways!" I'll say! He lets people die during the Katrina hurricane, he lets millions die during the Holocost, he let's millions die during the Stalin regime, people die during most of the dictatorships of Africa, and in South America, a couple of hundred thousand people have died in Iraq, he tried to wipe out man kind with the biblical flood!
In fact even from the start he had it against us! He lied to Adam about the tree of life, and when the serpent (which God created) told Eve the truth and she and Adam ate from it, he boots them out of Heaven! Before then they didn't know ight from wrong, so why were they punished?

Religion has everything, but answers!

[ShadowTklr]

Thank you for not trying to offend, and know that I am not angry at you. I still feel that the issue comes down to a difference in terms than a compleate incombadability between ideas.

Tickling is not a sexual thing for everyone, and while that may be a small part of the people here, at least the vocal ones, it is a part of tickling. It is not possible to differentiate between the sexual side of tickling and the fun side, there just aren't enough people interested to create 2 seperate communities. I understand how some people may have trouble seeing how tickling could be nonsexual for some people, just as many vanilla people have trouble seeing how it can be sexual. But the fact remains that for some people, like me, it is a hobby, not a fetish. And I do not see how consensual fun tickling can be construed as a sin, as long as it does not become the prime importance in a person's life. If no sexual pleasure is dirived from the expirince, how is watching a tickling clip (especally the clothed nonsexual ones, and a shoutout to all the producers who make those, Keep up the good work!) different from watching a pro sport? The particapants are being payed for their efforts, it is concentual and the view is having fun (not sexual pleasure) from watching it.

Now, some could say that by visiting a site that also endorses the sexual side of tickling, I support the sexual aspect by default. That if I were a devout Christian I would condem this site and everyone here. Well for starters, I don't condem, thats not a true Christian practice. And I supose my presence supports the sexual aspect of tickling, though I honestly don't feel it is.

Shadow, since by your definition you are not a true Christian, perhaps you are not clear on what defines Christianity, especally considering it is spread out over hundreds of denominations. This isn't an attack or beating, just a observation that since we seem to come from different directions we have different paradigms.

To sum up, tickling is not sexual to all, it is merely a hobby to some. And if it is just a hobby, baring all hobies being sinful, it is not inherently wrong.

Shadow, I know you said you would not respond, but if you have a constructive response or arguement, I would encourage you to. I don't want to turn this into personal fighting, but continue intellegent disscussion.

Hi Jim. Thanks for the great response, and the invite to continue. I'm pretty well versed in Christianity, and I know that there are literally 7000 different varieties of Christianity worldwide. My personal view is two-fold. Firstly, I don't believe now, nor have I ever believed that watching tickling clips is equivalent to watching a sporting event. I also don't believe that adults tickling each other can be considered a hobby. But that's not really the point either.

The point is, how would the Christian church feel about it? Now, there is something I think we BOTH know the answer to. They would find it amoral and at very least, completely distracting to the teachings of Christ. They would condemn it under the same conditions I outlined earlier, and they would also find your explanation to be a less than acceptable justification for exposing yourself to such things that you know are clearly considered unchristian-like.

Think about it. What if you told members of your church that you often went to strip clubs, but only to admire the dancing, and that you closed your eyes as soon as the strippers' got naked? Isn't that the same as saying you frequent websites that showcase tickle torture with sexually explicit themes, bondage and foot fetishism, but that you only go there to admire the tickling from a "fun" perspective? Would they believe you? Would the church say that your reasoning was within the letter and spirit of Christianity? Of course they wouldn't.

So, I submit to you that it may not be me who doesn't understand the definition of Christianity, but rather it may be a question of how Christian leaders define Christianity. After all, if you're going to claim "devoutness" then it is your responsibility to adhere to the outlines of your religion as THEY apply religious logic – not me.

I happen to agree completely with your argument and as far as I'm concerned, your point makes complete sense to me. I'm just saying that it wouldn't make the same sense to your congregation. And if I’m right about that, then what does that say about their attitudes toward your reasoning?

Therefore, when I use the word "devout" or "true," I'm making what I believe is a clear distinction between those Christians who abide by the circumscribable aspects of Christianity (the letter and spirit), and those who subscribe to the mainstream view of it. I believe that you are a mainstream Christian and I believe that your sensibilities are on par with the perspective of most mainstream Christians. Does that mean you're not a good guy, and a charitable, compassionate human being. Of course not. But if you want to be devout, then you can’t place yourself in positions of questionable appearance.

As a final note, I just want to stress again that I'm not condemning your position, nor am I questioning your allegience to your religion. This is merely a discussion about religious hypothesis and interpretation. Thanks for taking it in stride.

[isabeau]

Shadow what do you think? you know me pretty well. i think i am a good person overall and i dont believe i will go to hell for having some fantasies. even if they might come true one day i still dont think i will. but who knows? and yes i do believe in hell but i have a very good friend who told me that he believes hell is for the really bad people , those that kill, child offenders and sex molesters and the like. and i dont mean killing as in self defense or war. o eeks i'm just digging myself in further. sighs. i really have no idea.

as for my palms , they are hair free for now.

isabeau

[JohnnyB]

Shadow what do you think? you know me pretty well. i think i am a good person overall and i dont believe i will go to hell for having some fantasies. even if they might come true one day i still dont think i will. but who knows? and yes i do believe in hell but i have a very good friend who told me that he believes hell is for the really bad people , those that kill, child offenders and sex molesters and the like. and i dont mean killing as in self defense or war. o eeks i'm just digging myself in further. sighs. i really have no idea.

as for my palms , they are hair free for now.

isabeau

But as I was saying earlier, according to the Bible, if you have sexual fantasies, you are sinning, ie going to Hell! You have a freind who believes Hell is for really bad people? No offence, but make your own mind up. And bear in mind, accoring to the Bible, Lot's children had sex with him so that they would privide him with a male heir! And the lord sayeth that it be good! So God bless incest, it's blessed by the Bible!!!!!

[ShadowTklr]

Shadow what do you think? you know me pretty well. i think i am a good person overall and i dont believe i will go to hell for having some fantasies. even if they might come true one day i still dont think i will. but who knows? and yes i do believe in hell but i have a very good friend who told me that he believes hell is for the really bad people , those that kill, child offenders and sex molesters and the like. and i dont mean killing as in self defense or war. o eeks i'm just digging myself in further. sighs. i really have no idea.

as for my palms , they are hair free for now.

isabeau

Isabeau, here's my advice. I think you're a wonderful person who has had to endure some very difficult trials in your life, and as a result, is deserving of happiness and some selfish pleasures. With regard to your religion and what it means to you, I would offer this for your consideration:

God has made you who you are. Every fiber, function, thought, and desire are byproducts of God's creation - you. You cannot act without God in your life, and you cannot turn your back on God.

Don't fixate on hell. Harmless pleasures in moderation do not constitute the totality of ones life. They are simply components that help to build the character and definition of who we are.

I think of life and God as a diet. I eat well regularly, and I indulge in treats on ocassion. The scope of my diet is good, and so my health is balanced. Live your life well regularly, and indulge in selfish pleasures on ocassion. The scope of your life will be good, and so your life will be balanced with God.

I hope that helped. :angel:

[isabeau]

thank you Shadowtklr your post helped immensely. however johnnyb on the other hand you didnt help at all. or were you kidding??? i have had several trials in my life and never once have i lived for myself. and yes i can think for myself. i was just asking his advice. he should know he has been thru hell and back again, having served in iraq, killed many people over there, and wouunded in a road bomb. i think i may safely trust his judgement. thank you very much.

isabeau

ps and he suffers nightmares as a result.

[Red Jester]

You're right. You weren't arguing about religion. You were just calling the posters in this thread retarded. Sorry. My mistake. So, I guess you're only retarded by association then. Consider me corrected.

Yes, I literally meant anyone who argues about religion suffers from a mental handicap. And by posting in a thread with them I have developed that same mental handicap through association somehow. Your impenatrable logic has cracked the code. Way to go.

[kcantankerous]

You do know that the United States was founded on the basis of religious freedom from england. Money is the name of the game, religion is often thrown in. Religious people as a whole arn't bad. We have this damn conversation over and over, but I suppose there's no reason for me to talk about this any more. Seems as though some issues need to be addressed within alot of people within this forum. At least the ones that continue to beat this subject to death. Just like interpretation of the constitution, there are different interpretations christianity aswell as other religions. Tickling itself isn't bad, but wanting free reign to tie someone up to a freakin park bench would be discouraged from atheists aswell as any other religion. Some of your perverse dreams at the level of tickling or bondage or whatever arn't accepted by the majority because it is extreme. So get over it, or at least keep in mind that some of your shit isn't as accepted because its not usual. No ones ever going to give a shit or hold a celebration this stinkin fetish, for some its just perverted nonsense anyways. There are plenty of things to worry about besides weather or not this stuff is accepted. I think some of you have some serious issues and should look at solving those before you go out and change the damn world. And for the last time I interpret christianity differently than others. Just because Bush is a damn christian doesnt mean we see things the same. I know some of you have had it crammed down your throats and feel a need to lash out. But keep in mind one thing alot of morals and the laws that were created came from some concept of religion. Hmm I suppose I need to come down abit. However, let it be known that some of you are taking this fetish way too seriously.

[kcantankerous]

Oh, one more thing, every last stinkin one of us is a mf sinner. JonnyB and everyone like you, I always knew some people on this planet are dense but now I'm certain of it. Please let me know where your infinite logic comes from. Jester, how about you handle your handicap before worrying about others. Or better yet see what to do about the empty void between your ears. I am mad, and I will rip every last one of you with zeal I might add. Seems like some of you freaks are miserable and feel like you should drag as many people into your sarrow as possible. I'm sure some of you are single, sex starved, and possibly cash strapped. Reactive instead of proactive, possibly frail and weak or morbidly obese. I'm sure some might crack back about my spelling, punctuation or whatever. Some my be offended, and some might have insighted the response that I'm giving them. I don't really care, I just want to finally let loose on some of the parisitic leaches that infect this country. Your half logic and phedo science and whatever else is nothing but noise. For the last time, you can believe in evolution, have a fetish, smoke, serve your country, be rich, poor, lucky or unlucky, and still be a christian. Thank you very much, and for the rest kiss my christain butt.

[Robace252]

WOW knogz, and I thought I could breakdown someone in every sense of the word. I applaud your efforts but somewhere, somehow, I feel a nasty, nasty thread war might develop. Lets just put this issue to rest and realize the great thing about human beings is that we can choose to believe something with our eyes and minds, or to believe something with our hearts, and neither is wrong to do. NUFF SAID.

[Robace252]

Oh and one last thing...JohnnyB..incest might be in the bible, but its also in evolution. How else did the creatures multiply. You had to have at one point only one or two of something and they had to mate to create another being. Thus is true in the animal world. So dont try to think for one minute that evolution is perfect and is without flaws either.
Also, tickling isnt mentioned in the bible...as a sin or not.

[JohnnyB]

Oh and one last thing...JohnnyB..incest might be in the bible, but its also in evolution. How else did the creatures multiply. You had to have at one point only one or two of something and they had to mate to create another being. Thus is true in the animal world. So dont try to think for one minute that evolution is perfect and is without flaws either.
Also, tickling isnt mentioned in the bible...as a sin or not.

Almost all people on this forum look at tickling as a sexual fetish, which is a sin. Like it or not, it's what the Bible teaches.

And isabeau{E}, I don't mean to offend, but these are the things I believe with all the conviction that the rest of you believe in a god. I was a soldier too and with the things I've seen and done, I know that if you all are right I'm going to Hell for them. I don't want to demean what people do.

And as for Knogz? If insulting people pointlessly gets you off then fair enough, I could go on a rant and pretend I know what type of person you are and type insults at you, but the rest of us will have grown up conversations instead.


PS
I have dedicated 13 years of my life as a firefighter/paramedic saving lives while risking mine.

Fair play to you CabanaBoy, it's a hell of a tough job but well worth it.

[Celtic_Emperor]

To sum up, tickling is not sexual to all, it is merely a hobby to some. And if it is just a hobby, baring all hobies being sinful, it is not inherently wrong.


I don't venture into this forum often, and only then I just read as I have been since page 1. And I have to say I like the way you've represented the minority of people here that are not here for sexual reasons.

I am an artist. I have been a member of this site..for what....3 years I think..I came here out of a liking for tickling, not out of a fetish, need or undefinable obsession. I am as you discribed, one of those people who sees tickling as a fun thing, like a hobby. I myself do not engage in it in the real world nor attempt to conduct myself in a way that would lead to such activity (though I easily could).

Point is, even if I did, it would be harmless, as it does not contradict the tenets of my faith (Roman Catholism by the way). I am 23 years old (last month) and even at my young age I have figured out how NON-COMPLEX God and following Him faithfully is.

As many have said, but perhaps with not enough emphasis at times, God, and Jesus, are more concerned with your relationship with God and your connection, your faith, and your belief. If materialism, or this fetish, which it is not for me, were to take the place of importance in my life that God has then obviously theres trouble stiring in my soul and theres a horrible imbalance. If I was truely at fault I would feel guilty and a deep remorse. I do not, not because I'm not a "true follower" but because what I am viewing by coming here is not an affront to God in the first place.

There is no denying that there are sexual aspects to tickling, which the majority share in for a number of reasons.

But allow me to be one of the...dare I say.. rare people that is a practicing christian who goes to weekly mass and spends time at the chapel talking to God privately in His presense in the Tabernackle (sp?)

I do this and yet I come here. Its entertaining, but its not pornography. What constitutes pornography is different person to person, as you know. Its for this reason that pedophiles and the like exist.

As I said when I started, I'm an artist. I'm not a "fetish artist" or a "tickling artist" like people like to label people that come here and join, even if they mean it in a good way. I'm simply an artist. I come here for the general discussions actually, and nothing else save to share my work.

I mention being an artist because I have taken requests and commissions for tickling/fetish are for a long time now. Am I therefore a pornographer, whose sinning against God by leading people astray and inticing their imaginations through this type of artwork and imagery which I cater to?

This was something I struggled with for a long time and I almost left over it. But I realized that I cannot control what people will see as their pornopgraphy. The reality is, whether anyone likes the term "pornography" pr not, is that anything thats on this site, that was created or produced with the intention to arouse, sexually frustrate, etc, is pornography.

I don't draw pornography. Most people know by now that there are things I am willing to draw and things I will not. My art differs from alot of the different artists for this reason, as its more clean, pure, and more in keeping with the gentler, cute, and well played sexiness I put into my work.

I'm probably rambling at this point, but what I'm saying is that I am an example of one that is not compromised as a christian by being here because I've developed a value that overides any undesirable, over-sexually stimulated material I would come into contact here.

And by simply avoiding the more extreme cases of this site, I save myself from a moral dillema.

Even those that treat what this site caters to as a personal pornography are not excempt from God's graces and blessings, nor has He turned them away. Its just that people like me, and perhaps you, have a deeper connection to Him. But that doesn't make us any more special as human beings, as in the end we'll be judged according to our merits, not some tickling website.

I am not going to hell for drawing tickling artwork. I am not going to hell for entertaining people and myself. Why? Because God's love for me is greater than any fathomable sin I could ever commit.

This is a truth believers (devout or not) need to understand, and the sooner the better. So many people torture themselves needlessly over this very subject, creating, in their mind, a sin that is so great that God Himself cannot forgive it. They don't know how wrong they are.

Being on this site, christian or otherwise, is small peanuts in the greater picture of the destiny of your soul. Evil can only seep in and corrupt you if you allow it to or you're susceptible to it. And as far as I can tell, everyone here is an outstanding person in their own way and does not let this fetish control them (the actual sin). It is but a facet of themselves, and thats ok, in moderation. Its not as if this place is Sadam and Gahmora. LOL!

Come on, we're talking about people getting some cheap thrill off of some random broad's feet or whatever! Its hardly something to start condeming folks over! If God is not going to do it, why the hell should any of us?! ROFL! :D

[hivoltage]

Robace, evolution is incredibly gradual. It does not require incest in any way, shape, or form.

However 20% of all marriages today are between first cousins, so it looks like incest probably has a pretty long history. How we got genetic diversity from Adam and Eve seems impossible, though.

[kcantankerous]

Jonny just know your on my shit list, make some educated opinions I know exactly the crap you tried to pull at the beginning of this thread. I know this tickling is the center of your universe and that you feel threatened about the fact that just maybe your perverse desires might be sinful. You blattenly tried to take a shot as people of faith and now you try to seem like the innocent guy. But to be fair I suppose anymore shots I will take will come your way in the form of pms.

[jim66e]

Robace, evolution is incredibly gradual. It does not require incest in any way, shape, or form.

However 20% of all marriages today are between first cousins, so it looks like incest probably has a pretty long history. How we got genetic diversity from Adam and Eve seems impossible, though.


Wow, that seems like a high precentage, where is that information from?

[JohnnyB]

Jonny just know your on my shit list, make some educated opinions I know exactly the crap you tried to pull at the beginning of this thread. I know this tickling is the center of your universe and that you feel threatened about the fact that just maybe your perverse desires might be sinful. You blattenly tried to take a shot as people of faith and now you try to seem like the innocent guy. But to be fair I suppose anymore shots I will take will come your way in the form of pms.


{sigh}I have nothing against anyone who believes in God. I do however have a lot against people like you, who look down on everyone who questions what you say is true. And as for being on your sh*tlist?...er...what about this "turn the other cheek" stuff that you're meant to do?

What I'm trying to say is: you follow all of a religions beliefs, whether you agree with them or not. You can't pick and choose parts of a religion and claim to be faithful. You can believe in a god and not follow a religion, though. In the end, it's whatever helps you to feel better and take you through life.

[kcantankerous]

Some of you are mad at either my, or some congregations, or televangalists, or whoevers interpretation of how to carry out religious beliefs. Some think it should be iron clad, kinda like people who follow the constitution verbatum. Others like myself interpret what each point means. I don't look down on anyone, wait I suppose I do. But it isn't because of anyone elses religious believes. I look down on people who refuse to help themselves, those are the only people I'd say I refuse to understand. Jonny the reason I don't like you is because I felt you were using your interpretation of what christianity or religion was and implying that we all act the same. Being christian is a belief, it doesnt mean that we are free from sin. It means we're forgiven for it. We were made imperfect and are prone to sin. So we ask forgiveness, and we pray and work together in groups to become better christians so to speak. Does that mean we try be ridged and hate all non believers or whatever. Nope, I have been to some churches were its implied that we should avoid gays. Does that mean christians as a whole feel the same way? Not at all, other churches suggest we should leave everything to god, and sit back and watch him take care of it. Most christians ask for strength from him so that they can help themselves. Basically the point of this reply is to say, that not me not, you, or even the dang pope, knows with complete clarity goods will, furthermore, every last one of us top to bottom is a sinner. I do apologise for the christians who seem to believe that they are perfect. But I will defend my personal beliefs agains anyone who makes a blanket statement.

[JohnnyB]

What I was trying to say was that is that religions have fixed values. If you don't hold all of these views, without exception, then you are not truly faithful to that religion. That's the way religions are. That's not to say you can't still be the best Christian/Muslim/Jew or even Scientologist that you can be. And with regards to the thread title, as I said earlier, within christianity, sexual gratification is a sin, and since the majority of people come to this site with a sexual interest in tickling, then that is a sin.

I honestly don't know what your problem is. You claim to "know exactly the crap I tried to pull at the beginning of this thread"? I expressed an opinion! Just like you, but I don't feel the need to flame people just because their opinions differ. You've gotta learn to relax and think about both sides of these religious arguments. It is ok to believe in different things.

[hivoltage]

Jim:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/science/2002-04-04-cousins.htm

I have seen the figure in several places, even though I do question its validity. Apparently first cousin marriage is accepted almost everywhere but most of the U. S. (where it is legal in about 20 states).

I personally don't think it's a good idea, you get way too much inbreeding over time.

[BigJim]

While there is no doubt that people like George W. Bush and Tony Blair posture as Christians to attract votes whilst demonstrating behaviour one would expect more from a Satanist, there are equally many people who express a loving spirituality through their Christian beliefs. While I believe Christian doctrine is incorrect, that doesn't blind me to the wonderful way these people act through their beliefs.

[Drago69]

I didn't read the whole thread. Don't feel like it right now.

In my opinion, the idea of God, and the Devil, were created in order to make people stop doing bad things for fear of eternal torture in their afterlife.

Good and evil may exist, but they do not exist because of any deity; they exist in the minds of all humans, and, for the most part, are carried out by humans. Hurricane's such as Katrina are not evil - it's a natural occurence that just happened to kill people.

Good and evil is relative. What is good in the mind of one person, could be evil in the mind of another. But it's just humans being humans. We're horrible beings, though most do not wish to acknowledge that.

These are my thoughts on the subject, so I suppose I'm joining the non-believers.

[BigJim]

Jim:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/science/2002-04-04-cousins.htm

I have seen the figure in several places, even though I do question its validity. Apparently first cousin marriage is accepted almost everywhere but most of the U. S. (where it is legal in about 20 states).

I personally don't think it's a good idea, you get way too much inbreeding over time.

Indeed; as evidence you only have to look to European royalty and the "establishment families" of the US north-east, who are royalty in all but name. There isn't a more unbalanced and dangerous tribe on the planet.

[Ticklish9's]

*disclaimer* I am not an expert. The following is my opinion and as likely as any of my other posts to be full of crap. :P

When attempting to pose a scientific analysis of religious belief and behaviour, you're going to come up baffled time and again. It's simply a case of apples and oranges.

Where science (Western science, at any rate) uses reductionism to isolate causes and effects and then rebuild the whole picture out of the individual data, religion (and philosophy in general) approach problem solving from the opposite direction. This is primarily because they address two entirely different sets of problems to solve.



Consider this - applying a scientists experimentalist mindset to the notion of God hinges on certain underlying assumptions. These include (but are not limited to) : the assumption that cause precedes effect temporally; that the objects under observation follow complex but predictable interacting "rules" of nature; that the primary logical foundation of "If-Then" holds true in all cases at the most basic level, with varying degrees of interaction; and so on. The laws of nature are part and parcel of the underlying formula of the universe; and the rules of logic are directly derived from those laws of nature.

This is an important point to make. Once we've established that logical reasoning is a derivation of the laws of nature prescribed by the universe's fundamental nature, we now must take care to apply our logical analysis only where appropriate - that is, within the confines of the universe we dwell in.


Attempting to apply our rational approach to a conceptual entity such as a Divine Creator will in principle fail. Our sense of before and after, of if-then, of time and space, all come from the universe. A Creator "precedes" the universe (though only inasmuch as such a Creator exists when time begins) and attempts to describe or contain the concept within a logical premise is nothing but antropomorphism.