The FEMA DUPE? - Could This Be A Government Coverup?

[ShadowTklr]

It appears there may be more here than meets the eye regarding the hesitancy with which FEMA responded in the wake of Katrina. After a short, but in-depth research on this subject, I’ve given serious reconsideration to the idea that FEMA is a band of imbeciles who couldn’t respond adequately to the Katrina disaster. Much thanks to Robace who first raised the question of competency disparities between 2004 and Katrina. That got me thinking about Mike Brown and how he may have been the fall guy for a political cover-up that would seek to dupe Americans into thinking this lousy response was a question of human error by a single, unqualified person.

In the wake of hurricanes Charlie, Frances, Ivan and Jeanne (the 4 hurricanes to hit Florida in 2004 in that order), George Bush was still campaigning for reelection and probably wanted to insure that Florida would go his way. The hurricanes represented a way for Bush to turn his poll numbers around and lock up the state by exploiting their misfortune for his political gain. Floridians certainly wouldn’t complaint too much because they were the beneficiaries of a tremendous support structure.

The post hurricane response by the government in Florida in 2004 was so quick, agencies actually tripped over their own feet in a mad rush to give federal relief funds away. At least $13.1 Million was given to people who DID NOT qualify for federal relief funding. And, of that money compensated to unqualified residents, much of it was issued to replace personal items at 2 and 3 times their market value for replacement.

Here is a little rundown on how well the Government responded to the hurricanes in 2004 (much of this information was acquired through Newspaper articles from papers such as the St. Petersberg Times, the Miami Herald, the Fort-Lauderdale Sun Sentinel, NY Post, NY times, Washington Post, Chicago Tribune, plus Reuters website, Wikpedia online Encyclopedia, White House press releases, and FEMA’s own website.

Hurricane Charley (Landfall Friday, August 13, 2004 – Dissipated Sunday, August 15th)
Stats: 10 People dead; 1 Million without power intitially; 1 week after landfall, reduced to 240,000 without power; 47,500 evacuees; 3,100 special needs evacuees.

Government Response: Gov. Jeb Bush requests federal help on Friday while Charley is still in the Gulf of Mexico. President Bush approves the aid about an hour after the hurricane makes landfall.
By Monday afternoon, just 36 hours after Charley had moved past Florida up the eastern coast, Cargo planes were delivering FEMA supplies from a Georgia Air Force base to a staging area in Lakeland, and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers had shipped 11 truckloads of water and 14 truckloads of ice.
Federal assistance money was shipped Monday night.
Guy Daines, the former Pinellas County director of emergency services, said he was impressed by the quick deployment of the National Guard and pre-positioning of supplies for Hurricane Charley.
"It amazed me how they got over 4,000 National Guard troops in there that quick,"
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Hurricane Frances (Landfall Saturday, Sept. 4 2004)
Stats: 5 people dead as a direct result of the storm / 34 dead indirectly; 8.8 Billion Dollars in damage;

Government Response: Gov. Jeb Bush requests Federal aid before Frances hits. Bush approves aid immediately.

As of Monday, the following actions had already been taken in response to Frances:

About one hundred trucks of water and 280 trucks of ice are present or will arrive in the Jacksonville staging area today.
900,000 Meals-Ready-to-Eat are on site in Jacksonville, ready to be distributed.
Over 7,000 cases of food (e.g., vegetables, fruits, cheese, ham, and turkey) are scheduled to arrive in Winter Haven today.
Disaster medical assistance teams (DMAT) are on the ground and setting up comfort stations. FEMA community relations personnel will coordinate with DMATs to assist victims.
Urban search and rescue teams are completing reconnaissance missions in coordination with state officials.
FEMA is coordinating with the Department of Energy and the state to ensure that necessary fuel supplies can be distributed throughout the state, with a special focus on hospitals and other emergency facilities that are running on generators.
The Army Corps of Engineers will soon begin its efforts to provide tarps to tens of thousands of owners of homes and buildings that have seen damage to their roofs . . .
The Departments of Health and Human Services, Veterans Affairs, and Defense together have organized 300 medical personnel to be on standby. Medical personnel will begin deployment to Florida tomorrow .
President Bush declares all 67 counties in Florida to be eligible for public assistance.

Of the 67 counties, FEMA declares 18 counties eligible for assistance without even making ANY damage assessments. As a result, $13 Million dollars was paid to just over 12,000 Miami-Dade residents who suffered no more than a “summer shower” as described by one such resident. This is due in large part because the hurricane actually hit 100 miles off the coast of Miami-Dade country, resulting in thunderstorms, but no costly damage. Residents used the money to purchase TVs, brand new cars, and appliances.
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Hurricane Ivan (Landfall Monday, Sept. 20th – Florida Peninsula)
Stats: 25 People Dead (Including 14 in Florida); 13 Billion Dollars in Damage

Government Response:
In addition to the supplies provided for the two earlier hurricanes, the Army Corps of Engineers is standing by with 100 refrigerator trucks of ice and 500 trucks of water to meet immediate needs as part of the Hurricane Ivan response.
FEMA is using every available means to move supplies to where they are most needed, including pre-positioning supplies and using alternative means of transportation such as ships, air transport, and railroad.
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Hurricane Jeanne (Landfall Sunday, September 26, 2004)
Stats: 5 people dead in 3 States as a direct result of hurricanes; 2.6 million people without power; $9.6 Billion dollars in damage combined between Florida, South Carolina, and Virginia.

Government Response:
Hurricane Jeanne comes in on the heels of Ivan, and just 3 weeks after Frances. All aforementioned emergency response teams and supplies are available for distribution.

I’ll be doing a follow up regarding the response efforts of Katrina and posting it here.

[ShadowTklr]

This post includes the reprint of the timeline of Katrina as reported by Think Progress Website. I have checked every fact listed in this post to confirm that quotes, dates and events have not been exaggerated or taken clearly out of context. This is a LOOOOOOOOOOOOONG post. Enjoy.

The Avoidable Disaster Of Katrina


Friday, August 26
GOV. KATHLEEN BLANCO DECLARES STATE OF EMERGENCY IN LOUISIANA
This might be a good time for the neo-cons who claim she never did that to look at the Office of the Governor’s own press release HERE. (http://www.gov.state.la.us/Press_Release_detail.asp?id=973)
GULF COAST STATES REQUEST TROOP ASSISTANCE FROM PENTAGON: At a 9/1 press conference, Lt. Gen. Russel Honoré, commander, Joint Task Force Katrina, said that the Gulf States began the process of requesting additional forces on Friday, 8/26.

Saturday, August 27
GOV. HALEY BARBOUR DECLARES STATE OF EMERGENCY IN MISSISSIPPI
5AM CDT — KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 3 HURRICANE [CNN]
GOV. BLANCO ASKS BUSH TO DECLARE FEDERAL STATE OF EMERGENCY IN LOUISIANA: “I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster.”
But of course, it was the local government’s fault because they should have been able to help themselves in a hurricane that wreaked more havoc, and loss of life than all 4 hurricanes in Florida in 2004 combined.
FEDERAL EMERGENCY DECLARED, DHS AND FEMA GIVEN FULL AUTHORITY TO RESPOND TO KATRINA: “Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency.” - White House

Sunday, August 28
2AM CDT – KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 4 HURRICANE
7AM CDT – KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 5 HURRICANE
MORNING — LOUISIANA NEWSPAPER SIGNALS LEVEES MAY GIVE: “Forecasters Fear Levees Won’t Hold Katrina”: “Forecasters feared Sunday afternoon that storm driven waters will lap over the New Orleans levees when monster Hurricane Katrina pushes past the Crescent City tomorrow.” –Lafayette Daily Advertiser
9:30 AM CDT — MAYOR NAGIN ISSUES FIRST EVER MANDATORY EVACUATION OF NEW ORLEANS: “We’re facing the storm most of us have feared,” said Nagin. “This is going to be an unprecedented event.”
4PM CDT – NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE ISSUES SPECIAL HURRICANE WARNING: In the event of a category 4 or 5 hit, “Most of the area will be uninhabitable for weeks, perhaps longer. … At least one-half of well-constructed homes will have roof and wall failure. All gabled roofs will fail, leaving those homes severely damaged or destroyed. … Power outages will last for weeks. … Water shortages will make human suffering incredible by modern standards.” -National Weather Service
AFTERNOON — BUSH, BROWN, CHERTOFF WARNED OF LEVEE FAILURE BY NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER DIRECTOR: Dr. Max Mayfield, director of the National Hurricane Center: “‘We were briefing them way before landfall. … It’s not like this was a surprise. We had in the advisories that the levee could be topped.’” -Times-Picayune; St. Petersburg Times
LATE PM – REPORTS OF WATER TOPPLING OVER LEVEE: “Waves crashed atop the exercise path on the Lake Pontchartrain levee in Kenner early Monday as Katrina churned closer.” -Times-Picayune
APPROXIMATELY 30,000 EVACUEES GATHER AT SUPERDOME WITH ROUGHLY 36 HOURS WORTH OF FOOD -Times-Picayune

Monday, August 29
7AM CDT – KATRINA MAKES LANDFALL AS A CATEGORY 4 HURRICANE
8AM CDT – MAYOR NAGIN REPORTS THAT WATER IS FLOWING OVER LEVEE: “I’ve gotten reports this morning that there is already water coming over some of the levee systems. In the lower ninth ward, we’ve had one of our pumping stations to stop operating, so we will have significant flooding, it is just a matter of how much.” -NBC’s “Today Show”
MORNING — BUSH CALLS SECRETARY CHERTOFF TO DISCUSS IMMIGRATION: “I spoke to Mike Chertoff today — he’s the head of the Department of Homeland Security. I knew people would want me to discuss this issue , so we got us an airplane on — a telephone on Air Force One, so I called him. I said, are you working with the governor? He said, you bet we are.” - [I]George Bush
MORNING – BUSH SHARES BIRTHDAY CAKE PHOTO-OP WITH SEN. JOHN MCCAIN
10:30AM CDT — MICHAEL BROWN FINALLY REQUESTS THAT DHS DISPATCH 1,000 EMPLOYEES TO REGION, GIVES THEM TWO DAYS TO ARRIVE: “Brown’s memo to Chertoff described Katrina as ‘this near catastrophic event’ but otherwise lacked any urgent language. The memo politely ended, ‘Thank you for your consideration in helping us to meet our responsibilities.’” -Associated Press
LATE MORNING – LEVEE BREACHED: “A large section of the vital 17th Street Canal levee, where it connects to the brand new ‘hurricane proof’ Old Hammond Highway bridge, gave way late Monday morning in Bucktown after Katrina’s fiercest winds were well north.” -Times-Picayune
11AM CDT — BUSH VISITS ARIZONA RESORT TO PROMOTE MEDICARE DRUG BENEFIT:
4PM CDT — BUSH TRAVELS TO CALIFORNIA SENIOR CENTER TO DISCUSS MEDICARE DRUG BENEFIT: “We’ve got some folks up here who are concerned about their Social Security or Medicare. Joan Geist is with us. … I could tell — she was looking at me when I first walked in the room to meet her, she was wondering whether or not old George W. is going to take away her Social Security check.” -George Bush
8PM CDT — RUMSFELD ATTENDS SAN DIEGO PADRES BASEBALL GAME: Rumsfeld “joined Padres President John Moores in the owner’s box…at Petco Park.”
Tuesday, August 30
11AM CDT – BUSH SPEAKS ON IRAQ AT NAVAL BASE CORONADO
MIDDAY – CHERTOFF FINALLY BECOMES AWARE THAT LEVEE HAS FAILED: “It was on Tuesday that the levee–may have been overnight Monday to Tuesday–that the levee started to break. And it was midday Tuesday that I became aware of the fact that there was no possibility of plugging the gap and that essentially the lake was going to start to drain into the city.”
PENTAGON CLAIMS THERE ARE ENOUGH NATIONAL GUARD TROOPS IN REGION: “Pentagon spokesman Lawrence Di Rita said the states have adequate National Guard units to handle the hurricane needs.” [/list]
MASS LOOTING REPORTED, SECURITY SHORTAGE CITED: “The looting is out of control. The French Quarter has been attacked,” Councilwoman Jackie Clarkson said. “We’re using exhausted, scarce police to control looting when they should be used for search and rescue while we still have people on rooftops.” -Associated Press
U.S.S. BATAAN SITS OFF SHORE, VIRTUALLY UNUSED: “The USS Bataan, a 844-foot ship designed to dispatch Marines in amphibious assaults, has helicopters, doctors, hospital beds, food and water. It also can make its own water, up to 100,000 gallons a day. And it just happened to be in the Gulf of Mexico when Katrina came roaring ashore. The Bataan rode out the storm and then followed it toward shore, awaiting relief orders. Helicopter pilots flying from its deck were some of the first to begin plucking stranded New Orleans residents. But now the Bataan’s hospital facilities, including six operating rooms and beds for 600 patients, are empty.” -Chicago Tribune
2PM CDT – PRESIDENT BUSH PLAYS GUITAR WITH COUNTRY SINGER MARK WILLIS
BUSH RETURNS TO CRAWFORD FOR FINAL NIGHT OF VACATION
TENS OF THOUSANDS TRAPPED IN SUPERDOME; CONDITIONS DETERIORATE: “A 2-year-old girl slept in a pool of urine. Crack vials littered a restroom. Blood stained the walls next to vending machines smashed by teenagers. ‘We pee on the floor. We are like animals,’ said Taffany Smith, 25, as she cradled her 3-week-old son, Terry. … By Wednesday, it had degenerated into horror. … At least two people, including a child, have been raped. At least three people have died, including one man who jumped 50 feet to his death, saying he had nothing left to live for. There is no sanitation. The stench is overwhelming.”" -Los Angeles Times
PRESIDENT BUSH FINALLY ORGANIZES TASK FORCE TO COORDINATE FEDERAL RESPONSE: Bush says on Tuesday he will “fly to Washington to begin work…with a task force that will coordinate the work of 14 federal agencies involved in the relief effort.”
JEFFERSON PARISH EMERGENCY DIRECTOR SAYS FOOD AND WATER SUPPLY GONE: “Director Walter Maestri: FEMA and national agencies not delivering the help nearly as fast as it is needed.”
80,000 BELIEVED STRANDED IN NEW ORLEANS: Former Mayor Sidney Barthelemy “estimated 80,000 were trapped in the flooded city and urged President Bush to send more troops.” -Reuters
3,000 STRANDED AT CONVENTION CENTER WITHOUT FOOD OR WATER: “With 3,000 or more evacuees stranded at the convention center — and with no apparent contingency plan or authority to deal with them — collecting a body was no one’s priority. … Some had been at the convention center since Tuesday morning but had received no food, water or instructions.” –Times-Picayune
PUBLIC HEALTH EMERGENCY DECLARED FOR ENTIRE GULF COAST: “After a natural disaster, short and long-term medical problems can occur. Diseases like cholera, typhoid, hepatitis and mosquito-borne illnesses tend to break out under these conditions.” –WCBS-TV
4PM CDT — BUSH GIVES FIRST MAJOR ADDRESS ON KATRINA: “Nothing about the president’s demeanor… — which seemed casual to the point of carelessness — suggested that he understood the depth of the current crisis.” –New York Times
7PM CDT – CONDOLEEZZA RICE TAKES IN A BROADWAY SHOW: “On Wednesday night, Secretary Rice was booed by some audience members at ‘Spamalot!, the Monty Python musical at the Shubert, when the lights went up after the performance.” –New York Post
8PM CDT — FEMA DIRECTOR BROWN CLAIMS SURPRISE OVER SIZE OF STORM: “I must say, this storm is much much bigger than anyone expected.” –Mike Brown, FEMA Director

Thursday, September 1
7AM CDT — BUSH CLAIMS NO ONE EXPECTED LEVEES TO BREAK: “I don’t think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees.” –George Bush
CONDOLEEZZA RICE VISITS U.S. OPEN: “Rice, [in New York] on three days’ vacation to shop and see the U.S. Open, hitting some balls with retired champ Monica Seles at the Indoor Tennis Club at Grand Central.” –New York Post
STILL NO COMMAND AND CONTROL ESTABLISHED: Terry Ebbert, New Orleans Homeland Security Director: “This is a national emergency. This is a national disgrace. FEMA has been here three days, yet there is no command and control. We can send massive amounts of aid to tsunami victims, but we can’t bail out the city of New Orleans.”
2PM CDT — MAYOR NAGIN ISSUES “DESPERATE SOS” TO FEDERAL GOVERNMENT: “This is a desperate SOS. Right now we are out of resources at the convention centre and don’t anticipate enough buses. We need buses. Currently the convention centre is unsanitary and unsafe and we’re running out of supplies.”
2PM CDT — MICHAEL BROWN CLAIMS NOT TO HAVE HEARD OF REPORTS OF VIOLENCE: “I’ve had no reports of unrest, if the connotation of the word unrest means that people are beginning to riot, or you know, they’re banging on walls and screaming and hollering or burning tires or whatever. I’ve had no reports of that.” –Michael Brown, FEMA Director
NEW ORLEANS “DESCEND[S] INTO ANARCHY”: “Storm victims were raped and beaten, fights and fires broke out, corpses lay out in the open, and rescue helicopters and law enforcement officers were shot at as flooded-out New Orleans descended into anarchy Thursday. ‘This is a desperate SOS,’ the mayor said.” –Associated Press
CONDOLEEZZA RICE GOES SHOE SHOPPING: “Just moments ago at the Ferragamo on 5th Avenue, Condoleeza Rice was seen spending several thousands of dollars on some nice, new shoes (we’ve confirmed this, so her new heels will surely get coverage from the WaPo’s Robin Givhan). A fellow shopper, unable to fathom the absurdity of Rice’s timing, went up to the Secretary and reportedly shouted, ‘How dare you shop for shoes while thousands are dying and homeless!’” Gawker
MICHAEL BROWN FINALLY LEARNS OF EVACUEES IN CONVENTION CENTER: “We learned about that (Thursday), so I have directed that we have all available resources to get that convention center to make sure that they have the food and water and medical care that they need.”

Friday, September 2
ROVE-LED CAMPAIGN TO BLAME LOCAL OFFICIALS BEGINS: “Under the command of President Bush’s two senior political advisers, the White House rolled out a plan…to contain the political damage from the administration’s response to Hurricane Katrina.” President Bush’s comments from the Rose Garden Friday morning formed “the start of this campaign.” –New York Times
9:35AM CDT — BUSH PRAISES MICHAEL BROWN: “Brownie, you’re doing a heck of a job.” –George Bush
10 AM CDT — PRESIDENT BUSH STAGES PHOTO-OP “BRIEFING”: Coast Guard helicopters and crew diverted to act as backdrop for President Bush’s photo-op.
BUSH VISIT GROUNDS FOOD AID: “Three tons of food ready for delivery by air to refugees in St. Bernard Parish and on Algiers Point sat on the Crescent City Connection bridge Friday afternoon as air traffic was halted because of President Bush’s visit to New Orleans, officials said.” –Times-Picayune
LEVEE REPAIR WORK ORCHESTRATED FOR PRESIDENT’S VISIT: Sen. Mary Landrieu, 9/3: “Touring this critical site yesterday with the President, I saw what I believed to be a real and significant effort to get a handle on a major cause of this catastrophe. Flying over this critical spot again this morning, less than 24 hours later, it became apparent that yesterday we witnessed a hastily prepared stage set for a Presidential photo opportunity; and the desperately needed resources we saw were this morning reduced to a single, lonely piece of equipment.” –Sen. Mary Landrieu
BUSH USES 50 FIREFIGHTERS AS PROPS IN DISASTER AREA PHOTO-OP: A group of 1,000 firefighters convened in Atlanta to volunteer with the Katrina relief efforts. Of those, “a team of 50 Monday morning quickly was ushered onto a flight headed for Louisiana. The crew’s first assignment: to stand beside President Bush as he tours devastated areas.” –Salt Lake Tribune; Reuters
12PM CDT — BUSH “SATISFIED WITH THE RESPONSE”: “I am satisfied with the response. I am not satisfied with all the results.” –George Bush

Saturday, September 3
[list]SENIOR BUSH ADMINISTRATION OFFICIAL LIES TO WASHINGTON POST, CLAIMS GOV. BLANCO NEVER DECLARED STATE OF EMERGENCY: The Post reported in their Sunday edition “As of Saturday, Blanco still had not declared a state of emergency, the senior Bush official said.” They were forced to issue a correction hours later. –Washington Post
9AM CDT — BUSH BLAMES STATE AND LOCAL OFFICIALS: “[T]he magnitude of responding to a crisis over a disaster area that is larger than the size of Great Britain has created tremendous problems that have strained state and local capabilities. The result is that many of our citizens simply are not getting the help they need.” –White House

It is clear from this timeline that Katrina was almost ignored by Bush and his administration. The question isn't so much whether or not this happened, but WHY? That is a speculation that we can all have an opinion about. For those of you who insist that the blame lies squarely with the state and local government, then I assert that it is YOUR turn to come up with some proof that would give credibility to that claim.

[ShadowTklr]

Great research!

The responses here were great, yes. As you say, ironic now that the fed response in an area like New Orleans was non-existant for the first 4-5 days.

Thanks Cabana. Damn that was a lot of work. I finally got lucky after hours of research on the first post, and found a timeline that was exactly what I was looking for to describe Katrina.

But, as I said in my second post, I don't think anyone is disputing the ball being dropped, but I'm alleging that the ball was deliberately let go. I simply cannot reconcile the amount of ineptitude, and the succession in which it occurred to simply dismiss it as a fumble.

[MrMacphisto]

This is really disturbing.... I don't really know how to respond to this.

*shrugs* I guess the age-old problem of sectionalism still plagues America.

[ShadowTklr]

This is really disturbing.... I don't really know how to respond to this.

*shrugs* I guess the age-old problem of sectionalism still plagues America.

If I didn't research this thing myself, Mac, I wouldn't have believed the degree of disparity either. It is positively staggering how the government repeatedly ignored every sign of disaster, and then ignored the disaster itself until it was too late.

[Robace252]

I however will respond MacPhisto..where as very few respnd to me, I will take the challenge...and meet it. Here we go....long one too.
Saturday, August 27
GOV. HALEY BARBOUR DECLARES STATE OF EMERGENCY IN MISSISSIPPI
5AM CDT — KATRINA UPGRADED TO CATEGORY 3 HURRICANE [CNN]
GOV. BLANCO ASKS BUSH TO DECLARE FEDERAL STATE OF EMERGENCY IN LOUISIANA:
“I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster.”
But of course, it was the local government’s fault because they should have been able to help themselves in a hurricane that wreaked more havoc, and loss of life than all 4 hurricanes in Florida in 2004 combined.
FEDERAL EMERGENCY DECLARED, DHS AND FEMA GIVEN FULL AUTHORITY TO RESPOND TO KATRINA:
“Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency.” - White House

Okay, now read the last statement...it shows that FEMA was given the authority by the White House to do everything without restrictions.
It proves my whole point for me. FEMA not the white house was in charge.

*But of course, it was the local government’s fault because they should have been able to help themselves in a hurricane that wreaked more havoc, and loss of life than all 4 hurricanes in Florida in 2004 combined.*
This statement above is opinion not fact from a citizen website.

On the statements regarding the events on the 28th of August it is very obovious that the writer of this "Account" has either forgotten or omitted all the media reports that "New Orleans looks like it has lucked out again" and that everyone including the National Weather Service had Katrina moving more to the East and avoiding the "worst case scenario" by directly hitting New Orleans.

Monday, August 29
7AM CDT – KATRINA MAKES LANDFALL AS A CATEGORY 4 HURRICANE
8AM CDT – MAYOR NAGIN REPORTS THAT WATER IS FLOWING OVER LEVEE:
“I’ve gotten reports this morning that there is already water coming over some of the levee systems. In the lower ninth ward, we’ve had one of our pumping stations to stop operating, so we will have significant flooding, it is just a matter of how much.” -NBC’s “Today Show”

This I find laughable now because we all know now that the Pumping stations we left "unmanned" by the mayor's evacuations and that electricity was out throughout the city, so the pumps were not working.

Also where as Bush did make all the visits noted, the author of this "Account" neglects to mention that Bush talked about Katrina at every event.
True talking is not an acceptable reason for not being at the White House and taking care of the problem, note the statement from the 28th that FEMA had all authority.

TENS OF THOUSANDS TRAPPED IN SUPERDOME; CONDITIONS DETERIORATE:
“A 2-year-old girl slept in a pool of urine. Crack vials littered a restroom. Blood stained the walls next to vending machines smashed by teenagers. ‘We pee on the floor. We are like animals,’ said Taffany Smith, 25, as she cradled her 3-week-old son, Terry. … By Wednesday, it had degenerated into horror. … At least two people, including a child, have been raped. At least three people have died, including one man who jumped 50 feet to his death, saying he had nothing left to live for. There is no sanitation. The stench is overwhelming.”" -Los Angeles Times
While sad this is true. But remember who put everyone in the Superdome and annouced to the public "Bring your own food, we will not provide any at the Superdome." Gee sounds like he had a plan to have food brought in.
And it makes logical sense if he wasnt prepared to bring in food, he wasnt prepared to bring in anything else either.

PRESIDENT BUSH FINALLY ORGANIZES TASK FORCE TO COORDINATE FEDERAL RESPONSE:
Bush says on Tuesday he will “fly to Washington to begin work…with a task force that will coordinate the work of 14 federal agencies involved in the relief effort.”
Any statement with a ... in it means something was left out intentionally. I wonder what it was. Oh yeah there is no source on this one. I wonder why.

80,000 BELIEVED STRANDED IN NEW ORLEANS:
Former Mayor Sidney Barthelemy “estimated 80,000 were trapped in the flooded city and urged President Bush to send more troops.” -Reuters

Also most of the bullet points are not the actual titles of the articles they took the information from, meerly the authors points. But this is from a former Mayor, not in the loop. Estimating. Now why was she doing this urging on Tuesday the 30th and not Sunday the 28th or Monday. Gee they used their "fame" for good didnt they.

4PM CDT — BUSH GIVES FIRST MAJOR ADDRESS ON KATRINA:
“Nothing about the president’s demeanor… — which seemed casual to the point of carelessness — suggested that he understood the depth of the current crisis.” –New York Times

Again, this is an op-ed piece from the New York Times...not news. Get the facts please author, not opinions.
Also notice the word "MAJOR" it shows he had previously talked about it but of course those statements are not mentioned.

STILL NO COMMAND AND CONTROL ESTABLISHED:
Terry Ebbert, New Orleans Homeland Security Director: “This is a national emergency. This is a national disgrace. FEMA has been here three days, yet there is no command and control. We can send massive amounts of aid to tsunami victims, but we can’t bail out the city of New Orleans.”

Again this shows FEMA was supposed to be incharge...not the White House. Thanks again.

2PM CDT — MAYOR NAGIN ISSUES “DESPERATE SOS” TO FEDERAL GOVERNMENT:
“This is a desperate SOS. Right now we are out of resources at the convention centre and don’t anticipate enough buses. We need buses. Currently the convention centre is unsanitary and unsafe and we’re running out of supplies.”

Speaking of buses, do we remember the hundreds of buses that are still underwater...hmmm, if he had a good plan...oh wait they did..look at the city of New Orleans own Disaster Plan on the city website, he would have moved the buses instead of them being left to the waters, much like the plan states.

ROVE-LED CAMPAIGN TO BLAME LOCAL OFFICIALS BEGINS:
“Under the command of President Bush’s two senior political advisers, the White House rolled out a plan…to contain the political damage from the administration’s response to Hurricane Katrina.” President Bush’s comments from the Rose Garden Friday morning formed “the start of this campaign.” –New York Times

Again can we all say "OP-ED, OP-ED" Please tell the author not to use opinion editorials as fact. As well as the ....'s.

BUSH USES 50 FIREFIGHTERS AS PROPS IN DISASTER AREA PHOTO-OP:
A group of 1,000 firefighters convened in Atlanta to volunteer with the Katrina relief efforts. Of those, “a team of 50 Monday morning quickly was ushered onto a flight headed for Louisiana. The crew’s first assignment: to stand beside President Bush as he tours devastated areas.” –Salt Lake Tribune; Reuters[list]12PM CDT — BUSH “SATISFIED WITH THE RESPONSE”: “I am satisfied with the response. I am not satisfied with all the results.” –George Bush

I watched CNN's coverage of Bush's tours...I never saw 50 people let alone 50 firefighters. Please post the link to these articles...Id like to reaad them. Also please the date of these from Reuters and the SLT.

9AM CDT — BUSH BLAMES STATE AND LOCAL OFFICIALS:
“[T]he magnitude of responding to a crisis over a disaster area that is larger than the size of Great Britain has created tremendous problems that have strained state and local capabilities. The result is that many of our citizens simply are not getting the help they need.” –White House

Lastly, this in no way shows he is blaming anyone. Read the sentance....read it again, come on 1 more time! It says "strained", that in no way is blaming anything.

As for proof, I direct you to all the posts I have written with web-links, Govt. reports, and news agencies not their OP-ED pieces.
But I will say there is a few decent facts and the timeline seems to be straight, I just always question anything that has OP-ED being used as facts.

[MrMacphisto]

Rob, I understand the bias inherent in some of these articles, but even if we can let Bush off the hook on this one, this still indicates that FEMA failed miserably in its response. By contrast, the Red Cross did a much better job.

[kurchatovium]

Goverments programs are always terribly inefficient IMHO. Private organizations and businesses are much better. Walmart, for example, helped a great deal in this disaster (much to their credit). This is why I generally want less goverment not more.

[MrMacphisto]

Goverments programs are always terribly inefficient IMHO. Private organizations and businesses are much better. Walmart, for example, helped a great deal in this disaster (much to their credit). This is why I generally want less goverment not more.

I can see where you are coming from, but there was a time when there were basically no social programs in America. The poor were left to the mercy of charities. We can't let that happen again, so the only option is to make government programs more efficient and effective.

[kurchatovium]

I did not say to elimante all of them, but rather lets not add more bureacratic mess to the gigantic messs we have. I think the situation would have been better handled had the hurricane emergency been farmed out to private organizations and companies. Robace's posts indicate that the goverment has done nothing since 1965. Now you going to tell me we are going to get the goverment to ever be able to do this better? I am highly sceptical.

[MrMacphisto]

I did not say to elimante all of them, but rather lets not add more bureacratic mess to the gigantic messs we have. I think the situation would have been better handled had the hurricane emergency been farmed out to private organizations and companies. Robace's posts indicate that the goverment has done nothing since 1965. Now you going to tell me we are going to get the goverment to ever be able to do this better? I am highly sceptical.

Fair enough... Are you suggesting that a fund should be set aside to farm out to private companies that specialize in this kind of operation? Even without the bureaucracy, you'll still need money for this sort of thing.

[kurchatovium]

If the money is well spent and saves lives then I would be all for it. :D The bottom line IMHO is to use whatever money is spent to help the most people as quickly and efficiently as possible.

[Robace252]

Thank you kurch and MacPhisto...I appreciate the agreements and thus we 3 are agreed. Bush is not innocent by any means, he is guilty of letting this get out of control when he could have stepped in on Monday night and taken care of everything by ordering massive military response immediately. It is his fault for putting faith in to FEMA that he re-organized into Homeland Security which we can all see now was an utter failure. FEMA should be and should have stayed an independant department and had the cabinet position which would have had him in the EAR of Bushie and not having to go through Homeland Security first. But this problem is bigger than Bush, bigger than Republicans or Democrats..its the lobbyist and special interests that bend the ears of our politicans and their wills. Hopefully this will wake people up to the fact that our politicans are guided by the dollars that come from these groups that are the real ones responsible for most of the crap that is heaped our way.

[maniactickler]

Thank you kurch and MacPhisto...I appreciate the agreements and thus we 3 are agreed. Bush is not innocent by any means, he is guilty of letting this get out of control when he could have stepped in on Monday night and taken care of everything by ordering massive military response immediately. It is his fault for putting faith in to FEMA that he re-organized into Homeland Security which we can all see now was an utter failure. FEMA should be and should have stayed an independant department and had the cabinet position which would have had him in the EAR of Bushie and not having to go through Homeland Security first. But this problem is bigger than Bush, bigger than Republicans or Democrats..its the lobbyist and special interests that bend the ears of our politicans and their wills. Hopefully this will wake people up to the fact that our politicans are guided by the dollars that come from these groups that are the real ones responsible for most of the crap that is heaped our way.

Keep in mind, Democrats voted to put FEMA into homeland security also.

[Robace252]

Granted Bush is overall in charge. Granted that the entire senate voted to put FEMA into homeland security. Granted FEMA performed miserably. OK we all know this. But again, the fault mainly lies with FEMA and their response to this disaster. Im not saying that Bushie shouldnt shoulder some of the blame but by saying he was the main reason is both ludicrious and shows a lack of knowledge of how goverment actaully works. It works through a series of delegations. When the white house gave FEMA full authority, that was it...that was all Bushie could do except step in and take over himself. But if he did that..OOOOO NOOOOO, he was just stepping on a democratic govenor to increase his poll numbers. Thats excatly what the hard core liberals would have said. And dont try to convince me they wouldnt because we all know they would have. So what he did do is what he was supposed to do. Let those he appointed who were supposed to be able to do the job (they did it well in 2004) do the job. FEMA failed. Plain and simple. Bush didnt step in quick enough, OK. Bush is blamed for everything nowadays that goes wrong...but what about what goes right. And dont say there hasnt been anything that has been done right. Even some of the hard core libs will agree there has been some good things Bushie has done. But no one ever looks at the good..only the bad. Thats the diffrence between me and the hard left and hard right. Much like that song from the show in the 80's with Blair, Joe, and Ms. Garrett goes, everyone sing along now "You take the good, You take bad, are there you go you know have the facts of life." I think I sung it right, but if not Im pretty darn close.
*karaoke bar now closing*
*spotlight dims*
Now where the hell are my crunchberries.

[ShadowTklr]

Granted Bush is overall in charge. Granted that the entire senate voted to put FEMA into homeland security. Granted FEMA performed miserably. OK we all know this. But again, the fault mainly lies with FEMA and their response to this disaster. Im not saying that Bushie shouldnt shoulder some of the blame but by saying he was the main reason is both ludicrious and shows a lack of knowledge of how goverment actaully works. It works through a series of delegations. When the white house gave FEMA full authority, that was it...that was all Bushie could do except step in and take over himself. But if he did that..OOOOO NOOOOO, he was just stepping on a democratic govenor to increase his poll numbers. Thats excatly what the hard core liberals would have said. And dont try to convince me they wouldnt because we all know they would have. So what he did do is what he was supposed to do. Let those he appointed who were supposed to be able to do the job (they did it well in 2004) do the job. FEMA failed. Plain and simple. Bush didnt step in quick enough, OK. Bush is blamed for everything nowadays that goes wrong...but what about what goes right. And dont say there hasnt been anything that has been done right. Even some of the hard core libs will agree there has been some good things Bushie has done. But no one ever looks at the good..only the bad. Thats the diffrence between me and the hard left and hard right. Much like that song from the show in the 80's with Blair, Joe, and Ms. Garrett goes, everyone sing along now "You take the good, You take bad, are there you go you know have the facts of life." I think I sung it right, but if not Im pretty darn close.
*karaoke bar now closing*
*spotlight dims*
Now where the hell are my crunchberries.


So far, and with little exception, I don't see the problem here. Is there anyone here who believes that George Bush is single-handedly the trigger man performing the screw-ups? I don't think so. However, he is single-handedly responsible for the actions of anyone in his administration who performs poorly while under the auspices of his authority, or working within the authority granted them by HIM. This fact cannot be avoided, regardless of all the feel-good compromises you wish to make.

This "take the good with the bad" attitude would be fine, if we were talking about, let's say property damage, or something fixable. Tens of thousands of people are dead because of the decisions this man has made. That is not a simple matter of "oh well, shit happens." If I hire someone for my company and he destroys someone's home while working in the capacity in which I placed him, and that destruction was cited as incompetence or neglect, whom do you think is ultimately responsible?

I know you have already agreed to believe this premise, therefore I think the 4 of us agree, unless you think I've missed something. At least we're getting closer. lol

[isabeau]

holy wow shadow i am impressed with this thread. about florida and getting relief so soon , jeb bush. i'm not suggesting that because he is the brother of the president that this should make any difference, but it does have me wondering, also the re election could have been the reason for such swift response. and another thing bothers me, where are the ten thousand or so bodies that are supposed to be floating around out there somewhere? any ideas what happened to them? someone in courttvchat suggested that those numbers were made up, so that money would be sent faster. any thoughts about this?

isabeau

[Robace252]

First off, HI ISABEAU :wavingguy sorry I havent been on Yahoo lately but my messenger seems to be messed up.
Secondly...yes shadow we do have an agreement on most things. I must admit I was trying to think of way to use the metaphor you used about the construction company...I just couldnt think of how to put it. But you did an excellent job on that. I agree, that if someone did that in a company the individual would be held responsible and possibly criminally responsable, but that the individual would be the one to suffer harshly. But also the company would be held responsible, but not in the same way as the individual. So I think we all agree that there is plenty of responsiblity to go around, just on different levels of the disaster. As for my take the good and bad I was generally speaking and thankfully you understood that I wasnt refering to human lives. I personally hold the state and mayor responsible for the lives lost due to the poor planning on their part and for them not following their own evuacation plans that are on their own City websites. I blame them for allowing all those buses to sit in water when they could have been easily mobilized to get the poor people out of the 9th Ward that they knew couldnt get out. I blame them for telling people to go to the Superdome and to bring their own food because they were not going to provide any. I blame the local leaders for knowing their constituants better than anyone and not lifting a finger to help them get out or prepare. I also blame the state for not mobilizing fast enough. Here in North Carolina Ophellia is off the coast and our govenor (Democrat Mike Easly) even though its uncertain and at least 2 days away has already declared a state of emergancy for the coast, sent 300 National Guardsmen as the first of several thousand to "hunker down" and be ready. They have already sent power crews, Ice, Water, generators and supplies postioned near the coast to be ready. All this done through the state without any Federal Intervention. Also he has ordered a mandatory evuacation for the coastal areas of all tourists and is expected to order a mandatory evacuation of all the barrier islands by the end of the day. I can see the diffrence between a state (North Carolina) who thinks and acts proactive instead of Louisanna who acts reactive. And Ophellia is not going to be anywhere near the strength of Katrina. Why didnt the Louisanna govenor do anything that Easly has done on his own. And this isnt the first time. Every hurricane that has affected North Carolina since he has been in office has been dealt with the same way. So its not because he thinks the Feds wont help or be too late, its because he acts not reacts.

[isabeau]

hi back robace and one question is your governor up for releection? because he sounds like a keeper to me. and btw i responded in your thread about ophelia and katrina. stay safe my friend.

isabeau :cat:

[drew70]

I agree FEMA screwed up. Oh well, shit happens.

[ShadowTklr]

I agree FEMA screwed up. Oh well, shit happens.


LOL. Every now and then, my friend, you make me laugh despite myself. You scamp, you.

BTW, where have you been? I had to fight with a couple other guys to fill in for you. In fairness, it wasn't quite the same - they were lightweights. Aren't we supposed to inform each other that we're gonna be gone for a while? You didn't follow the temporary evacuation plan. tsk tsk. :)

[ShadowTklr]

First off, HI ISABEAU :wavingguy sorry I havent been on Yahoo lately but my messenger seems to be messed up.
Secondly...yes shadow we do have an agreement on most things. I must admit I was trying to think of way to use the metaphor you used about the construction company...I just couldnt think of how to put it. But you did an excellent job on that. I agree, that if someone did that in a company the individual would be held responsible and possibly criminally responsable, but that the individual would be the one to suffer harshly. But also the company would be held responsible, but not in the same way as the individual. So I think we all agree that there is plenty of responsiblity to go around, just on different levels of the disaster. As for my take the good and bad I was generally speaking and thankfully you understood that I wasnt refering to human lives. I personally hold the state and mayor responsible for the lives lost due to the poor planning on their part and for them not following their own evuacation plans that are on their own City websites. I blame them for allowing all those buses to sit in water when they could have been easily mobilized to get the poor people out of the 9th Ward that they knew couldnt get out. I blame them for telling people to go to the Superdome and to bring their own food because they were not going to provide any. I blame the local leaders for knowing their constituants better than anyone and not lifting a finger to help them get out or prepare. I also blame the state for not mobilizing fast enough. Here in North Carolina Ophellia is off the coast and our govenor (Democrat Mike Easly) even though its uncertain and at least 2 days away has already declared a state of emergancy for the coast, sent 300 National Guardsmen as the first of several thousand to "hunker down" and be ready. They have already sent power crews, Ice, Water, generators and supplies postioned near the coast to be ready. All this done through the state without any Federal Intervention. Also he has ordered a mandatory evuacation for the coastal areas of all tourists and is expected to order a mandatory evacuation of all the barrier islands by the end of the day. I can see the diffrence between a state (North Carolina) who thinks and acts proactive instead of Louisanna who acts reactive. And Ophellia is not going to be anywhere near the strength of Katrina. Why didnt the Louisanna govenor do anything that Easly has done on his own. And this isnt the first time. Every hurricane that has affected North Carolina since he has been in office has been dealt with the same way. So its not because he thinks the Feds wont help or be too late, its because he acts not reacts.

Thanks for the kudos on the analogy, Rob. I think we may have reached that point where we agree on most everything regarding this incident. It’s almost time to alert the media that we have reached consensus.

Regarding your questions about New Orleans, I can’t answer why Blanco and Nagin didn’t act with the same preparedness as Easley, but in thinking about that question, I did come up with an observation that may offer some logical speculation.

New Orleans hasn't had a hurricane of this magnitude enter its city in 65 years. North Carolina sees this kind of thing much more often. Also, in Florida, prior to Charlie, the FEMA folks coordinated with other federal agencies so quickly, that local government really didn’t have to worry too much about fending for themselves for an extended period of time.

It seems, however, that Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagin are being heavily criticized for doing precisely what Jeb Bush did in Florida, which was to make an early call for the cavalry and keep the lines of communication going to help coordinate relief efforts from those agencies. I’m speculating that perhaps the Governor, and mayor both felt that the response from FEMA would be equivalent to that of Florida.

When you look at the response from the government regarding hurricane Charley, it took 1.5 days for FEMA’s first response teams to be on the scene with supplies, and medical personnel in place. Looking at the timeline for Katrina, you see that Bush agreed to declare a state of emergency in Louisiana on Saturday, and FEMA was immediately given full authority to act. If New Orleans had received the same 36-hour response time afforded to Florida prior to Hurricane Charley, there would have been emergency relief presence on the scene by Monday morning, and the whole blame on both FEMA and the local government would have averted.

So, I was thinking, if that’s true, then why should local government bear the same degree of blame as the Federal Government? Also, if the local government had been Republicans, would the conservatives still ascribe the same amount of blame to them under the same conditions, or would they have found some mitigating circumstances, such as the one I’m proposing?

I would like to think (and I may be wrong) that the Gov. and Mayor would have acted much more expeditiously, had they known it would take 4 days to get any real federal government help in place. It just seems like an inequitable balance of blame.

[MrMacphisto]

If the money is well spent and saves lives then I would be all for it. :D The bottom line IMHO is to use whatever money is spent to help the most people as quickly and efficiently as possible.

I can't argue with that. The thing is... these government programs were set up with that in mind, but I guess their expectations greatly exceeded their performance. I'm open to the private route, but the government should definitely keep an eye on private firms they hire, because there have been cases where private companies have wasted even more government money than government agencies have....

[MrMacphisto]

. . . . and FEMA is under Bush and run by friends of his he had appointed!

And Bush and his administration's apathetic response should have everyone concerned and realizing this administration puts the human factor well below the corporate factor in a matter of importance.

This is true... Bush is definitely more corporate oriented than people seem to realize. The problem is that this could also be said of most of our government right now....

[MrMacphisto]

Keep in mind, Democrats voted to put FEMA into homeland security also.

Wow... you actually made a good point. Anyway, yeah... The Department of Homeland Security was a bipartisan mistake just like the Patriot Act....

[MrMacphisto]

hi back robace and one question is your governor up for releection? because he sounds like a keeper to me. and btw i responded in your thread about ophelia and katrina. stay safe my friend.

isabeau :cat:

Easley was re-elected this past year. He's a decent governor, and he won by quite a margin because his rival was a total moron (Ballantine).