Barry Bonds..did he or didnt he. What do you think

[Robace252]

Barry Bonds...misunderstood great player or jealous pouting player that used steroids to make himself better.
I personally think he used steroids. I look at the evidence (circumstantial I know) and I only can only think he juiced up.
Now the question would be what would you do to him. Erase his records, asterisk his records. To me thats not enough and you really cant punish him now for what he did then and MLB was too stupid or blind (or even looked the other way) back then.
I have a solution though, I would tell EVERY PITCHER that Bonds faces this year to walk him. Let him have the record for Most Walks in a season. I would intentionally walk him ALL SEASON. He would never get past Ruth or the overall Home Run record. And you know it would IRRITATE HIM (Bonds) to no end that no one was pitching to him and hed never get the record. Perhaps he would get the hint and just walk away.
If I was Selig...I would send that "encoded" message to all pitchers and team managers. I just think baseball needs to do something to address this, because the group of those (McGwire, Sosa, Palmero, Bonds, Cansaco) have made baseball no longer the American Passtime, but the American "I Passed my test this Time"

Rob

[Knox The Hatter]

The debate was settled long ago.

I will NOT watch him pass Ruth. I will NOT watch him pass Aaron.

I will NOT watch any of the video that will record these events...if it comes on TV, I will change the channel. Period.

I do not, and will not acknowledge Barry Bonds as home run king of anything. His records are as bogus as a dollar bill with Washington Irving's picture on it. I acknowledge the seasonal record as still being held by the late one Roger Eugene Maris, of Fargo, North Dakota, as set back in 1961. Aaron really worked for his record, and he should keep it.

Many people will eventually do the same thing I will.

[ticklingfeet4fu]

MISUNDERSTOOD??? Are you kidding??? He is a baby. A great player but a BIG BABY. He did steriods. My friends can say alledged all they want but he did steriods. He was a Hall of Famer before steriods. But the records should be placed with an asterisk.

[german]

Baseball is not strong point for me but I have watched ESPN to a point were I wanted smash the TV because all they spoke about was this. All I know is that nothing has been proved, my argument is that not long ago a rumor about me using steroids (even though it was started by a real b****h) was started even though my career is over and that I knew it was bull it still hurt as people questioned whether or not I was on them when I made rep sides for football and even now were she came out and said she was trying to get at me I still have this asterisk over me in eyes of some people. Something this serious in today's society; drug cheats in sport only when something is proved should it be announced because even the notion has damaging effects.

Until it is proved he in fact has taken roids his records should stand but if (when) it proved, everything with his name on it should be scrapped and no way should he even be considered for the hall of fame. I got no time for cheats in general but especially in sports.

Kust

[Tickle_Fiend05]

Barry Bonds...misunderstood great player or jealous pouting player that used steroids to make himself better.
I personally think he used steroids. I look at the evidence (circumstantial I know) and I only can only think he juiced up.
Now the question would be what would you do to him. Erase his records, asterisk his records. To me thats not enough and you really cant punish him now for what he did then and MLB was too stupid or blind (or even looked the other way) back then.
I have a solution though, I would tell EVERY PITCHER that Bonds faces this year to walk him. Let him have the record for Most Walks in a season. I would intentionally walk him ALL SEASON. He would never get past Ruth or the overall Home Run record. And you know it would IRRITATE HIM (Bonds) to no end that no one was pitching to him and hed never get the record. Perhaps he would get the hint and just walk away.
If I was Selig...I would send that "encoded" message to all pitchers and team managers. I just think baseball needs to do something to address this, because the group of those (McGwire, Sosa, Palmero, Bonds, Cansaco) have made baseball no longer the American Passtime, but the American "I Passed my test this Time"

Rob

It wasn't those players who made baseball no longer Americas Pastime...the MLB fu*ked up and their time passed. As for Bonds, we dont know if he did steroids for sure. You can accuse all you want, you have no proof. People want to make a big deal out of this book as if these allegations are new. I saw on espn.com yesterday that Selig supposedly will investigate Bonds to see if he used steroids. I think a lot of people have had it out for Bonds for a while. If he investigates him, which I feel is BS, I hope it finally puts steroid accusation against that man to rest. I won't believe it until I see proof. The only obvious users are Raffy and McGwire. McGwire is the biggest idiot and made it quite obvious he used them when he came to D.C. I will watch when Bonds passes Ruth and I will watch if he passes Aaron, this year or next. Great player who has took a lot of BS from the media and fans outside of San Fran for years.

[Robace252]

As for Bonds, we dont know if he did steroids for sure. You can accuse all you want, you have no proof.

True..like I said in my first post...
I personally think he used steroids. I look at the evidence (circumstantial I know) and I only can only think he juiced up.

Its all not hard concrete evidence..or if you wish there is NO hard concrete evidence, but sometimes you dont have to have "the smoking gun" to know someone got shot. The body with the bullet hole and the bullet sticking in the wall behind someone is enough to figure out someone got shot.
I dont hate Bonds...I just think that he is certainly not the "I worked hard" poster boy. IMHO I believe that he juiced up...I look at the pictures and the evidence and I can only think that. Will he ever admit it, lets not kid ourselves he will never do that. I can only hope that perhaps even if he did come out and answer every allegation we still wouldnt believe him. SO I can agree that he is in a no win situation and its probally better he continue to go along and not say anything.
Its a no win situation....but MLB needs to shoulder some of the blame for a no-policy or a policy of dont tell, we wont ask.

Rob

[milagros317]

There may never be any proof, but my opinion of him can be summed up in one word:

GUILTY!!!!!

[slacker2114]

I'm really not into baseball, but it's kinda hard to avoid the whole thing on the news. All I can say is, he was about half the thickness he is now when he was on the Pirates. Was he using? I'd have to say most definitly. But in all fairness, I think he's being singled out. I'm quite sure Mr. Bonds is not the only one using that they don't know about. He was just dumb enough to get busted.

[ticklingfeet4fu]

You want proof that he was using??? Ask the Pirates what his hat size was in 1986. Ask the Giants what his hat size was in 2002. There is your proof. Unless there is a workout regimen for your head to gain 4 hat sizes. Once you have grown into a hat size, that is it. Your head stops growing. His head swelled up for the last 8 years like he was hit with a bat everyday. Besides, we have Barry's own words to indict him. He said after the 1998 season that he was going to use 'stuff' and he hoped it wouldn't do permanent damage to his body. I am pretty positive he wasn't talking about vitamin C drops.

[Knox The Hatter]

There are people who believe that OJ is still looking for the real killers.

[ticklingfeet4fu]

There are people who believe that OJ is still looking for the real killers.
There are also people who believe they hear footsteps on the roof at Christmas Eve too!!! :jester:

[unclebill]

I have been lifting weights for several years, and I can assure you that your head doesn`t get larger from working out. I wish MLB would suspend him before he breaks any more records.

[kered]

There may never be any proof, but my opinion of him can be summed up in one word:

GUILTY!!!!!
In a word:DITTO

[primetime]

BEYOND GUILTY. like Rob wrote, i hope he is intentionally walked every time. he does not deserve to break Aaron's record and he does not deserve to break Ruth's record. the man is a pimple on an ass.

[ticklingfeet4fu]

I have been lifting weights for several years, and I can assure you that your head doesn`t get larger from working out. I wish MLB would suspend him before he breaks any more records.Can't suspend him. There were no rules unfortunately in place. Now they actually need to catch him. It is not fair. Bud " I am never up to a challenge " Selig NEEDS to make sure if the record is broken that it is noted that he is suspected of using Steriods.

[Soulfly]

The debate was settled long ago.

I will NOT watch him pass Ruth. I will NOT watch him pass Aaron.

I will NOT watch any of the video that will record these events...if it comes on TV, I will change the channel. Period.

I do not, and will not acknowledge Barry Bonds as home run king of anything. His records are as bogus as a dollar bill with Washington Irving's picture on it. I acknowledge the seasonal record as still being held by the late one Roger Eugene Maris, of Fargo, North Dakota, as set back in 1961. Aaron really worked for his record, and he should keep it.

Many people will eventually do the same thing I will.


I agree completely!

[ticklingfeet4fu]

The debate was settled long ago.

I will NOT watch him pass Ruth. I will NOT watch him pass Aaron.

I will NOT watch any of the video that will record these events...if it comes on TV, I will change the channel. Period.

I do not, and will not acknowledge Barry Bonds as home run king of anything. His records are as bogus as a dollar bill with Washington Irving's picture on it. I acknowledge the seasonal record as still being held by the late one Roger Eugene Maris, of Fargo, North Dakota, as set back in 1961. Aaron really worked for his record, and he should keep it.

Many people will eventually do the same thing I will.I agree with you completely. I know that I will not acknowledge the accomplishment because he did nothing but cheat the game. But lets be fair too!!! MLB Owners as well as agents and the MLBPA also have to be held accountable here too. They knew and didn't do a DARN thing about it. That is where hypocrisy comes into play here.

[giantfan121262]

The debate was settled long ago.

I will NOT watch him pass Ruth. I will NOT watch him pass Aaron.

I will NOT watch any of the video that will record these events...if it comes on TV, I will change the channel. Period.

I do not, and will not acknowledge Barry Bonds as home run king of anything. His records are as bogus as a dollar bill with Washington Irving's picture on it. I acknowledge the seasonal record as still being held by the late one Roger Eugene Maris, of Fargo, North Dakota, as set back in 1961. Aaron really worked for his record, and he should keep it.

Many people will eventually do the same thing I will.

I happen to agree with Knox as well. If Bonds didn't do it, then OJ is innocent (that was the verdict, but come on), come on. I think this whole BALCO thing is so fucking ridiculuos, that everythime I see it in the papers, I find something else to read. How do you go from a skinny 180 to a bulky 240. It's about time they crack down and start bringing some integrity back. One way would be to subtract some homeruns from his total. Realistically, there will never be a sesaon where Bonds will go without hitting a home run, but if you credit him with half of his total for 5 years, how many will that give him??? Milagros????? He will be probably pushing 600 right now as we speak, and be no where near Ruth OR Aaron.

[qjakal]

Bonds isn't half the man Aaron was despite being twice his size.

Q

[daddy]

Even though I am agaisnt the use of steroids I still don't understand what that has to do with a man's ability to SEE a 100mph fastball, react to it, make the proper swing, field a ball, throw accuratley and so on. Now what...nobody cares about skill level? Barry Bonds was a great ball player when he was a rookie in Pittsburg and he is a great player now. So the steroids increase muscle mass...so freakin' what...should have been banned from the start. Just ask yourself how many of the other "greats" then are not legitimate in your book?

Yeah Barry...I wish ya hadn't used the streoids...but in my book you are still a great ball player!

peace out,
daddy

[Goodieluver]

The debate was settled long ago.

I will NOT watch him pass Ruth. I will NOT watch him pass Aaron.

I will NOT watch any of the video that will record these events...if it comes on TV, I will change the channel. Period.

I do not, and will not acknowledge Barry Bonds as home run king of anything. His records are as bogus as a dollar bill with Washington Irving's picture on it. I acknowledge the seasonal record as still being held by the late one Roger Eugene Maris, of Fargo, North Dakota, as set back in 1961. Aaron really worked for his record, and he should keep it.

Many people will eventually do the same thing I will.

Do you therefore not watch any clip of mcgwire or sosa during their hr runs?

[Goodieluver]

In this country, innocent untill proven guilty so untill he pee's roids or admits it, we have to say he doesnt take roids. You cant say "he got bigger, therefore he is guilty" Who knows, there are other illigal substances out there to build muscle mass like hgh and others,not necessarily roids

Im glad he wont pass aaron because he will not last long enough but sadly he will pass ruth. I will watch because it is baseball history

If i was a manager, i would bean bonds every time he came to the plate or throw every pitch inside, either he will get hit or walked, either way, he wont crowd the plate against my team

[Warheart]

Whether he did or didnt is irrelevant. Its never been proven that being built like the Incredible Hulk makes you hit home runs. A lot of skinny athletes hit loads of homeruns such as Alex Rodruiguez and Alfonso Soriano. San Francisco Giants legend Will Clark had spaghetti arms. When asked does he lift weights he said that the extra bulk WILL DECREASE HIS FLEXIBILITY WHICH WOULD DECREASE HIS POWER AND MAKE HIM UNABLE TO HIT WELL. Thats not from me folks thats from a possible Hall of Famer who hit a lot of homeruns. So take those steroids if ya want guys, it doesnt mean a thing in my eyes and I say this...Barry Bonds with no good hitters protecting him in the Giants lineup is the greatest hitter in major league history. Thats simply the truth. :veryhappy

[Goodieluver]

Whether he did or didnt is irrelevant. Its never been proven that being built like the Incredible Hulk makes you hit home runs. A lot of skinny athletes hit loads of homeruns such as Alex Rodruiguez and Alfonso Soriano. San Francisco Giants legend Will Clark had spaghetti arms. When asked does he lift weights he said that the extra bulk WILL DECREASE HIS FLEXIBILITY WHICH WOULD DECREASE HIS POWER AND MAKE HIM UNABLE TO HIT WELL. Thats not from me folks thats from a possible Hall of Famer who hit a lot of homeruns. So take those steroids if ya want guys, it doesnt mean a thing in my eyes and I say this...Barry Bonds with no good hitters protecting him in the Giants lineup is the greatest hitter in major league history. Thats simply the truth. :veryhappy


Boggs, clark and others didnt have their primes during the watered down pitching we have now. We got AA to AAAA level players pitching where they shouldnt. They continue to lower the mound to juice the ball and winding the ball tighter. And he is not the greatest hitter in MLB history, ted williams is, nuff said on that.

[Warheart]

Boggs, clark and others didnt have their primes during the watered down pitching we have now. We got AA to AAAA level players pitching where they shouldnt. They continue to lower the mound to juice the ball and winding the ball tighter. And he is not the greatest hitter in MLB history, ted williams is, nuff said on that.

Ted Williams had great hitters protecting him...Bonds had Edgardo Alfonso. I say more power to the guys who do steroids! These players make near hundreds of millions of dollars a year so they should do everything possible to make sure the fans are entertained. Who cares if its legal or not? The Sopranos is the highest rated cable show of all times because people get a vicarous thrill out of ones enemies being taken out on a whim and then making money of it...and that happens in real life I assure you. So I say set those needles up boys! If it were me id make it mandatory that the 3,4 and 5 hitters in the lineup TAKE steroids. The game of baseball was bought and sold a long time ago and ethics bore me...I want entertainment! :triangle:

[shyguy]

Look at a picture of Bonds from his days with the Pirates. Then take a look at him today. He is so puffed up it is hilarious. Why did it take baseball so long to do something serious about the steroid use by their overpayed, overhyped, pampered players ?


Anthony

[Goodieluver]

Ted Williams had great hitters protecting him...Bonds had Edgardo Alfonso. I say more power to the guys who do steroids! These players make near hundreds of millions of dollars a year so they should do everything possible to make sure the fans are entertained. Who cares if its legal or not? The Sopranos is the highest rated cable show of all times because people get a vicarous thrill out of ones enemies being taken out on a whim and then making money of it...and that happens in real life I assure you. So I say set those needles up boys! If it were me id make it mandatory that the 3,4 and 5 hitters in the lineup TAKE steroids. The game of baseball was bought and sold a long time ago and ethics bore me...I want entertainment! :triangle:


And at one point bonds had jeff kent protecting and if you look at other teams like ramirez\ortiz or konerko\thome\dye. None of these guys will ever hit .400 in a season multiple times like williams do. Hell Mickey Mantel had some of the greatest hitters ever protecting him and he only hit .365 once. Ted williams averaged .344 batting average and he never struck out more than 51 times in a season. Finally, Bonds' last 5 years with how many walks he's gotten are more than Ted williams got in his entire career.

[Goodieluver]

Look at a picture of Bonds from his days with the Pirates. Then take a look at him today. He is so puffed up it is hilarious. Why did it take baseball so long to do something serious about the steroid use by their overpayed, overhyped, pampered players ?


Anthony


Look at any sport, all athletes have gotten huge, either from artificial means or just working hard. Again i will state, innocent untill proven

[Warheart]

And at one point bonds had jeff kent protecting and if you look at other teams like ramirez\ortiz or konerko\thome\dye. None of these guys will ever hit .400 in a season multiple times like williams do. Hell Mickey Mantel had some of the greatest hitters ever protecting him and he only hit .365 once. Ted williams averaged .344 batting average and he never struck out more than 51 times in a season. Finally, Bonds' last 5 years with how many walks he's gotten are more than Ted williams got in his entire career.

I gotta admit you make a good point goodieluver. Williams was great indeed and your reasoning is sound. Bonds you must concede then is the greates home run hitter of all time then, you cant argue with that....can you? :scared:

[Redmage]

In this country, innocent untill proven guilty so untill he pee's roids or admits it, we have to say he doesnt take roids.That's the standard required of our courts. It's certainly true that Bonds can't be convicted of steroid use (a federal felony) based on the evidence we have. We in the general public are perfectly free to draw conclusions from that evidence, though.

[Goodieluver]

I gotta admit you make a good point goodieluver. Williams was great indeed and your reasoning is sound. Bonds you must concede then is the greates home run hitter of all time then, you cant argue with that....can you? :scared:

How do you reason he is the greatest hr hitter of all time

[Warheart]

How do you reason he is the greatest hr hitter of all time

Damn! Youre tough! :wowzer: Ok because hes poised to hit the most home runs in history and he holds the single season record. Dont sing too much about Babe Ruth because he didnt hit against Hispanic Pitchers and Black Pitchers and Hispanic Pitchers who have plenty to contribute to the mound. Im a Yankee fan and I admit that. Somehow I know youll have another answer. Go ahead! :whip:

[dajerx]

I think if Bonds wasnt such a dick, no one would care.

Did anybody in here honestly think Mark and Sammy werent juicing when they were battling? Of course they were, as we all know now (and the insiders knew then). The only difference with those two guys and Bonds is, they would smile for the camera, sign autographs, do interviews, endorse Pepsi and McDonalds, and all the other shit that the fans were craving because baseball was on life support. Bonds doesnt give two shits about the fans, so of course, the fans hate his guts. They would hate him if he hit .189 and 5 HR year; the fact that he is crushing records and doesnt care about them makes fans ill.

Personally, I find it amusing. Baseball doesnt garner ratings anymore. Bud Selig has run the sport into the ground. The only thing that saved this sport was steroids, and now everybody wants to be holier than thou about the usage. Clean the sport up....astericks by records....all of that is a joke. If it wasnt for hockey, baseball would be the least watched sport on television in the US. It probably doesnt beat NFL Europe in some markets. It isnt even a close number three to the NFL. Baseball fans should almost be thankful there were steroids or they may not have had anything to watch at all now.

[natural tickler]

It is very funny to me how everyone here and around the country is convicting this man on speculation. You guys ever heard of innocent until proven guilty??? obviously not. There hasn't been any proof. Wait until there is proof before you crucify.

For all those who have played sports, and worked out before:

It is possible during an offseason to hit the gym really hard and gain muscle. There have been times before I put on good weight, and I lived in a gym. It is possible.

And while we're at it, lemme throw this nugget at you. People think Bonds is on the juice for what he is doing after age 40. Nobody is questioning Clemens on what he is doing. I guess that's okay though, huh??

This whole witchhunt, (which this truly is btw) has a tinge of racism in it. You don't see no one ripping McGwire to shreds. You guys believe if McGwire was still playing they would investigate like they'r doing now??? I highly doubt it

[FlockOfSeagulls]

Whether he did or didnt is irrelevant. Its never been proven that being built like the Incredible Hulk makes you hit home runs. A lot of skinny athletes hit loads of homeruns such as Alex Rodruiguez and Alfonso Soriano. San Francisco Giants legend Will Clark had spaghetti arms. When asked does he lift weights he said that the extra bulk WILL DECREASE HIS FLEXIBILITY WHICH WOULD DECREASE HIS POWER AND MAKE HIM UNABLE TO HIT WELL. Thats not from me folks thats from a possible Hall of Famer who hit a lot of homeruns. So take those steroids if ya want guys, it doesnt mean a thing in my eyes and I say this...Barry Bonds with no good hitters protecting him in the Giants lineup is the greatest hitter in major league history. Thats simply the truth. :veryhappy

You have a right to your opinion, but some of your comments are not on the money.First ,Will Clark is not a homerun hitter.Second, some of the best bodybuilders in the world have incredible flexibility.And yes Steroids will not help your hand eye coordination, but if you are born with that then being bigger and stronger will allow you to hit the ball much farther.And Alex Rodriguez IS NOT a skinny guy. I have had Rangers season tickets for years and have seen Will Clark and Alex Rodriguez play in 100`s of games.

[Goodieluver]

It is very funny to me how everyone here and around the country is convicting this man on speculation. You guys ever heard of innocent until proven guilty??? obviously not. There hasn't been any proof. Wait until there is proof before you crucify.

For all those who have played sports, and worked out before:

It is possible during an offseason to hit the gym really hard and gain muscle. There have been times before I put on good weight, and I lived in a gym. It is possible.

And while we're at it, lemme throw this nugget at you. People think Bonds is on the juice for what he is doing after age 40. Nobody is questioning Clemens on what he is doing. I guess that's okay though, huh??

This whole witchhunt, (which this truly is btw) has a tinge of racism in it. You don't see no one ripping McGwire to shreds. You guys believe if McGwire was still playing they would investigate like they'r doing now??? I highly doubt it

Clemens is not on roids because bigger muscles have no corelation to pitch speed\skill. Its worse for a pitcher to be bigger. Clemens, like nolan ryan, had amazing skill and endurance to pitch into their 40s

also, i did address the issue of innocent untill proven before

and during the senate hearings, the only black person being questioned was sosa, the rest were mcgwire and palmiero(yes he's latino but im goin by color specific) and they did rip on mcgwire and canseco early on but they werent in the midst of taking the "most treasured" title in baseball

Point is this though, bonds has not proven being innocent. He claims that his word means he's innocent, if he wants to silence people, piss in a cup. A reporter heard this from sosa, and produced a pee cup and he was insulted and walked out

[Goodieluver]

Damn! Youre tough! :wowzer: Ok because hes poised to hit the most home runs in history and he holds the single season record. Dont sing too much about Babe Ruth because he didnt hit against Hispanic Pitchers and Black Pitchers and Hispanic Pitchers who have plenty to contribute to the mound. Im a Yankee fan and I admit that. Somehow I know youll have another answer. Go ahead! :whip:

Alright lets see

Ty cobb has the record for most times stealing home, does this mean he is the best base stealer in baseball history? No it means he terrified catchers cuz he spiked you if u got in the way. Craig biggio is about 10 hit by batsmens away from being the sole holder of the record for that, does that mean he's the best defensive batter cuz he can get on base alot? Yes bonds has the record for single season, but has he come close to that since? Ruth hit hi 50's several times DURING A DEAD BALL ERA! He had more homeruns than entire teams at points.

And yer right, Ruth didnt face hispanic or black pitchers, he faced better
He just faced walter johnson, christy mathewson, ed rommell,red faber,dutch leonard, red ruffing and the list goes on. NONE of these hispanic pitchers or black pitchers will become legendary like these guys. 50 years from now there wont be no "the story of pedro martinez and his fast ball" but there are "the story of walter johnson and the spitter" and whatnot. Your comment just strengthens the fact of ruth and aaron, because they played during non juiced years and better pitching

[Redmage]

The thing that frustrates/amuses me is that baseball banned Pete Rose for the sin of gambling. But cheating apparently isn't as important.

[Goodieluver]

The thing that frustrates/amuses me is that baseball banned Pete Rose for the sin of gambling. But cheating apparently isn't as important.

Eh, to quote bobby heenan "Win if you can, lose if you must, but always cheat and never get caught"

[Redmage]

Eh, to quote bobby heenan "Win if you can, lose if you must, but always cheat and never get caught"Well, let's think about this logically. Why is it against the league rules for a player or manager to bet on a game? Because it might encourage him to cheat in order to swing the game in his favor. So because it might lead to cheating, it's worthy of a lifetime ban.

But when it becomes common knowledge that several major players have been cheating flagrantly for years, the league turns a blind eye.

The only difference I can see is, Pete Rose wasn't who the fans paid to see.

[Warheart]

Alright lets see

Ty cobb has the record for most times stealing home, does this mean he is the best base stealer in baseball history? No it means he terrified catchers cuz he spiked you if u got in the way. Craig biggio is about 10 hit by batsmens away from being the sole holder of the record for that, does that mean he's the best defensive batter cuz he can get on base alot? Yes bonds has the record for single season, but has he come close to that since? Ruth hit hi 50's several times DURING A DEAD BALL ERA! He had more homeruns than entire teams at points.

And yer right, Ruth didnt face hispanic or black pitchers, he faced better
He just faced walter johnson, christy mathewson, ed rommell,red faber,dutch leonard, red ruffing and the list goes on. NONE of these hispanic pitchers or black pitchers will become legendary like these guys. 50 years from now there wont be no "the story of pedro martinez and his fast ball" but there are "the story of walter johnson and the spitter" and whatnot. Your comment just strengthens the fact of ruth and aaron, because they played during non juiced years and better pitching

Sorry Goodie but ya lost me there. First off it seems EVERY player who played in fuzzy black and white footage is honored as a legendary player no matter what he did. Its a case of memory filtering out the bad shit. Babe Ruth was a massive strike out victim but no one remembers that. And Pedro Martinez, Mariano Rivera and a whole host of minority pitchers were leagues above some 1940's pitcher with a cute first name like "Shorty" or something. Its like when Larry Holmes tied Rocky Marciano's undefeated streak with a victory over the skinny female Micheal Spinks. The judges gave it to Spinks as not to tarnish the white Marciano's record. Then Holmes beat Spinks again more decisively and the judges STILL gave it to Spinks!!! In anger Holmes said, "Rocky Marciano couldnt carry my jock strap!" He was right. In a fair match Holmes would permanently hurt Marciano but because ol' Rocky was in the fuzzy black and white days hes a legend. You must stop idolizing players like Lefty, Shorty, and Speedy and put the proper players into perspective. Add a little color in your life...in more ways that one! :triangle:

[FlockOfSeagulls]

The bigger & more muscular Bonds got, the more homeruns he hit.You don`t see any correlation here, if you don`t then you are not looking!

[Goodieluver]

Sorry Goodie but ya lost me there. First off it seems EVERY player who played in fuzzy black and white footage is honored as a legendary player no matter what he did. Its a case of memory filtering out the bad shit. Babe Ruth was a massive strike out victim but no one remembers that. And Pedro Martinez, Mariano Rivera and a whole host of minority pitchers were leagues above some 1940's pitcher with a cute first name like "Shorty" or something. Its like when Larry Holmes tied Rocky Marciano's undefeated streak with a victory over the skinny female Micheal Spinks. The judges gave it to Spinks as not to tarnish the white Marciano's record. Then Holmes beat Spinks again more decisively and the judges STILL gave it to Spinks!!! In anger Holmes said, "Rocky Marciano couldnt carry my jock strap!" He was right. In a fair match Holmes would permanently hurt Marciano but because ol' Rocky was in the fuzzy black and white days hes a legend. You must stop idolizing players like Lefty, Shorty, and Speedy and put the proper players into perspective. Add a little color in your life...in more ways that one! :triangle:

Ok, how about other idols like mickey, joe, yogi and ted. These guys played during a DEAD BALL ERA where players did not hit homeruns cuz of the pitching talent. Back then you had pitchers throwing knuckleballs, spitballs, eephus, more than just the straight ball which 95% of pitchers throw, and the 5% left either throw a curveball shittily or master it.

what stat are u looking at, babe ruth struck out 1330 times in his career, which places him 78th all time, lets look at some players who have more, if not double his strikeouts in less time played

sammy sosa,jim thome, andres gallaraga, barry bonds, griffey jr, etc etc.

and dont get started in boxing, the fighters of jack dempsey, jack lamotta, rocky marciano, jack johnson would destroy any boxer of current day. They knew how to take a punch

[isabeau]

barry bonds to be indicted for lying to the grand jury about his steroid use..

isabeau

[Doubledutch]

The way things are going, the whole issue might become moot.

http://www.forbes.com/technology/feeds/ap/2006/05/20/ap2760648.html

[CitY of MicA]

Sorry Goodie but ya lost me there. First off it seems EVERY player who played in fuzzy black and white footage is honored as a legendary player no matter what he did. Its a case of memory filtering out the bad shit. Babe Ruth was a massive strike out victim but no one remembers that. And Pedro Martinez, Mariano Rivera and a whole host of minority pitchers were leagues above some 1940's pitcher with a cute first name like "Shorty" or something. Its like when Larry Holmes tied Rocky Marciano's undefeated streak with a victory over the skinny female Micheal Spinks. The judges gave it to Spinks as not to tarnish the white Marciano's record. Then Holmes beat Spinks again more decisively and the judges STILL gave it to Spinks!!! In anger Holmes said, "Rocky Marciano couldnt carry my jock strap!" He was right. In a fair match Holmes would permanently hurt Marciano but because ol' Rocky was in the fuzzy black and white days hes a legend. You must stop idolizing players like Lefty, Shorty, and Speedy and put the proper players into perspective. Add a little color in your life...in more ways that one!

I'm not a Rocky Marciano fan, but I couldn't really let this stand. He is not a legend because he was in the fuzzy black and white days. He's a legend because he was a legitimate 49-0. 43 of those wins were by knockout. It's remarkable. He fought some very good fighters (Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, etc.). There's really very little in the way of controversy surrounding his record (the first decision to Charles, perhaps?). Michael Spinks was a strong light-heavyweight. Obviously, he had no business moving up. But if you feel that he was a 'skinny, female,' that Holmes most certainly should have knocked him out to tie Marciano's record (TKO, we'll say- I know Holmes was not a knock-out artist).

[Goodieluver]

I'm not a Rocky Marciano fan, but I couldn't really let this stand. He is not a legend because he was in the fuzzy black and white days. He's a legend because he was a legitimate 49-0. 43 of those wins were by knockout. It's remarkable. He fought some very good fighters (Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles, Archie Moore, etc.). There's really very little in the way of controversy surrounding his record (the first decision to Charles, perhaps?). Michael Spinks was a strong light-heavyweight. Obviously, he had no business moving up. But if you feel that he was a 'skinny, female,' that Holmes most certainly should have knocked him out to tie Marciano's record (TKO, we'll say- I know Holmes was not a knock-out artist).


Id love to see a dream fight of dempsey vs marciano...what a brawl that woulda been

[luvgirlsfeet]

If he did he'll probably continue to deny it until he retires the only problem is the only person he is hurting is himself

[Knox The Hatter]

Looking at the way Bonds has slowed down, it's entirely conceivable that next year, at this time, he could be only in the 730s, struggling not only to get one homer per month, but in keeping his b/a over .200.

How apt that each one of those desperate at-bats could be narrated by a man with a darkish complexion, thick, wavy black hair, and an ever-present cigarette...commenting how all finally came to naught, and how Barry Bonds will forever be seen flailing wildly and helplessly at fastballs he can't get around anymore...in The Twilight Zone.