Reality vs Fantasy

[TklDuo-Ann]

I've been wondering about this for a while. So, I finally decided to post about it. There are constantly threads being started about which (insert category of hot women) you would like to tickle or be tickled by. But, there's not all that much posting about real life experiences...or even reasonable expectations to do so.

My question is twofold...

For those who post these types of threads, do you ever get to enjoy tickling in real life? Or is this fantasy stuff your only outlet? I'm not making any judgment about it, just trying to understand.

For those who do get to enjoy tickling in real life (and I include myself in this), why not post about it more? Again, no judgments. Just wondering.

To answer my own question, as one who does get to enjoy it IRL on a regular basis, I choose not to post about it primarily because I don't feel like being the subject of someone else's fantasy. I don't consider fantasy to be bad, provided it's within reason. A certain amount of fantasy is actually considered to be healthy. It just seems a bit disproportionate to me. But, perhaps it's just the makeup and situations of the group. (I'd say community. But, it no longer feels much like community to me with all the backstabbing and shit throwing I've been seeing of late.)

Ann

[NAYA]

I've posted losts of real experiences I've had but mostly in the story section...

[amalelee4u]

as far as your real life being someone elses outlet to fantasy i would be honored to to have someone consider my real life experiences a fantasy LOL. Its people like you who give those out there that are too shy,geographically challenged etc.etc. any hope i would prefer to see more real life experiences on here than fantasy

[LindyHopper]

For those who do get to enjoy tickling in real life (and I include myself in this), why not post about it more? Again, no judgments. Just wondering.
Wow, what an interesting question! Let me think about it...

I've posted about my true tickling experiences a few times. A few have been responses to topics in Tickling Discussion, that got me recalling interesting, and topic-relevant, experiences that I've had. I guess the short answer to that one is, give me interesting questions, and I'll come up with interesting stories! ;)

Other times that I've written about true experiences, I did so as a way to help me organize my own thoughts about what had happened. In those cases, the events had something unique about them, that I wanted to sort out in my own mind. The stories that came out were kind of a by-product of that process.

I have a lot more true experiences than I write about, and one reason is that as enjoyable as a straightforward tied-and-tickled session is, writing about it isn't necessarily interesting for me to do. I guess I also feel like it wouldn't be interesting for other people to read, because many true experiences are more or less the same.

I tend to think that fantasy and reality are two different things. My mental fantasies often center around my favorite real-life people and situations, but when I'm reading stories, my favorites aren't usually true experiences. There's a lot you can do with the fantastic that's really cool, and if my real-life experiences are grounded in the normal, then it's fun to spend some fantasy time in the world of captured heroines or tickling machines. And I think for some people, that fantasy world consists of hot celebrities. I figure that's not qualitatively different from what I do, it's just a difference in tastes.

To answer my own question, as one who does get to enjoy it IRL on a regular basis, I choose not to post about it primarily because I don't feel like being the subject of someone else's fantasy.
I think about this, too. When I'm writing about my own experiences, I try to make the experience the focus, not me, or the 'ler(s) - not that our identities are secret, but I don't include physical descriptions or anything like that. I figure the people reading my stuff are either total strangers, or friends of mine, and those are both groups of people that I feel comfortable having read things I've written. I'd much more hesitant about posting photos or video, because of the "ick" factor of being some stranger's stroke material. I guess writing under a screenname feels anonymous enough to me, while having my face out there doesn't.

(I'd say community. But, it no longer feels much like community to me with all the backstabbing and shit throwing I've been seeing of late.)
Yeah, I know what you mean. But I can't think of any large community where every single person gets along with every other one. Sure, there's animosity out there, and sometimes I'm even involved, but I still have an overwhelming feeling of affection and belonging with the group as a whole. The shit is what stands out, because it's louder, but there's still a lot of interesting, thoughtful content, and interesting, thoughtful people. :)

[milagros317]

I've posted my real life experiences as nonfiction stories, and they've been very popular. But I love to have fantasies also, and you can find those in full length form as my fiction stories.

[Mastertank1]

I've been wondering about this for a while. So, I finally decided to post about it. There are constantly threads being started about which (insert category of hot women) you would like to tickle or be tickled by. But, there's not all that much posting about real life experiences...or even reasonable expectations to do so.

My question is twofold...

For those who post these types of threads, do you ever get to enjoy tickling in real life? Or is this fantasy stuff your only outlet? I'm not making any judgment about it, just trying to understand.

For those who do get to enjoy tickling in real life (and I include myself in this), why not post about it more? Again, no judgments. Just wondering.

To answer my own question, as one who does get to enjoy it IRL on a regular basis, I choose not to post about it primarily because I don't feel like being the subject of someone else's fantasy. I don't consider fantasy to be bad, provided it's within reason. A certain amount of fantasy is actually considered to be healthy. It just seems a bit disproportionate to me. But, perhaps it's just the makeup and situations of the group. (I'd say community. But, it no longer feels much like community to me with all the backstabbing and shit throwing I've been seeing of late.)

Ann

Some of my real experiences can't be posted here due to the age of the participants being under 18 (I started when I was 5). Some, because I want to protect the privacy of the other participant, because she has since gotten married, and you never know who knows who that knows who on a group this big.

Then there were two that I did post because the participants were adults and I'm still in contact with them and got their permission, and a couple of jealous idiots started posting that nothing like that could possibly happen in real life, and they got so obnoxious I decided not to post any true experiences any more, and withdrew one of the two I had posted. :mad: Their real objection seemed to be that the experiences were too good to be true, but hell, they weren't all that terriffic, just normal for what I've experienced. :rotate:

The one idiot seemed to be all upset because he either doesn't believe that women can have multiple orgasms, or doesn't believe any man can give a woman multiple orgasms; he wasn't terribly coherent. :( And then some other guys agreed with him. Funny, but from women I've heard nothing but positive comments about any of my stories, true or fictional. :Kiss2:

Hey, back in Victorian times, a lot of guys insisted that women were not physically able to have any climaxes at all. I guess it made a great excuse for guys who couldn't give them one, right? Maybe the same thing working here?
Who knows. I just don't need the hassle and the drama. .:imouttahe The guy who started all the objections even uses a screen name that sounds like he's acknowledging not being very good at giving women pleasure :o

Then, two of my best were with women who were married to someone else at the time, and I've seen what happens to anyone on here who offends the self appointed watchdog guardians of the sanctity of marriage, who mostly seem to lurk on here, but come out from under their rocks to express their holier than thou, self-righteous wrath when someone has had fun committing adultery, and (horrors) not been punished for it in any way. :rant:

Those are some of the reasons why I do not post my true experiences here any more. :devil2:

[isabeau]

i posted about my one and only tickle session and got flamed from here to eternity.. so i learned my lesson.. if ever i get another chance.. no one will know about it.. sorry..

[TklDuo-Ann]

No need to be sorry, Isabeau. Many of us feel the same way. And, as long as the jerks are allowed to spew their crap, I will continue to not post things.

I do agree with Lindy that no large community is going to be all good folks. I'm just sick of the nasty ones being allowed to have free reign. This isn't the first time it's gotten to the point of my considering just walking away. But, it may be the closest I've come to really wanting to do it...without getting all emotional about it like last time. THat's NOT going to win, however. If anyone else feels that way, join me in an effort to help by going here... http://www.ticklingforum.com/showthread.php?t=80238

Anyway, back on topic... Thanks for the responses, folks. That's some of what I'd expected to hear. I'll be offline for the weekend, but will look forward to what else people have to say.

Ann

[tulipangel]

This is like my only outlet for tickling! I dont have a willing Ler! Eh, it sucks but thats life right hehe! Anyway, i might not post on the true story page much but i do read em! makes me feel better knowing there are people out there who get what i want ;)

[TklDuo-Ann]

I remember those days. I feel for ya. It's no fun to want to be tickled senseless and have nobody around to do it!

Ann

[steph]

I'm discreet person by nature and as such, I only really respect other discreet people. The "look at me" crowd, as I call them, just make me roll my eyes. (gags)

I will on occasion post about an experience with a certain guy and use his name, but it is only at his request, because he'd like to meet with other girls and considers my opinion to be a trusted source, which I really appreciate. My public personna is well known by now after a few years of hanging at Club TMF and I've been lucky enough to meet with a lot of the members for private and group play. :D

And I hate what Izzy went thru~I had a great time with the same guy, posted as such and it was for the most part, well received. I just don't get people sometimes. :confused:

XOXO

[toneus79]

Interesting thread with some pertinent points. It does seem that everyone has the exclusive rights on the correct way to enjoy this fetish, including those posting on this thread. However a few points here.

1) I think perhaps a womens only discussion forum may be the solution for anyone worried about being some anonymous guys stroke material. Because to be honest that is an attitude I find both patronising and offensive. In much the same way I find women offensive who dress in a deliberately provocative way, yet then come out with a "how dare you look at me and in my direction" attitude. I would sooner such people participated among themselves, so I could feel safe that I wasn't inadvertently making them feel icky or something.

2) Congratulations to those people who find this fetish an integral part of their lives, and who are able to have their tickles on tap. I would guess however, that this is not the real life experience for most people on here. There is always a fine line therefore, between being able to feel you can share someone elses experience, and in feeling you are having your nose rubbed in it. There is an element among some posters who love to share their experiences to then start condescending other posters with a 'why don't you do the same as me' type attitude, when of course all people and their situations are different. As a for instance a drop dead gorgeous and confident women, can find any number of guys to do any number of things for her: sexual, tickling, fetish, financial, whatever she may require. That option is not open to most women and very few men at all. Thus if such a person is then passing off their experiences and outlook as the standard for everyone else, then it can begin to grate.

3) Fantasy is a large part of this whole fetish, because it is not the norm, and as an interest whatever the experts here say it is statistically rare. Therefore fantasy fills in the gaps and is an outlet for most of us here. For instance there will be many guys (probably gals too) who think: MTP Jeff, Yaqi, TIB, Silver Chubby, French Tickle guy, and all the other video producers are some sort of tickle babe magnet supermen. The reality of course is that all their (this months latest) girls allow themselves to be tickled by them, because they are PAID for their professional (modelling) time, which is ultimately financed by those of us buying the clips.

4) What ultimately is fantasy and what is reality. As a male Lee I periodically PAY female dommes to Tickle me, as in the first instance this is the only way I can satisfy this need as and when, and in the second instance because it is the most uncomplicated way for me to keep this fetish seperate from both my real life and real personality. So is such a session a fantasy (i.e not as valid as someones tickle session with their high school friend, or contact from the TMF) and is it wrong because money changed hands. Well the answer is simple in some peoples eyes yes, in others no, in mine absolutely not and I don't care what you think anyway.

[isabeau]

And I hate what Izzy went thru~I had a great time with the same guy, posted as such and it was for the most part, well received. I just don't get people sometimes. :confused:

XOXO

thanks steph. i appreciate that..for the most part the posts were positive, but a few did have to post negatively, trying to make me feel guilty..

[TklDuo-Ann]

It does seem that everyone has the exclusive rights on the correct way to enjoy this fetish

Agreed. It's taken me some time to accept that there are many ways of enjoying tickling...as many, perhaps, as there are people here. I now accept people where they are at. And, if I am not comfortable with where they are at, I simply don't interact with them. It's then that the issue is mine and not theirs.

I think perhaps a womens only discussion forum may be the solution for anyone worried about being some anonymous guys stroke material. Because to be honest that is an attitude I find both patronising and offensive. In much the same way I find women offensive who dress in a deliberately provocative way, yet then come out with a "how dare you look at me and in my direction" attitude. I would sooner such people participated among themselves, so I could feel safe that I wasn't inadvertently making them feel icky or something.

We tried getting a womens only group going. There were very few takers. So, apparently, it's not enough of an issue for them to seperate themselves. There was also the concern that posers would come in and start stuff. They ARE out there. In fact, I know some personally. They jerk around both guys and gals. They are few. But, they tend to spoil things for people.

As for being patronizing and offensive in not wanting to be stroke material, that's a sad fact of life. When we gals post things, we tend to be inundated with guys PMing us and inviting stuff that we never intended. That's why we're defensive at times. Heck, we don't even need to post. New gal? Instant flood of PMs. The statement isn't aimed at all guys. The vast majority of guys (at least among active posters...not sure about others since I don't know them) are respectful and very cool. We simply choose to not leave ourselves open to the element that ruins things for us.

Peace!
Ann

[natural tickler]

It just seems to me that whenever someone has anything positive to say, you have some folks out to ruin your joy. The key to me is having a circle of people who are your true friends and interact with them privately, because it seems to me out in public, the microscope is on high for someone to find something negative in anything

[toneus79]

When we gals post things, we tend to be inundated with guys PMing us and inviting stuff that we never intended. That's why we're defensive at times. Heck, we don't even need to post. New gal? Instant flood of PMs. The statement isn't aimed at all guys. The vast majority of guys (at least among active posters...not sure about others since I don't know them) are respectful and very cool. We simply choose to not leave ourselves open to the element that ruins things for us.

Peace!
Ann

I appreciate that which is why I have always worked here on two policies.
1) Never go near the chatroom.
2) Never PM anyone who hasn't PMed you first.

Of course there will be an element of "what shoe size are you/where are you most ticklish" guy posters/stalkers, and if I was a woman I would probably get highly pissed off if that was all I ever received. I wouldn't have thought it was that difficult to block their messages. However it is always worth keeping in mind that Tickling for the majority of us is an erotic thing, so it can be a little childish to cry foul if the response is not always as sophisticated and classy as one might like.

[TklDuo-Ann]

Interesting points, toneus. If everyone had enough respect for others to follow the rules you follow, it would be much easier for women to be here. Simply being here shouldn't be an open invite to be treated like sex objects...even if the majority of folks here ARE into it as an erotic thing. I can get into it on that level as well. But, that doesn't mean that I want to do so with anyone who comes along.

AFA blocking PMs...The problem is that, when new folks come in, they havne't necessarily realized that they'll want to do so. And, if they block PMs completely, they can't receive them from those they actually want to hear from. I don't think making and posting a hit list would be appropriate either. That suggests that people are incapable of changing their ways, which isn't the case for most. Blocking individual posters can only occur once you've found that they're a problem. So, it still leaves them open to stuff they may not want. There really isn't an easy solution...as with many things in life.

I don't know that anyone is being childish in bringing it up, though that's probably there a bit at times. I think it's the frustration of not knowing how to most effectively deal with things. Putting something in one's signature or profile seems to invite more rather than less of what we don't want. So, that's not an effective option.

The bottom line seems to be to show others the respect we'd like for ourselves. But, that seems to be difficult for people to do online for some reason. We seem to be able to honor other people's boundaries when it comes to real life interactions. For some reason, that doesn't seem to carry over online. Maybe it's the inherent annonymity of the internet. I'm not sure. Hell. Maybe it's the fact that they can bop us in the nose when we step out of line in person. lol

Anyway, back on track here... The reason for this thread was mainly to feel things out and see where folks were at with things. I can better decide on how to work things on the site when I know where folks are at and what they're looking for. I also wanted to give anyone who wished to do so a chance to speak up about this topic.

Ann

[lk70]

For those who do get to enjoy tickling in real life (and I include myself in this), why not post about it more? Again, no judgments. Just wondering.



It seems the more I get to experience it in real life, the less I feel the need to post about it. Partially this is due to wanting to avoid some of the less than savory PMs, but that's not really a big deal and not all that common anyway. Mostly I think it's something else. When I first registered and started posting, there was no tickling in my life at all. I made some life decisions and then got out there. I've met some great people, made some terrific and I hope life-long friends, had a heartbreak and recovered, and am now testing the waters again (with a non TMF member!! who wants to email him for me and explain all this???? :D). I guess it seems to me now that I don't have as much interesting stuff to say vis a vis stories and whatnot. :cool:

[MrPartickler]

For those who post these types of threads, do you ever get to enjoy tickling in real life? Or is this fantasy stuff your only outlet? I'm not making any judgment about it, just trying to understand.I personally prefer the r/l tickling stories to the fantasy ones. (Many thanks to the mods for the addition of the "True Tickling Stories" subforum.) However, I understand the reason there are so many fantasy threads of the kind you describe. It's just a consequence of the demographics. You combine a bunch of hetero males together to discuss sexual/fetish related topics and what you get is a lot of "locker room talk." And, at times, that can be boisterous, crude, candid, (unintentionally) offensive, etc. In this case, tickling some hot woman celeb/entertainer is something most hetero women probably don't care to see here every two minutes. Despite that, I have to believe that if this was a forum with ten women posters to every male one, there'd be a TON of threads discussing things most guys just couldn't relate to in the slightest--and, true to form, I have no clue what those things could be! :jester:

I'll go on to say that, the fantasy-posting flood is probably exacerbated by the fact that (probably) most guys here <i>don't</i> have much r/l tickling going on in any consistent manner. So fantasy discussions "fill the void" so-to-speak. After all, if you're going to dream, why not dream big? lol

For those who do get to enjoy tickling in real life (and I include myself in this), why not post about it more? Again, no judgments. Just wondering.Short answer: I'm lazy. lol I've posted only one in any detail and, to be honest, I dunno when I'll get around to posting any more. Also, there's a limited number of r/l experiences that can be posted about (mine are certainly limited and unpredictable), but fantasies are virtualy limitless. So any poster so-inclinded to discuss fantasies can discuss many, many more of those even if they also post their r/l ones.

[Mark Diplock]

A few people read and replied to my thread. I had a bit of an urge to tickle someones foot and seized the moment. it was pure reflex. I'm still seeing her if anyone was wondering about what happened after. Lucky me i guess :ignite:

[isabeau]

A few people read and replied to my thread. I had a bit of an urge to tickle someones foot and seized the moment. it was pure reflex. I'm still seeing her if anyone was wondering about what happened after. Lucky me i guess :ignite:

well that's terrific.. glad it worked out for you and good luck

[BLUE_THUNDER]

while i have had many real life tickling experiences, although none recently, you always have to be a bit careful about anything you say in a forum this big. while im a newbie here, i have found most people to be very respectful and honest. but as with any large forum that discusses this stuff, there will be jerks, and people that send tons of ridiculous PM's that border on harassment, just so they can fantasize about other members here. but because of people like isabeau and mimi and others that are totally cool and tell it like it is, i truly enjoy this place. peace......BLUE_THUNDER


check me out on myspace!


www.myspace.com/bullitt_mustang

[WhispersntheFog]

I've lived most of my fetish life through fantasy :rant: , but recently have had some good real life expierienceswith tickling :jester: . Fantasy is a good way to escape into the tickling world :Kiss1: for those who have no-none, as I do right now :idontwann , but can lead to pain and trials. If your alone and fantasize to much you'll be come :scared: delusional :scared: although that not that its a bad thing, but soon it will seperate you from yourself and thats not good. But either way keeep dreaming. Most tickling :poke3: would not be here today if it wren't for dreams.

[50greg]

My tickling outlets are basically TMF and fantasy. Having said that, I don't post fantasy stories here for reasons of physical endurance. :) Any ladies who want a more direct explanation should feel free to PM me.

[Wolf]

: Dusting off the ol' soapbox for another episode of "Wolf Holds Forth" :

In my opinion, the biggest problems in communication and correspondence on this site are based on a simple fact. This is a fetish community. The men, women, and men who pretend to be women who come here do so because they have, or at least profess to have, an interest in tickling. For most of us, the conversations we have here, we could not have in our normal day-to-day lives. Well, maybe a few times, but after a certain number, people would start to suspect, wouldn't they? As someone who's undeservedly blessed with a number of willing and enthusiatic partners (including my mate for life), I have plenty of r/l experiences; I don't normally choose to share them for two reasons. First, I wouldn't want to betray someone's confidence, because who knows who what people are looking at online, right? And, second, I haven't just been lucky, I've been inordinately lucky, and some of the experiences would sound too much like fiction. I personally loathe made-up stories presented as real life, so I don't bother.
The very nature of an online fetish community fosters "specialization". Feet ticklers can find others who only wish to discuss that, upperbody ticklers (like myself) can find others of like mind, etc. The problems occur when we get so deep into our own things that we forget other people (and especially other genders, fellas!) can have different feelings about a common interest, and even get indignant, or, Goddess forbid, emotionally wounded, because someone is more into playing "Cowboys and Native Americans (PC, you know)" rather than "Cops and Legally Challenged".

:Shuffling off to the Den, cracking open a Guinness, firing up an Onyx Reserve Robusto, and settling into my the pose my wife likes to call, "Smug Furry Bastard" :

Wolf.

(I'm not around here enough to have one of those wicked-cool picture sigs)

[TklDuo-Ann]

LOL Smug furry bastard, eh Wolfie? Good to see you posting. It's been a while. Not that I've been very active of late with life's craziness.

I neglected to check back in on this thread after being away. So, I'd like to point out a couple things to clear up any misunderstandings about the motive of this thread...in case there are any out there. I tried to make clear in the initial post that this is not something that I'm making any judgments on. I wouldn't have a right to do so anyway. I don't see fantasy as being a negative thing. I was just curious about where people were coming from in what they chose to post...or not post. Perhaps a bit of a story on my part will help clear up where I'm coming from.

In the early days of my realizing that I had a "thing" for tickling (I won't get into terms for it since folks tend to debate that as well.), nearly everything was fantasy based. If I liked someone...not necessarily on a romantic level...I would tend to fantasize about having tickle fun with them. I had plenty of innocent playful real life fun with relatives and friends. But, the fantasy tended to be more fun for me at times....mainly because it went beyond what my real life experiences were. It didn't cross into anything sexual since that happens to not be my interest in it. But, it did go beyond the simple playful tickle fights to more intense sessions.

Over time, I wanted those fantasies more and more. They never disappointed me. I always got as much tickling as I wanted...because I controlled the fantasy. Even when I was dating a guy who was into tickling, I prefered the fantasy. I was always less than impressed with the ability of real life situations to fulfill the intensity I was looking for. So, rather than be disappointed, I often stuck with the fantasy. It became more enjoyable, more important, more everything.

Then, Drew came along. Here was someone as into it as I was. Here was someone with whom I could dare to share my deepest tickling desires. And, you know what? Real life is better after all! I'll still play around with online fun and fantasy a bit at times. But, it doesn't equal what I have in reality.

Why am I sharing this? Well, I guess it's to encourage those for whom fantasy is still most or all of what you have to enjoy. If, like I was, you're hesitant to give real life experiences a chance, I'd encourage you to take that step. Hey! If it doesn't work out the way you want, the fantasy is still there. If it DOES turn out the way you want, you've just taken a big step to having even more fun with your love of tickling.

For those who may be thinking, "Yeah. But you're a girl. It's easy for you." keep in mind that Drew contacted ME, not the other way around. There ARE other women out there who love tickling as much as we do. They may even be lurking around here watching for the right guy to show himself. If you make yourself known for who you are, you might be pleasantly surprised.

OK, now I'm starting to ramble. So, I'll shut up. I just wanted to lend a bit of encouragement to this thread to get it back on the intended track.

Ann

[BLUE_THUNDER]

ann hit it right on target, if you dont put yourself out there your chances of anything "real" are pretty much nil. once you've been shot down a couple times its not that big a deal anyhow. but if you want reality over fantasy, you have to try. peace.........BLUE_THUNDER




check me out on myspace!

www.myspace.com/bullitt_mustang

[Strider]

I've posted a couple things, and if one of the people I've played with here makes a reference to something, I'll usually make one back; but in general, I don't share things unless prompted.

[luv2tcklprklyua]

I am a newbie here, so remember as you go through this, that I have no reference point from whence this forum came. At the point in time that I entered the forum, about a week or so ago, give or take, this is normalcy from my perspective so far. But perhaps some might benifit from these comments, at the very least, they can provide another angle on the subject. Believing that we can rid ourselves of the "garbage" ( and I have observed much even in such a short time on the forum) this kind of site invites?....now there is a real "fantasy". Consider this with me for a moment,..."The Garden", in the beginning, the absolute most "perfect" place, where the least amount of negativity had opportunity to enter, and where the very least amount of influence (only three parties involved then: God, man, and woman) on the interaction existed....still, "smut" found a way in to ruin the environment. If smut cannot be exile from the level of even the most perfect environment, we will not be rid of it here either, (especially here in this environment with the content we're dealing with...IMHO). Now, I'm not of a fatalist perspective, throwing my hands in the air saying, "...oh well, if we can't reach our goal, what is the point in trying",...I am NOT saying that at all, let me make that clear! As long as we keep shooting at a high target, (....we keep striving for improvement, and I purposely use the word "striving" as opposed to "trying" because I think striving has a stronger connotation about not giving up,...just throwing that little bit of perspective in the mix for free) we can acheive a higher standard, coming closer and closer to the bullseye!
In essence, we can repair old walls, even build new ones, change the boundaries, (...yes, these are things we can control), but, we cannot control the one thing that I see, as the root of the problem,....ones personal choice to "demonstrate" unshakable prudence in good judgement and impeccable integrity in the choices they make. A good paralell to consider to illusrate what I'm saying is the world of technology. Despite all the safegaurds, firewalls, and whatever's (can you tell I'm not a "tech-ie?) to ensure a good safe, and clean environment for users to enjoy, "hackers" still find ways to get through all of that to ruin the enviroment for everyone because of their relentless and incessant desire to be that "bad seed" (....and it stems from their personal choice, purposing to be that way). The harsh "reality" is that we can't dig deep enough to extract the root of the problem, but we can keep striving against such, as valiant warriors do!!! Hey Wolf, you don't mind that I borrowed your soap-box a minite or two do 'ya?

Be encouraged!

Jef