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Wheres All The Real Tickle Torture?

I have a suggestion for you

Another dilema that I face and am sure all the other producers too is that we don't know what kind of a girl is coming. They all say they are ticklish, and they are, but there are all kind of ticklish levels from the ones that laughs, the ones that scream, or the ones that resist, and giggle inwards. And is the tickler's job to figure out how to exploit her type of ticklishness.

And I have 2 great examples, Emily vs Alexis Capri. Emily is the type that is very ticklish but in the sentive and sensual area. Watch closely and you will see her going out of breath while fingers or feathers slide through her skin.

On the other hand Alexis Capri is the explosive type, which I agree is the most popular kind of ticklee.

Now some of the ticklees that have gone through my camera has said many times that there a lot of producers that think they are great tickles but they don't realize that the girl is sceaming and jumping IN PAIN BECAUSE HE IS STABBING HER WITH HIS FINGERS AND NOT TICKLING HER.

That is not tickling. Thats almost like beating someone up. One of this girls showed me that bruses that she still had on her ribs after being literally tortured by some producer in a tickling shoot but he never got even close to acutally tickle her he just hurt her with his fingers.

In my shootings I have a rule that I am looking for to hear "Haha, hihi, hehe, hoho, etc" but I don't want to hear "auch". When I hear "auch", I stop because that means that that didnt tickle it just hurt.

To the guy that started this thread, I am still worried about what kind of a man asks for this kind of stuff with so much insistense. But I have a suggestion for you:

Get out of your house, and intercept that beautiful woman that lives next door, throw her to the floor with no warning, pin her down, sit on her legs and start tickling her (not stabbing her with your fingers, TICKLING!!!) until she cries... if her husband hasn't come out and hit you in the face... when she faint or pee on her self let her know that you were taping the whole damm thing and are planning to sale in on the internet.

This is what I understoof from you original post that you wanted to see on a video. If you can pull this one off without ending sued or in jail for asaulting a woman, come back and let us know.
 
Am I going to have to start producing vids on my own after working a 12 hour day every day?

Yes, I think you will. I did :devil2: . Most producers start out with a full time job on top of their video ambitions.

A friend asked me to comment on this thread, as a 'lee and as a producer. Frankly, and this may surprise a few folks, I honestly don't have a problem with what Todd would like to see so long as the 'lee did indeed know what she was getting into. I'm a spanking enthusiast as well as a ticklephile, and some of my favorite spanking vids have a 'naughty' young lady spanked to tears and actually a little past that point. Hell, I've done it myself. As long as the spankee knew what was going to happen and agreed I'm happy to enjoy the scenario, which feeds some of my deeper fantasies :cool2:

Now having said that, I think that Todd and a few other folks with this desire should start their own company (ies). I'm completely serious. When you want to see something and you can't find it, and no one else seems to have it but you *know* there's a market, ya gotta go for it yourself. Jeff did. TIB did. I did. Each of us saw a different need and filled it, for which our individual fans are very grateful. For various reasons we apparently don't make the kind of video Todd and others crave, at least not consistently, so it's time for him or someone like him to show us what he's talking about and make a profit at the same time. And I don't mean this in an annoying "put up or shut up" kinda way, I truly think that those who are seriously into something can film it the best :smilestar Personally, I never make a video that I wouldn't want to sit and watch myself, and true tickle torture doesn't float my boat; I prefer good banter mixed with some fun sensuality, so that's what I film (I get a lot of compliments on the dialogue in my clips :triangle: ).

Do what you love and the money (and fans) will follow,

Bella
 
Now that's of value.

Capnmad said:
..And if you didn't notice, she wasn't critiquing the person, but the idea, and offered clarification on what she deemed okay and not (and her values are shared by many, I believe), and was concerned, once again, about those who would be exploited. This is a good place to stand, even if she were in err, which I don't believe her to be significantly in this case. She's speaking legitimate concerns, detailing what is lawful and unlawful, ethical and unethical. But you're provoking, now, so she'll probably get angry and defend herself. Funny -- most people do that when attacked.

And the "observer" thing at NEST last year -- her choice. And I, for one, thought it was wholly appropriate given her reservations on a first-time visit, honest and charming. And I was there.

Hey Capn,

Though I didn't quote the entire post, it was all much appreciated, *especially from you,
and then, doubly now when your time is so much more valuable.

You're definitely one of the reasons I'm very glad I attended NEST last year, and are among the people I'll miss greatly this month (though I'm sure I'll see you soon again anyway).

Can you spell Zen?

Thanks as always for being such a rare Inspiration & a Gentleman. :happyfloa
 
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No, must agree, no "ouches..."

skelyrata said:
Now some of the ticklees that have gone through my camera has said many times that there a lot of producers that think they are great tickles but they don't realize that the girl is sceaming and jumping IN PAIN BECAUSE HE IS STABBING HER WITH HIS FINGERS AND NOT TICKLING HER.

That is not tickling. Thats almost like beating someone up. One of this girls showed me that bruses that she still had on her ribs after being literally tortured by some producer in a tickling shoot but he never got even close to acutally tickle her he just hurt her with his fingers.
That's another great point, among your other stated concerns. I'm sure we've all been mauled by that sort before... Bad enough tickling can be unendurable (painful) in the wrong circumstances, add this and it's even more excrutiating...

You & Bella must be phenomenal producers. With the appreciation for the fantasy, and a real concern for the individual.
 
I need a cam...

llllllll said:
I agree completely that most of the videos being made are crap, even insulting to our intelligence. There is some exceptions though, if you search long enough. Since everybody seems to be venting though, here's my pet peeve. When someone tickles a woman's feet, and there is no corresponding reaction of movement. When a tickler is furiously scrabbling fingernails over somebodys foot, and the foot just stays motionless, or barely moves from side to side, what the hell is that? I don't need hysterical laughter, or even slight giggling for proof of someone's ticklishness. I know from experience with my ex-girlfriend that if you tickle someone in a bad mood, they're not always going to laugh. But for Christ' sake, tickling evokes reaction. I'm tired of seeing "tickling" videos where the tickler is going to town on a gorgeous set of soles, and the ticklee just sits there with little or no reaction. The fake laughter I can deal with, but holy shit, let's tell the models to scrunch toes, spread toes, wiggle around a bit, move your damn feet and pretend like you're trying to get away! Anyway, I know....wrong place for a posting, but I felt like getting that off my chest. Although, we are all bitching about videos, we all have to admit that this goofy fetish has come a long way.

Dan

Tickle and foot lovers;

If you all want to see sincere toe spreading, a bouncing midsection, and a combination of moans and laughter, I need to film myself being tickled... tickle my sides and my toes spread as i curl them back; tickle my feet and my toes spread as I thrust my pu**y toward my LER... (this is my #1 arousal spot). I wonder how anyone could fake this?

I think I like being insanely ticklish... but need a new LER...

Does anyone disagree?

Tara
 
TaraToes25 said:
Tickle and foot lovers;

If you all want to see sincere toe spreading, a bouncing midsection, and a combination of moans and laughter, I need to film myself being tickled... tickle my sides and my toes spread as i curl them back; tickle my feet and my toes spread as I thrust my pu**y toward my LER... (this is my #1 arousal spot). I wonder how anyone could fake this?

I think I like being insanely ticklish... but need a new LER...

Does anyone disagree?

Tara

You've got to come to NEST this weekend. Mods-- Can we make room for/ and an exception for Tara? And her roommate?

btw Tara can you get this done? I am sure droves of us would volunteer to video you and/or tickle you!! Myself included! I'll go buy some video equipment!!
 
I would like to see women tickled to tears. That might make me sick or nasty but that's me right or wrong. I doubt anything you see in these videos is non consensual these women are being paid and laugh all the way to the bank. If they know what their getting into and it's legal then I see no problem with it. If the women were giving false information or were grabed off the street well that's a problem.
 
All it takes is a good imagination to really tickle torture someone, and a basic understanding of ticklish spots. U guys want to see real torture someone find me a rack and a cute little ticklee and Ill put her through hell. Just needs to be someone who can take it. Lol dont look at me like that, im not bragging, I can be reeeeeeal evil :firedevil
 
I'd just like to see...

...more ethnic diversity. I know it's not always the companies fault. If you located in a place like Boston it's probably harder to find a black model, but if your out in California or in NY it should be easier to find black, Asian, or Lartina's. Then there is the fact that it may be harder to find these women and have them be willing to do the job as well. To you in the biz I wish you luck.
 
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Likewise, that's kind of you, Sam

Thanks Sam :wavingguy
Likewise, you're a sweetie :twohugs:
Good to see you're back!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Will note, I just hope the important point gets across here, aside from the (distractions...)

Many of us enjoy some non-consensual fantasy to varying degrees
and *however extreme a fantasy is, I wouldn't fault anyone for it
as long as the utmost care & consideration is shown in reality ---

but (OBVIOUSLY) nobody should actually be tricked, held or tied down, assaulted, tortured, & traumatized for a lousy video,
and/or for some jerk's direct sadistic, criminal pleasure.

Anything of that nature should be reported immediately to the police :bat:
whether in person
or on video.

Aggressive cowards, bullies, criminals
have no business touching anyone, and esp. the unwilling... :Grrr:
 
Babbles, you're right on point as usual!

To the original OP

I'm one of those who was tickle tortured as a child; I didn't find it funny or acceptable. I associated it with violation and borderline rape; someone got their rocks off at my expense and it's why I prefer being the ler. Being the ler meant I didn't get hurt. If you think non consentual torture is fun and something to get off on, that's your business. I think it's a total violation and humilation and will NEVER let it happen to me again ever!!

Do you have a mother, sisters, or female family members? This could easily happen to them. Would you like to see it on a video because they fell on financial hard times and made a less than desireable juidgement call? How would you like it then?

And Azrel (or whatever your name is) attacking Babbles for what she believes in just because you disagree with it is irresponsible and immature. Then again, you seem to have a talent for that per your post in the P&R thread. You might think it's controversial, but it's offesnive to more than you benefit.

Where is the real tickle torture? In your mind where it belongs!!! :Grrr:
 
I think the real problem is one we all don't want to admit to. The problem I speak of is that the type of girls that we really want to see tickled HATE BEING TICKLED. I can only think of a few girls out of the tons of girls that I met that actualy enjoy tickling. We love to read and write stories of non-consensual, and create clips that imitate it with half ticklish models, and bad acting. I agree with a previous post that at least this guy tries, as most producers do. But what are they trying to do really? Honestly, I may seem like an ass but I think they are more interested in making money then they are in putting out really good tickling material. I dont think they would care if their least ticklish models brought them more money because the models are ridiculously good looking. Quite frankly I wouldn't blame them. Its all about business to some. So what do we do? Notice the "we" in that sentence. I could count on one hand how many really awesome experiences I had with tickling a girl/girls. Thats the rub though; they were MY experiences. I think the problem that a lot of us have, and even me is that we make no effort to find and enjoy these experiences, and rather rely on producers, and photographers to provide us with setups to fool our eyes into thinking their real. So whats going to make a really ticklish girl want to do a video where she is really tortured. $$$$$$$Im not sure, but$$$$$I think they are going to need a better incentive$$$$$$$$$$$ then a hundred bucks for a five minute clip. If some of these producers are paying more it doesn't nessecarily mean that they are getting really good victims as much as it means they are getting really marketable girls. I think we should all start pursuing how to get real tickling situations, and tape them and then share them with eachother for free, or for a very small charge just for the hassle. The only problem with hiring a girl to be tickled is that it gives her mind a chance to prepare for it, and we all know that a girls mentality will make a difference in sensations. Their is got to be a way to get some good half consensual torture out of a really ticklish girl. But I cant do it alone so who is willing to brainstorm with me?
 
I'm another one of you!


But I guess that nobady can stand 60 minutes of tickling torture, can they?
 
911 said:
I would like to see women tickled to tears. That might make me sick or nasty but that's me right or wrong. I doubt anything you see in these videos is non consensual these women are being paid and laugh all the way to the bank. If they know what their getting into and it's legal then I see no problem with it. If the women were giving false information or were grabed off the street well that's a problem.

Smartest thing I heard said here since the initial post.

I just wandered back onto this thread after ignoring for a bit, and holy shit, alot of people are seeing criminal intent where there is none. Every other person's initial response was either "Non-consensual tickling is horrible and anyone who likes that is sick" or "How would you like it if that was your girlfriend being tickled against her will" or "Why don't you check the laws against assault and battery". What the hell? Todd wasn't looking for a rape scene to be caught on film, just a "real tickle torture" video. You know, intense tickle torture with crying, hysterical pleading, maybe the girl wets herself if that's what you're into. Maybe the ler has a menacing aura about him (such as the creepy mask in the new Skelyrata video "Agent Emily", or just a general imposing presence), maybe he says a few degrading insults to her (like in all the other S/M videos out there), so on and so forth. You know, non-con FANTASY. But not ACTUAL non-con tickling. I figured this was implied, but apparently it wasn't. No, you know what? It was. It was pretty obvious that Todd wasn't looking for an ACTUAL non-con video. This is just another case of people hearing what they wanted to hear.

If he wanted an ACTUAL non-con video (rather than a non-con FANTASY), then my earlier initial response would have been more akin to "What are you? Some sort of rapist? Get outta here, you sick fuck!!!" instead of "Amen!".

So seriously, alot of people have to chill out. Read the post before you reply to it. And no, whatever insidious act you think this or that person is implying that he/she wants to see, no they're not. No one is. You're the only one around thinking about it. Just you.

God freakin' damn...
 
I agree alter, You really and truly have to create your own experiences. That's what the "True tickling stories" is for in this forum. It seems like only half of us have true tickling stories to share. Don't get me wrong I like the videos too, but I would rather do my own tickling. :)
 
skelyrata said:
As a producer I think that is unfair just to make this a ticklee issue, or a bad producer issue.

This is not a matter of finding a model willing to be tickle torture until she pass out or how much she gets paid. This is also a question of what kind of a producer will do that kind of video.

Because we are talking about a person that has the bad nerves to cuse harm and pain to a woman without compasion. Does this sounds like a phsyco?

Obviously you are looking for a very sick person, close to be criminaly insane with no mercy in his heart, or with so much hatred inside his soul that he can tortue a women without feeling bad for her. This also drives me a question of the kind of people that are so desperate to see this kind of videos.

Sorry, but as a producer, I have to say that I don't have the "heart" to do that kind of stuff to a woman.

When I am doing a tickling video, I want to make sure that the girl is having as much fun as I am. I don't want this to be just a one side thing. One thing is to tickle her for fun... another thing is to tickle her to hurt her.

That why is called a roleplaing game... enfasis is game... and to play a game all parts must be having fun.


I see your point and I really share your opinion!

Don't forget that models are persons!
 
jkb said:
Smartest thing I heard said here since the initial post.

I just wandered back onto this thread after ignoring for a bit, and holy shit, alot of people are seeing criminal intent where there is none. Every other person's initial response was either "Non-consensual tickling is horrible and anyone who likes that is sick" or "How would you like it if that was your girlfriend being tickled against her will" or "Why don't you check the laws against assault and battery". What the hell? Todd wasn't looking for a rape scene to be caught on film, just a "real tickle torture" video. You know, intense tickle torture with crying, hysterical pleading, maybe the girl wets herself if that's what you're into. Maybe the ler has a menacing aura about him (such as the creepy mask in the new Skelyrata video "Agent Emily", or just a general imposing presence), maybe he says a few degrading insults to her (like in all the other S/M videos out there), so on and so forth. You know, non-con FANTASY. But not ACTUAL non-con tickling. I figured this was implied, but apparently it wasn't. No, you know what? It was. It was pretty obvious that Todd wasn't looking for an ACTUAL non-con video. This is just another case of people hearing what they wanted to hear.

If he wanted an ACTUAL non-con video (rather than a non-con FANTASY), then my earlier initial response would have been more akin to "What are you? Some sort of rapist? Get outta here, you sick fuck!!!" instead of "Amen!".

So seriously, alot of people have to chill out. Read the post before you reply to it. And no, whatever insidious act you think this or that person is implying that he/she wants to see, no they're not. No one is. You're the only one around thinking about it. Just you.

God freakin' damn...


Thank you. My wisdom is often unnoticed. :wavingguy
 
jkb said:
Smartest thing I heard said here since the initial post.

I just wandered back onto this thread after ignoring for a bit, and holy shit, alot of people are seeing criminal intent where there is none. Every other person's initial response was either "Non-consensual tickling is horrible and anyone who likes that is sick" or "How would you like it if that was your girlfriend being tickled against her will" or "Why don't you check the laws against assault and battery". What the hell? Todd wasn't looking for a rape scene to be caught on film, just a "real tickle torture" video. You know, intense tickle torture with crying, hysterical pleading, maybe the girl wets herself if that's what you're into. Maybe the ler has a menacing aura about him (such as the creepy mask in the new Skelyrata video "Agent Emily", or just a general imposing presence), maybe he says a few degrading insults to her (like in all the other S/M videos out there), so on and so forth. You know, non-con FANTASY. But not ACTUAL non-con tickling. I figured this was implied, but apparently it wasn't. No, you know what? It was. It was pretty obvious that Todd wasn't looking for an ACTUAL non-con video. This is just another case of people hearing what they wanted to hear.

If he wanted an ACTUAL non-con video (rather than a non-con FANTASY), then my earlier initial response would have been more akin to "What are you? Some sort of rapist? Get outta here, you sick fuck!!!" instead of "Amen!".

So seriously, alot of people have to chill out. Read the post before you reply to it. And no, whatever insidious act you think this or that person is implying that he/she wants to see, no they're not. No one is. You're the only one around thinking about it. Just you.

God freakin' damn...

If you read the OP, you'd see he actually describes non-con events, not consentual at all. He wants to see a person who's ticklish get tickled without consent mercilessly. That's what's described and I don't see why you can say otherwise. That's why I got offended in the first place; if anyone's had a public non-consentual tickling experience it is a humiliating and degrading exercise in domination and control. That's why people do it that way; they're not considering their victim's feelings at all! They're just having their fun at the victim's expense. There's no ler/lee relationship, no negotiation about what is to happen during said scene. It's just someone taking advantage of another to their own detriment.

How you can even post this at all is beyond me; most of the men who have posted to this thread admittled wanting to see merciless tickle torture-no woman I know of will consent to such. The only way you're going to get true tickle torture is without the lee's consent; just how many women are going to give that willingly? Not many! It's a domination/control fantasy that should stay just that way and not be carried out in real life. That's enough for a good lee to retire before she ever gets started, IMO.

Now you go back and read the OP because if you see anything differently, we're simply not on the same page or you're in denial.
 
Todd Tickles said:
Sheesh, I think there's been about zero video's produced where there's any sort of tickle torture in the true sense of the words. Remember when you were a kid and saw the neighborhood cutie, held down and tickled to the point of craziness? Or when you and your siblings used to hold down your most ticklish sister and make her absolutely freak out and cry because she'd be laughing and begging so hard? You know... "REAL" tickle torture!?

Examples of these kinds of moments are in movies like "the tickle slaves line "Miranda" or the upper body tickling parts of "realtickling" TC5042. There are a few other examples, but let's get real, 1% of all the tickling videos on the market actually have this kind of "REAL" tickling and pure tickle hell.

Many of you enjoy light tickling, or half assed laughter, and thats fine. But theres a lot of us who really enjoy seeing a girl tied tight and helpless, and completely freaking out because they are so ticklish. We like to see a girl actually LAUGHING INSANELY, as opposed to "kinda laughing/kinda faking because they want their paycheck.

What's the deal with that? Can't anyone consistantly come up with some stuff that "TRUE TICKLE TORTURE?" This is obviously my OPINION. It's not FACT, because I know many of you disagree and think theres some really good stuff out there. I happen to disagree. I'm into serious tickle torture, where the victom is hyper ticklish and LAUGHS uncontrollably, not "fake screams and wiggles her way through 60 minutes of lame tickling.

If anyone notices any clips, or knows of any vids or clips like I'm discribing, can you PM me please? Or post the titles in this thread? Im so sick of all the lame-average tickle vids out there. Let's get some meat on the bone! Am I going to have to start producing vids on my own after working a 12 hour day every day? I don't think so. Let the flaming begin...

Here are portions of the OP (just for those who didn't read). He wants a victim, not a lee. He describes incidents of non-consentual torture and domination/control of said victim. The reason why he hasn't found what he wants is because no woman is going to do it even for money! He even says "serious tickle torture" in his post. so tell me where anyone got his intentions wrong?

There's nothing wrong with this in fiction and fantasy, but unless she consents to being broken and reduced to a heap of laughing flesh, it's not going to happen, plain and simple.
 
Redmage said:
Yes - if and only if the target market is big enough. Insex worked because even though only a part of the SM market likes things that intense, the SM market itself is big enough that a slice of it like that could still buy enough memberships to make Insex a profitable site.

I don't think that's the case here. The tickling scene is a small part of BDSM to begin with, and those who like this particular sort of play are another small fraction of that. I don't think the market could sustain a producer who went that route.

In fact, the best chance for a video like this is probably from a high intensity BDSM site like kink.com. They're big enough that they could make a profit off it and secure enough to take a chance on something like that.

Redmage, in your opinion, what sort of dollars would be necessary to create the sort of production that participants in this thread seem to crave?
 
What a fascinating thread....

You know, i think people are taking the original poster's comments and interpreting them in their own way. His comments can go either way. He's looking for an illegal act or he is looking for fantasy. If you carefully read his words, he is looking for fantasy.

Just read what he is saying. He blasts video porducers for producing videos that have "light tickling or half assed laughter". He is looking for a TRUE ticklish person. The type that will curse all night long if you tickle them. I am sure some of us have known people in our lives where if you just poke them, they are in a massive fit of giggles and go into uncontrollable laughter. He wants THOSE types of models.

The actions he described such as the neighborhood bullies tickling some victim is an example of the type of tickling "sensitivity" he wants to see. Not necessarily the real act of nonconsentual, but the reaction itself to tickling. I think him using the word "torture" is where his point gets lost. I mean really, he points out 2 videos where he finds exactly what he is looking for and neither video is "illegal". Again, he is looking for REAL laughter, not the fake laughter he has been seeing.

I dont think anyone here would actually say they want to see an illegal act on video. If so, then they know they are going to be villified. Todd Tickles is not looking for illegal acts, he is looking for TRUE ticklish models, not the ones that are just interested in a paycheck. Go back and read his words about what he hates to see in videos. Then you should get what he is trying to say.
 
MikeMike said:
Redmage, in your opinion, what sort of dollars would be necessary to create the sort of production that participants in this thread seem to crave?
If we start with the rates of high-end SM sites like Insex and Hogtied, those companies pay (or paid, in the case of Insex) somewhere around $800-$1500 for a standard shoot lasting 3-4 hours. For comparison purposes, I believe most tickling sites pay in the range of $150-400 for their models. So figure a tickling tape like the ones we're discussing would have to make back at least $1000 or so just to cover the costs for the model. There are usually several hours worth of additional work for the producer in getting a video ready for sale, so he or she will want to get a fair return on that as well (since that's the money that he or she actually gets to live on).

And you also have to figure in duplication and distribution costs as well. For example a site like clips4sale.com (through which a lot of producers sell their clips) often takes as much as 40-50% of each sale! That money is gone off the top, before it even gets to the producer. There's also the costs of video equipment and so on.

Now I'm just guessing, but I think that even the most popular tickling tapes (those with the broadest mass appeal) seldom sell more than a few hundred copies. The tickling market is small, as I said. For a specialty item like this the market will be much smaller. I don't have any real idea how small, but suppose maybe 10% to 20% of tickling fans would be interested in this sort of material. In that case you'd expect at most 20% of the usual sales (probably less, since it'll cost more and that'll drive sales down).

Suppose a popular regular video sells 300 copies at $30 apiece over the course of a year or so. That's $9000 in total sales, of which the producer gets to pocket maybe $3000-4000. A tape like the ones we've been discussing will have to make at least that much for the producer, or why should they bother with it? But it costs more to make, so figure they'll need around $10,000 in sales to make it an attractive proposition. If you figure that such a tape is likely to sell maybe 60 copies, then you're looking at a sale price of almost $170 per tape. That's more than 5 times the price of a regular tickling vid.

There's a lot of semi-educated guesswork in this, but at least it gives some idea of the factors that affect pricing and profitability in a project like this. The bottom line is that whenever a producer is considering some Project A, he has to be confident that it will put at least as much money in his personal pocket as some other Project B would. If he can't be reasonably sure of that, then there's just no percentage for him in Project A. Factors like costs and ultimately how well it will sell are what decides such questions.

Those who want such videos need to convince producers that they're at least as profitable as the videos they're making and selling already. Any producer who can be confident of that will be happy to meet that demand.
 
Just a clarification

primetime said:
Again, he is looking for REAL laughter, not the fake laughter he has been seeing.

I just want to make something very clear here and now... at least in my videos all laughs and giggle are real... in fact thats the first thing I request my models, no faking, if is not real I don't want it. Even the dialogues are spontaneous and not scripted (except when it is obviously acting as in Agent Emily).

And maybe thats part of the problem here, because I know there are producers out there in which everything is "make believe", the tickler is not even touching the ticklee and she is acting her laughs dramaticlly. I don't know maybe this is the kind of videos people are used to see and when they are faced with a real tickling scenario then they are disapointed.

Is kind of like the difference between a hardcore XXX sex scene and a real couple intimate sex scene. There are no four minutes eyaculation and all that stuff in real life.

The same way I can say that is very difficult to achive the kind of results that this guy wants in real tickling. I mean it can happen, and I have only a few clips out there in which the tickling reach that point (one of this clips am not sure if the tears really was the result of the tickling or faked since they cut from tickling to the tear and didn't see the process of her face going read starting to cry. Yeah, I studied production and know how to detect these tricks.)

Of course, I don't want to generalize and I know that there are a lot other producers that make the real thing... o mix real with fiction...

Am not saying that is right or wrong... after all we are talking about fantasies and everybody uses their skill and imagination to deliver that dream the best way possible.
 
kis123 said:
If you read the OP, you'd see he actually describes non-con events, not consentual at all. He wants to see a person who's ticklish get tickled without consent mercilessly. That's what's described and I don't see why you can say otherwise. That's why I got offended in the first place; if anyone's had a public non-consentual tickling experience it is a humiliating and degrading exercise in domination and control. That's why people do it that way; they're not considering their victim's feelings at all! They're just having their fun at the victim's expense. There's no ler/lee relationship, no negotiation about what is to happen during said scene. It's just someone taking advantage of another to their own detriment.

How you can even post this at all is beyond me; most of the men who have posted to this thread admittled wanting to see merciless tickle torture-no woman I know of will consent to such. The only way you're going to get true tickle torture is without the lee's consent; just how many women are going to give that willingly? Not many! It's a domination/control fantasy that should stay just that way and not be carried out in real life. That's enough for a good lee to retire before she ever gets started, IMO.

Now you go back and read the OP because if you see anything differently, we're simply not on the same page or you're in denial.

No, you're taking his words completely out of context. Like I said, this is seeing criminal intent where there is none. First off, let me get this out of the way, you don't have to tell me why actual non-con tickling is wrong. It's pretty obvious why. Second, no you don't have to pull a stranger into the bushes to have a true tickle torture video. Third, yes, most of the men DID want to see merciless tickle torture. Myself included. No one said they wanted to see a rape scene. This claim represents perfectly what I said in my previous post: "And no, whatever insidious act you think this or that person is implying that he/she wants to see, no they're not. No one is. You're the only one around thinking about it. Just you."

I, like Todd, want to see an incredibly intense video with a beautiful girl completely immobilized and mercilessly tickled. I want to see the look of panic in her eyes when she sees the tickling coming and when she realizes that she can't do anything to stop it. I want to see her begging for mercy, gasping desperately for air, screaming, etc. But I don't want to see a girl get kidnapped and abused against her will. The fact that no one requested that is fairly convenient. We pretty much all assume that a model goes to a tickling shoot willingly. It goes without saying for any video (I don't think Skelyrata is knocking Emily over the head with a frying pan 3 times a week and bringing her back to his place). Where you guys got the idea of a pervert breaking into someone's home and torturing them without consent is well beyond me.

kis123 said:
Here are portions of the OP (just for those who didn't read). He wants a victim, not a lee. He describes incidents of non-consentual torture and domination/control of said victim. The reason why he hasn't found what he wants is because no woman is going to do it even for money! He even says "serious tickle torture" in his post. so tell me where anyone got his intentions wrong?

No, he wants a lee, not a victim. He described incidents as non-con torture as scenarios. Again, I thought the implications (or lack thereof) were pretty obvious, and I still hold that they are. And you're right, we are obviously not on the same page. Just read what Primetime just wrote. He's got it. He's on the ball here. It's really not that hard.
 
if there were TRULY a strong demand, such media WOULD get made

Redmage said:
If we start with the rates of high-end SM sites like Insex and Hogtied, those companies pay (or paid, in the case of Insex) somewhere around $800-$1500 for a standard shoot lasting 3-4 hours. For comparison purposes, I believe most tickling sites pay in the range of $150-400 for their models. So figure a tickling tape like the ones we're discussing would have to make back at least $1000 or so just to cover the costs for the model. There are usually several hours worth of additional work for the producer in getting a video ready for sale, so he or she will want to get a fair return on that as well (since that's the money that he or she actually gets to live on).

And you also have to figure in duplication and distribution costs as well. For example a site like clips4sale.com (through which a lot of producers sell their clips) often takes as much as 40-50% of each sale! That money is gone off the top, before it even gets to the producer. There's also the costs of video equipment and so on.

Now I'm just guessing, but I think that even the most popular tickling tapes (those with the broadest mass appeal) seldom sell more than a few hundred copies. The tickling market is small, as I said. For a specialty item like this the market will be much smaller. I don't have any real idea how small, but suppose maybe 10% to 20% of tickling fans would be interested in this sort of material. In that case you'd expect at most 20% of the usual sales (probably less, since it'll cost more and that'll drive sales down).

Suppose a popular regular video sells 300 copies at $30 apiece over the course of a year or so. That's $9000 in total sales, of which the producer gets to pocket maybe $3000-4000. A tape like the ones we've been discussing will have to make at least that much for the producer, or why should they bother with it? But it costs more to make, so figure they'll need around $10,000 in sales to make it an attractive proposition. If you figure that such a tape is likely to sell maybe 60 copies, then you're looking at a sale price of almost $170 per tape. That's more than 5 times the price of a regular tickling vid.

There's a lot of semi-educated guesswork in this, but at least it gives some idea of the factors that affect pricing and profitability in a project like this. The bottom line is that whenever a producer is considering some Project A, he has to be confident that it will put at least as much money in his personal pocket as some other Project B would. If he can't be reasonably sure of that, then there's just no percentage for him in Project A. Factors like costs and ultimately how well it will sell are what decides such questions.

Those who want such videos need to convince producers that they're at least as profitable as the videos they're making and selling already. Any producer who can be confident of that will be happy to meet that demand.

And despite some of the comments of some posters here describing producers as "lame" because they don't choose to produce extreme tickle torture clips, I contend that there would be more of these clips available if that tickle scenario were truly as desired as some here indicate......

Tickle producers may not cater to your particular preferences, but neither are they stupid. If there were a real, true, strong demand for these videos and clips, they would get made, because there would be a profitable incentive to do so, and most tickle media producers are out here in part to make a profit. So despite the disagreements and controversy over some producer who may film a ticklee in a "non con" scenario, if that genre would move "movie units" off the shelves in massive numbers, they would be produced.

In my opinion, the "non consensual extreme tickle torture" scenario is just not a very popular one. In addition to the the fact that most ladies would not agree to such conditions, MOST MEN are not even interested in torturing ladies, by tickling or otherwise, to such extremes.....sure, it may sound like a nice fantasy to some, but most guys into the "tickle scene" just want to see an extremely ticklish lady get tickled, and most prefer that the lady in some way also enjoy the experience, if only to increase the chance of personally tickling her again, or seeing her tickled in media again.....

the tickle media business, like most others, is a market driven product....what is preferred and is popular is what will sell the most, and is what will be made. If "non con extreme tickle torture" was preferred and sold well, more would be made, despite the objections of those who are not fans of the genre......
 
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