James Bond

FeatherFan15 said:

I felt sorry forDaniel Craig because I really like him in the role and he's had two of the best films in the series but also two of the weakest.
And when watching OHMSS I was already apprehensive knowing Tracy and the originally intended revenge aspect of Diamonds Are Forever were scrapped.

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Personally I prefer Dalton. I just found not only was he more Fleming like, but he acts and feels more human than Craig does.

Yes, the fight in the salt mine instead of that silly scene in the mud chamber cloning Blofeld, it would have made it a better film.
Another thing why did they re-use an actor that already appeared to play Blofeld? That was stupid.

As you can tell I don't like Guy Hamilton or Daf much.

I was conflicted because I loved Pierce Brosnan in the role but at the same time I wished Dalton's run wasn't limited to just two films.
Charles Grey being used as Blofeld I'd seen some folks use to make fun of the codename theory.

FeatherFan15 said:

I was conflicted because I loved Pierce Brosnan in the role but at the same time I wished Dalton's run wasn't limited to just two films.
Charles Grey being used as Blofeld I'd seen some folks use to make fun of the codename theory.

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Well that is the interesting thing about Goldeneye, it was written for Dalton in the first place and you can tell. It has a very shakesperean Daltonesque feel, but he unfortunately left the role and Brosnan was brought in.
As if that isn't enough, the character of Pushkin from The living daylights was due to make a return as well, which would have tied those two films. But it was changed to the defence minister Dimitri Mishkin.

Yes Charles Grey, who comes across as more of an annoyed teacher at Bond for not paying attention in his classroom. "Pay attention Mr Bond immediately!"
*Bond smiles*
"Perhaps you'd like a bit of detention Mr Bond I have all day!"

Wasn't aware about the Pushkin bit.
Reminds me of General Gogol was meant to play a larger role in The Living Daylights but they had to give most of those scenes to the new character of Pushkin due to Walter Gotell having health issues.
Shame too, having him and Bond conspire together would've been a great send off for the character.

Also extreme nitpick but someone above said Lazenby was the only non British Bond but American actor Barry Nelson was the first ever Bond in a 1954 tv adaptation of Casino Royale and Pierce Brosnan is Irish.

Fun fact, Sam Neil (Dr. Alan Grant in Jurassic Park) was considered for the role of James Bond following the retirement of Roger Moore from the role. I think it could've been cool.

Was a huge fan of the original Bond movies. In my opinion, the last true Bond movie was "Licence To Kill". The original series ended with Dalton, and then Albert Broccoli passing away. The Pierce Brosnan era started off promising to carry on the original series with "Goldeneye", but then quickly went downhill after that heading towards what was to come for the reboot that sits today (which I absolutely hate).

I still hold the way they handled Blofeld in Spectre was a bad idea.

dskodj said:

Was a huge fan of the original Bond movies. In my opinion, the last true Bond movie was "Licence To Kill". The original series ended with Dalton, and then Albert Broccoli passing away. The Pierce Brosnan era started off promising to carry on the original series with "Goldeneye", but then quickly went downhill after that heading towards what was to come for the reboot that sits today (which I absolutely hate).

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It's funny you should say that, I feel the same way too. As soon as Dalton jumps in to the swimming pool and they kiss, that almost feels like a bittersweet goodbye. Goldeneye was a great next film but since TND it has never quite felt the same. I think like you mentioned, largely because of Albert passing away.

FeatherFan15 said:

I still hold the way they handled Blofeld in Spectre was a bad idea.

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Well Blofeld and Spectre is an interesting plot in itself.

The first introduction is Dr No one of their agents, who imo is certainly one of the more successful and sophisticated ones!
Then we are introduced to Ernst Blofeld? Yes I am not kidding the credits of from russian with love, has that written.
That was of course originally Antony Dawson (professor dent) from Dr No, as the mysterious man with a dubbed voice.
In some ways I preferred this mysterious man stroking a cat as an advisary to Bond. He was like an anti M giving orders to his evil agents.

Donald Pleasance was certainly quite ruthless at the role, but he didn't quite have the same menacing voice and stature. For one thing he suddenly became bald lol, even though the previous actor had hair. Incidentally they did have a man with hair before Donald, but he looked like a father christmas when the chair was revealed, so they said. "Uhh no we need someone else." Enter Donald when the face of Blofeld is revealed.

Ironically in Sean Connery's Never say never again, sigh. The Blofeld in that film looks more like the original Blofeld that was due to be in You Only Live Twice.

Telly Savalas was certainly the more novel like Blofeld imo. The way he played Blofeld more like a mastermind criminal, the leader of a gang. Moreso than a mysterious man stroking a cat.
Then ugh, Charles Grey and as I said above, he comes across as more of an annoyed schoolteacher. "Pay attention Mr Bond when I am talking!"
And as for Spectre! Just look at the control room at the end of Diamonds are Forever, there is a sign in the background that says If in Doubt Ask!

Then in for your eyes only, the producers gave Kevin McClory the finger and dropped Blofeld down a large chimney! Right...

Of course Blofeld was not seen again until Christopher Waltz, I didn't really like that portrayal at all.


I wonder how much different Moonraker and the spy who loved me might have been, had blofeld and spectre been in it. Don't get me wrong I like those films, but you can tell they were written with Blofeld in mind.
I remember a while ago reading about this weird dark meditation scene in Moonraker, that had either been written or was cut. Apparently when Bond and Goodhead are walking around the spacestation, they come across a room where the Drax virgins are meditating in this weird sinister way. That would of certainly changed the film a bit..

I did wish the version of Blofeld seen in From Russia With Love and Thunderball had been in at least one more film.

FeatherFan15 said:

I did wish the version of Blofeld seen in From Russia With Love and Thunderball had been in at least one more film.

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Agreed, though I'll never forget watching Donald Pleasence as Blofeld in You Only Live Twice as kid and thinking "Dr. Evil makes sense now."

Blimey! A thread about my favourite film franchise

I absolutely LOVE James Bond films

My favourite has got to be Octopussy. Great plot, more complex than usual, unbridled exoticism and self-referential humour galore. That scene in which the snake charmer plays the series' theme on his flute to attract Bond's attention It also features one of the most handsome men I have ever seen in the person of henchman Gobinda (played by Bollywood star Kabir Bedi).

In general, I love them all. Well, except the revival series that started in 2006. I still defend Daniel Craig as a great Bond. He is colder than the previous ones, but he has really imposed a new style that does not betray the original spirit. His acting and physical presence are also top notch.

Unfortunately, the Craig films themselves are awful. The stories are terrible, there is none of the ingredients that made the previous movies so appealing and the action is lackluster. Casino Royale was great up to the latter third, with those atrocious "recovery" scenes wherein Bond and Vesper are clumsily forced into an artificial love story. At the end, I think Bond should have killed her, not tried to save her. It was embarrassing to say the least.

Quantum was manure, Skyfall had a great first half and a laughable second half, and Spectre was just a bad joke. All in all, I hate this era, and what I heard about the new movie that's coming up (No Time To Die) does not make me want to see it. All in all, I've lost faith in the franchise. This is all the more surprising that Barbara Broccoli had proved to be a very capable producer throughout the Brosnan era, which I loved.

Wesker28 said:

Then in for your eyes only, the producers gave Kevin McClory the finger and dropped Blofeld down a large chimney! Right...

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Aw come on, that scene was awesome~ And the movie itself is great: Carole Bouquet was a fantastic Bond girl

Octopussy was my favourite of the Roger Moore films for being a really fun movie.
Also when I saw Kingsman it made me wish the Craig films still had gadgets.
All I recall was the headlight guns on the DB5 in Skyfall and an exploding watch in Spectre.

FeatherFan15 said:

Also when I saw Kingsman it made me wish the Craig films still had gadgets.

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Kingsman are pretty much everything the newer James Bond films refuse to be. Granted, Kingsman has got its own identity, distinct from James Bond. But in terms of fun, tone, style, characterization and themes, it is pretty much old school Bond.

Aw come on, that scene was awesome~ And the movie itself is great: Carole Bouquet was a fantastic Bond girl

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I will buy you a delicatessen in stainless steel?! Alright keep your hair on!
How the mighty fell, no pun intended.

My favourite has got to be Octopussy.

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Fascinating, a lot of people don't like Octopussy at all. I don't mind that film myself and Personally I think it should of been Roger's last, because he went out on a much better note than avtak, or as I call it the Goldfinger remake with 80s hair and Christopher Walken lol.
People usually slam the octopussy scene of him in a clown costume, forgetting the fact that he was trying to disguise himself.

On another note what do people think of M? Personally Bernard Lee will always be the definative M to me. His replacement Robert Brown was never quite stern and grumpy enough imo.

Barbara Broccoli had proved to be a very capable producer throughout the Brosnan era, which I loved.

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Well then it could also be down to Michael G Wilson, he got involved in it too.

Wesker28 said:

I will buy you a delicatessen in stainless steel?! Alright keep your hair on!
How the mighty fell, no pun intended.

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Hahaha, yes but this type of humour has all its place, especially in the Moore era. I also liked in this scene how it started with a visit to his late wife's grave. Never forget that the man he drops in the chimney is the one responsible for said wife's death. And it fits with the ruthlessness of the Bond character. Why they gave the whole scene such a light tone, I have no idea; it could have been handled in a much darker and/or epic fashion. But in my opinion, it worked.

To be honest though, it was weird. The infamous "stainless steel" line had many a fan scratching his head. I remember reading from a journalist who is a true Bond fan and wrote a great book about the series: "Many fans still wonder to this day what that line meant"

Wesker28 said:

Fascinating, a lot of people don't like Octopussy at all. I don't mind that film myself and personally I think it should of been Roger's last, because he went out on a much better note than avtak, or as I call it the Goldfinger remake with 80s hair and Christopher Walken lol.
People usually slam the octopussy scene of him in a clown costume, forgetting the fact that he was trying to disguise himself.

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Yes, not to mention the clown scene is not really played for laughs and is quite suspenseful actually.

I will defend A View To A Kill, though. Despite suffering from a very forgettable Bond Girl and – I agree with you – having the villain's motivations mirror those of Goldfinger's too closely, I still love this entry. Christopher Walken did a terrific job as probably the scariest and most sadistic villain of the franchise after Robert Davi's Franz Sanchez (arguably THE cruelest, classiest and most realistic Bond villain to date). His background of genetic manipulation, his cold brand of charm and the ruthlessness with which he kills gave the whole film a definite atmosphere of menace. Once again Bond is facing a really tough opponent who will not hesitate to maim and kill anyone, and who has a great intellect to boot. Who wasn't chilled to the bone by this scene wherein he throws a Russian agent through an underwater pipe to be hacked to death by a turbine? Or when he gunned down a bunch of people in a ditch, Nazi style, with a gleeful smile? Man, I swear you can practically see that he has a hard-on when he kills.

Great supporting cast as well. It was ballsy to cast Grace Jones as a Jaws-esque physically unstoppable henchwoman, and she did a terrific job. Patrick Macnee was his usual "nice guy" self, and it was truly heartbreaking to see him murder in once again a sadistic fashion. Patrick Bauchau played his Scarpine character a little bit in a low-key fashion, but it must have been damn hard to exist between a pair of larger-than-life characters such as Zorin and May Day. And in the end, he proved to be Zorin's truly most trusted man. There is even General Gogol returning for yet another cameo, not as great as in Octopussy or Moonraker but still good, and he comes accompanied with a soon-to-become-famous Dolph Lundgren, nonetheless!

Those who argue that Moore looked too old for the part are entitled to their opinion, but I disagree. He pulled off the action scenes great and he had been Bond for so long at that point that it did not require any suspension of disbelief on my part. The chase in Paris was amazing, the horse-riding great, and the climatic hand-to-hand fight on top of the Golden Gate absolutely delightful. When all is said and done, I do agree that it was time for a change, and what a change we got in the person of Timothy Dalton who really brought something new by nicely wrapping up the Cold War with what was arguably the best plot in the entire series. But I digress

Wesker28 said:

On another note what do people think of M? Personally Bernard Lee will always be the definative M to me. His replacement Robert Brown was never quite stern and grumpy enough imo.

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Bernard Lee was the best M up until Judi Dench arrived, IMO. I always liked him; it is never stated in the films, but I always imagined him as having fought in WWII with distinction. Like, you know, James Bond would be kind of a new generation for a new era M would not understand fully, hence his tolerance towards our favourite agent's unorthodox approach.

Funny though, I always felt Robert Brown' M was actually grumpier than Lee's and never gave the feeling he liked Bond as much as his predecessor. Maybe it is him scolding Bond in Licence to Kill that influences my opinion, though, I am not sure ^_^

Wesker28 said:

Well then it could also be down to Michael G Wilson, he got involved in it too.

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How much influence he holds over her is unclear, but since she carries the name I always think of her as the one truly in charge. I could be wrong of course, but in interviews she sounds like the one with a vision, and Mr Wilson appears like a more traditional producer who takes care of a lot of practical stuff. Once again, I do not know for certain~

Hahaha, yes but this type of humour has all its place, especially in the Moore era. I also liked in this scene how it started with a visit to his late wife's grave. Never forget that the man he drops in the chimney is the one responsible for said wife's death. And it fits with the ruthlessness of the Bond character. Why they gave the whole scene such a light tone, I have no idea; it could have been handled in a much darker and/or epic fashion. But in my opinion, it worked.

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Yes Dalton I am sure would have made it darker haha.

Yes, not to mention the clown scene is not really played for laughs and is quite suspenseful actually.

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Yes, having to diffuse a bomb whilst the most beautiful bond girl imo, Maude Adams watches. Had it gone off it would have been horrific!
Incidentally, the line, "spend the money quickly mr bond" from Kamal, was taken from Drax from the Moonraker novel. Another piece of trivia for you.

I will defend A View To A Kill, though. Despite suffering from a very forgettable Bond Girl and – I agree with you – having the villain's motivations mirror those of Goldfinger's too closely, I still love this entry.

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I am not saying it is an awful film, I am just saying it is clearly a Goldfinger remake.
The film climax is in the air, Zorin is like the Goldfinger of microchips, he drops someone out of an airship just as goldfinger crushes a car, countless other examples I can think of. I agree with you about Zorin though, you get the impression he will just kill you for no reason. Sanchez still beats him though, if for no reason other than, a he blows up Krest's head lol, b he takes out lupe's lover's heart, c he allows a shark to disagree with Leiter. Oh heck I can go on lol.
Incidentally again, the shark scene was taken from the Live and let die novel. Mr Big does it to Felix, right down to leaving the note with his body.

The story of Zorin is an interesting one that was never really explained well I feel. It is kind of hinted that he was a modified man and implied that Dr Mortner was his nazi father/creator. Which makes more sense at the end when he screams Maax! But the film does not really point this rather sinister fact out very well. Maybe some more scenes of that...
That kind of reminds me of Carver in Tomorrow Never Dies, there was a cut scene that informs you he had a rather confusing upbringing and that he drove his father to suicide. It gives these people a bit more edge if you ask me.

Great supporting cast as well. It was ballsy to cast Grace Jones as a Jaws-esque physically unstoppable henchwoman, and she did a terrific job.

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Yes I like that fact that, after all her evil acts, she still helped save the city in the end, even if only to get even with Zorin.

Patrick Macnee was his usual "nice guy" self, and it was truly heartbreaking to see him murder in once again a sadistic fashion.

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That I am sure was the idea lol, going in to town to get the car washed was I am sure, meant in good faith. I guess Mayday didn't want him to have a clean car lol.

Patrick Bauchau played his Scarpine character a little bit in a low-key fashion, but it must have been damn hard to exist between a pair of larger-than-life characters such as Zorin and May Day. And in the end, he proved to be Zorin's truly most trusted man. There is even General Gogol returning for yet another cameo, not as great as in Octopussy or Moonraker but still good, and he comes accompanied with a soon-to-become-famous Dolph Lundgren, nonetheless!

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Dolph was there I believe because he was seeing Grace Jones at the time, she got him the part.
Yes Patrick Bauchau, I am not really sure he quite knew how to play that, he was definately Zorin's most loyal sideman though, since Zorin never tried to kill him.

Those who argue that Moore looked too old for the part are entitled to their opinion, but I disagree. He pulled off the action scenes great and he had been Bond for so long at that point that it did not require any suspension of disbelief on my part. The chase in Paris was amazing, the horse-riding great, and the climatic hand-to-hand fight on top of the Golden Gate absolutely delightful. When all is said and done, I do agree that it was time for a change, and what a change we got in the person of Timothy Dalton who really brought something new by nicely wrapping up the Cold War with what was arguably the best plot in the entire series. But I digress

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One of the problems with Moore is that, for some reason someone had this not so bright idea to do something to his face. The result of that was he looked older. It does make me wonder what would have happened had that been Dalton's first. A bit more brutal and probably no Stacey Sutton.. I wish!
She tries to do right but ends up doing stupid things, then keeps screaming James, James. Useless! Even Mary Goodnight was less annoying.
One odd thing about Stacey I always found, is that on one of the avtak posters, she is drawn standing with Roger on top of the bridge wearing pink and is barefoot... Odd since she is never wearing pink or barefoot lol. Not sure if this was planned..

Bernard Lee was the best M up until Judi Dench arrived, IMO. I always liked him; it is never stated in the films, but I always imagined him as having fought in WWII with distinction. Like, you know, James Bond would be kind of a new generation for a new era M would not understand fully, hence his tolerance towards our favourite agent's unorthodox approach.

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I believe that was meant to be the point, he is referred to as Admiral once or twice and he seems to not like the new generation of people, ie Bond.
M is quite formal and 007 is the opposite.

Funny though, I always felt Robert Brown's M was actually grumpier than Lee's and never gave the feeling he liked Bond as much as his predecessor. Maybe it is him scolding Bond in Licence to Kill that influences my opinion, though, I am not sure ^_^

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Really? I always found Robert Brown to be too nice imo. Bernard Lee snapping SIT DOWN 007! Compared to Brown saying, that is not good enough Bond...
Judi Dench I never really cared for. Although I did like her line in Tnd accusing an admiral of thinking with his balls.

How much influence he holds over her is unclear, but since she carries the name I always think of her as the one truly in charge. I could be wrong of course, but in interviews she sounds like the one with a vision, and Mr Wilson appears like a more traditional producer who takes care of a lot of practical stuff. Once again, I do not know for certain

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I don't know either, I just know that the two of them gradually took over the franchise and it went downhill after Cubby's death lol.

Did you also notice that the original Bond films were a partnership, up until the Golden Gun and Albert eventually became the sole holder. However Harry Saltzman went on to make some pretty good spy films starring Michael Caine.

Another fact for you, for the first few Connery films the man that shoots the walther at the gunbarrel, is not actually Sean Connery. It was a stuntman Bob Simmons and eventually by Thunderball Sean finally started doing it.
If you look carefully, you can see the face isn't Sean initially.

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Before I begin, I've got to say that it is a real pleasure to discuss the James Bond films with a fellow Bond enthusiast, here of all places. Thank you for this

Wesker28 said:

Yes, having to diffuse a bomb whilst the most beautiful bond girl imo, Maud Adams watches. Had it gone off it would have been horrific!

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I also like Maud Adams a lot. She is not my favourite Bond Girl, but close enough. My wife hates her though, she finds her super ugly. She (Maud, not my wife) is also the only actress to have played two different Bond Girls, as she was also Scaramanga's wife in The Man With The Golden Gun (which I like a lot, contrary to many fans). Sadly, she has expressed disinterest with her work in the franchise, despite how great she was in it. In the documentary Bond Girls Are Forever by Maryam D'Abo, she can barely watch herself and borderline regrets having shot James Bond movies, which is a shame.

On the part during which Moore is brutalizing her (she's so sexy when she is just out of the shower ), which I loved because it is precisely this kind of stuff that reminds the viewer that Bond films are not just pure comedy and silliness, she commented "we couldn't do that nowadays".

Speaking of D'Abo's documentary, it was interesting to see that it was not necessarily the most iconic Bond girls who ended up being the proudest about their work. Also, the ones who were the prettiest back then did not necessarily age the best. I absolutely loved the interview of Jill St-John (the very American Tiffany Case from Diamonds Are Forever) who was just as badass and uncomplicated as she was in the movie, while sounding a lot smarter than her character~

Wesker28 said:

Incidentally, the line, "spend the money quickly mr bond" from Kamal, was taken from Drax from the Moonraker novel. Another piece of trivia for you.

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Hehe, don't wanna sound like I'm bragging, but I knew this one Also the one about shark scene in Licence to Kill being from the Live and Let Die novel.

Wesker28 said:

I am not saying it is an awful film, I am just saying it is clearly a Goldfinger remake.
The film climax is in the air, Zorin is like the Goldfinger of microchips, he drops someone out of an airship just as goldfinger crushes a car, countless other examples I can think of. I agree with you about Zorin though, you get the impression he will just kill you for no reason. Sanchez still beats him though, if for no reason other than, a he blows up Krest's head lol, b he takes out lupe's lover's heart, c he allows a shark to disagree with Leiter. Oh heck I can go on lol.

The story of Zorin is an interesting one that was never really explained well I feel. It is kind of hinted that he was a modified man and implied that Dr Mortner was his nazi father/creator. Which makes more sense at the end when he screams Maax! But the film does not really point this rather sinister fact out very well. Maybe some more scenes of that...

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I think it's a bit much to call it a Goldfinger remake. Goldfinger is a very special film in the franchise, introducing such tropes as the gadget-laden sports cars, the charismatic antagonist, the weird yet nigh-unstoppable hechman, the psychological jousts between the hero and the villainous mastermind, the impressively choreographed action scenes... and yet Bond spends a good half of the film in captivity, and ends up defeating his opponent using his brain more than flexing his muscles.

A View To A Kill is different enough to stand as its own thing. While the villain's motivations do mirror those of Goldfinger's, they fit also very well in the era's budding computer craze. The variety of locations and various sub-plots tie together nicely, and the sadism of the villain (Goldfinger is a ruthless businessman, while Zorin is a handsome devil who loves to see people suffer; would have made a great Dracula-esque villain in a Hammer film) are enough in my view to clearly separate the films. The only real weakness is how forgettable Tanya Roberts was as Tracy Sutton; I had to look her up yet again, as I keep forgetting even her name. Although I would still rank her higher than Molly Goodnight, who in my view was the worst Bond Girl, because she is at least pretty (Britt Ekland wasn't, IMO). The gorgeous Alison Doody should have had more screen time, also, her character of Jenny Flex (lol) was gravely underused. There could have been a great scene where she tortured Tanya Robert's character, for example.

Wesker28 said:

That kind of reminds me of Carver in Tomorrow Never Dies, there was a cut scene that informs you he had a rather confusing upbringing and that he drove his father to suicide. It gives these people a bit more edge if you ask me.

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THAT, on the other hand, I did not know! Damn, why do they keep cutting out stuff like this? Super interesting, thank you~ Tomorrow Never Dies is my favourite of the Brosnan Era, I keep returning to it.

Wesker28 said:

Yes I like that fact that, after all her evil acts, she still helped save the city in the end, even if only to get even with Zorin.

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Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned One of the things I like about Bond films is the characterization. The writers often make their characters very 3-dimentional instead of the usual caricatures one can see in more run-of-the-mill action movies. The logical twist of May Day flipping her coat after being betrayed and the glorious way in which she blows herself up without hesitation RIGHT UNDER HER EX LOVER'S EYES just to tell him: "I made sure your plan failed, see you in hell!" was amazing.

Wesker28 said:

Dolph was there I believe because he was seeing Grace Jones at the time, she got him the part.
Yes Patrick Bauchau, I am not really sure he quite knew how to play that, he was definitely Zorin's most loyal sideman though, since Zorin never tried to kill him.

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Yes, they were dating. A rare and obvious case of a man submitting to a woman to get a part Just kidding. He was very believable as a KGB bodyguard, and had a great career later on. As for Bauchau, we agree that he was a little bit TOO subdued. But as I said, the film was already replete with bigger-than-life characters, so he probably chose to be sort of low-key. Besides, it is not like he had been given many lines to begin with.

Wesker28 said:

One of the problems with Moore is that, for some reason someone had this not so bright idea to do something to his face. The result of that was he looked older. It does make me wonder what would have happened had that been Dalton's first. A bit more brutal and probably no Stacey Sutton.. I wish!
She tries to do right but ends up doing stupid things, then keeps screaming James, James. Useless! Even Mary Goodnight was less annoying.
One odd thing about Stacey I always found, is that on one of the avtak posters, she is drawn standing with Roger on top of the bridge wearing pink and is barefoot... Odd since she is never wearing pink or barefoot lol. Not sure if this was planned...

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Oh good point! I love Moore and once again he does the job ("Nobody does him better", remember? XD) but you're right, it could have been a better Dalton flick. He would have been a great counterpoint to Walken's suave brand of sadism.

I've already said my piece about Stacy Sutton and Britt Ekland so I won't go back on it, but your comment about feet made me chuckle. Only "specialists" like us notice this kind of details, haha

Wesker28 said:

I believe that was meant to be the point, he is referred to as Admiral once or twice and he seems to not like the new generation of people, ie Bond.
M is quite formal and 007 is the opposite.


Really? I always found Robert Brown to be too nice imo. Bernard Lee snapping SIT DOWN 007! Compared to Brown saying, that is not good enough Bond...

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Maybe you're right, it is all a matter of perception. When I think of Bernard Lee, I remember a warm and supportive boss, if a tad bit traditional (his reaction to the dart in the horse's backside on the painting that hangs in his office in Moonraker ) and strict when needed. I remember him most for the secret base inside the capsized boat in The Man With the Golden Gun, and most of all for his defense of his best agent after Sir Frederick Gray wants to take him off the case if not firing him outright in Moonraker. His show of trust was quite touching.

Wesker28 said:

Judi Dench I never really cared for. Although I did like her line in Tnd accusing an admiral of thinking with his balls.

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That's where I REALLY disagree. Dame Judi Dench is the best M ever. Killing her off was blatantly stupid (another proof that the writers of the new era clearly do not know what they are doing) and she is sorely missed. I absolutely loved her introduction in Goldeneye, when she is briefing Bond; possibly the best briefing scene in the whole saga. In a slightly 4th-wall breaking fashion, she addresses him the same critics that film reviewers had voiced about the franchise itself, and bluntly asks the new Bond to prove his relevance in this (then) new era. And she does that with such class! A true British upper class lady; I can totally imagine her ordering the most brutal of actions in order to see the completion of a mission. I liked how the writers gave her M a central-ish role in the plot of The World Is Not Enough (a flawed movie that tries hard but misses its mark by a few inches) and how she is constantly navigating between allowing Bond to do what he is good at, and restraining him.

The scene you mentioned with Admiral Roebuck (forgot the actor's name) was especially funny to British viewers because Judi Dench and him played a married couple in a sitcom that was popular at the time.

Wesker28 said:

I don't know either, I just know that the two of them gradually took over the franchise and it went downhill after Cubby's death lol.

Did you also notice that the original Bond films were a partnership, up until the Golden Gun and Albert eventually became the sole holder. However Harry Saltzman went on to make some pretty good spy films starring Michael Caine.

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Except Goldeneye, whose inception was still supervised by Cubby (he had picked Brosnan to replace Roger Moore, but he had been unavailable due to Remington Steele, and it's Timothy Dalton who got the part), the Brosnan era was handled by Barbara and Saltzman, and I think they did a terrific job! It is really the Craig era where during which everything is falling apart, and not slowly as you mentioned but more like an avalanche if you ask me.

I used to be Barbara Brocoli's staunchest supporter. Her stubborn and resolute defense of her late father's cultural heritage, the finesse with which she handled the licencing of the IP, and the tremendous amount of pressure she lives constantly under every time they shoot and release another installment of what is the longest franchise of cinematic history... All this made me really respect her work, an oddity of Babylon-Hollywood.

But lately, things went the wrong way. It is really painful for me to see what the Bond films have become, and the future does not look too bright either

Wesker28 said:

Another fact for you, for the first few Connery films the man that shoots the Walther at the gunbarrel, is not actually Sean Connery. It was a stuntman Bob Simmons and eventually by Thunderball Sean finally started doing it.
If you look carefully, you can see the face isn't Sean initially.

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I knew that too. By the way, it is criminal that they have done away with the gun barrel sequence in recent years

Again, it's been a real pleasure. Cheers, mate!

One of my hopes for No Time To Die was a good gunbarrel.
Daniel Craign hasn't a good gunbarrel with no glaring problems since his first one way back in 2006.

FeatherFan15 said:

One of my hopes for No Time To Die was a good gunbarrel.
Daniel Craign hasn't a good gunbarrel with no glaring problems since his first one way back in 2006.

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We need Bob Simmons back

Before I begin, I've got to say that it is a real pleasure to discuss the James Bond films with a fellow Bond enthusiast, here of all places. Thank you for this

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Thank you also.

I also like Maud Adams a lot. She is not my favourite Bond Girl, but close enough. My wife hates her though, she finds her super ugly. She (Maud, not my wife) is also the only actress to have played two different Bond Girls, as she was also Scaramanga's wife in The Man With The Golden Gun (which I like a lot, contrary to many fans). Sadly, she has expressed disinterest with her work in the franchise, despite how great she was in it. In the documentary Bond Girls Are Forever by Maryam D'Abo, she can barely watch herself and borderline regrets having shot James Bond movies, which is a shame.

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Ah yes Maryam, she played the blonde eastern european bond girl very well. She could also be quite sinister, the way she drugged Bond without him realising.
I consider Maud to certainly be the most beautiful bond girl to date. She also was quite clever too, she wasn't just an "Oh James!" She risked her life because she wanted to escape Scaramanga and as Octopussy, she had quite the clever smuggling operation going on. I remember the first time I saw that film, to begin with I thought Kristina's Magda was Octopussy, because of that tatoo. Then when Octopussy appeared WOWWWWWWW! Although if memory serves Maud played the part because Moore was a bit concerned about him and a younger woman. Lol a fact which got worse in AVTAK.
"Goodnight Stacey i'm sleeping in the arm chair." "Won't you tuck me in James purrr?" "Errrrr no I have to guard the house and I think your cat wants to sleep on my lap."
Maud also appears as an extra in AVTAK as well. Somewhere...

On the part during which Moore is brutalizing her (she's so sexy when she is just out of the shower ), which I loved because it is precisely this kind of stuff that reminds the viewer that Bond films are not just pure comedy and silliness, she commented "we couldn't do that nowadays".

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Yes when she comes out with a water pistol lol.
Unfortunately that was the last film where Moore continued the Connery trend of being a bit brutal, not just with Maud but aiming at Lazar's groin.
Brutal was also something the fleming Bond was known for...

John Glenn made Roger kick the car off the edge in FYEO though, although Moore didn't enjoy it. Too bad because when he wants to be, Moore can be quite dark. If you like Moore btw, I recommend the Saint. A lot of episodes come across as b movie 007, with constant re-used set pieces and bad accents lol.

On the subject of the Golden Gun I do like the Bond vs Scaramanga parts of the film and the funhouse is really cool. That must have been quite the set to build! The Golden Gun has to rank as one of the best weapons in the entire franchise too.
I just wish the Bond vs Scaramanga was in the film a lot more. Apparently there was to be more of that in the earlier screenplay but it was changed to the silly Solex Agitator?! For goodness sake we spend about 2 mins of Q and M and Bond talking about the Solex Agitator?! A really agitating moment!
Bond nearly dies as well because of Goodnight's buttocks

Speaking of D'Abo's documentary, it was interesting to see that it was not necessarily the most iconic Bond girls who ended up being the proudest about their work. Also, the ones who were the prettiest back then did not necessarily age the best. I absolutely loved the interview of Jill St-John (the very American Tiffany Case from Diamonds Are Forever) who was just as badass and uncomplicated as she was in the movie, while sounding a lot smarter than her character~

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Tiffany Casesh? "Well that's a nice little nothing you are almost wearing, I approve!"
I actually stood on the steps of the building used for her apartment a few years ago, much to the strange look from the man inside decorating the walls lol.
I told my gf to take a photo and I tried to look like I was ringing the doorbell.

Hehe, don't wanna sound like I'm bragging, but I knew this one Also the one about shark scene in Licence to Kill being from the Live and Let Die novel.

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Yes, if memory serves it is not just the shark scene, but the whole boathouse that Sanchez hides in was inspired by the one used by Mr Big.
That scene when Dalton walks around at night and kills the traitor Ed, I am pretty sure Bond in Live and Let die sneaks around the very same boathouse at one point. John Glen was the director of LTK and wanted to take the series in a darker direction. On the subject of LTK I can't remember whether it was when Dalton parachuted, or when he jumped out of the plane, but I know that Cubby was very upset that Dalton did a stunt lol. What's he doing out there get back inside! I can just imagine Dalton smling and waving at him and Cubby as white as a sheet.

I think it's a bit much to call it a Goldfinger remake. Goldfinger is a very special film in the franchise, introducing such tropes as the gadget-laden sports cars, the charismatic antagonist, the weird yet nigh-unstoppable hechman, the psychological jousts between the hero and the villainous mastermind, the impressively choreographed action scenes... and yet Bond spends a good half of the film in captivity, and ends up defeating his opponent using his brain more than flexing his muscles.

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Yes that is the thing about Goldfinger which makes it unique, Bond doesn't really do a lot, just spends the film trying to survive. The disappointing Sherry scene is rather amusing, which a touch of bon wa.
You probably also know that the laser, was in the novel a motorised Saw lol. Just as the poisonous spider in Dr No was a centipede and Dr No dies from having Birds mess thrown on top of him, I am so glad that was changed to the water reactor!

A View To A Kill is different enough to stand as its own thing. While the villain's motivations do mirror those of Goldfinger's, they fit also very well in the era's budding computer craze. The variety of locations and various sub-plots tie together nicely, and the sadism of the villain (Goldfinger is a ruthless businessman, while Zorin is a handsome devil who loves to see people suffer; would have made a great Dracula-esque villain in a Hammer film) are enough in my view to clearly separate the films. The only real weakness is how forgettable Tanya Roberts was as Tracy Sutton; I had to look her up yet again, as I keep forgetting even her name. Although I would still rank her higher than Molly Goodnight, who in my view was the worst Bond Girl, because she is at least pretty (Britt Ekland wasn't, IMO). The gorgeous Alison Doody should have had more screen time, also, her character of Jenny Flex (lol) was gravely underused. There could have been a great scene where she tortured Tanya Robert's character, for example.

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Lol yes, maybe she would of actually been bare foot like in that poster lol.
Hmm ok you have a point, the films are slightly different but certainly very similar. I would probably but Stacey and Mary nearly on the same level then. Mary was a ditsy blonde getting in to trouble, Stacey was a not so ditsy blonde getting in to trouble. But Mary gets 1.0 over Stacey because of that really annoying screaming and not looking behind her. Stacey there is airship behind you, IT'S BEHIND YOU! *face palm*

THAT, on the other hand, I did not know! Damn, why do they keep cutting out stuff like this? Super interesting, thank you~ Tomorrow Never Dies is my favourite of the Brosnan Era, I keep returning to it.

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That is not all, Ricky Jay rip, the man that played Henry Gupta was initially hired by the director of TND, because he could perform some tricks with cards. He saw him on the street doing it and said ok you are hired. These were also cut in the film!
The scene where Stamper communicates from the boat with Gupta in Hamburg, had a cut moment of Gupta tossing his card across the room, very deadly sharp metal cards!

As if this isn't enough, when Bond and Lin are in Saigon yet another cut scene was filmed, where Gupta tries throwing his deadly card weapons at Bond!
I mean wtf! Why would you cut that out, it makes Gupta look like a deadly character. Not just a man that gets shot that presses buttons on a computer.
That director was a moron, he hired Ricky because of what he could with cards yet cut those moments out! Incredible!

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned One of the things I like about Bond films is the characterization. The writers often make their characters very 3-dimentional instead of the usual caricatures one can see in more run-of-the-mill action movies. The logical twist of May Day flipping her coat after being betrayed and the glorious way in which she blows herself up without hesitation RIGHT UNDER HER EX LOVER'S EYES just to tell him: "I made sure your plan failed, see you in hell!" was amazing.

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Yes.

I've already said my piece about Stacy Sutton and Britt Ekland so I won't go back on it, but your comment about feet made me chuckle. Only "specialists" like us notice this kind of details, haha
Yes I just always found this detail on the film poster weird. Barefoot in a pink dress....

Maybe you're right, it is all a matter of perception. When I think of Bernard Lee, I remember a warm and supportive boss, if a tad bit traditional (his reaction to the dart in the horse's backside on the painting that hangs in his office in Moonraker ) and strict when needed. I remember him most for the secret base inside the capsized boat in The Man With the Golden Gun, and most of all for his defense of his best agent after Sir Frederick Gray wants to take him off the case if not firing him outright in Moonraker. His show of trust was quite touching.

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Yes, "007 no slip ups or we are both in trouble."
Hmm maybe he gradually warms to Bond then, because he is certainly quite strict and cold in the early films. Because of what we said before, the new generation perhaps.

That's where I REALLY disagree. Dame Judi Dench is the best M ever. Killing her off was blatantly stupid (another proof that the writers of the new era clearly do not know what they are doing) and she is sorely missed. I absolutely loved her introduction in Goldeneye, when she is briefing Bond; possibly the best briefing scene in the whole saga. In a slightly 4th-wall breaking fashion, she addresses him the same critics that film reviewers had voiced about the franchise itself, and bluntly asks the new Bond to prove his relevance in this (then) new era. And she does that with such class! A true British upper class lady; I can totally imagine her ordering the most brutal of actions in order to see the completion of a mission. I liked how the writers gave her M a central-ish role in the plot of The World Is Not Enough (a flawed movie that tries hard but misses its mark by a few inches) and how she is constantly navigating between allowing Bond to do what he is good at, and restraining him.

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Hmmm, I have just never really cared for M being a woman.

The scene you mentioned with Admiral Roebuck (forgot the actor's name) was especially funny to British viewers because Judi Dench and him played a married couple in a sitcom that was popular at the time.

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Yes I know I never watched it, but I remember seeing brief footage of it.

Except Goldeneye, whose inception was still supervised by Cubby (he had picked Brosnan to replace Roger Moore, but he had been unavailable due to Remington Steele, and it's Timothy Dalton who got the part), the Brosnan era was handled by Barbara and Saltzman, and I think they did a terrific job! It is really the Craig era where during which everything is falling apart, and not slowly as you mentioned but more like an avalanche if you ask me.

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Yes Brosnan very nearly did the living daylights, fortunately we got Dalton instead. As if that isn't enough, Dalton was asked as far back as OHMSS, but he felt he was too young.

I used to be Barbara Brocoli's staunchest supporter. Her stubborn and resolute defense of her late father's cultural heritage, the finesse with which she handled the licencing of the IP, and the tremendous amount of pressure she lives constantly under every time they shoot and release another installment of what is the longest franchise of cinematic history... All this made me really respect her work, an oddity of Babylon-Hollywood.

But lately, things went the wrong way. It is really painful for me to see what the Bond films have become, and the future does not look too bright either

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The name is bond feminist bond. To be honest on the subject of Hollywood, it started going down the toilet ages ago imo.
Before we had this woke nonsense, films were becoming remakes of previous films and directors and film makers don't take chances any more. Or they try to and Hollywood says no we need to keep to the program.

Forgetting of course that the 70s was an interesting time for films and directors. Steven Spielberg's first ever film for example Duel, was an incredible film and he took some serious chances and gambles. That is what a film should be about, not a let's play it safe and structure a film like this, because it worked 20 years ago. They just don't get it any more.

I knew that too. By the way, it is criminal that they have done away with the gun barrel sequence in recent years
Again, it's been a real pleasure. Cheers, mate!

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We need Bob Simmons again.
Yes, it is always a pleasure talking about this. Have you ever seen the classic advert for the James Bond vhs releases? I always thought that was well edited, since the first time I saw it as a child.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBr4qtZlKoc

When I was at school my friend actually won a competition, or he might of filled out a magazine I can't remember. By doing so he would get all James Bond films on VHS sent to him, one every month I think it was.. Up until I think Goldeneye or maybe only LTK.
Judging by the fact Brosnan was not in the trailer I would say up until LTK. Suffice to say he would lend me his films and every time I would press play, that trailer would come on. That takes me back!

Here this is what I am referring to:

These are all the deleted scenes from TND, it is a shame because even the Carver scenes make him more of a Brutal villain with these alternate takes and Gupta is Brutal!
Smh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwLawBMFniY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6y8kzFY18c

I'd also seen it argued that the lack of gadgets in the newer films was also a detriment to the video games because it means you don't get fun gadgets there to play around with.
Back when they were still actually making games at least, I don't think there's been one since 007 legends and that just rehashes parts of the old film with Craig's Bond forced in.

FeatherFan15 said:

I'd also seen it argued that the lack of gadgets in the newer films was also a detriment to the video games because it means you don't get fun gadgets there to play around with.
Back when they were still actually making games at least, I don't think there's been one since 007 legends and that just rehashes parts of the old film with Craig's Bond forced in.

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For me it isn't the lack of gadgets, I just find the bond series with Craig boring.
Each to their own, but I just find the films don't grab me like the old ones.