WWE fans: question regarding the I-C title

[primetime]

i know there are a few WWE (or WWF) fans out there. i have a question. what do you guys think about the Intercontinental title? remember back in the 1980's, when the title meant something? remember guys like Tito Santana, Randy Savage, Honky Tonk Man, Bret Hart and others who held the title? nowadays, it seems like the title is meaningless. i'm sorry but RVD isnt bringing prestige back to the title.

i think it went downhill when the other singles titles were introduced. before, the ONLY singles titles were the World title and I-C belt. not enough belts to go around. now with the European, and Cruiserweight titles, there are more champions. much like the U.S. Heavyweight title was in WCW. who cared? i hope the I-C belt gets its prestige back. what do you guys think?

[Krokus]

You are correct. It is a shame, because back in the good ol' days, being a champion actually meant something. Now a title change is common.

[areenactor]

but i think RVD is great. he brings a much needed grace, and gentelmenly manor to the ring. i agree about roddy piper though, he was awsome.
steve

[toyou444]

While I agree that the constant changing of titles can be confusing, would you rather have a guy like Test hold on to the belt for a year or 2 or 5? Starting with Pat Patterson the IC belt was always cool cuase it meant that guy would get a shot at the heavy weight title...now I agree that its nothing more than ornamental. At RVD wrestles! Half the guys (and most of the women) wouldn't know a arm bar from a crowbar...and probably rather use the crowbar!

~ toyou

[Knightshade]

I never liked HTM as a champion, Ricky Steamboat was much better, and so was Randy Savage.

But bringing prestige to the titles is something that needs to be addressed. RVD is a good wrestler but he needs a nice long run to bring it back up.

[BigJim]

Damn good point PT! Nowadays the belt isn't worth as much because there are so many damn titles floating around. With the Euopean, Hardcore and Light Heavyweight belts doing the rounds too, it's getting confusing. Added to that is the point that guys are lucky to keep a belt for three or four weeks these days. In the Hitman's day a title reign was expected to last at least three months and quite often it was longer. These rapid title changes are getting on my tits and are one reason why I've lost interest in the WWF (I will NEVER call it WWE!!!!! )

[Flatfoot]

I do remember those days when the Intercontinental Title actually meant something. Nowadays, I think it still bears some significance. Sure, it changes hands quite frequently, but how can that be avoided with such a huge roster? Also, an advantage to frequent changes is that the audience will not get bored seeing the same person win every single match. I think back to the days when Bret Hart was the Heavyweight champion for I don't even remember how long(too long in my mind, anyway), and I got so sick of seeing him. I kept wondering, "When is he going to lose? I'm sick of his stupid, pink sunglasses, his pink tights, his bland personality, and his so-called technical wrestling expertise." Nowadays, I'd be glad to see Bret Hart return, but I could not endure that period of time where he was the heavyweight champion (What was it, a year?). I seem to have strayed a little bit from the topic of I-C belt to Heavyweight belt, but I think the I-C belt should be changed more often, because it is NOT the heavyweight championship. It is merely a stepping stone to the undisputed championship belt. To me, for a wrestler to maintain the Intercontinental Title for an absurd amount of time is saying he's not a "main-eventer", that he can't grow beyond that area of mediocrity (Remember what Shawn Michaels said about Triple H a long time ago?).

As far as RVD goes, I think he can make a pretty good champion. He's all about performance, and I find his laid-back personality entertaining, when compared to all the standard, vicious "I'm gonna beat your ass!" character types. It offers a change of pace.

WWF vs WWE
All I can say, is that even though my wife is a vegetarian and I often donate to certain "animal-friendly" groups and the Vegetarian Resource Group, I will NEVER contribute anything to the World Wildlife Fund (I refuse to call it the WWF.) after what they did to my favorite business. How necessary was that lawsuit? I mean, they're supposed to be a charitable organization dedicated to a good cause. Why must they be picky about their name? They could've changed it to anything else, and their image would've been the same, but instead they have to go against everything good in the universe and say that the WWF can't be called the WWF! I don't have any statistics, but I'd be willing to bet that most people, when they hear "WWF", they associate it with the WORLD WRESTLING FEDERATION, before they think of the World Wildlife Fund. Okay, I've bitched enough. I think I'm gonna stop my ramblings, now.

[primetime]

i should have clarified myself a bit. i like RVD. he has that "star" potential. but he doesnt look like an I-C champ like back in the day. in other words, it should be very soon, he loses the strap. he has a great wrestling style, but unfortunately he wont hold the strap long.

i wasnt a fan of the Honky Tonk Man, but you have to admit, you LOVED to hate him. you couldnt wait to see him lose. he held that title for 14 months!!!! that's why when people went after him, the I-C belt was a very prestigious thing. Randy Savage had it for a year. wasnt the Intercontinental title a MAIN EVENT match at SummerSlam before? remember Bret Hart vs British Bulldog (r.i.p.)?

what the WWF(E) needs to do, is to have some hated bad guy hold the I-C belt forever. build the bad guy up, and the title. let guys like the Rock and others chase after that guy. for example, no one likes X-pac. AT ALL. give him the belt, and have him hold on to it for a long time. but build up the angle. have guys like Rock, or Triple H or Booker T or RVD go after him. the NWO can interfere and he could win by cheating. but build up the tension so that fans cant WAIT to see him lose. then when he finally does, the I-C belt has a little more meaning. then have the good guy hold on to it, but go through hell defending it. it builds up the title. like i mentioned, when the Honky Tonk Man had the belt, i was dying to see that idiot lose. Randy Savage went after him, Brutus Beefcake, Ricky Steamboat, and Ultimate Warrior were guys who chased after him. it was exciting. they could do the same. but give it to a bad guy, then have someone like RVD win it.

they can flip flop the European, Cruiserweight, and Hardcore titles, but the I-C belt and World belt needs to stay on someone for longer periods of time.

i'm actually surprised they havent made X-pac a bigger name. everyone HATES this guy. they could really capitalize on this and build him into the biggest bad guy in a long time. why not?

[BigJim]

Originally posted by Flatfoot


WWF vs WWE
All I can say, is that even though my wife is a vegetarian and I often donate to certain "animal-friendly" groups and the Vegetarian Resource Group, I will NEVER contribute anything to the World Wildlife Fund (I refuse to call it the WWF.) after what they did to my favorite business. How necessary was that lawsuit? I mean, they're supposed to be a charitable organization dedicated to a good cause. Why must they be picky about their name? They could've changed it to anything else, and their image would've been the same, but instead they have to go against everything good in the universe and say that the WWF can't be called the WWF! I don't have any statistics, but I'd be willing to bet that most people, when they hear "WWF", they associate it with the WORLD WRESTLING FEDERATION, before they think of the World Wildlife Fund. Okay, I've bitched enough. I think I'm gonna stop my ramblings, now.

FF, I'm hearing you on FM! The World Wildlife Fun doesn't even call itself that any more! Now it's the World Wildlife Fund For Nature. So it should be the WWFFN. Bah! This group has got to be the most petty, pathetic and miserable steaming, stinking pile of monkey crap of all time!!!!! I will NEVER.....and when Jim says NEVER, he means NEVER......contribute a penny to these arseholes! As far as I'm concerned they can go bankrupt and I won't shed a tear. Fuck em!

Interesting piecve of info: The WWF was started by a certain Prince Phillip who as some of you will know is married to the Queen of England. This bloke kills more animals than the Japanese whaluing fleet! Is this a strange coincidence or is it just me?

[BigJim]

Originally posted by Flatfoot
I do remember those days when the Intercontinental Title actually meant something. Nowadays, I think it still bears some significance. Sure, it changes hands quite frequently, but how can that be avoided with such a huge roster? Also, an advantage to frequent changes is that the audience will not get bored seeing the same person win every single match. I think back to the days when Bret Hart was the Heavyweight champion for I don't even remember how long(too long in my mind, anyway), and I got so sick of seeing him. I kept wondering, "When is he going to lose? I'm sick of his stupid, pink sunglasses, his pink tights, his bland personality, and his so-called technical wrestling expertise." Nowadays, I'd be glad to see Bret Hart return, but I could not endure that period of time where he was the heavyweight champion (What was it, a year?). I seem to have strayed a little bit from the topic of I-C belt to Heavyweight belt, but I think the I-C belt should be changed more often, because it is NOT the heavyweight championship. It is merely a stepping stone to the undisputed championship belt. To me, for a wrestler to maintain the Intercontinental Title for an absurd amount of time is saying he's not a "main-eventer", that he can't grow beyond that area of mediocrity (Remember what Shawn Michaels said about Triple H a long time ago?).

I don't remember what Monsieur Higginbottom said about Senor LeVesque. What was it mate?

By the way, Bret Hart's first title reign started 6 weeks or so before the 1992 Survivor Series and ended in March the following year at Wrestlemania 9, when he lost it to Yokozuna. His second reign began a year later at Wrestlemani 10 when he defeated Yokozuna and then lost it in the following Survivor Series to Bob Backlund in the infamous "towel match." His third reign started............hey wake up you guys, this is interesing!

[Shem the Penman]

Me, I always thought that when they did the split, they should have sent the European title to one division and the IC to the other -- so while the world champ can appear on both shows, each show also has its own secondary title. As it is, the European title is practically forgotten (the last feud Regal had for it was with Spike Dudley, and that pretty much fizzled out).

Frequent title switches are part of the problem, but it's also important to note that the belts, with the exception of the undisputed championship, are rarely at the center of angles today. When was the last time anyone ever cut a promo about how much they want to be IC champ? Instead, the feuds start from personal dislike, and if the belt comes into play, it's as a way to further that dislike -- you get "I hate you, so I'm gonna beat you up and take your belt," not "I want your belt, so I'm gonna beat you up for it."

This means that it's the wrestlers who get the titles over now, not the other way. The titles only have prestige in the eyes of the fans if they're being held by a wrestler who's already popular, like RVD; in the past, the WWF could elevate a lesser-known wrestler by giving him a title, but it doesn't work that way any longer.

But at least we're no longer suffering from the belt glut of the Invasion last year, when everyone and his brother had a title....

[BigJim]

Originally posted by Shem the Penman
Me, I always thought that when they did the split, they should have sent the European title to one division and the IC to the other -- so while the world champ can appear on both shows, each show also has its own secondary title. As it is, the European title is practically forgotten (the last feud Regal had for it was with Spike Dudley, and that pretty much fizzled out).

Frequent title switches are part of the problem, but it's also important to note that the belts, with the exception of the undisputed championship, are rarely at the center of angles today. When was the last time anyone ever cut a promo about how much they want to be IC champ? Instead, the feuds start from personal dislike, and if the belt comes into play, it's as a way to further that dislike -- you get "I hate you, so I'm gonna beat you up and take your belt," not "I want your belt, so I'm gonna beat you up for it."

This means that it's the wrestlers who get the titles over now, not the other way. The titles only have prestige in the eyes of the fans if they're being held by a wrestler who's already popular, like RVD; in the past, the WWF could elevate a lesser-known wrestler by giving him a title, but it doesn't work that way any longer.

But at least we're no longer suffering from the belt glut of the Invasion last year, when everyone and his brother had a title....

The biggest joke of all is the hardcore title with it's 24/7 rule. We've had as many as 9 title changes in one night with that thing. I think they should ditch the European and Light Heavyweight titles and just keep the other three. I also think they should get rid of that crappy new world title belt and keep the old one with the golden eagle on it. It's far more recognisable and underlines the fact that a "WWF" champion was always the undisputed champion anyway.

[tkrexx]

Wo...There's a name from WAY back. When I was about 16, Mr. Patterson was tagged up with Ray "The Crippler" Stevens. At the time, they were having a long and vicious feud with The High Flyers (Greg Gagne & "Jumping" Jim Brunzell). My best pal & I double-dated to see them in Burlington, IA along with other notables including the late Andre the Giant. The Patterson/Stevens/High Flyers match was an excruciatingly long one; my friend left and returned with a coke, complaining that his ice was all one big chunk. About that time, Mr. Patterson was using the tag rope to choke out Mr. Gagne while Mr. Stevens distracted the always distractable referee. There were four city cops present, one at each corner of the ring. We were fortunate enough to be in about the sixth row. My life-long buddy, in one fluidly smooth movement, reaches into his large coke, pulls out the fist-sized ice marble, and lets fly. I'll never forget the sight of Mr. Patterson's bleach-blonde locks lurching straight up as the frigid missle bounced solidly off his cranium, at least 15 feet into the air. Down to one knee went Mr. Patterson. I'll bet he still has a headache. The nearest cop turned to glower directly at ME. I looked at my buddy, and he was turned around looking behind him, as if to locate the rapscallion responsible. After that the entire auditorium began launching ice, wadded soda cups, doughnuts, etc. into the ring. This behavior is acceptable in wrestling events today, but back then we were lucky they didn't stop the match post haste. (And REAL lucky Mr. Patterson didn't see where that ice ball came from...)

Rxx

[areenactor]

but what is the light heavy weight belt, and who has it???
i also hate the nwo, and all the bull shite cheating!
the late allience was bad enough, but the cheating has gotten way to prominent. i rarely get to see a match any more that doesn't have cheating, and i'm quickly becoming fed up with the whole show. that's why i like guys like the rock, and rvd. they seem to be above that.
and where the devil is kane?
steve

[Shem the Penman]

The light heavyweight title and the WCW cruiserweight title were combined into one belt, which is currently held by Jamie Noble IIRC. (And I wouldn't want the cruiserweight belt ditched, especially not with Rey Mysterio coming in. Guys like Mysterio, Tajiri, Kidman, Crash, Noble, and the Hurricane, and so on, are too talented to waste them just playing handballs for the heavyweights.)

24/7 rule aside, the hardcore belt hasn't been much more than a joke since Mick Foley, since few people really want to work a match with anything more hardcore than tinfoil garbage cans and such. RVD had a good run with it last year, but that was mostly just an excuse for him to be able to use a chair in the ring without getting DQ'd.

Kane's recuperating from a bicep injury. He should be back in a month or two, I believe.