#notips movement!

As some of you may or may not know, I'm heavily into serious bodybuilding and a few of my bro's and I had a revelation when we were shredding our lats at the gym: Why do we tip someone for just doing their job, which consists of handing us a plate of food or bringing us a round of drinks?

It barely counts as real work, so we've formed a FB page and held some events with smashing success.

Our group is called "Bodybuilders Against Tipping"
https://www.facebook.com/bodybuildersagainsttipping

There has been a lot of backlash from the service industry, but that's understandable when you create an important movement.
One of our leaders likes to call himself a "modern day Rosa Parks" which I find both hilarious and true.

In just a few months we have amassed nearly 2,000 group likes and our momentum is gaining almost as much mass as my pecs after a superset of flies.

Some info from our FB page:

About
As bodybuilders we are uniting and letting it be known that tipping should be abolished. Serving food and drinks does not warrant a tip. Anyone can do this
Description
It is time for tipping to cease. It takes zero skill to serve food and drinks. If anything we should be tipping people that maintain traffic lights, elevators and keep are roads safe. They are the real workers of this country and you dont EVER see them complaining about not getting tipped!

Only lazy people think they are entitled for tips for doing THEIR JOB!

Join the movement!
Sign every receipt with this: #notips

You do know a lot of waiters and waitresses do not make minimum wage right? The tips help them.

This thread can't be serious - or can it?

Do you go back to the same restaurant several times?
If so, check your food for spit, piss, or shit when you get the same waiter again.

LOL, I'd feel sorry for any waiter who pulled that on a body builder.

/fit/ plz go

C'mon man

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Try applying for a job as a waiter and see how much they make... after that i strongly hope you reconsider your no tip stand!!! minimum wage is hard enough to live on but waiter /waitress wages w/o tips is horrible!!!!

Has anyone here actually looked at that page?

I guess I shouldn't be surprised at people taking this seriously, but I still am...just a little. Did no one read the bit where these guys were doing pull-ups in a restaurant bathroom while the waitresses cheered them on? I'm sure that really happened.

I'm going to comment here.. about the topic..

In New York, and I know most other places as well, it is expected, and understood, that tipping will happen in certain situations. Here, we tip not only waiters and waitresses when eating out, but also food delivery people from call in places, for supermarket delivery, cab drivers both NYC and livery, etc.

Someone also mentioned the issue of most waiters and service people earning minimum wage. I was taught this.. by.. a teacher when I was very young, that most servers depend on tips to supplement their minimum wage income.

Also, if you are a "Regular" at certain places, the staff will get to know you, and treat you well, if you remember them with good tips.

Additionally, in certain situations.,. such as business.,. it looks good for one's character to leave good tips. I went out to a post meeting party to a bar with some agents a few weeks ago. Not only were we taking turns paying for the drinks, but everyone was leaving good tips for their beers, sodas, and whatever else we were drinking.

Finally..

I have a friend.. who is originally from a different city,. but now lives here. Many years ago he came to visit me, when I lived in NJ. He took a NYC cab, and for whatever reason, didn't tip. He was only in his early 20s at the time, and told me the driver yelled at him to never take his cab again.

I can see the idea.. of "Varying the tip" if someone has especially slow service.. or a very rude waiter.. etc. However, in the best places in NYC, even sometimes where a wait staff may be paid a little better then the average restaurant, waiters expect not only the usual 15% tip, but most often 20%, figuring that if their clientele can afford to eat there, they will get excellent service, and should tip better.

Sorry, I just cant see this.

Tipping is an interesting custom that dates back to the 1600's or so. In bars it was not uncommon to feel that a server deserved to enjoy a drink (or tipple) with customers, and they would pay for one. Given that communities were small, and close knit, this was a cultural activity that was seen as a polite way to thank a server for their efforts. As time passed the tradition spread to other areas, and worked its way through North American, and specifically American culture.

In the US, service people were often the children and family members of the owner of the business, and they worked, basically for free, pitching in to help the family business succeed. People came to tip, to recognize that these folks deserved some form of payment for their work, once again, because communities were close, and folks knew each other. You gave your neighbors kid a tip for bringing you dinner, and odds were in turn they would buy some penny candy, or some kitchen paper from your store. It was part of a cycle that communities had.

Low pay became institutionalized for service workers as the 20th century moved alone, based on the family restaurant concept that held that if waitstaff made minimum wage, these oft struggling businesses may not survive. So pay scales well below minimum were set up, sometimes as much as 2/3rds lower. Tipping became the recognized way these folks would make rent and so forth, in return for providing superior service to patrons, and being their agent in disputes with the kitchen. In this way both restaurants, and their staff were able to prosper mutually and grow.

In our 21st century world, a lot of the connectivity has been lost. Most people don't consider the situation of those that serve them as they pass thru their days. Though they demand impeccable instant service, and invisibility from them. Wait staff still makes less then minimum wage, and given that minimum is not even a living wage any longer, they have a wide gap to make up via tips to manage getting they things. The average service worker is young, putting them self thru school in hopes of a better job in the future, and trying to cover all the bills that implies. They work hard and take a lot more abuse and ill treatment then you might imagine if you've never stood in their shoes, for less money then you can buy a meal at McDonalds for.

Your bill at the end of the meal pays for the food and drink you received, and the basic service of having it delivered to you correctly and warm. It also covers the kitchen staff, the folks that clean the dishes and so forth. Your Tip is the 'tax' you pay to be seen by your server as not just another body they have to move through. It pays for being remembered and treated special. It pays for letting you order off menu. It eventually even pays for an honest connection with another human that enjoys seeing you sit in their area.

Now all of these things may have no value to you. Perhaps you are happy with the vac-packed food that is microwaved in the back and brought to you. Perhaps you really have no honest care about the person who is working for you, thru the restaurant as a proxy. But then we've become an inward looking culture where the bottom line of 'what it in it for me' tends to be the first question, and 'what is in it for my community' is a distant 5th or never.

You've earned the privilege of being able to eat out because you make a good wage. And you certainly have the right to enjoy that experience. But all the people that serve you are often not that lucky, and can never eat out, or grab a beer at the pub, or such. And giving them a tip is a nice way to share your own good fortune, and improve a fellow persons lot a tiny bit. After all, they are basically working for you on loan for a tiny bit. And wouldn't you want to be treated that way if you were doing the job?

Myriads

Extremely well written, as always, by the Tzar, and I agree with everything he said.

I believe tipping is a great thing, it gives the people who serve us extra money off the books and its a way of saying thank you for doing a great job. What I've not become a fan of is having the tip added into the meal at say 18% gratuity for example. I have no issue tipping but let me decide how much a person should get based on how they served me. otherwise I'm all for giving a good tip for well done service.

Angel_2 said:

I believe tipping is a great thing, it gives the people who serve us extra money off the books and its a way of saying thank you for doing a great job. What I've not become a fan of is having the tip added into the meal at say 18% gratuity for example. I have no issue tipping but let me decide how much a person should get based on how they served me. otherwise I'm all for giving a good tip for well done service.

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^^THIS^^...is something that bothers me, as well!!! In my experience, it's usually done for parties of 6, 8 or 10 or more to a table. I think it also "gives incentive" to the "lazier" members of a wait staff, to keep being slow and discourteous!!! "Why should I perform any better...my tip is already set??!!" I know for parties of that size, sometimes they will employ 2 or more servers...but still, I think a "set gratuity" is just taking extra cash from the patrons...in some cases!!!

But otherwise tipping is just plain THE RIGHT THING TO DO!!! My philosophy has always been...start at 15% (which at most places is standard)...and then the server "earns" their way up to 20%...or "loses" their way down to 10%...depending on how their service turns out.
But they still deserve something!!! (unless they're just plain RUDE!!!) In that case...they don't deserve a tip...and I wouldn't ever go back there again!!!

That's my two cents!!!

If there was ever a more wrong thing to crusade for...

Since the group revolves around bodybuilders, does this sentiment in any way stem from the idea of food as fuel? Do you feel that food is not something to be enjoyed in a relaxed, pleasant, and/or fun environment where a person is getting paid to take care of you?

Ordering fast food is a more 'transactional' activity, where tipping is not necessary, as the employees are earning at least minimum wage, set by the government, and the assembly line system is in place to get you out as quickly as possible. However, sit - down restaurants are marketing to a different audience, who expect a certain modicum of service in addition to merely providing a paid meal. Service workers are paid to take care of customers, and they are NOT paid minimum wage. Tipped employees are paid at an hourly rate that is substantially less than minimum wage, because it is assumed that they will make up the difference in tips, for providing good service. It's truly a merit - based pay system. Unfortunately, they run into situations like this, where they will serve people who have no understanding or appreciation for the service provided, and who will stiff them, no matter how good a job they do. This will lead to a negative effect on customer service, in general, and then everyone loses.

To say that servers have no skills worth paying for undermines the value of good customer service. This society is becoming increasingly transactional, as people can't glance up from their gadgets long enough to make eye contact, smile, and communicate with the person trying to help them. One element of the value proposition that servers provide is human connection. If you don't need or want that service, just order carryout, or grab the blender, protein, and creatine powder and go back to shreddin' the lats. You'd be freeing up a seat for someone who hopefully WANTS good service in a sit - down restaurant environment, with friendly waitstaff, who they have no problem tipping.

I understand that not all service workers are awesome, and there are some who aren't worth the hourly wage they're making--I do expect someone to do a good job when I pay for service. Now, if you were arguing to change the wages of service workers to AT LEAST minimum wage and eliminating tips, that wouldn't be entirely awful. However, I would argue that removing tips from the equation will have a negative economic impact on customer service, as it would remove the incentive to do a good job, and restaurants would become as transactional as McDonald's.

Okay, I'll ask the obvious question. Is there a nexus between being a body builder and being anti-tipping? I'm not sure what one has to do with the other. Which is one reason the logic behind this movement seems paper thin and shouldn't be treated as a serious undertaking. Just read the Facebook page, it's not like a bunch of Rhodes Scholars leading the charge here.

General Zod said:

You do know a lot of waiters and waitresses do not make minimum wage right? The tips help them.

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Yes General, I am aware.
If they choose to work in a profession that does not even pay min. wage, that doesn't mean I have to give them extra money (TIPS) to make up for it.
It's their choice as an unskilled worker.

All they do is carry food or drinks (that someone else made) from one point to another. Usually only a few feet.
That doesn't deserve any extra $$$.
Think about it.

NCten said:

Okay, I'll ask the obvious question. Is there a nexus between being a body builder and being anti-tipping? I'm not sure what one has to do with the other. Which is one reason the logic behind this movement seems paper thin and shouldn't be treated as a serious undertaking. Just read the Facebook page, it's not like a bunch of Rhodes Scholars leading the charge here.

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I'll answer your obvious question with another question: Is there a nexus between Mothers and Drunk Drivers?
I'll spell it out for ya. We pump our glutes, quads, and delts off to gain mass, then we devour a power lunch.
The connection is obvious to the devoted.
Hard work = rewards and mass gains.

Walking a few feet to drop off a plate of chicken nachos does not qualify as hard work.
Anyone can do that.
Take your $3 / hour. That's all it's worth. Not a penny extra.

coldneck said:

I'll answer your obvious question with another question: Is there a nexus between Mothers and Drunk Drivers?
I'll spell it out for ya. We pump our glutes, quads, and delts off to gain mass, then we devour a power lunch.
The connection is obvious to the devoted.
Hard work = rewards and mass gains.

Walking a few feet to drop off a plate of chicken nachos does not qualify as hard work.
Anyone can do that.
Take your $3 / hour. That's all it's worth. Not a penny extra.

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Speaking as a mother, I'll answer your question. Drunk drivers account for too many deaths and accidents on the road. Our kids are out on the roads and anything we can do to reduce the risk of them being killed we will do. It's called perpetuation of the human race, which is far more admirable than a group of stingy meatheads not paying other people for a service provided to them.

milagros317 said:

Do you go back to the same restaurant several times?
If so, check your food for spit, piss, or shit when you get the same waiter again.

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Yeah, that's classy. and highly Illegal!
We have 2 lawyers in our group who would sue them back to the stone age, pal.
It's never happened and it never will.
That's a pissed off servers fantasy.


Think about it: the ditzy waitresses carry the food a few feet.
The brain-dead cooks cook it. (Yeah, they have enough time time to take a shit on my burger.)

Ne'er the 2 shall meet.
And have you ever noticed the turnover at these places?!?

I have a suggestion for you. The next time you visit New York City, have a meal at Umberto's Clam House, which is at 132 Mulberry Street in lower Manhattan. They are open from 11am to past midnight seven days a week, so you can have lunch or dinner. Leave no tip, nothing at all. Make sure that you tell the waiter that he deserves no tip because he is doing a job that any moron can do. Go ahead and do this, and make sure to tell the waiter exactly why he is getting no tip.

Then go back again the next day. Bring your lawyer friend. I would be very interested to know what results.

Coldneck,

What is it that you do for a living that makes you such an authority on the subject? Are you so fucking special that you think anyone who works in the service industry is beneath you? Do you really think people choose to work in restaurants, coffee shops, bars, etc because they are too lazy and unskilled to find other work? Let me go ahead and save you the trouble of thinking, since that's probably too strenuous an activity for you, and say the answer is a resounding NO.

I manage a bakery and a coffee shop and supervise a diverse group of people; A middle aged woman, who was laid off from a well paying job during the recession who is saving up money to start her own consulting firm. A single mother of three who works two jobs to feed her children and save money for their education. A guy who is an aspiring artist. Several college and graduate students in varying fields. Bakers, who are there because they love to bake and are fucking good at it. None of them are lazy, skilless or worthless as you stated. Guess what? All of them make tips. Not because they are pitiful and desperate, but because they work hard to provide a service to our customers, and our customers, in return, show decency and compassion by sparing a little extra money.

So again. What is it that makes you so much more special?

whorf007 said:

Try applying for a job as a waiter and see how much they make... after that i strongly hope you reconsider your no tip stand!!! minimum wage is hard enough to live on but waiter /waitress wages w/o tips is horrible!!!!

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Dude, I would never sink that low. I have some dignity & class.

If the non-skilled & un-qualified amongst us want to take a sub-minimum wage job and BEG for the gratuity of others for providing minimal service (handing me a plate of food, filling my glass of water, etc) then so be it.

I will treat them as the servants they are.

Bottom Line: They don't work hard enough to deserve extra money. Especially when they BEG / EXPECT it.

This is ENTITLEMENT off the charts!

This is one of the funniest threads I have ever read because there is no way any of this can be true.

@ Flatfoot:

You know, and this will probably surprise you ... I think this is a pretty solid post.
But it's really long and I'm about to score with a 8/10 hottie (and kinda drunk too) so Ima hold off on commenting on your well-thought-out post, until ... um yeah.