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Our fetish and potential abuse

K

kcantankerous

4th Level Red Feather
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
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Hello All,

I don't want to make waves. I have thought about this issue off and on for awhile now. Could some of these fantasies truly be harbingers for potential abuse. Such as restraining, seemingly against someone's will and causing them potential pain. I have chatted with folks who are ticklish, but absolutely hate being tickled. We have a number of folks on this form. I have met some of you in person at some point and are friends with others in the vanilla world. I don't mean to cast aspersions, just want to get some thoughts.

Thanks,

K
 
BDSM, of which tickle torture is an offshoot (whether most BDSM enthusiasts want to admit it or not) revolves heavily around trust. Safety first.
 
So some of the "fantasy" scenarios are just that? Speaking about some of the written stories and artwork. Specifically of the non-consensual nature? Put another way, if I told someone that I had a tickle fetish and they looked it up online what would they surmise?

ComfortEagle, thanks for your response.
 
kcantankerous said:
So some of the "fantasy" scenarios are just that? Speaking about some of the written stories and artwork. Specifically of the non-consensual nature? Put another way, if I told someone that I had a tickle fetish and they looked it up online what would they surmise?

ComfortEagle, thanks for your response.
Click to expand...

Well, first off, you'd need to be absolutely sure that the person you're telling this to won't get weirded out in any way. That's how I do it. So far I've only told one very close friend of mine about my little kink, and I only did so because I was tired of keeping this skeleton in my closet my entire life away from everyone. At first I was hesitant to tell him, fearing his reaction, but after a while I thought that it was ok to tell him, because we've known each other for years and luckily for me he's as open-minded and tolerant as I am. And when I told him, he was totally cool about it. He said: "There are far creepier fetishes, yours is one of the more innocent ones."

And secondly, regarding the non-consensual bit, thankfully that's just fiction. Stories, artwork, even clips with non-consensual tickling are 99% of the time acts with willing models. And again, tickling is harmless. You'd be surprised by the amount of fetishes that exist in this world, some as old as mankind.

So if you're going to open up to somebody about this, make sure it's somebody you've known for more than a few years and completely trust that person with your secrets.
 
There are some into the "non-con" scene... and maybe to a point, it could be abuse yes. But even in that scene I have a hard time believing those folks would take it as far as hurting someone just for their kicks (maybe I'm thinking too highly of all members lol). But, at least for me, if I say "Oh gee, the idea of being 'kidnapped' and restrained" might mean that I dont KNOW ahead of time that it'll happen but have full trust in the fact that whomever it's arranged with will take care of me (obviously hypothetical since the husband's the only one that gets that right).... I know at NEST they've got the scenarios that play out as such, but again it's a controlled environment where you're trusting people to keep you safe.

If you told someone you had a fetish-- then without explaining what all YOU SPECIFICALLY find enjoyable about it- that could lead to issues yes. There are so many factors involved with tickling that when one actually tells someone they're into it- it's best to fully explain what makes it enjoyable. If you set someone loose here without any know-how of the fetish there's stories and pictures that would probably scare them. Communication is a lovely thing- really it is.
 
A girlfriend of mine went on here at one point. She said she found it confronting and intimidating. Guess it is.
 
Yes. As I understand it, most sensible people will not buy or read books, or go to the movies, or watch TV anymore, because there is sex and violence in them, so those industries are obviously rife with murderers and rapists and should be shunned and avoided.

Come to think of it, I've heard people talking about murder and rape; so they must be potential harbingers as well. So its probably best to avoid people at all costs. Just to be safe.
 
Even if the hardcore tickling fantasies are harbingers for abuse... I think people should only be held accountable for what their actions are and not by what they fantasize about. Trying to censor their fantasies in one way or another is just thought police which I am completely against.

I have quite a lot of twisted fantasies, but at the end of the day I can hardly see myself tickling someone against her will, so in my case at least I don't think there is a link.
 
kcantankerous said:
Could some of these fantasies truly be harbingers for potential abuse.
Click to expand...

Certainly! Not likely though. They're called fantasies for a reason. It is a little perturbing, though - if a person, particularly if they're a 'ler, is preoccupied with those kinds of thoughts. Still. Each to their own.
 
Whether fantasy leads to abuse is indeed a (Wait for it!) ticklish topic.<br>
Do I believe that the uninitiated might be "weirded out" if they visit here? You bet.<br>
It hardly follows, however, that indulging in fantasies of restraint and tickling involving adults truly harms anyone.<br>
If such exercises in imagination were dangerous, creators of torturous fantasies from Poe to King would be on wanted posters in post offices rather than be celebrated for their art and importance to human psyches.<br>
Flights of fancy are quite distinct from actual abuse.
 
Trust is key. Never play (at tickle torture or any other kind of BDSM) unless you fully trust your play partners.
 
milagros317 said:
Trust is key. Never play (at tickle torture or any other kind of BDSM) unless you fully trust your play partners.
Click to expand...

Affirmative,... and to what Mils is saying, I'd like to add the need to avoid making overly optimistic assumptions about partners. One wrong guess can backfire catastrophically.
 
Thanks for the comments and sarcasm. Decided to see what folks thought about the situation.
 
There are obviously many shades of gray (no pun intended) on the non-con question, and I find the absolutists on this to be either just silly, or else working out a former trauma that clouds their analysis with emotion. Non-con isn't an all-or-nothing, white-or-black question.

If you just walk up behind you sister without warning and poke her in the side, and she jumps and you walk away, that was a non-consensual act, but no one in their right mind would truly consider it a crime. Same if you tied up your girlfriend for purposes of sex, and then sprung a mini-tickling session on her first. (I've done this to different women several times without warning -- if they truly hate it I stop.) The real problem situation with non-con, as I see it, would be if the 'lee is truly feeling tortured and hates it, (which is obvious to anyone who isn't Asbergers), that person truly screams for you to stop, but instead you just keep going and going and going. That's abuse.

These other scenarios, where the 'lee is told it's a bondage shoot then gets tickled, is perfectly fine in my book provided they don't sound like they're actually traumatized, terrified or abused. After all, it's just tickling.
 
This ain't rocket science. People have fantasies and they remain in that realm - fantasies. Some consenting adults play out their fantasies. Then there are the few who manifest their fantasies on others without their consent. These are the people when caught who go to jail or are otherwise confined or restricted in their ability to. Interact with the rest of us. Just about anything you can name has the potential for abuse. The greater the potential the more likely there will be laws or other societal restrictions to reduce that potential abuse. Common sense usually prevails. Ain't rocket science.
 
brotherted said:

"Same if you tied up your girlfriend for purposes of sex, and then sprung a mini-tickling session on her first. (I've done this to different women several times without warning -- if they truly hate it I stop.)"

I've done this to many women and as he stated, "if they truly hate it I stop." But, on the flip-side, if done right and with many breaks, it can lead to awesome sex! I've even had some of these woman return and ask me to do it again! Using restraint in how you tickle them and constantly monitor their reactions to make sure you don't traumatize them, it can turn out well. But the first indication that it's not going well, it's time to stop. Mixing their pleasure with the tickling helps tremendously too in keeping them tolerant of being tickled.
 
It depends on how one defines abuse. Decades ago it meant physical. Now days thanks to an over abundance of lawyers and psycho-analysts, "abuse" can range anywhere from knocking out a few of the Mrs' teeth to not buying little Tommy that Power Ranger set he wanted so badly when he was 6. In short, the definition of "abuse" has been sorely abused. I wouldn't regard a poke in the sides or the armpit abuse by any standard, but I would agree that prolonged tickling of somebody who is significantly ticklish certainly qualifies.

Whether we want to admit it or not. Abuse is at the heart of most of the desires expressed on this forum. I've watched many clips, or at least their trailers. I've never seen one that depicts a willing recipient. Somebody is trapped and restrained, and can't escape. Somebody else takes cruel advantage of that helplessness and inflicts tickle torture on her or him. It's cruel, exploitative, and inhumane. But those are the things that float many boats on this forum.

Many of us have difficulty accepting that we could like something so cruel. So we go about the tedious task of rationalization to ease our consciences. We tickle "consensually," with "permission." We have "gatherings" where people go voluntarily to participate. We dress it all up and call it "fantasy" which has become the catch-phrase that excuses any and all malicious desires.

Same say that indulging the fantasy in this way is healthy. That it provides an outlet to express our brand of cruelty in a way that minimizes the impact on our society. Others say that sooner or later, indulging these fetishes may cause them escalate to a point in which simple fantasy won't cut it. They want to bring these scenarios into the real world.

Whether any of that is true, who can say? I don't imagine that there are many on this forum who go about restraining people and inflicting tickle torture on them. But that concept is at the heart of what makes many here "tick."
 
kcantankerous said:
Hello All,

I don't want to make waves. I have thought about this issue off and on for awhile now. Could some of these fantasies truly be harbingers for potential abuse. Such as restraining, seemingly against someone's will and causing them potential pain. I have chatted with folks who are ticklish, but absolutely hate being tickled. We have a number of folks on this form. I have met some of you in person at some point and are friends with others in the vanilla world. I don't mean to cast aspersions, just want to get some thoughts.

Thanks,

K
Click to expand...

The key lies in the phrase, "seemingly against someone's will". The people who actually participate in these kinds of scenarios do it with the consent of their partner.
Don't worry about the ones who claim to be doing otherwise. It's just fantasy for them.
 
I don't think that there is anything inherent in an interest in tickling that creates an elevated risk of abuse. First, stop calling it a fetish. That's a clinical term that has "dysfunction" included in the definition. Second, how much abuse occurs in "conventional, vanilla" relationships? Lots, it's a pretty dirty baseline.

Myriads addressed this somewhat in the closed thread below in response to somewhat who made the unsupported assertion that anyone who had an interest in tickling was the victim himself or herself of some kind of tickling abuse as a child. Myriads didn't buy it. And I don't either. First, where are the data, analysis, etc. O/w this is just supposition.

Decide what the potential for abuse with an interest in sex is generally, run the null hypothesis, "an interest in tickling has no elevated risk of abuse compared to a general, combined or mainstream interest in sex" and disprove it. Or just look at the lack of data like I do and agree anyone can think anything they want, doesn't make it true.
 
Talamantes said:
...First, stop calling it a fetish. That's a clinical term that has "dysfunction" included in the definition.
Click to expand...

Just as an aside, I think the word "Fetish", like all words and languages do, is undergoing a fluid perceptual change in meaning. I believe in the last decade or so, the common usage of the word has a more upbeat populist tone than perhaps its Webster or early 20th century psycho-babble negative connotation, which in turn was a corruption of the original meaning of Fetish; an object of worship imbued with supernatural power.

In any event, the word "Fetish" is cute and fuzzy, and rolls off the tongue infinitely less clinically than "Paraphilia"... which makes me think of a doctor's office and getting a shot. Yuk.
 
Abuse can be anything if it's against somebodies Will. Why everybody has it in for this Will guy I'll never understand. Capt. Picard was always shooting phasers and torpedoes at him. "Fire at will!" Poor Will :(
 
I think it's a good question and worth raising. As many of us know, fantasies can expand and become increasingly....elaborate....in nature. It's also very possible for someone's mind to become more and more fixated on something in an unhealthy way. Most of us are able to keep in check the difference between having wild fantasies and knowing what would actually be appropriate in real life. However, I do think it's good for all of us just to check ourselves from time to time, because often our version of reality begins to shift slowly and over time.

An example would be beginning to hold a belief that when someone near you exposes her soles, she actually wants to be tickled. Who knows - maybe there is some subconscious aspect of that for a lot of people - and I know that I certainly do often feel that when a woman is exposing her feet to me that she IS teasing in some way. But let's say this belief becomes really strong and ingrained and someone then acts it out in an inappropriate or harmful way - then, yes, your fantasy has led to a distortion of reality and caused harm.

Maybe a more extreme and frightening example would be kidnapping scenarios or things like that.

I don't think it's very common and most of us have a fairly good grip on reality, but there is the potential, and I think that's why we hear about these things like people breaking into someone's house and tickling their feet while they're sleeping. That was probably once nothing more than a fantasy.
 
Fantasy is fantasy....so long as you either role play it with someone in the bedroom (or wherever). My whole feet tickle fetish revolves around non-consent/hardcore tickle torture fantasy. I'm not into the playful stuff (that seems to have dominated 95% of the tickle fetish video market now days) - that's NOT my fetish!

I am a sadistic loony toon in what gets me off and turns me on in regards to the tickle fetish, however, I would NEVER EVER in a million years kidnap someone and do it "for real" so to speak, and anyone who could or has is a sick fuck and should be shot, jailed or both.


Same concept (although not sexual fetish stuff like tickling) as when you have that fantasy about killing someone you really hate. If you are a decent person and sane, you would never do it, it's just a fantasy of another nature.
 
I think it honestly depends on if you got someone willing or not. I mean technically yeah it could look as if it is abuse, people screaming, asking to be let out, etc. So i would think yeah it can be, cuz there are some who take it too far don't know morals or boundaries for these fantasies.
 
C.A.B. said:
Just as an aside, I think the word "Fetish", like all words and languages do, is undergoing a fluid perceptual change in meaning. I believe in the last decade or so, the common usage of the word has a more upbeat populist tone than perhaps its Webster or early 20th century psycho-babble negative connotation, which in turn was a corruption of the original meaning of Fetish; an object of worship imbued with supernatural power.

In any event, the word "Fetish" is cute and fuzzy, and rolls off the tongue infinitely less clinically than "Paraphilia"... which makes me think of a doctor's office and getting a shot. Yuk.
Click to expand...

While I agree with you, I wasn't thinking about "paraphilia" as an alternative which is just as negative. I prefer "kink" or "interest" which are much more positive or neutral and don't leave the potential for misunderstanding that "fetish" does. Fetish still commands a negative connotation. I just think we aren't doing ourselves a favor calling an interest in tickling a "fetish".
 
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