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Dilema at Work

G

GirlWhoLikes2Laugh

4th Level Orange Feather
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
2,769
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36
A while back at work, to make a long story short, they found out I have Asperger's Syndrome which is a mild form of Autism as a result of some customers having complained about me being rude to them. At the time, I didn't realize I was being rude to them. As a result, I got a letter about my condition from my psychiatrist a the time, explaining my condition. Now, you would think they would think it's okay if I feel it's necessary to tell the customer that I have this condition but they don't want me to, even though it's MY CONDITION AND I FEEL I HAVE THE RIGHT TO TELL THE CUSTOMER WHAT I HAVE. Anyhow, I even said to them that if a customer does feel the need to complain about me that they have my permission to tell them but they're even not sure about that.

Look, let me just say that more and more children are being diagnosed all the time with Asperger's and as a society, we need to start accepting them more because those who are able, need to work just like everyone else. I mean we have the distinction in society that we don't have the natural ability to recognize body language like neurotypicals do (non-Autistic people). Learning body language for us is like trying to learn a foreign language. Imagine if everyone else spoke Chinese but some people didn't for what ever reason. One of my coworkers thinks that my having Asperger's is an excuse but that's ridiculous because you wouldn't go to Stevie Wonder and say his blindness is an excuse for him not being able to drive. However, it didn't stop him from being successful in the music business.

Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks.
 
I don't think it's appropriate for the customer to know anything personal about you. It's not their business, and it's not why they're there. That's just my opinion.
 
GirlWhoLikes2Laugh said:
A while back at work, to make a long story short, they found out I have Asperger's Syndrome which is a mild form of Autism as a result of some customers having complained about me being rude to them. At the time, I didn't realize I was being rude to them. As a result, I got a letter about my condition from my psychiatrist a the time, explaining my condition. Now, you would think they would think it's okay if I feel it's necessary to tell the customer that I have this condition but they don't want me to, even though it's MY CONDITION AND I FEEL I HAVE THE RIGHT TO TELL THE CUSTOMER WHAT I HAVE. Anyhow, I even said to them that if a customer does feel the need to complain about me that they have my permission to tell them but they're even not sure about that.

Look, let me just say that more and more children are being diagnosed all the time with Asperger's and as a society, we need to start accepting them more because those who are able, need to work just like everyone else. I mean we have the distinction in society that we don't have the natural ability to recognize body language like neurotypicals do (non-Autistic people). Learning body language for us is like trying to learn a foreign language. Imagine if everyone else spoke Chinese but some people didn't for what ever reason. One of my coworkers thinks that my having Asperger's is an excuse but that's ridiculous because you wouldn't go to Stevie Wonder and say his blindness is an excuse for him not being able to drive. However, it didn't stop him from being successful in the music business.
Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks.
Click to expand...

Well, you and your employer are both in tough positions. Your condition makes it harder for you to avoid seeming rude to customers, but you're in a customer service position, so it can conceivably hurt the employer's business.
ADA requires that an employer make reasonable accommodations for you to be able to do your job, but if your job is dealing with customers, I'm not sure what accommodation they could make to fix that.
Is there a different position that has less customer interaction?

The Stevie Wonder analogy isn't really accurate, though. His job wasn't to drive a car.
If your job is customer service, and customer service, by nature, requires you to be polite, that's a problem you and your employer have to work out.
 
The question is, "What constitutes reasonable accommodations?" I don't think it's inherently a part of having Aspberger's to have to tell everyone that you do. My ex-girlfriend has it, and quite the opposite to you, she was scared to death of people finding out she had it, so much so, that she even hid it from her employer for several years. She was afraid she'd be fired for having it.... and she worked for a non-profit organization that provided services for people with autism! Now, I know that not every autistic person has quite the same symptoms, yet I can't imagine that your seemingly compulsive need to announce your condition to everyone is neurologically implored by the condition itself.

As a cashier, it may be helpful for you to remember that people are there to get stuff, not chat it up and socialize with the employees. When someone is getting their items scanned, they just want to pay and get out. Since social cues and norms are a foreign language for you, I would recommend keeping it primarily to the typical things like, "How's it going?" If it's Thursday or Friday, politely ask if they have any plans for the weekend. On a Monday, ask them how was their weekend, or any day you can ask, how's the day going for them. The purpose of a conversation while checking out is twofold: killing time so the customer doesn't feel like they've been there as long as they have, and to provide a friendly atmosphere. Making the customer feel awkward by talking about your medical condition in an unsolicited manner (that is, when no one was asking) does neither of those things. Let the customer talk about their personal life first, and your response should be related to that.

In short, if the customers aren't asking about it, you shouldn't tell them. Their customer experience won't be enriched by knowing that about you.
 
TMF Jeff said:
I don't think it's appropriate for the customer to know anything personal about you. It's not their business, and it's not why they're there. That's just my opinion.
Click to expand...


This. I know you want people to understand... and have people feel more comfortable. But... as long as management understands your issue... that's all you need to be concerned with. The customers aren't paying you.. your boss is.
 
Basically, what everyone else has said.

I'd also like to point out that in my experience, even if you only tell one or two people about your condition, word still gets out with this kind of thing. This may be positive in your case.
 
GirlWhoLikes2Laugh said:
A while back at work, to make a long story short, they found out I have Asperger's Syndrome which is a mild form of Autism as a result of some customers having complained about me being rude to them. At the time, I didn't realize I was being rude to them. As a result, I got a letter about my condition from my psychiatrist a the time, explaining my condition. Now, you would think they would think it's okay if I feel it's necessary to tell the customer that I have this condition but they don't want me to, even though it's MY CONDITION AND I FEEL I HAVE THE RIGHT TO TELL THE CUSTOMER WHAT I HAVE. Anyhow, I even said to them that if a customer does feel the need to complain about me that they have my permission to tell them but they're even not sure about that.

Look, let me just say that more and more children are being diagnosed all the time with Asperger's and as a society, we need to start accepting them more because those who are able, need to work just like everyone else. I mean we have the distinction in society that we don't have the natural ability to recognize body language like neurotypicals do (non-Autistic people). Learning body language for us is like trying to learn a foreign language. Imagine if everyone else spoke Chinese but some people didn't for what ever reason. One of my coworkers thinks that my having Asperger's is an excuse but that's ridiculous because you wouldn't go to Stevie Wonder and say his blindness is an excuse for him not being able to drive. However, it didn't stop him from being successful in the music business.

Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks.
Click to expand...

My perspective; learning disabilities are a great advocate for education (except everything these days is about a psychiatrist/therapist/pill cocktails), not so much for "real life". Reason being if you don't make the grade in a job, to most employers, you're out, whereas you'll repeat in school (most times). I can imagine it's difficult being trained to follow one set of instructions while a customer is asking for something different; trust me, I worked in an office for a tire company dealing with store managers over the phone with the mindset of "make the sale and stab everyone in the back that slows you down."

The point I'm trying to reach is working with people, where there's a variety of outcomes to deal with, might be strenuous in the long term. You might want to see about your psychiatrist about how to get opportunities that might be better for you than cashier-ing.

Lastly, Having an employer know of and understand your condition is fine, but don't let it define you; there's always a way to learn from our problems.
 
As long as you are sticking to the usual script of "Hi, how's your day, did you find everything OK, is there anything I can help you with, thank you etc" there should be no room for needing to interpret body language I feel like. There should also not be much opportunity to be rude either, especially if you are remembering please and thank you. If there is a customer complaint, there is usually a set way of handling it - Acknowledge the issue, Apologize, and Act to remedy it. In your case, referring the customer to the manager whenever there is a complaint, may be a better choice.

Some people will think you're rude for no reason other than they are having a bad day. This happens to everyone in customer service at some point. As long as your employer knows about your condition, there's no reason to make that information known to customers.
 
My daughter (29 yrs old) is in the Spectrum, and has been working as a bagger at one of the local grocery stores for 10 yrs now. Not the same as being a cashier, but an awful lot of customer interaction. Also a continuing struggle to teach her of normal social ques. Thing is, being in a big city like Atlanta, we have a lot more people with such conditions; and, there are a lot working at the local groceries. The regular customers have come to know these folks and their disability, and have no problem with it. It's only the occasional "I'm so damned important" person that does. And, that's life - us "normal" people have to deal with the ilks of them too. At least your managers are sympathetic to your situation (otherwise you would have been let go long ago). And, it is a Federal requirement that management has to do everything possible to help you (I'm not management, but gotta go thru the general training on this yearly).
 
Wolf said:
Well, you and your employer are both in tough positions. Your condition makes it harder for you to avoid seeming rude to customers, but you're in a customer service position, so it can conceivably hurt the employer's business.
ADA requires that an employer make reasonable accommodations for you to be able to do your job, but if your job is dealing with customers, I'm not sure what accommodation they could make to fix that.
Is there a different position that has less customer interaction?

The Stevie Wonder analogy isn't really accurate, though. His job wasn't to drive a car.
If your job is customer service, and customer service, by nature, requires you to be polite, that's a problem you and your employer have to work out.
Click to expand...

Well, I know that it's not his job to drive a car but that's not the point, it's just one of the examples of something he's not able to to do and people understand that.
Okay, I'll admit when I was interviewed, I didn't disclose that I had this condition because I was worried I wouldn't be hired because of discrimination and that really needs to stop. Everyone needs to understand that I am trying to be an advocate for myself. Another analogy is going to the Special Olympics and trying to get someone out of a wheelchair and trying to get them to walk, that won't probably happen and people get it. Well, people have to at least try to get me too. I don't just tell every single customer what I have and the few I have told, understand and respect it.

The person who commented that me telling some customers at my job would hurt their business is mean and that's my point of this thread is to try to stop that kind of discrimination :rant:. I would actually think the opposite, that it would be a compliment to them that they hired someone with a disability who can work and contribute to society. Just for everyone's information, I say what I need to say to the customers and be polite but they're are some customers that tell me things WAY MORE THAN I NEED TO KNOW AND DON'T KNOW WHEN TO SHUT UP. I am polite about it but sometimes that's the way it is.

I just can emphasize this enough that I really need to work like everyone else.
 
I think everyone would be better off if they would try to see other perspectives instead of refusing to accept anything but their own. Best of luck to you.
 
GirlWhoLikes2Laugh said:
Well, I know that it's not his job to drive a car but that's not the point, it's just one of the examples of something he's not able to to do and people understand that.
Okay, I'll admit when I was interviewed, I didn't disclose that I had this condition because I was worried I wouldn't be hired because of discrimination and that really needs to stop. Everyone needs to understand that I am trying to be an advocate for myself. Another analogy is going to the Special Olympics and trying to get someone out of a wheelchair and trying to get them to walk, that won't probably happen and people get it. Well, people have to at least try to get me too. I don't just tell every single customer what I have and the few I have told, understand and respect it.

The person who commented that me telling some customers at my job would hurt their business is mean and that's my point of this thread is to try to stop that kind of discrimination :rant:. I would actually think the opposite, that it would be a compliment to them that they hired someone with a disability who can work and contribute to society. Just for everyone's information, I say what I need to say to the customers and be polite but they're are some customers that tell me things WAY MORE THAN I NEED TO KNOW AND DON'T KNOW WHEN TO SHUT UP. I am polite about it but sometimes that's the way it is.
I just can emphasize this enough that I really need to work like everyone else.
Click to expand...

I don't want to seem rude, here...but in customer service, listening to customers who "tell you way more than you need to know and don't know when to shut up" is your job.
If they're not being rude or abusive, just talkative, you do have to listen to it. It's your job.
Your disability may make it difficult for you to put up with it, but it doesn't negate the fact that it's your job. If it's too difficult, than that's something to discuss with your employer.
You're not required to disclose a disability to your employer, and under ADA, they do have to make reasonable accommodations so you can do your job....but there's a difference between what an employer has to do (reasonable accommodations like changing positions, flexible shifts, adapting workspaces, etc), and what you can expect customers to do.
Asperger's is a serious condition, made more difficult by the fact that you can't see the disability. I'ts perfectly reasonable to expect a customer to speak up if you're hard of hearing, or be more patient if you have a disability that limits movement, and it's perfectly reasonable to expect an employer to try to find you a position that has less customer contact if your disability makes that difficult.
But it's not reasonable to expect a customer to accept someone in a customer service position being rude, even if that rudeness is not the employee's fault. That's not the customer's job.
ADA says the employer has to make accommodations so you can do your job. It doesn't say the nature of the job has to be changed.
 
Wolf said:
I don't want to seem rude, here...but in customer service, listening to customers who "tell you way more than you need to know and don't know when to shut up" is your job.
If they're not being rude or abusive, just talkative, you do have to listen to it. It's your job.
Your disability may make it difficult for you to put up with it, but it doesn't negate the fact that it's your job. If it's too difficult, than that's something to discuss with your employer.
You're not required to disclose a disability to your employer, and under ADA, they do have to make reasonable accommodations so you can do your job....but there's a difference between what an employer has to do (reasonable accommodations like changing positions, flexible shifts, adapting workspaces, etc), and what you can expect customers to do.
Asperger's is a serious condition, made more difficult by the fact that you can't see the disability. I'ts perfectly reasonable to expect a customer to speak up if you're hard of hearing, or be more patient if you have a disability that limits movement, and it's perfectly reasonable to expect an employer to try to find you a position that has less customer contact if your disability makes that difficult.
But it's not reasonable to expect a customer to accept someone in a customer service position being rude, even if that rudeness is not the employee's fault. That's not the customer's job.
ADA says the employer has to make accommodations so you can do your job. It doesn't say the nature of the job has to be changed.
Click to expand...

With all due respect Wolf, I do understand your points, however at the same time it was hard enough for me to get this job in the first place and it's easy for you being a neurotypical(a non Autistic person) to say get another job but it's not that simple because in interviews for the most part, I feel I am being discriminated against. Unfortunately, I am limited to certain jobs due to my condition so it's not easy for me to get a new job. I also want to say that it's not my fault that I have Asperger's and I also get that it's not the customer's fault either but again, I need to work. When the customer's complain that I am being rude (I don't realize it), they are without knowing it, discriminating against me because I can't tell if they're upset or not due to I have difficulty reading body language. Well, your attitude is that it's my problem and not everyone else is true to a degree. They still at least have to tolerate people with disabilities in the workplace because there's going to be more due to children being diagnosed on the Autism Spectrum. I really think you need to try to see things from my perspective instead of from the business perspective.

However, PEOPLE HAVE TO ACCEPT TO A CERTAIN DEGREE THAT PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES HAVE THE RIGHT TO WORK.
 
GirlWhoLikes2Laugh said:
With all due respect Wolf, I do understand your points, however at the same time it was hard enough for me to get this job in the first place and it's easy for you being a neurotypical(a non Autistic person) to say get another job but it's not that simple because in interviews for the most part, I feel I am being discriminated against. Unfortunately, I am limited to certain jobs due to my condition so it's not easy for me to get a new job. I also want to say that it's not my fault that I have Asperger's and I also get that it's not the customer's fault either but again, I need to work. When the customer's complain that I am being rude (I don't realize it), they are without knowing it, discriminating against me because I can't tell if they're upset or not due to I have difficulty reading body language. Well, your attitude is that it's my problem and not everyone else is true to a degree. They still at least have to tolerate people with disabilities in the workplace because there's going to be more due to children being diagnosed on the Autism Spectrum. I really think you need to try to see things from my perspective instead of from the business perspective.
However, PEOPLE HAVE TO ACCEPT TO A CERTAIN DEGREE THAT PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES HAVE THE RIGHT TO WORK.
Click to expand...

I never said any of this was your fault. I never said "get another job". I said it was your employer's responsibility under ADA, to make reasonable accommodations for you, including the possibility of a different position with less customer contact. That's adjusting the work environment to suit your needs, not "getting another job".
And yes, it's your choice and your right whether to tell an employer you have a disability that might make a job more difficult for you.
But a customer is not discriminating against you if they complain that you're rude, if they don't know you have a condition. All they know is that you were rude to them. How can that be discrimination?
Of course, you have a right to work. That's what the ADA is all about.
Let's say you can decide exactly what your employer would have to do to make this work for you. What would that be?
 
Jen, while I like you, and think you are a very nice person, unfortunately, Jeff is right.

In my view.. when one is at work.. they should discuss only what is necessary to do the work, unless they have a personal friend who is a co worker.

In my case, my condition. (Stuttering) only came up when I worked at Aflac, because, in insurance, cold calling is a part of the job that I couldnt/ cant do, due to my stutter. I tried many times, and just couldnt

In fact, I've now been told that I should/need to look for positions in insurance, such as filing claims, which wouldnt involve making many calls.. or such, because of my stutter.

I dont discuss it, unless it needs to come up, and .. while Autism may be a different situation, I wouldnt discuss it with anyone who doesnt need to know. Some people can be cruel/judgmental, and just wont understand.

Yes, of course people with disabilities have a right to work. However, I think one should be extremely careful as to what personal information they disclose, especially at work. It's difficult enough figuring out what personal information to disclose in social situations.
 
People with disabilities have the right to work, but usually when applying for a job, there will be requirements or qualifications listed. In my line of work, you need to be able to stand for long periods of time and lift up to 75 pounds. I don't think someone ina wheelchair would apply. If they did, we would probably not hire them for that position. Is that discrimination? At the end of the day, the business is about making money and if someone is a poor fit for their position and causing loss of sales, that's a problem.

Maybe you need a better outlet for your anger when it comes to rights of those with disabilities. Maybe you can volunteer your time to that cause in other ways. Your sensitivity about your issue is causing you to see every interaction as colored by discrimination when, as pointed out, that may not be the case. I think the quickness to anger on how you are treated is making it difficult to express yourself in a way people will really be willing to hear and could very well be hurting your employment.
 
Well the messages that I would like to send is that I guess based on what I've heard from my other friends on the Autism Spectrum is that I am tired of us being misunderstood or underestimated just because we're on the spectrum. The truth is that whether it's obvious or not, if someone has a disability, it's going to come out in one way or another whether you're at work or not. It needs to be dealt with. Of course it's not discrimination to not hire someone in a wheelchair that would have to lift up to 75 pounds, they would simply not be able to.

I also want to be an advocate for myself and stand up for myself when need be :clap:. Just like what happened to you Mitch, with the stuttering. I mean you couldn't hide the fact that you stutter. My disability comes out whether I like it or not, even though I am high functioning. That is according to my therapist, people can tell that I am different because of the tone of my voice, which I didn't even realize until she told me. All I am really asking for is for some empathy in dealing with a mostly neurotypical (non Autistic) world which some people have given me so far.
 
I have a condition that's prettymuch unrecognized, but it's somewhat on "the spectrum." So for me, I don't feel like I have the ability to "have" something because half to 3/4 of ppl don't understand what I have. I used to take accommodations, but really, seeing how far I can get without taking them (especially now that just about every place now brushes off your claim if you don't have a current neuropsychiatric evaluation because "well we want to measure to what degree your disability affects you".)
 
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GirlWhoLikes2Laugh said:
Well the messages that I would like to send is that I guess based on what I've heard from my other friends on the Autism Spectrum is that I am tired of us being misunderstood or underestimated just because we're on the spectrum. The truth is that whether it's obvious or not, if someone has a disability, it's going to come out in one way or another whether you're at work or not. It needs to be dealt with. Of course it's not discrimination to not hire someone in a wheelchair that would have to lift up to 75 pounds, they would simply not be able to.

I also want to be an advocate for myself and stand up for myself when need be :clap:. Just like what happened to you Mitch, with the stuttering. I mean you couldn't hide the fact that you stutter. My disability comes out whether I like it or not, even though I am high functioning. That is according to my therapist, people can tell that I am different because of the tone of my voice, which I didn't even realize until she told me. All I am really asking for is for some empathy in dealing with a mostly neurotypical (non Autistic) world which some people have given me so far.
Click to expand...

You're not getting the message that people on this forum are trying to tell you. Just because you are on the spectrum doesn't mean you have to tell everyone that you are, especially when they didn't ask. You DO have the right to tell them, but that doesn't mean you should. Also, the customers have the right to feel uncomfortable when you blurt it out in a contextually inappropriate non-sequitur. And if they are uncomfortable when they come in, they will eventually take their business elsewhere. And no, it is NOT discrimination when customers shop elsewhere because you make them feel uncomfortable. That's the free market at work. If you want to be an advocate for yourself great, but not everyone is going to share your enthusiasm. There are people who care about other issues more than they care about autism awareness. They are not wrong for that, and neither are you. If and when it does come out at work, it should come up organically, within the context of a situation, not just you mentioning it out of the blue.
 
The local Walmart here in Binghamton NY at least accommodates disabled employees by making them gate greeters and letting them bring a sitting stool or chair to the job so they don't have to stand all the time. My Grandfather (when he was alive) was fired from serving food at the hospital because he sat down when there was no work to be done (keep in mind the man was almost 90 years of age and had a leg injury from WWII). Some jobs accommodate, others are ruthless in their enforcement. All I can say is don't divulge your autistic status unless asked and be mindful of the job your applying for and that I hope you get hired (hugs).
 
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