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Please help. Piracy is wrong. It is killing us. We aren't rich like you think.

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How old are you if you don't mind me asking? Do you have a job? What is it? Did you go to college? Who raised you? Your mother or your father? Did you get that barbie car when you wanted it or did you have to save up for it yourself?

webfiend said:
Well I sit back amused by this, not one of you posted any real refutation of my arguments. Citing you tube for dmca claims is nonsense, they will take anything down if they don't want to deal with it. Proof of that is the constant supposed copyrighted material posted still, no real rhyme or reason as to what stays up or not.

Those of you that called me names, seriously that's your argument? That you posted that shows you are morons and simply can't read or use simple logic. If i can show it to my friend, I can show it to whomever i want, if you don't like that, tough shit, I bought the clip, its mine to do as I please as long as I don't try to reproduce it and sell copies of it.

The business thing is more a "are you thinking you are going to get rich doing this?" kinda question, if you make money good for you, most of you don't or you would not be bitching so much.

Some of you seem reasonable and made some good points, some of you seriously just stop it, your responses were embarassing.

And yes I did post this, come back with something reasoned, if you can't then shut the fuck up, you are not contributing to this.

I posted this to present the other side of the argument, I don't care that much about this, most of the material sucks and is not worth a dollar, how many recycled models do you have to see faking their way thru this to get that.

Quit bitching figure out something, that private link thing is probably a good idea, I think one you guys does something like that now.
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webfiend said:
I bought the clip, its mine to do as I please as long as I don't try to reproduce it and sell copies of it.
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If that is the case, then there is no argument. If you buy it and show the clip to a friend without making a copy then you're not breaking and law. It's the copying and sharing of copies that 99% of producers have a real problem with. As far as what you feel the content is worth? That's a subjective thing. We charge what we feel our clips are worth and the amount of time and money invested. If you feel that it's too much, you don't have to buy our clips. The problem arises with people downloading pirated clips and justifying it by saying they either can't afford it or feel it costs too much, but in either case they still want it and feel they have a right to it.
 
Californiasun19 said:
Better off buying your own software and doing a pay per stream and not allowing viewers to download your content.
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I have to disagree. At one time, maybe. Now, it's very easy to steal whole videos with software designed to pull streaming. I run into clips from sites that do exclusively streaming. Someone yanked it. Technology is a double edged sword.
 
Kelli Lynn Sage said:
The Legendary Kelli Lynn Sage hasn't produced a clip in over 3 months and every other clip the Legendary Kelli Lynn Sage is in is owned by another company or man who doesn't even have the fetish. I only have 70 clips that I own the rights to. Most of them are pirated and on the internet for free. That is why I make 100 a month on clips for sale. But if I made your small dick feel bigger, I am happy for you :) I am focusing on sessions as I appreciate one on one personal interactions and thats where my money lays. Seeing as you have 5.3 more clips than I do, I would certainly hope you made more money. You may want to light your scenes better though, it may help your income.
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Wow.

Um, I was joking - and paying you a compliment. A lot of people around here speak very highly of you as a model (I mean, even I recognized your name and I don't exactly keep track of who's who around here) and as I'm very much a small-timer in the industry, my initial thought when you quoted your monthly income was "wait a minute... hey, that's kinda cool. No, wait. That sucks. I feel bad now. She should be doing a lot better than me." I mean, let's be real, here - you're kind of a household name in these parts and some no-name jerk with a HandiCam is pulling in the same income. There's something utterly wrong with that picture that totally proves the point in your OP. You should be slaying compared to me.

And yes, I know I need a lighting rig; right now, I'm at the mercy of whatever on-set lighting there happens to be when I shoot.. Soon as I can justify spending a few hundred on more gear, I'm there. But that's not going to happen if people pirate our content. So, it comes full circle. Thanks for going right for the dick shaming, though. Hadn't got my daily dose of verbal abuse from the TMF yet today.

BTW, if you do decide to release that Metal Mish clip, let me know. I'm rather fond of her and would definitely be interested in buying.
 
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Downloads and streams became popular because of the convenience (on demand). Like tapes, CDs, DVDs, etc., someone figured out a way to pirate that media and share it with the masses. Even the older media that was only available on tapes and CDs are now available on a number of sites.

The measures that would need to be taken to ensure that .mp4s, .movs, .3gps, etc., are protected from pirates after sale are few and far between. I don't know if these technologies have been developed yet but here is an idea for anyone that wants to solve the problem:

Encrypted Media Player- Encrypt the videos and use a media player that can read and play the video in a "play only" style application. Granted, it would only be a matter of time before someone circumvents this measure and converts the encrypted media to a standardized format.
 
There are two types of pirates:

Type 1:

The casual buyer (or thief) who has a warped understanding of copyright and thinks that once they buy a clip they are entitled to do with it as they wish. These are the people who post clips on pornhub and the like. They will argue that "it's their clip" and the producer has no right to say they cannot share it as they wish. It's a hopeless argument with the entitled class of pirate to suggest they should not do it... they see no moral foul with what they do. A few Type 1 have responded to this thread. Their twisted logic is obvious.

Type 2:

These are the hard core pirates who run sites or blogs to pirate clips. Often, they use stolen credit cards to buy clips (which the producer then gets a chargeback for when the cardholder disputes the charge--costing them $) or get Type 1 pirates to donate clips to them with the promise of more free conent. Type 2 pirates do this because **they make money** off of the stolen clips. They get referral money from a hosting service when people sign up to download content with faster speeds or no wait time between downloads. Some also get revenue from ads that show up every time someone visits their pirate site. Type 2 pirates are doing it because they earn MONEY for stealing clips. Type 2 pirates are the people who put producers out of business.
 
People, please - NONE of those 'solutions' is a solution at all. As long as you're transmitting it over the Internet and to someone's computer monitor, it simply won't work.

Piracy has been an issue for fetish seekers going back to the 80's and early 90's. Back then there was precious little material online and when something came along people pounced on it without regard to giving credit nor asking permission. It hasn't changed. Some ticklers actually brag about how they took this or that for free and repost it uncaring towards how it hurts producers- then they bitch because said producers won't produce any more! Stupid stupid stupid! Back in the 80's and 90's there were very few producers. One of the very best who produced high quality reality material was constantly stolen from and posted all over. Ticklers posted that 'he owed it to the tickling brotherhood' to give out his material. More over-the-top stupid. When he complained everyone jumped on his case. Finally he walked away and took his awesome material with him and I feel this will be the same fate for producers now. Today people are having the same problem- all the producers- but no one jumps on their back at least. Nor do they do anything about it.

Streaming material, club memberships, private clubs, none of that will work. Why? Because anything that can be seen by anyone over a monitor can be recorded and reposted elsewhere using the simplest of software. ANYTHING. One asshole has even taken to filming it off his screen with a digital camera! The quality sucks, sure, but here's the thing- ticklers don't care! They will screw each other over like rats to get FREE material, and then bitch about it. There is no loyalty and community at all. If there were, and if ticklers really did stick together as the word community implies, and if they used the 'honor system' and did NOT go for the stolen goods and paid rightfully for the material, then the jerks stealing it and posting it for free would get no where and be out of a job.

But is that loyalty ever going to really happen now? In THIS community? In this day and age?
Don't hold your breath.
 
Knismesistic said:
Downloads and streams became popular because of the convenience (on demand). Like tapes, CDs, DVDs, etc., someone figured out a way to pirate that media and share it with the masses. Even the older media that was only available on tapes and CDs are now available on a number of sites.

The measures that would need to be taken to ensure that .mp4s, .movs, .3gps, etc., are protected from pirates after sale are few and far between. I don't know if these technologies have been developed yet but here is an idea for anyone that wants to solve the problem:

Encrypted Media Player- Encrypt the videos and use a media player that can read and play the video in a "play only" style application. Granted, it would only be a matter of time before someone circumvents this measure and converts the encrypted media to a standardized format.
Click to expand...


It can be done, but all it takes is one clever person to override the security and it's cracked. Cracking security is why it's such a futile effort for most. You have to stay ahead of the curve and that is beyond most of us for cost factor alone.
 
I have purchased a few videos from various producers; not many, but a few. I have them on my hard drive, some on other media. IAm I gonna share them freely? No. In fact, there are some I've saved that I can't access - the *$&^%^&$% computer quit working before I saved a copy. Those that I do have, I will not not share (meaning - send a freebie). If they want to watch it here at my place.....yeh...the wife would have a problem with that. So, those I buy, are here and ain't going anywhere. Heck, this computer might decide to die and I lose what few I have on it...backup time....
 
rdhd said:
I have purchased a few videos from various producers; not many, but a few. I have them on my hard drive, some on other media. IAm I gonna share them freely? No. In fact, there are some I've saved that I can't access - the *$&^%^&$% computer quit working before I saved a copy. Those that I do have, I will not not share (meaning - send a freebie). If they want to watch it here at my place.....yeh...the wife would have a problem with that. So, those I buy, are here and ain't going anywhere. Heck, this computer might decide to die and I lose what few I have on it...backup time....
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Keep your emails of purchase and send them to the producer. We mostly give re downloads <3 or contact c4s
 
Based on your eloquent response, of which I was NOT expecting due to your original response to my OP, your dick and your balls are probably amazing and so is your mind. I retract and apologize for my previous statement. I appreciate your response and explanation. I obviously have a lot of feelings towards this due to my intensive (pun intended) dedication to this community and its videos, showing my face, being out there unapologetically. One of these intense companies has 1 ... yes 1 model release for me when I first started in 2010. None of those clips went out without my direct approval of the preview and the description. He would make me go out to clubs to try to cast girls. He would refuse to leave the house for weeks because of his obsession with making money. I suffered a lot mentally due to that relationship. "Making Kelli Cry" is one of the realest and disturbing videos you will ever see if you truly look at it and feel it. The relationship was not healthy and I had to resort to my family to help me out of it. He never even paid me. He wouldn't let me touch that money. According to lawyers, I have every right to sue him for at least 50% of his total sales since then (2010). I, however, feel blessed for being able to meet all of you in person with trust due to the fact those clips are on the internet. My old Dom and business partner is a very troubled mind, and I don't know if he would be able to handle a lawsuit. This is a VERY sensitive subject for me.

SoleMates said:
Wow.

Um, I was joking - and paying you a compliment. A lot of people around here speak very highly of you as a model (I mean, even I recognized your name and I don't exactly keep track of who's who around here) and as I'm very much a small-timer in the industry, my initial thought when you quoted your monthly income was "wait a minute... hey, that's kinda cool. No, wait. That sucks. I feel bad now. She should be doing a lot better than me." I mean, let's be real, here - you're kind of a household name in these parts and some no-name jerk with a HandiCam is pulling in the same income. There's something utterly wrong with that picture that totally proves the point in your OP. You should be slaying compared to me.

And yes, I know I need a lighting rig; right now, I'm at the mercy of whatever on-set lighting there happens to be when I shoot.. Soon as I can justify spending a few hundred on more gear, I'm there. But that's not going to happen if people pirate our content. So, it comes full circle. Thanks for going right for the dick shaming, though. Hadn't got my daily dose of verbal abuse from the TMF yet today.

BTW, if you do decide to release that Metal Mish clip, let me know. I'm rather fond of her and would definitely be interested in buying.
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I'm in the music industry, not exactly the same thing although my income is very affected by what people choose to pay for. We have to make money back in merch and small, private shows. The bigger gigs don't count, as the venue takes nearly all of the ticket sales and (a growing trend) have even begun charging here and there for whatever. Store fronts like iTunes and Amazon are a formality at this point, though. It's all about touring and booking and touring...

All that to say there are some similarities, though. I almost feel like private bookings are the way to go for guaranteed income, although I'm hesitant about that because nobody would want to play "pimp" to a bunch of girls...

I know I'm drunk and maybe not helping, but the LaughingGasZone guy is right about everything regarding low hanging fruit. Barring that, a change of strategy could help, but not the streaming or sub model in my opinion. Booking live private events could be a consideration, although there is certainly risk involved considering your industry. Selling exclusive, physical, content at fetcon or other like-themed trade shows is also an option maybe. I don't know, but it's time for all entertainers to start thinking out of the box.

It's a shame tickling shows can't take up residency anywhere like acts in Vegas. That would be amazing.

Ok, I'm done now. I probably didn't help, but I hope you find the solution, OP.
 
seriously?

Kelli Lynn Sage said:
How old are you if you don't mind me asking? Do you have a job? What is it? Did you go to college? Who raised you? Your mother or your father? Did you get that barbie car when you wanted it or did you have to save up for it yourself?
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You might start with this.

ar·gu·ment

1. an exchange of diverging or opposite views, typically a heated or angry one.
2. reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong.

Try for that first before anyone can take you seriously, look at what you write, you are not helping yourself, some of you are quite reasoned, pay attention to those people.

If we were sitting face to face, you would never say what you write here, I would still make my case, I did not have to resort to insults to make it, you got that after you threw them first.

I had my fun, and will stop replying back, so go ahead and call me all the names you can think of, kinda like when monkeys throw shit at you, cause they got nothing else, get it out of your system, you will feel better, it does not bother me, in fact come up with something clever so I get a good laugh from it.

I understand your emotions on this, I present another side to get you to think about how to handle things, start with that.

This still boils down to once I buy the clip from you, its my property, you don't get to direct me as to what to do with it afterwards as long as I don't try to make money from it.

Appealing to authority like dmca claims is not an argument, this stuff is done all day long all over the planet, there are cultures that don't care and you will never stop them from this, so again, quit bitching, and come up with something you can live with, or stop making the clips altogether.
 
I just asked some simple questions... I Don't see the problem... Oh well. No worries. Go and steal a video or two and stop responding :) Enjoy your karma.
 
And you are wrong. If we were sitting face to face, it would be worse, and would probably end in me smacking the shit out of you. I would love to meet up. Call me. 646-220-1308
 
Solution: (Not to piracy, but to making money, which is the end game no?) exponentially raise your prices. make extraordinary content (find the hottest lee model you can) and charge an insane amount of money for it.

You have name recognition so if the clip looks extraordinary (marketing via photos and an enticing preview is necessary here) If you find a few rich customers to purchase your 20 minute, 100$ clip, you've already made more in a clip then what you've made in 5 months (based on your figures). Behind all the noise and chaos, there are still some rich tickle fetishists willing to pay a premium for a product. They aren't many or the majority by any stretch, far from it.
 
^People already think I am a bitch. That would make me a **** if I would charge 100 bucks for a clip. That would almost GUARANTEE it gets pirated. I would NEVER do that to my community. But it is an idea. So thanks for your input! <3
 
Kelli Lynn Sage said:
^People already think I am a bitch. That would make me a **** if I would charge 100 bucks for a clip. That would almost GUARANTEE it gets pirated. I would NEVER do that to my community.
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That's what i said, I wrote that this is not a solution to piracy, but to making money. I don't have any indication of what people think of you, but you do have name recognition which is what might give you the luxury to raise your prices. Again, this is purely about the money angle. I can understand that you want to do right by the community, but it's a more difficult path to making money if you ask me.
 
Kelli Lynn Sage said:
^People already think I am a bitch. That would make me a **** if I would charge 100 bucks for a clip. That would almost GUARANTEE it gets pirated. I would NEVER do that to my community. But it is an idea. So thanks for your input! <3
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Looking at your particular situation, your best bet may be to simply offer customs that are only able to be owned by one person. That way if it is released on the net it is not a hit to your bottom line. A custom made for an individual that is not able to be sold in store is that persons property and therefor has no copyright to worry about. Custom videos also make a LOT more profit. My clips make about 5 or 6 dollars each after C4S takes their chunk; however, the customs I have sold make approximately 80-250 dollars each and C4S doesn't get to touch that since I deal with the customer directly for those.

If your clips themselves are being pirated then your best option is either file to obtain the personal information and file a suit against the offending IP or simply end the clips and go into pure customs.

The guy thinking he can do what he wants with a clip once he buys it does not understand that most (not all), but most courts will allow public suit against an offender of DMCA. So long as they do not live in some country whose name can not be pronounced without surgical modification to our tongues, there are standards and laws which side with the producer to allow a direct suit against a DMCA perpetrator. The trouble is that it is a lengthy and expensive processes which may only lead to a moral victory in the end as the cost may equal the winnings.

Just kind of a matter of how far you want to take things or if you are willing to alter your store to be custom only and not clip based which would suck because I actually like your clips :)

I know I have said it before but it is worth repeating... PIRATES SUCK!
 
I might've taken a more indifferent approach in the past, especially since there have been producers who have done the wild bitch about piracy being the only thing that could possibly explain business...but the stresses have really manifested in the industry the last few years.

And it's because you have a slew of folks who don't even value their own collections. Hell, at least trading operated under a value assumption of clips or comics and that. But now, you have folk that think its just free for all.

Making it out like they're robin hood, or some shit.

It's not about making tons of money. People want paid for their content. You don't have people demanding they make 100k off their shit...but hell..breaking even means that cool next video isn't under finacial strain.

The piracy issue has also poisoned the well for models. Like...I love seeing persons and them returning. I love seeing this as fun and enjoyable. I like seeing a variety of models of different backgrounds. But with piracy it becomes a zero sum game because why even go that route?

People making content should get paid for it. This isn't rocket science. Nobody gets rich off this. There isn't some damn media empire. People are ridiculous in thinking this way.

I will say Ms. Sage is pretty damn great. Not only does she make one of the most appealing models around (you know she has this in her blood just from watching her manner, and goddamn, watching her get tickled and her reactions never don't work for me and are practically must buys from my experience) but I love watching her take the piss out of webfiend or whatever. It's got me laughing my ass off this morning!
 
duderino84 said:
Great to see this is how you actually treat people.
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Yeah. While I find myself agreeing with the morality of the argument, I'm not sure how much my sympathy has increased. Again, nothing undercuts one's argument quite so much as talking down to and insulting people.
 
StarMap0238 said:
This might be your best bet.

Everybody wins but America

- You make more money
- Rich customer, well, he's always winning
- Community gets to watch the pirated content which they would have never paid for anyway
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The trouble with this bet is the same with any other... Bet big win big can also become bet big lose big. If you are going high end there is a significantly larger investment involved. This is where I recommended just doing customs as the only investment is with money you already know is guaranteed. They also pay considerably more than even most high end clips. Not sure what other producers are charging but after negotiations with my customers I get on average around 80-250 a piece for a custom depending on scene intensity and what is asked for. I had one go for a whopping 500 dollars (offered by customer not dictated by me). The difference with me is in my studio custom money goes primarily to the model with myself only getting cost of production fee and a 10% profit. So for the 500 dollar one I made 50 bucks, the models split 200 a piece and the other 50 went to props needed for the scene. There is no rule to say however; that a different producer couldn't keep all of the profit. This is just how I run my store since I believe in taking care of the models who allow me to do what I love in life :)
 
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