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Please help. Piracy is wrong. It is killing us. We aren't rich like you think.

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Man, just so much pent up aggression at someone who's never illegally "uploaded" anything in his life. Nice pathetic attempt at spreading a lie though! It's not that I don't understand the problem, it's that it's not a problem that can be solved how you want it to. Can you take the energy from this temper tantrum and bring it elsewhere, like investing it in your business? Of course not, you'd rather throw impotent insults at me because you think that I pirate stuff and post it online, which couldn't be further from the truth. Seriously this is not helping you, grow up please and get out of denial.

I like how you're just peppering in words without really understand how they're supposed to work in a sentence. Maybe if you don't want to be... erroneously, want to be lumped in with pirates, don't say shit to the effect of;

People are under no obligation to pay you

people who give it away for free

acting like the people telling you the truth you don't want to hear are the bad guys.

Oh, you don't actually care and prefer amateur stuff! Right, apparently that makes what you said... not stupid, somehow. Gotcha.
 
I notice you specified you never illegally uploaded...but didn't mention downloading.
As for anger, I don't have any, since I'm not a producer.
But you sure actlike you want to piss people off.

I've never illegally uploaded or downloaded anything, my response was to the accusation that I uploaded. I'm not trying to piss people off, they're unhappy with the reality of the situation. It's not my fault that they are. Not to mention that they're essentially flipping out over the fact that people won't give their money to them. Talk about entitlement.
 
I've never illegally uploaded or downloaded anything, my response was to the accusation that I uploaded. I'm not trying to piss people off, they're unhappy with the reality of the situation. It's not my fault that they are. Not to mention that they're essentially flipping out over the fact that people won't give their money to them. Talk about entitlement.

"I totally don't upload things, but I know what they're really upset about is that people don't give them money!"

Talk about illiterate.
 
I've never illegally uploaded or downloaded anything, my response was to the accusation that I uploaded. I'm not trying to piss people off, they're unhappy with the reality of the situation. It's not my fault that they are. Not to mention that they're essentially flipping out over the fact that people won't give their money to them. Talk about entitlement.

It's not about people giving them money, it's about people downloading their work and not paying for it.
They're not expecting people to just send them money for no reason.
Do you not understand the process?
 
"I totally don't upload things, but I know what they're really upset about is that people don't give them money!"

Talk about illiterate.

Illiterate? Like the economic illiteracy of complaining about a job you willingly entered and now aren't making money because of competition and bad faith you can't control? Just stop guys, this is embarrassing and as aforementioned, fruitless. I understand why you're mad, but bitching and moaning won't help and falsely accusing me is pathetic.
 
Illiterate? Like the economic illiteracy of complaining about a job you willingly entered and now aren't making money because of competition and bad faith you can't control? Just stop guys, this is embarrassing and as aforementioned, fruitless. I understand why you're mad, but bitching and moaning won't help and falsely accusing me is pathetic.

This is now the third or fourth time you've deliberately sidestepped the topic of why people would get mad about piracy, other than an (unconvincing) defense that you personally totally don't do it. It's now becoming apparent you're doing it deliberately, and despite your insistence that "Hey now c'mon I ain't uploaded nuthin'...", you don't understand why people are asking you don't do it.
 
This is now the third or fourth time you've deliberately sidestepped the topic of why people would get mad about piracy, other than an (unconvincing) defense that you personally totally don't do it. It's now becoming apparent you're doing it deliberately, and despite your insistence that "Hey now c'mon I ain't uploaded nuthin'...", you don't understand why people are asking you don't do it.

I'm well aware of why people are pissed at pirates. They should be, they hurt the bottom line. I've said this over and over. But I've also said over and over that piracy is a sad but inevitable fact. Complaining about them won't stop the problem, neither will getting mad at me. You're projecting your anger at pirates on me and also attacking my character by accusing me of being a pirate. But in reality, the only thing you're doing is wasting your own time and showing a really ugly side on a forum that you get most of your customers from. You're literally hurting yourself here.
 
As a third party that hasn't been part of this conversation, I just want to say you guys (specifically Comfort Eagle and Laughing Gas) are getting pretty mean in your posts. Comfort, I've seen your posts here for years, you're a good guy and I like you. Laughing, you've also been around for a while, you put up good material and I applaud that you're contributing to the community. Mavran isn't supporting piracy in his posts, and whether or not he is actually pirating or not seems irrelevant: he claims he isn't. You two are forcing a narrative, making assumptions, and projecting your anger towards pirates onto this guy, and I don't think he deserves it.

And that's fine, everyone has free speech here, but as someone from the sidelines until this post, I was hoping I could calm the atmosphere a bit. After all, a proper discussion can't really be had if insults are flying and fingers are being pointed, at least that's what I believe.

I bring this up every time I partake in one of these posts, but during a tirade against pirate's, Tommy of TA threatened to disclose the credit information of an individual he believed was posting his videos. He edited the posts away at some point, but there was a lot wrong with what he claimed he was going to do. For one, that credit information didn't necessarily belong to the person that purchased the videos. For two, and the bigger one, is that the guy could have been legitimate. I didn't see what Tom saw and so I can't make that call, but I don't think there would have been conclusive evidence, anyway. This is wrong, that he has the ability to do this is scary, and it should be a fair warning to anyone purchasing any good or service from anyone. I bring it up because it is a legitimate reason I will not make a purchase from some companies and institutions: I either do not trust the people behind it or I do not trust their infrastructure.

As for the remainder of my post, they are very likely things that have already been covered earlier in the post and if so I apologize. There was a point within the last discussion that mavran isn't offering any suggestions on how to deal with the piracy, and so I didn't want to chime in without adding to the discussion proper.

For one I think that it needs clearing up that, if it hasn't been already, a pirated video does not equal a lost sale. Just, there's no indication that any person watching a pirated video had any intention of buying it beforehand. I'm sure piracy causes damage to a company but it may not be as pronounced as it seems. I don't think the absolute end of piracy will have nearly as much of an effect as some believe it will.

Anyway, if you want to deal with piracy one has to look at why its happening. Usually, I think its a cost or convenience thing, either the costs are too high -- or a person just doesn't want to pay the cost -- or its more convenient to watch on one of the streaming sites than it is to make a purchase of some kind, for some reason.

Clips4Sale is certainly convenient as a store front, but I still find it a pain to navigate at times. Finding the store I want isn't always easy, and then browsing the clips is also a pain at times, though part of that is my fault (I have a few things that stop scripts from running, so I have to go through and disable them to properly use clips4sale). Either way, navigating a list that has several different copies of the same video, either cut up for different parts alongside a full version, or different sizes of a video, is a hassle. If I know what video I'm looking for, that's a different thing entirely, because the search is functional but its not the best. Beyond that, if you're looking to get a preview of a clip, you only get 10 seconds on clips4sale, so you're better off coming here, which is an additional bunch of steps involving finding the proper thread with the preview, then downloading it, then watching it.

My point is clips4sale isn't very fast or efficient, and that's not the fault of producers, but many producers primarily use clips4sale. A lot of you guys have your own personal sites, and that's great.

Anyway, where I was going with this is that a good way to stop piracy is to just deal with the benefits piracy provides over actual purchases. Making a purchase can be a hassle, and so improving upon that is arguably the best way to lower piracy. Of course, this won't stop the people that share the videos, it's more about the people who would be on the fence. If you need a proper example of this, look to Steam or iTunes. These stores are easy to use and very convenient, and these two factors have curbed piracy in their respective areas. Not entirely, but they have.

So what I've basically said is that clips4sale needs to get better which is beyond the control of any one producer, though I think if enough people complain, or at least offer constructive criticism, that site could improve. I specifically say clips4sale because having one hub for media is far easier for the consumer, and honestly, one of the biggest issues with our medium is that accessing the content isn't consumer friendly.

I think this thread shows that. It's a lot of anger, from what I've seen, as opposed to discussion and improvement. The discussion and improvement has happened in the past, and is in here too, but the thread is more ranting and wailing on people than trying to improve the overall purchasing experience.

My last comment is that a producer should consider putting together a class action of some sort against pornhub. I would be surprised if this isn't in the works already somewhere. I don't know a lot about copyright infringement laws, nor do I know a lot about how well policed pornhub is. I'm just not experienced with their site, I don't know if anyone can report a video or how the reporting process works, or any of that, but I imagine there is room for a lawsuit against them somewhere.

Again, sorry if any -- or all -- of my post has been brought up before.
 
Thank you ElFewja. You said what I was trying to say far more eloquently than I could.
 
I just want to say you guys (specifically Comfort Eagle and Laughing Gas) are getting pretty mean in your posts.

We get "mean" when idiots and piracy apologists come into this thread and tell us we're "angry", "cry babies" and to "get a real job" or just troll for LOLs. Most of these idiots pirate porn themselves and they either have zero problems with it or have some twisted rationale. Go back and read through all 19 pages and you'll see these mooks are bringing nothing to this conversation. They come in and make a few bullshit comments with nothing to support their position.
Mavran and others like him have no experience having their work stolen on a daily basis. If and when that happens they will be the first to cry like little bitches
and tell everyone how wrong and unfair it is. It's always the same. Most of them are young and dumb. Nothing matters unless it affects them. And when it does, they will realize that giving a shit, even if it doesn't affect you, actually matters. But they will have to learn this the hard way. You can't reason this into these people.
 
For what it's worth, I'll chime in with 2 cents. I like viewing the the teasers the producers post here... is it something I'd like to buy. I do like the idea of watching the whole video for free, before I buy. Well, as for the former, I've bought a few based on the teaser (and, have lost a few because of danged computer crashes). As for the latter..... haven't done it, out of respect for the producers (hey, yes, some of us do have respect). Lots of you are treating the sites as a library (OK, the videos are now elsewhere - the library), where you can check the book out and read it, then return it. Same with the video - just view it, see if you like it. So, are you interested enough to buy a copy? Or just keep checking out that free copy, to hell with the author/producer? If no one buys the author's works, (s)he stops writing because of no interest; same with the producers. We don't support them, they don't produce. Then you that like the pirated stuff get nothing to view. When I win the lottery, I'll do my part to help the producers. Til then, I still won't go to the freebie sites (and for more reasons than one).
 
For what it's worth, I'll chime in with 2 cents. I like viewing the the teasers the producers post here... is it something I'd like to buy. I do like the idea of watching the whole video for free, before I buy. Well, as for the former, I've bought a few based on the teaser (and, have lost a few because of danged computer crashes). As for the latter..... haven't done it, out of respect for the producers (hey, yes, some of us do have respect). Lots of you are treating the sites as a library (OK, the videos are now elsewhere - the library), where you can check the book out and read it, then return it. Same with the video - just view it, see if you like it. So, are you interested enough to buy a copy? Or just keep checking out that free copy, to hell with the author/producer? If no one buys the author's works, (s)he stops writing because of no interest; same with the producers. We don't support them, they don't produce. Then you that like the pirated stuff get nothing to view. When I win the lottery, I'll do my part to help the producers. Til then, I still won't go to the freebie sites (and for more reasons than one).

Unfortunately, the library system is also dependent on the honor system. I know that clips4sale and and other sites are slow in this age of immediate gratification, but that is really not why most people go to pornhub and other places like it. Free is just too god damn tempting and it always will be as long
as people have to pay for it. Unfortunately, streaming doesn't curtail piracy (as I detailed about 15 pages ago). The best a producer can do is mitigate the surface stuff. Anything deeper isn't worth chasing because those people were never and will never pay for content. Its searchable stuff on pornhub and easy access stuff that we clean up. We aren't chasing everyone down, but we are also not making it easy. Time is money and spending it all day chasing deep piracy is not something I care to do.
 
Mavran and others like him have no experience having their work stolen on a daily basis. If and when that happens they will be the first to cry like little bitches and tell everyone how wrong and unfair it is. It's always the same. Most of them are young and dumb. Nothing matters unless it affects them. And when it does, they will realize that giving a shit, even if it doesn't affect you, actually matters. But they will have to learn this the hard way. You can't reason this into these people.

Even when given the chance for an olive branch you still feel the need to be a condescending jerk making unfounded assumptions. And I'm the one that can't be reasoned with? If you're looking for someone who's the first to cry like a little bitch and tell everyone how wrong and unfair it is, invest in a mirror. At this point you're being the biggest baby about it. This whole thread is testament to it.
 
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I think Elfewja made a good point. I used to watch a lot of pirated movies and play lot of pirated video games. Then steam and netflix came and now it's extremely rare for me to do that, because steam and netflix are convienient enough for me that I don't really feel a need to pirate anymore. Fair service for fair amount of money.
 
This webcomic covers the issue pretty well.

All this reminds me of the whole Napster hoo-haw from eons ago. People thought they were "stickin' it to the man" by downloading shitloads of major-label music through Napster. More recently they used The Pirate Bay or the recently-scuttled what.cd.

Independent clip producers aren't Universal Music Group. They don't have unlimited funds. They're serving a very highly specialized market. Kind of like an independent record label. If they don't get paid, they go dark. Simple as that. Oh yeah, pirated material often comes with free surprises. Like malware.

As an aside, I'm no fan of streaming. Not only is my internet service not that great (slow), but I'm the kind of guy who still buys DVDs and downloadable files because I prefer to have a copy of my own. F'rinstance, I bought a membership in a well-known Australian site. I downloaded lots of clips, not a one of which I have re-uploaded to a pirate site (I mean, I paid for 'em. Why should I let others have them for free?).

And yes, pirates who charge money for their ill-gotten wares are doubly scummy.

As another aside, if Net Neutrality gets killed off, what's gonna happen to all those great indie porn sites? And even sites like this one?
 
I think Elfewja made a good point. I used to watch a lot of pirated movies and play lot of pirated video games. Then steam and netflix came and now it's extremely rare for me to do that, because steam and netflix are convienient enough for me that I don't really feel a need to pirate anymore. Fair service for fair amount of money.

Unfortunately, pirated video games and movies are not the same as pirated fetish content. It's an apples to oranges comparison. Netflix and Steam have million of customers. Fetish content, like tickling, has such a small clientele. Most producers are lucky to have a few hundred sales on a clip (some only a few dozen). There is no customer base to spread the cost around. The cost of making quality content is expensive. Producers can start cheap with the vanilla girl next door, but often she doesn't want to do nudes and doesn't want her image associated with harder content and it becomes very restrictive. Also, customers start complaining about poor lighting, no variation in bondage gear and other production aspects that start costing money. If it's a hobby and you post content for free, it's a costly one. If a producer sells the clips, they can make decent money in the beginning, but eventually every producer feels customer pressure to increase quality and find new talent. It's not cheap. What you may deam a fair amount, may not be possible for a niche market like tickling videos.
 

Case and point of the immaturity you've demonstrated this whole thread. No wonder you're losing money left and right, it's not the pirates, it's the fact that your business is run by a pathetic, petulant child.
 
Case and point of the immaturity you've demonstrated this whole thread. No wonder you're losing money left and right, it's not the pirates, it's the fact that your business is run by a petulant child.

I'm turning a decent profit considering for the first year it was literally given away for free, for someone harping on the "logical and rational" side to the argument it's amazing how little information you're actually gleaming from anything being said to you.

The keks are for my own personal amusement and have not effected business in any way. It's actually seemed to given the brand a bit more recognition!
 
I'm turning a decent profit considering for the first year it was literally given away for free, for someone harping on the "logical and rational" side to the argument it's amazing how little information you're actually gleaming from anything being said to you.

The keks are for my own personal amusement and have not effected business in any way. It's actually seemed to given the brand a bit more recognition!

The information I've "gleaned" is that you're a whiny child who gets angrier with each pathetic attempt to get a rise out of people. It would appear that information's very sadly correct :/
 
The information I've "gleaned" is that you're a whiny child who gets angrier with each pathetic attempt to get a rise out of people. It would appear that information's very sadly correct :/

I know, because you've literally said nothing but "child child you're a child you're all children quit being childish child-like children!" over and over again. Hence why I just made fun of you for your shit-tier intellectual responses to anything, you have a single response to anything anyone has said to you.
 
I know, because you've literally said nothing but "child child you're a child you're all children quit being childish child-like children!" over and over again. Hence why I just made fun of you for your shit-tier intellectual responses to anything, you have a single response to anything anyone has said to you.

Good, good! Keep proving me right! Let the anger flow through you!
 
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