Please help. Piracy is wrong. It is killing us. We aren't rich like you think.

Tickaler said:

How has the mainstream porn model survived? Or is that business dying as well? Can you look at their methods and adapt your models?

Click to expand...

There's more people willing to pay for it. If there are 100 million potential "real porn" buyers and only 1/4 pay for anything, it's still a shitload of money. By contrast there are maybe a couple thousand tickle fetishists.

hm13721372 said:

I dont know if this works
But , can you get the money before producing a clip???
Like Advertising sth in the video?
In this way, pirates are going to help you!
I mean, the ad will be seen more when the video is pirated and the advertisers will be happier with more piracy!
At least it may work for big producers....
Its the best solution i can think of...but i dont know if it works

Click to expand...

Who is going to sponsor tickle fetish videos?

hm13721372 said:

I dont know if this works
But , can you get the money before producing a clip???
Like Advertising sth in the video?
In this way, pirates are going to help you!
I mean, the ad will be seen more when the video is pirated and the advertisers will be happier with more piracy!
At least it may work for big producers....
Its the best solution i can think of...but i dont know if it works

Click to expand...

I'm afraid this system would "encourage" piracy

I also want to point out it's less people taking advantage of loopholes and freebies than it is a problem where most ticklepeople will refuse to pay for anything no matter how cheap it is to begin with. You see it a lot with artists and others who might use a Patreon type system. Very, very few of them do well at all, and that's on a system where for as little as a couple of bucks a month, they just keep churning out free shit. Tickle people as a whole is just an awful market to try and pander to.

There are other untapped demographics, I've noticed Instagram is the new shit for breaking into that deep pocketed fetishist market. But the "old standards"? Forget it. You'll have people on here making impassioned arguments on how not only will they not pay for anything, but you should go in expecting nobody will. This is the mindset you're working with, and as a result "the comunity" will not only not do anything to help you, huge chunks of it will take it upon themselves to do it to teach you some kind of stupid lesson.

I would take but a moment to add a couple of my own thoughts on this matter. First and foremost...PIRATES SUCK! Now that I have that off my chest let me address a few points:

1. Streaming is not a good adaptation as first it costs money for server bandwidth to constantly have streams available. Add to that the cost to keep said servers operational. Also streams can be downloaded quite easily with a couple simple free programs.

2. premium membership to TMF is not a good idea as it would kill all but the mass marketed producers ability to post on here. In my own case I do not pull enough revenue from this site to justify paying to advertise on it. I only get about 30% of my clip sales from TMF people. I don't have intimate knowledge of other companies finances but I imagine for Tickle Abuse, Insex, Turtleboy, Czech tickle, or any of the "mainstream" sites such a membership could possibly be profitable. However; on the flip side imagine how many less members this site would have to advertise to if it were a pay site. If you have no one watching the ads it makes it pointless to put them up.

3. Go after individuals not the source. I have had to go after several pirates. It is almost impossible to win any kind of suit against the source sites as they can simply avoid laws based on region or in the matter of court simply have more money to draw the case out until you either resign your case or lose due to lack of the best lawyer. The answer is to go after individual downloads. Get a requisition for the IP info and press charges against the individual. Do this enough and word will get around you are not to be messed with. No one wants a very public case brought against them that would alert their entire area to the nature of their fetish content browsing. Imagine the embarrassment; as such, they settle quickly and quietly. Hence why when Napster was a thing no one was stupid enough to pirate Metallica or Sony material.

4. Pirates suck!!!! Sorry but I had to get that off my chest one last time. For stores like mine where I run a small budget operation and mostly do this just for fun it truly hits hard when one of our clips is pirated as I do not have that high of a margin to take a hit / loss. This is why I fight tooth and nail against anyone who would try to take from me what little I have.

I truly feel your pain and hope that at some point we figure out the ideal solution. In the meantime good producers are folding. Whats worse as they fold we lose out on seeing good models and never realize what may have been. A classic example of this was when sites like Tickling Holly, Rock-Man, and Solefully Yours folded and in their place only the mainstream ones like FM Concepts were left. We lost out on seeing a TON of great girl next door models. Do not misquote me as anything being wrong with FM by the way. I own a ton of their videos. I am simply saying we lost variety.

If you ever need someone to vent your frustration; allow me to officially offer my shoulder to you. It is not much but I am here if you ever need someone.

I've devoted considerable resources on this matter over the years and am thankful its been fairly successful, so I empathize with Kellis frustrations and us producers as a whole. Some people have a complete unfounded sense of entitlement. Just because you buy a clip doesn't give you the right to share it. Holding piraters directly accountable helps a lot. Models who choose to do a clip shouldnt feel scared some asshole will put their images next to pornstars or the like. They deserve better than that and common courtesy respect.

Theres effective ways to combat this and am happy to discuss via pm for anyone interested.

Btw, I love coyotes response prior to mine. Well said sir!

Same reason I stopped doing the Jenni videos pretty soon after that started.

Darth,

Your quote - " Just because you buy a clip doesn't give you the right to share it"...

Explain that please?

If I buy a clip and show it to my playmate is that acceptable?

If it is, then what is the difference because I have the means and way to show that to any number of playmates?

The biggest problem is you are all choosing to try to turn this into a business, its not.

You may make a little money, but thats about it, I believe most other clip producers, are producing other content, and perhaps sales from everything is why they are still around doing this.

This copy right claim is just crap, once I buy that clip from you, its mine to do with it as i please, the only exception to that is to reproduce it and sell it, that I am not allowed to do, that would violate an actual copy right claim.

Showing this to people does not.

I understand the arguments here, but really if you are not making any money, then stop doing this.

I will be happy to read the arguments refuting me on this, so please make them, maybe in all this a solution will come from it.

Don't hate, I am just presenting another side to this.

webfiend said:

The biggest problem is you are all choosing to try to turn this into a business, its not.

You may make a little money, but thats about it, I believe most other clip producers, are producing other content, and perhaps sales from everything is why they are still around doing this.

Click to expand...

I've seen this comment before..why do you think it is not a business? And why do you assume that producers can make money from producing other content but not from tickling? The other content I produce is pirated a lot less, but my tickling content is still my main business and my main income...hence my business and income are affected heavily by piracy.

webfiend said:

This copy right claim is just crap, once I buy that clip from you, its mine to do with it as i please, the only exception to that is to reproduce it and sell it, that I am not allowed to do, that would violate an actual copy right claim.

Click to expand...

That isn't how copyright works. If you post a movie or a song on Youtube or Facebook without permission, it is still a breach of copyright. It applies whether you are posting it on a free site or charging people to access it.

webfiend said:

Darth,
Your quote - " Just because you buy a clip doesn't give you the right to share it"...
Explain that please?
If I buy a clip and show it to my playmate is that acceptable?
If it is, then what is the difference because I have the means and way to show that to any number of playmates?
The biggest problem is you are all choosing to try to turn this into a business, its not.
You may make a little money, but thats about it, I believe most other clip producers, are producing other content, and perhaps sales from everything is why they are still around doing this.
This copy right claim is just crap, once I buy that clip from you, its mine to do with it as i please, the only exception to that is to reproduce it and sell it, that I am not allowed to do, that would violate an actual copy right claim.
Showing this to people does not.
I understand the arguments here, but really if you are not making any money, then stop doing this.
I will be happy to read the arguments refuting me on this, so please make them, maybe in all this a solution will come from it.
Don't hate, I am just presenting another side to this.

Click to expand...

Mr. Webfiend, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your

rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone

in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

I mean...it needs to be said; a lot of people out there are cheapskates who have zero desire to pay. I've seen people gleefully ask for five dollar content to pirate. I used to argue for pricing models but that's based on my consumer habits and a desire. I'm willing to pay.

But a lot of people aren't, and if they're going to spread material around, they kinda deserve being damaged.

That Billy Madison quote aside, I'm not sure if you understand how copyrights work. Your rationale suggests that the CEO of CBS can go to Bestbuy and purchase any new release DVD for $20 and then broadcast it on CBS for anyone to watch without paying anything but his original $20 purchase. A director or studio doesn't get to buy a CD and then use that music in their movie without paying licensing fees. Copyright law protects that from happening.

If you truly thought what you were doing was legal you wouldn't have an issue DM'ing any producer on the TMF with your contact info and letting them know that you are uploading their clips for free. You wouldn't do that though because you know that your argument is nonsense and that you would be sued for copyright violations.

Obviously the producers are running a business, not sure why you think they aren't. As someone that gets a lot of custom videos I'm starting to lean toward paying extra so that the clip isn't released on the producer's site. Why should I pay so that some dirt bag can post the clip for free online? Eventually the pirates are going to force enough producers out of the game that customs may be the only way to get shoots done.

I have been producing amateur content on my own since 2008. I accepted a long time ago that piracy is something that will always be prevalent in any facet of entertainment. My belieg is that it is only going to get worse and that waiting for some kind of a rapture where everyone all of the sudden is moved to "do the right thing" is just never, ever, ever, going to happen. Piracy has hurt my company, cost me money, cost me the opportunity to work with models a second time once they or someone they know discovers their video on pornhub.

I refused awhile ago to be butthurt about it anymore, just because it's one of those things that you have to deal with if you are going to put yourself out there and produce content. It has definitely changed how I make videos, how often i make videos. I don't produce videos full time anymore simply because if I did I would be hemorrhaging money every month.

You can do your dardnest to limit piracy, but it never going to go away. The only upside of the piracy debacle is that once I stopped trying to make the videos to make a living and just started making them from fun, I started enjoying it a lot more. I produce the content I want to make, I don't shoot custom videos anymore, and I have built a body of work I am proud of. I appreciate that some people still enjoy my content, but after being shit on by the trolls and the pirates, It made sense to change how I do things rather than kiss the ass of the very people who steal my shit.

All of that being said, I am very happy to be able to keep providing content to those who appreciate it and don't steal it. I know you're out there folks!

webfiend said:

Darth,

Your quote - " Just because you buy a clip doesn't give you the right to share it"...

Explain that please?

If I buy a clip and show it to my playmate is that acceptable?

If it is, then what is the difference because I have the means and way to show that to any number of playmates?

The biggest problem is you are all choosing to try to turn this into a business, its not.

You may make a little money, but thats about it, I believe most other clip producers, are producing other content, and perhaps sales from everything is why they are still around doing this.

This copy right claim is just crap, once I buy that clip from you, its mine to do with it as i please, the only exception to that is to reproduce it and sell it, that I am not allowed to do, that would violate an actual copy right claim.

Showing this to people does not.

I understand the arguments here, but really if you are not making any money, then stop doing this.

I will be happy to read the arguments refuting me on this, so please make them, maybe in all this a solution will come from it.

Don't hate, I am just presenting another side to this.

Click to expand...

Digital content is more complicated than physical content. You can't duplicate most physical items at home (not yet) so if you share or give a physical item its understood to be acceptable because it has a limited reach in the public. It can only occupy one place at a given time. That is something that does not happen with digital content because, aside from bringing a friend over to view it on your computer which is largely acceptable, the majority of these digital files are being replicated. People can make a copy of it and in fact they do when they upload it to a website or send it through email. They still have the original, but now they have a duplicate copy. A copy has been made with no effort or resource expenditure on their part and no cost on the part of anyone they send it to. Its been paid for once, by the person who initially acquired it, but can be reproduced ad infinitum with the content creator never seeing a dime in sales. Money they may need to continue to receive in order to recoup what was spent to make the content as well as making a profit.

As far as it being a business? Almost anything can be a business. You can sell almost anything. These things are not made without costs. You can choose to make them cheaper, but you will still spend money. You can not validate your belief that you have a right to free anything by saying that they shouldn't try to make a living at making the content. That is not an argument. Its an excuse for your behavior. You aren't telling a convenience store that they shouldn't sell soda and you have a right to take one because you want one. It's this disconnect between physical and digital products that pro-piracy people constantly base their arguments on. Digital and physical content take time, resources labor and money to create. It just doesn't come in a physical box. If that is the only difference, then, by that logic, no physical business should complain about the theft of physical objects and or go into business to make money or a living selling their products.

webfiend said:

Darth,

Your quote - " Just because you buy a clip doesn't give you the right to share it"...

Explain that please?

If I buy a clip and show it to my playmate is that acceptable?

If it is, then what is the difference because I have the means and way to show that to any number of playmates?

The biggest problem is you are all choosing to try to turn this into a business, its not.

You may make a little money, but thats about it, I believe most other clip producers, are producing other content, and perhaps sales from everything is why they are still around doing this.

This copy right claim is just crap, once I buy that clip from you, its mine to do with it as i please, the only exception to that is to reproduce it and sell it, that I am not allowed to do, that would violate an actual copy right claim.

Showing this to people does not.

I understand the arguments here, but really if you are not making any money, then stop doing this.

I will be happy to read the arguments refuting me on this, so please make them, maybe in all this a solution will come from it.

Don't hate, I am just presenting another side to this.

Click to expand...

Then how come DMCA claims get them taken down?

webfiend said:

Darth,

Your quote - " Just because you buy a clip doesn't give you the right to share it"...

Explain that please?

If I buy a clip and show it to my playmate is that acceptable?

If it is, then what is the difference because I have the means and way to show that to any number of playmates?

The biggest problem is you are all choosing to try to turn this into a business, its not.

You may make a little money, but thats about it, I believe most other clip producers, are producing other content, and perhaps sales from everything is why they are still around doing this.

This copy right claim is just crap, once I buy that clip from you, its mine to do with it as i please, the only exception to that is to reproduce it and sell it, that I am not allowed to do, that would violate an actual copy right claim.

Showing this to people does not.

I understand the arguments here, but really if you are not making any money, then stop doing this.

I will be happy to read the arguments refuting me on this, so please make them, maybe in all this a solution will come from it.

Don't hate, I am just presenting another side to this.

Click to expand...

... wait wait... he actually hit the post button?

I am really sad to see this post, I have been buying clips and signing up for memberships for many years, and have probably spent thousands of £'s over those years contributing to and enjoying what has always been a great community with such variety. Therefore this piracy is also an insult to those of us who have always paid our way to enjoy such content.

I completely empathize with producers, and ultimately it is us that will be punished at the end of the day, as there will be less and less producers willing to make content. I have always thoroughly enjoyed tickle intensive and pleasure of the sole clips, so for them to stop is a real loss to this community.

I am sorry I have not contributed to how we can stop this, but I wanted show my support.

So, for example, I have a foot tickle tease video of Metal Mish (Size 13 feet) from a custom video I just produced. Haven't told anyone about it and haven't released it. Would it be a better idea for people to contact me directly for purchasing and only do transactions via US debit cards or Amazon Gift Card exchange and manually send each person the download or streaming link and password? Then account every individual that purchases my clip and if it is pirated, I would be able to eventually weed the person out by cross referencing my lists? As far as the complete idiot that posted that under-dog view nonsense.... I have found that the majority of the tickle community is highly intelligent. He, is not. Darwinism. Let it take its course. He is probably a child. Or a grown man living in his Mom's basement.

Piracy and its demotivating effect on producers is probably the reason I mainly buy older content (to fill in those gaps from when I was a minor). Newer content is getting produced less often (TickleIntensive hasn't produced in months for instance). That sucks. Not saying I'm entirely innocent here (usually I resort to piracy when there's no preview, but sometimes I do make that blind guess and once I'm familiar with a model I cease needing a preview), but I do buy many of my favourites if not alone to get a better resolution. I think I've spent 2,000 to 3,000 euros in total on clips over the course of years. Not sure whether that's a lot or not.

Kelli Lynn Sage said:

So, for example, I have a foot tickle tease video of Metal Mish (Size 13 feet) from a custom video I just produced. Haven't told anyone about it and haven't released it. Would it be a better idea for people to contact me directly for purchasing and only do transactions via US debit cards or Amazon Gift Card exchange and manually send each person the download or streaming link and password? Then account every individual that purchases my clip and if it is pirated, I would be able to eventually weed the person out by cross referencing my lists? As far as the complete idiot that posted that under-dog view nonsense.... I have found that the majority of the tickle community is highly intelligent. He, is not. Darwinism. Let it take its course. He is probably a child. Or a grown man living in his Mom's basement.

Click to expand...

Only if you want to make very little back on the clip. What you are suggesting is so many hoops that you'll lose 99% of your customers from inconvenience and impatience. You have to use your site and or clips4sale (or an alternative clip site) if you want to make any real money. As I outlined above, you can minimize piracy impact by culling the easy to find stuff regularly. The deeper stuff, don't bother with. Those people were never going to buy your content anyway. Piracy is just a fact of doing digital business and the best you can do is minimize it. Any other expectations are unreasonable and efforts to achieve them are fruitless.

I think the "not a business" claim is more like "how do you sell neurological stimulation?". Tickling has always been the squeeze for people in the community and "just tickling" to everyone else. You know, like just basic touching. Which is really all this is. Call me odd but I wouldn't pay for that feeling. But I've put my share in the bucket.

Comfort Eagle said:

But the "old standards"? Forget it. You'll have people on here making impassioned arguments on how not only will they not pay for anything, but you should go in expecting nobody will. This is the mindset you're working with, and as a result "the comunity" will not only not do anything to help you, huge chunks of it will take it upon themselves to do it to teach you some kind of stupid lesson.

Click to expand...

webfiend said:

The biggest problem is you are all choosing to try to turn this into a business, its not.

You may make a little money, but thats about it, I believe most other clip producers, are producing other content, and perhaps sales from everything is why they are still around doing this.

This copy right claim is just crap, once I buy that clip from you, its mine to do with it as i please, the only exception to that is to reproduce it and sell it, that I am not allowed to do, that would violate an actual copy right claim.

Showing this to people does not.

I understand the arguments here, but really if you are not making any money, then stop doing this.

Click to expand...

Wow. It took exactly five posts for someone to prove you right. Are you a wizard?

Look, I can't really say anything that hasn't already been said, other than I take a perverse bit of satisfaction in the knowledge that I make slightly more every month than the legendary Kelli Lynn Sage. Yay, validation!

Beyond that, what makes me see red is the doofuses who blithely cry that the reason they don't pay for content is because you don't deliver what they want, but they go strangely silent when you ask them exactly what that is, or set the bar juuuust slightly higher than what you did no matter what it was so that it's never enough. The previews always need to be longer, you should have given them preview PICs so they could decide to watch the previews, and please go out of your way to make nylon videos that we won't buy anyway?

And whenever you explain the realities of the business that proves whatever they said wrong, or that you do actually provide exactly what they asked for, they vanish for a week or two and then come back crying about the same damn thing as if you'd never said anything. It's like an autist's ritual. Or, y'know, a troll.

The odds of my making back my initial investment within the next three years is pretty slim. The only reason I'm still doing it at this point is because I do turn a small profit at the end of each year, and I enjoy working with the models and trying new things, like the "sawn in half" video I did a few months ago. But actively trying to service a community that goes out of its way to troll and harass the people that provide it with content? I'm just about done engaging with the TMF entirely. I'll take my chances on Instagram and PornHub.

Well I sit back amused by this, not one of you posted any real refutation of my arguments. Citing you tube for dmca claims is nonsense, they will take anything down if they don't want to deal with it. Proof of that is the constant supposed copyrighted material posted still, no real rhyme or reason as to what stays up or not.

Those of you that called me names, seriously that's your argument? That you posted that shows you are morons and simply can't read or use simple logic. If i can show it to my friend, I can show it to whomever i want, if you don't like that, tough shit, I bought the clip, its mine to do as I please as long as I don't try to reproduce it and sell copies of it.

The business thing is more a "are you thinking you are going to get rich doing this?" kinda question, if you make money good for you, most of you don't or you would not be bitching so much.

Some of you seem reasonable and made some good points, some of you seriously just stop it, your responses were embarassing.

And yes I did post this, come back with something reasoned, if you can't then shut the fuck up, you are not contributing to this.

I posted this to present the other side of the argument, I don't care that much about this, most of the material sucks and is not worth a dollar, how many recycled models do you have to see faking their way thru this to get that.

Quit bitching figure out something, that private link thing is probably a good idea, I think one you guys does something like that now.

As a former owner and producer of Hangtenfeet.com, I have found that C4S is the worst platform to sell your clips on. Better off buying your own software and doing a pay per stream and not allowing viewers to download your content. I found myself chasing other websites illegally copying my content to their websites, cutting out my disclosures and watermarks, and taking credit for the material! I will tell you something else, do not expect foot fetish / tickling clips to take care of you. It never will. With many of the producers I met along the way, the ones that did live off the income were constantly making many videos per week to bring in thousands of dollars a month but they were paying a third in models that really did not even have the fetish! Nothing is worse than viewing uninterested, un-excited, faker models in foot fetish / tickling videos. So my advice is this, if you make videos, buy streaming software and do it for fun. The money will be just enough to pay a utility bill. That is it.

webfiend said:

Citing you tube for dmca claims is nonsense

Click to expand...

Who did that? Did you not know PornHub honors DMCAs and takes down flagged content?

I don't think you did. Spend less time sitting back laughing and read copyright law, dipshit.

The Legendary Kelli Lynn Sage hasn't produced a clip in over 3 months and every other clip the Legendary Kelli Lynn Sage is in is owned by another company or man who doesn't even have the fetish. I only have 70 clips that I own the rights to. Most of them are pirated and on the internet for free. That is why I make 100 a month on clips for sale. But if I made your small dick feel bigger, I am happy for you I am focusing on sessions as I appreciate one on one personal interactions and thats where my money lays. Seeing as you have 5.3 more clips than I do, I would certainly hope you made more money. You may want to light your scenes better though, it may help your income.

SoleMates said:

Wow. It took exactly five posts for someone to prove you right. Are you a wizard?

Look, I can't really say anything that hasn't already been said, other than I take a perverse bit of satisfaction in the knowledge that I make slightly more every month than the legendary Kelli Lynn Sage. Yay, validation!

Beyond that, what makes me see red is the doofuses who blithely cry that the reason they don't pay for content is because you don't deliver what they want, but they go strangely silent when you ask them exactly what that is, or set the bar juuuust slightly higher than what you did no matter what it was so that it's never enough. The previews always need to be longer, you should have given them preview PICs so they could decide to watch the previews, and please go out of your way to make nylon videos that we won't buy anyway?

And whenever you explain the realities of the business that proves whatever they said wrong, or that you do actually provide exactly what they asked for, they vanish for a week or two and then come back crying about the same damn thing as if you'd never said anything. It's like an autist's ritual. Or, y'know, a troll.

The odds of my making back my initial investment within the next three years is pretty slim. The only reason I'm still doing it at this point is because I do turn a small profit at the end of each year, and I enjoy working with the models and trying new things, like the "sawn in half" video I did a few months ago. But actively trying to service a community that goes out of its way to troll and harass the people that provide it with content? I'm just about done engaging with the TMF entirely. I'll take my chances on Instagram and PornHub.

Click to expand...