Avenger314
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I wasn't being sarcastic.
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Please help. Piracy is wrong. It is killing us. We aren't rich like you think.
- Thread starter Kelli Lynn Sage
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Park CollegeO
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Yeah that doesn't surprise me. If you take a look at the "member activity" feature you'll find a lot of guest accounts or registered users with no posts browsing threads in the video clips section. No need to insult an entire community, that's just sloppy lazy!!
SoleMates
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I'm just spitballing here, but maybe it's because I
...and I see the actual numbers. Hell, let's go do that now, shall we?
My latest clip, "Total Tickle Torture", featuring one of my two best-sellers of all time, was released on 5/30/17. I posted a preview here on 6/6/17.
# of thread views: 1,178
Now, let's go to Clips4Sale.
# of hits today: 53
# of hits for the month of June: 577
# of hits total over the last week directly from the TMF, including through the posted preview thread: 17
# of sales of "Total Tickle Torture" since it was released: 1.
So don't give me that shit, guys. I know where my fucking numbers are coming from.
Bonus stats:
# of times Kim's been searched for since I released her preview on my site: at least once daily
# of people who've actually bought any of her clips after specifically searching for her: 0.
More bonus stats:
Amount of money Kim still needs to break even in spite of being one of my two best models of all time: ~$200.00
duderino84
2nd Level Orange Feather
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Definitely words of not caring. Definitely. Tell me again, who made you make videos? I know plenty of artists who push to their peak to release to find it up on YouTube within days. So what does complaining and plea bargaining achieve?
"Making money" (his terminology) is a hard bag any way it's opened. So regardless of his history I can see where he's coming from. I doubt anyone started making videos thinking "man, I gotta make a buck".
Dolphingirl9
TMF Novice
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Its most likely more, as once I'm familiar with a clip store, I go directly to c4s, or that store via their website.
Side note, is it possible to limit purchases to, or from certain countries? Russia, and most of the Eastern European countries are black holes when it comes to copyright laws...
But truth be told I, and i'm sure many other people here have been burned from single purchases from what looked like a homerun preview, only to have the 3, 5 second bursts of good tickle content be the entire preview, and the $10 clip be ruined by bad tickling, bad camera work, bad bondage, or a combination of all three. All things that do not cost a single dime once the shooting starts.
RealTickling is gone, Silvercherry is basically gone, ViperProductions is done, Tickle Abuse's actual tickling quality has wavered over the past year, Yaqi is gone (as creepy as he was, he tickled the crap out of his models... see a trend here?). Their recipe's for producing home run content isn't being reflected outside of a few current producers, French and Czech being my favorites. I'll purchase the odd clip from them on occasion, but I mostly simply rotate their two subscriptions every other month.
I guess what i'm getting at is there is less quality content out there now, however there's a ton more of just plain bland tickling content using rinse and repeat models, or a combination of the things that easily ruin a clip I mentioned above. So it's not exceedingly surprising people would rather just dink and dunk on pornhub. What I can't understand is the mentality of a lot of people to just blast content up on sites for others to see, half of the ones on Pornhub right now are not private collections that are being shared between select people, its just shotgunning content up there for all to see.
Park CollegeO
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BostonTickling
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Huge fan of your work sir! Was super into hangten back in the day. Legendary stuff brother.
tzimber2003
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WOW,
Another piracy thread.
well, ill try to summarize my thoughts abut this.
1. Piracy will never go away.
2. there is no way to protect our content (DRM was used long time ago by some producers and proven to be a failure. technologically, it did prevent copying of content but people didn't want to buy it.)
3. the idiot that claims that putting the clips on pornhub/other site is legit, you say that as long as you don't re crate a new copy of that video then uploading it to pronhub is just like watching it with friends,
i have a news flash for you genius, when you upload the clip to pornhub you do create another copy of it on purnhub servers. so even by your standards, you are breaking the law.
and for the money, another news flash for you, pornhub makes money from this videos ! they show commercials and i promise you that they make more than all producers here all together.
that is, by the way why they take down DMCA notices.
4. Making this videos is not my main job. i do it more for fun. but im not going to loos money over this. so i assume that like other producers, the time will come when making this videos will just be a pain in the ass and when that day comes they will simply stop making them. this will hurt both legit customer and leeches.
So, this is my suggestion to all of you that support pirated contend, enjoy it while you can !
because soon enough, the amount of new content will drop and it will drop hard.
believe me, that pornhub and all the other piracy blogs will not start creating new content by them selves and you my friends will have to find a new fetish to get your kink on.
big porn sites, and other monsters will not close probably, they have enough to keep it going. but small producers, and that goes for everyone in the tickling community (some are a bit bigger and some a bit smaller but there are no monsters here) will likely stop creating new content. think about it when you download your next pirated clip, because as you know, in this life Nothing Is free !
maybe now the producers are the ones to pay the bill. but sooner or later it will be you guys
Another piracy thread.
well, ill try to summarize my thoughts abut this.
1. Piracy will never go away.
2. there is no way to protect our content (DRM was used long time ago by some producers and proven to be a failure. technologically, it did prevent copying of content but people didn't want to buy it.)
3. the idiot that claims that putting the clips on pornhub/other site is legit, you say that as long as you don't re crate a new copy of that video then uploading it to pronhub is just like watching it with friends,
i have a news flash for you genius, when you upload the clip to pornhub you do create another copy of it on purnhub servers. so even by your standards, you are breaking the law.
and for the money, another news flash for you, pornhub makes money from this videos ! they show commercials and i promise you that they make more than all producers here all together.
that is, by the way why they take down DMCA notices.
4. Making this videos is not my main job. i do it more for fun. but im not going to loos money over this. so i assume that like other producers, the time will come when making this videos will just be a pain in the ass and when that day comes they will simply stop making them. this will hurt both legit customer and leeches.
So, this is my suggestion to all of you that support pirated contend, enjoy it while you can !
because soon enough, the amount of new content will drop and it will drop hard.
believe me, that pornhub and all the other piracy blogs will not start creating new content by them selves and you my friends will have to find a new fetish to get your kink on.
big porn sites, and other monsters will not close probably, they have enough to keep it going. but small producers, and that goes for everyone in the tickling community (some are a bit bigger and some a bit smaller but there are no monsters here) will likely stop creating new content. think about it when you download your next pirated clip, because as you know, in this life Nothing Is free !
maybe now the producers are the ones to pay the bill. but sooner or later it will be you guys
Here's my thoughts, since nobody asked for them. . .
1. I've been spending money for tickling content since I was first able to procure a credit card. Over the 15+ years, I imagine I've spent easily a couple thousand dollars on clips. For some, that's an ungodly amount of money, while for others, that's about normal. I'm merely stating a fact.
2. As time has gone on, I've found myself drawn to the producers who go out of their way to make things easier on their customers. Tickle Abuse is obviously the standard here, at least back when it was good. Once or twice a month I would buy a month's subscription, download anything new I wanted that had come out since the last time, and then be done for a while. Tommy obviously wasn't all about making every last dollar, but he did get (I'm guessing) a ton of subscriptions, so I guess he did very well.
I also enjoyed James Darke's deal he gave to frequent customers, which was a buy one-get one sort of thing. I might not have found his videos to be my favorites in all the land, but in terms of "bang for the buck", it was a great deal.
3. As time has gone on, it seems like more and more people (models or companies) are really doing this as a career path, so those fan-friendly folk have drifted away. I've paid for a custom or two and enjoy those producers who give discounts via Paypal, but I will say that my purchasing has decreased significantly over the last few years.
I won't fault anyone for trying to make as much money as they can via fetish clips, but I also can empathize with those who aren't keen (or able) to spend the amount of cash required to "keep up".
4. I feel like we're just waiting for the next trend, and streaming sites aren't it.
One idea, and I think the aforementioned Mr. Darke was pondering this at some point, but if producers started doing sales more individually - Leaving Clips4Sale and going to Paypal, for example - they could customize the length of their clips.
I'm selling this new clip to 2 people. Person A's clip is going to be 10 minutes and 52 seconds in length, while Person B's will be 11 minutes and 3 seconds. That way, unless someone takes the time to do some video editing (if they even know how), if I see an 11:03 video show up on a pirate site, I know who to go after.
Something does have to give, though.
1. I've been spending money for tickling content since I was first able to procure a credit card. Over the 15+ years, I imagine I've spent easily a couple thousand dollars on clips. For some, that's an ungodly amount of money, while for others, that's about normal. I'm merely stating a fact.
2. As time has gone on, I've found myself drawn to the producers who go out of their way to make things easier on their customers. Tickle Abuse is obviously the standard here, at least back when it was good. Once or twice a month I would buy a month's subscription, download anything new I wanted that had come out since the last time, and then be done for a while. Tommy obviously wasn't all about making every last dollar, but he did get (I'm guessing) a ton of subscriptions, so I guess he did very well.
I also enjoyed James Darke's deal he gave to frequent customers, which was a buy one-get one sort of thing. I might not have found his videos to be my favorites in all the land, but in terms of "bang for the buck", it was a great deal.
3. As time has gone on, it seems like more and more people (models or companies) are really doing this as a career path, so those fan-friendly folk have drifted away. I've paid for a custom or two and enjoy those producers who give discounts via Paypal, but I will say that my purchasing has decreased significantly over the last few years.
I won't fault anyone for trying to make as much money as they can via fetish clips, but I also can empathize with those who aren't keen (or able) to spend the amount of cash required to "keep up".
4. I feel like we're just waiting for the next trend, and streaming sites aren't it.
One idea, and I think the aforementioned Mr. Darke was pondering this at some point, but if producers started doing sales more individually - Leaving Clips4Sale and going to Paypal, for example - they could customize the length of their clips.
I'm selling this new clip to 2 people. Person A's clip is going to be 10 minutes and 52 seconds in length, while Person B's will be 11 minutes and 3 seconds. That way, unless someone takes the time to do some video editing (if they even know how), if I see an 11:03 video show up on a pirate site, I know who to go after.
Something does have to give, though.
I am embarrassed for you son.
lioclips
TMF Master
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This is along the lines of what I'm thinking of doing. The level and nature of the piracy as far as tickling materials are concerned, has left me with zero desire to update my store. My little store however has been supported by an awesome and very loyal following over the years and I'm very appreciative of them. I have new material I'm sure they would enjoy and support, yet I don't relish the triple assault of seeing new clips downloaded - charged back/refunded - only to be monetized on pirate sites. I don't see another way to release new material other than by direct sales with my established customer base. I'd keep C4S open, but not release new material there. Yes, there would be a marginal decrease in sales, but most of that would be made up by not having to give a cut to C4S, plus I could then also offer the types of discounts and rewards for repeat business, etc. C4S doesn't allow. It's a somewhat substantial revenue stream but not a significant one for me so any loss is inconsequential. I still have fun shooting and hanging out with the cool folks I work with, and this is the only way I can think of which won't hold the responsible majority liable for what the minority (at least as it pertains to my material), is doing.
Oh and FWIW, my all-time most popular model Kendra can now be added to the list of models that have been driven away from shooting this type of material.
laughinggaszone
4th Level Orange Feather
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That's really subjective. There are plenty of people that think our stuff is wretched and yet there are plenty who love it so much that we've lasted 20 years.
Certainly many beloved companies have come and gone. Not everything can be gold and nothing lasts forever.
laughinggaszone
4th Level Orange Feather
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You can't use Paypal for any kind of adult digital content. The producer's making vids with no nudity might skate by, but they would always be
in danger of Paypal deciding they were close enough and shut them down. Clips4sale, even after all these years, has no mechanism to have sales.
I've spoken with the owner about it several times.
There is nothing stopping producers from customizing the length of their clips on their own. We've done it from the beginning. Our videos average 15-20
minutes and are neatly divided into 3-4 five minutes sequences composed of a capture/laughing gas scene, upper body tickling scene and a lower body/foot
tickling scene(a 4th scene or more would be to showcase another fetish or another model). This works because those that don't want or can't afford the whole video, can just buy the part they want or what they can afford. It annoys me when producers don't break up clips, especially 30-45 minute clips, and I have to buy the whole thing when I may only want a portion of it.
Young, old, black, white, red, yellow, Rich, poor, middleclass it doesn't matter. The person that tills the soil deserves the fruit of their labors. I commend Miss Sage on her OP. She simply asked that those who watch and consume the goods and services that she produces to compensate her fairly. She, and the others that have posted here, put their money, time, effort, and energy into producing the content that we all love. They are not asking anything that any one of us wouldn't DEMAND!
Moreover, asking for the fair market value of a good or service isn't "Trying to make as much money as possible etc. etc. etc." Kelli pointed out that she wouldn't charge an individual 100 dollars a clip, but in reality, as has been pointed out, for two or three models you could be talking about her putting out up front 500-1500 dollars up front not counting whatever overhead, photography, videography, etc. its beyond reasonable to look for just compensation for the base cost of producing a good or service and then some form of compensation as incentive to continue producing the good or service "profit." That's not a dirty word, that's what ensures the supply of a good or service. As someone said earlier, we can't reasonably expect producers to loose money just for the thrill of it.
As for "people not having enough money in their budget." To buy every clip that comes out, yeh. But everyone on this board has 10 dollars. If someone really isn't in that position then they have a lot more to worry about than coming here to defame the people who underwrite this site and the proliferation of material that we all enjoy.
I will not hold myself blameless, that would be a lie. But I can do more. I will do more. Others should do the same.
Moreover, asking for the fair market value of a good or service isn't "Trying to make as much money as possible etc. etc. etc." Kelli pointed out that she wouldn't charge an individual 100 dollars a clip, but in reality, as has been pointed out, for two or three models you could be talking about her putting out up front 500-1500 dollars up front not counting whatever overhead, photography, videography, etc. its beyond reasonable to look for just compensation for the base cost of producing a good or service and then some form of compensation as incentive to continue producing the good or service "profit." That's not a dirty word, that's what ensures the supply of a good or service. As someone said earlier, we can't reasonably expect producers to loose money just for the thrill of it.
As for "people not having enough money in their budget." To buy every clip that comes out, yeh. But everyone on this board has 10 dollars. If someone really isn't in that position then they have a lot more to worry about than coming here to defame the people who underwrite this site and the proliferation of material that we all enjoy.
I will not hold myself blameless, that would be a lie. But I can do more. I will do more. Others should do the same.
1. VivianLove is an alleged male troll trying to sell novels.
2. As far as I can tell, the arc of your whole argument is, essentially, "Help stop piracy because go fuck yourself. Feel sorry for me because you're all pathetic losers. I work hard so I deserve high numbers, because stop being a basement dweller. Cash me ousside, safe space snowflake." If I'm offering constructive criticism, I'm not exactly certain how "chick with serious issues" is supposed to resonate with some of us.
3. No offense, but something just doesn't ring true about a call for help that's followed by baseless, pointless insults. You're the one who made the thread, not anyone else here. It's not a matter of feelings, it's a matter of cognitive dissonance, and it's a proven fact that you can catch more flies with sugar than shit.
4. I don't pirate on a purely moral basis, but after the dumpster fire of paranoid ramblings that is this thread, I'd be willing to bet some do it out of spite.
5. I've just contributed to this shit show, and yes, I do feel fulfilled.
All that said, I respect your work, Kelli, and would like to think that this is just extreme frustration over an extremely frustrating problem. And I might even act the same way in your position. But...man...the delivery...
laughinggaszone
4th Level Orange Feather
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Clearly you've never heard the phrase: "Like flies on shit."
Just a more crass way of saying you catch more with honey than vinegar. Though now that you mention it, you can catch a ton of flies with shit
VivianLove
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Ummm seriously after reading all this you all are RIDICULOUS! it's like I said! Pay for your own entertainment, and don't be a content stealing asshole! Problem solved! Think about it next time you're whacking it to someone's hard worked for content but you won't.
RavensFan52
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Piracy aint going anywhere. The music industry finally figured that out and struck deals with streaming. Theres still a few dinosaurs that refuse streaming services. They think people gonna pay 10 bucks just for their album. Good luck to them. This is 2017. Its funny, just last week I was in a car with a bunch of my friends and we past by an adult movie store and one of them said "who still PAYS for porn" . And we all started cracking up. The majority are not paying 15 bucks for porn. Aint gonna happen.Ive always felt clips are too high. I understand why producers would be mad but if you thought you were gonna make big money on tickling clips in this era, I just think its a unrealistic expectation. Just my thoughts
Obviously people do still pay for it - otherwise it would cease to exist. If you look at the mainstream porn sites now, they are huge operations often with bases all across Europe and the US. Memberships are extremely expensive and they have sneaky ways of milking more money from customers...it's a lot more than the few $ people use to spend on adult movies - just look at Brazzers or any of the huge porn networks that have come to dominate the market and see for yourself. When those people who do pay for porn stop paying for it, you and your friends will be saying 'remember when porn was a thing?' - the same thing will happen with tickling and other fetish content. Costs will go up as the income is squeezed by piracy, and the larger sites will be the only ones that survive, thus limiting the choice for the consumer.
Porn will always exist in one form or another of course, but adult entertainment is an expensive business...the less money there is in the industry, the less quality and choice there will be. One way the industry is already changing is that as sites and producers close down, people end up ordering customs (which may not get released to the public) or paying models directly for their fetish content (I'm not talking about the OP who is a content producer herself). I've known some of my models to be paid upwards of $1000 for a fairly lame tickle scene shot in their bedroom on an iPhone with almost no care for how it looks, or sounds, bad bondage, no lighting etc. Some models can sell phone selfies for $5 a pic while people will complain about paying the same amount for a tickle clip with multiple models that cost hundreds of $$ to produce. The way things stand, you can expect to be paying more for less in the future.
Also, the music industry didn't strike any deals really. They just started selling online and reduced their physical sales. Some of the early distribution networks used by pirates folded and people switched to using torrents and Youtube etc which are still a problem for the music industry. It responded to the financial losses by firing A&R people, closing the smaller, more independent labels that they owned and not taking chances on traditional album deals with fresh artists, whilst pumping even more money into the generic mainstream music that sells. Nowadays, album deals are dictated by talent shows and the like as they are guaranteed money makers, whilst independent artists have almost no chance unless they appear on the X factor.
laughinggaszone
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Who pays for the car you and your friends were in? The gas that goes in your car? The food you guys ate? Those things are not free. You say "who pays" and "it's 2017". These are words used by a generation who grew up with digital content at their finger tips...24/7...for free. Of course, they never asked why it was free. It just was. And now, the idea of actually paying for something that most of them have had for their entire life, for free, is completely alien to them. The fact that they had it for free because it was stolen apparently doesn't matter. It is you and they who has an unrealistic expectation. That the hard work of people should simply be given to them because they've always gotten it for free, regardless of how they got it. It's people like you who are the first to cry foul when it happens to you. And it will. I've met people who grew up in the digital age...that pirated content with the same attitude you have. Then they went out in the world and found out what it was like when their hard work was pirated. When they were let go from a job they spent years going to school to get only to be told that the company was downsizing or folding because piracy was making it impossible to pay the overhead of running the company. And if it doesn't happen to you, it's going to happen to your wife or your kids, because you perpetuate this unrealistic expectation of not paying for things in the digital age. Your attitude will eventually come back to bite you and yours in the ass.
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duderino84
2nd Level Orange Feather
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*hint* she's an actor! She's acting! Quiet on the set!
Between her thread count and the interaction you yourself noticed, I don't think there's much real about her here. An exasperated call for help with cursing out her fans. All it looks like.
duderino84
2nd Level Orange Feather
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And no more of this "jewel case is more expensive than the actual content, mark it up!" tripe.
The thing about music and fans and sales and really all media is you're trying to sell a dreamlike experience that someone's already had. Look at Black Sabbath and compare with Cannibal Corpse/Lamb of God/Messhuggah. It's all about a progressively more intense iteration of facets that people latch onto.
I'm not sure the people she's cursing out could be called her fans.
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