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Use of the American flag in clips

Tenebrae

Tenebrae

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Mar 21, 2005
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I was looking at the ads at the top, and a clip caught my attention: there was a very beautiful blonde tied down on a table and enduring tickle torture at the hands of another beautiful blonde... while wearing a bikini with an American flag pattern printed on it.

My first thought was that it was cute. But then a question occurred to me: is that legal in America? I am damn sure that here in China you could get arrested for it, or at least fined, for improper use of a national symbol. Granted, maybe the law is more lax in the US (first amendment and all), but you do have laws which protect the national symbols, don't you?

Also, at the very least, wouldn't a producer using the flag or other symbolic Americana in what is essentially porn expose him/herself to the risk of facing boycott from the more nationalist oriented among his/her customer base? Or am I overthinking this?

If some of you, especially the Americans, could help me clear that up, I'd really appreciate!
 
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IIRC, it's discouraged to take an actual flag and use it for anything. A flag printed towel or bandanna or whatever is a-ok, or if it isn't it's far too prevalent in the culture to every realistically enforce any kind of penalty for doing it.

Legally however I think you can do anything with a flag, up to and including wiping your ass with it. You're just "not supposed to".
 
Yes, you cannot use a FLAG itself. But, flag-prints (on clothing, etc.) are legal. Although, I can remember a time when even those were not legal. Kinda to the point we don't really give a .... beaver-structure.... about ourselves as a country.
 
That has no place in clips and is disrespectful to even attempt it. The Chinese have the right perspective on this for sure.
 
Dude, it's just a piece of coloured cloth. Who gives a shit.
 
There is a Flag Code that prohibits the use of the flag as clothing (presumably the whole thing) but also says "No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform." The Flag Code is part of US law (4 U.S.C. §8(d) and (i)), but there are no penalties for violating it. The Supreme Court has said that any penalties would be unconstitutional.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/8
 
Thank you all for your responses (and particular thanks for rdhd's à propos use of my favorite expression :Kiss2:)! That does clarify it.

I am also of the view that national symbols have to be handled with care. Not necessarily ban their use altogether, but I am not sure that tickling clips or porn is an appropriate place to display them. Each county has its own laws, and its own perceptions of offensive or positive uses of the flag. After all, when Rocky was wearing those American colors-themed shorts to fight the Russian guy, I do not think that many people took offense, neither at the time nor now. And yet, shorts is where one puts his junk, so it can hardly be thought as the right thing to do.

In China, for sure it is restrictive. There are not many legal ways to use the flag and its colors; in their patriotism some Chinese have gone a little bit over the top, and somewhat desecrated the national symbols, so the law protecting them has hardened. There was a case lately with a woman, I think it was in Cannes, who was wearing a dress colored in the flag's theme; and she caught a lot of heat for that. To be honest, it was hardly looking good, even though her intentions were probably to pay homage to her country. But then again, when I saw Gisele Bündchen promoting the world cup in Brazil, naked and barefoot but wrapped in the Brazilian flag, I thought that it was a beautiful display of patriotism (and I am sure that few in Brazil saw any harm, if any). It is a complicated and somewhat subjective issue.

Gisele-Bündchen-Feet-1366316.jpg
 
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P_Bustleton said:
There is a Flag Code that prohibits the use of the flag as clothing (presumably the whole thing) but also says "No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform." The Flag Code is part of US law (4 U.S.C. §8(d) and (i)), but there are no penalties for violating it. The Supreme Court has said that any penalties would be unconstitutional.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/4/8
Click to expand...

Precisely this. Because punishing people for not showing proper respect to a national symbol is the antithesis of a free society.
 
You also have to remember that the USA has a very strong culture of people speaking out against their government. It's a country founded by people who disagreed with how the government did things. I think China is a very different place. Not as bad as North Korea, but definitely not a country where people speak their mind with no fear. In the USA, a beautiful woman in a flag print bikini isn't seen as an insult to the flag or the country.
 
MrPeanut said:
Dude, it's just a piece of coloured cloth. Who gives a shit.
Click to expand...

It's a colored piece of cloth that many, many people gave their lives for here! Well, I for one, give a shit! I'll give you some slack since you're from The Netherlands, and you don't seem to have the respect for your flag that many of us here have for ours. And Mr. P_Bustleton has the proper information about our flag. I'll agree, the code could stand an update, but as far as the flag itself, there's some things you just don't do. Facsimiles on the other hand, well...
 
I'm surprised that you've haven't regularly seen a nationalistic bikini for advertising/marketing.

Somehow I have a feeling the festival/stadium venues go out of the way to find certain body types.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCbbKskNzN8 3:42 Swedish bikini at Netherlands festival

Americans are generally more concerned by countercultural imagery...everything from the Confederate flag to Che Guevara tees.

Swedish vodka Absolut advertised with a precession map of Mexico for the Mexican market. (shapes around Lake Michigan & Michigan thoroughly confused me...I'd take a wild guess and say they messed up other parts too)

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/laplaza/2008/04/mexico-reconque.html
 
Philip_2006 said:
I'm surprised that you've haven't regularly seen a nationalistic bikini for advertising/marketing.
Click to expand...

Actually, where I am from you never see that, and where I live it's illegal :p So either way, no I haven't seen that this much. And in clips also it is kind of rare, and it made me wonder.

Philip_2006 said:
Americans are generally more concerned by countercultural imagery...everything from the Confederate flag to Che Guevara tees.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Che Guevara t-shirts are also a staple in France but understandably Confederate imagery isn't. I am damn sure that you couldn't find 10 Frenchmen who would recognize the flag of the Confederation :blaugh: Although, I thought "counterculture" referred only to the left-wing protest movement born from the 60's opposition to the war in Vietnam? Those were hardly pro-South, but maybe my understanding of the term "counterculture" is not as inclusive as it should be?
 
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Back when I was in college, the US Supreme Court ruled that you're allowed to BURN the flag so long as the burning will not put people in danger. We have people in this country who create "art" in which our flag is thrown on the floor of a museum. Wearing clothing with flag patterns is rather tame by comparison. Hell, in these times, I'm happy to see ANY kind of respect for our country by the younger generations.
 
In America, even burning the American Flag is considered protected free speech (obscene and unnecessary in my opinion but legal and protected by the constitution all the same.) So I doubt the government will be doing any hand wringing over its use in a fetish video.

Whether it's appropriate or not is matter of opinion, and I really don't feel strongly one way or the other. I suppose if I were a producer I'd avoid it as to not needlessly stir the pot.

As a side note, I'd be remiss, if I didn't compliment the OP for his keen eye for detail. Not just on this thread, but in general.
 
Respect for the American flag in any respect is something that should be respected at any point!
 
When I was in the USAF I was taught that the stars should be in the upper left corner.
That is when viewed from one side such as on a wall.
On a hanging flag the side with the stars in the upper left would the front.
Today when I see women in bikini flags I think either yes she got it right or too bad the flag is not displayed correctly.

FlagBikini.jpg
 
Darth Sidious said:
The fact you'd even say something that ignorant shows how little respect and understanding you have on the matter. Just sad...
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That was actually a statement of fact. The flag, any flag, is just colored cloth; like a piece of paper money is just cotton and linen fibers with ink on it. The both only have the artificial significance and symbolism that we put on them.
Don't get me wrong, I have plenty of respect for the flag (even to the point of telling a former boss that he needed to either have the flag outside of his business taken down every night, or lit up), but that's my own choice. It is, in fact, just a piece of colored cloth.
 
Wolf said:
That was actually a statement of fact. The flag, any flag, is just colored cloth; like a piece of paper money is just cotton and linen fibers with ink on it. The both only have the artificial significance and symbolism that we put on them.
Don't get me wrong, I have plenty of respect for the flag (even to the point of telling a former boss that he needed to either have the flag outside of his business taken down every night, or lit up), but that's my own choice. It is, in fact, just a piece of colored cloth.
Click to expand...

I agree. I choose to respect the flag myself, but it sort flies in the face of reason and common sense that people DEMAND that other adhere to THIER standard of behavior in regards to flag etiquette and then call them names for expressing a different view. A flag mind you, that represents a country where freedom of speech and by extension the freedom of dissent are protected.
 
Alliekat said:
I agree. I choose to respect the flag myself, but it sort flies in the face of reason and common sense that people DEMAND that other adhere to THIER standard of behavior in regards to flag etiquette and then call them names for expressing a different view. A flag mind you, that represents a country where freedom of speech and by extension the freedom of dissent are protected.
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Yeah, the irony of wishing that we were more like China, and could force people to respect our flag because it's a symbol of Freedom is pretty comical.
But we're veering off-topic here, and to the original point;

The models aren't wearing flags. They're wearing patterns that are similar to the flag, like millions of other materials and pieces of merchandise out there.
 
Wolf said:
Yeah, the irony of wishing that we were more like China, and could force people to respect our flag because it's a symbol of Freedom is pretty comical.
But we're veering off-topic here, and to the original point;

The models aren't wearing flags. They're wearing patterns that are similar to the flag, like millions of other materials and pieces of merchandise out there.
Click to expand...

The true irony is the people who complain the loudest about "political correctness" get really upset over stuff like this, which I really see no difference. It's still getting offended over something rather petty.

But more to the point, you're exactly right. It's not like they took an actual flag and made clothing from it. I really don't see a a problem with it
 
Wolf said:
Yeah, the irony of wishing that we were more like China, and could force people to respect our flag because it's a symbol of Freedom is pretty comical.
But we're veering off-topic here, and to the original point;

The models aren't wearing flags. They're wearing patterns that are similar to the flag, like millions of other materials and pieces of merchandise out there.
Click to expand...

Well, I understand that the USA are a very, very free country. Actually, even by most European democracies' standards, America sort of stands out. I freely recognize for instance that the USA is much more democratic than my own country. I acknowledged that in my first post, where I surmised that I imagined the law to be lax towards the use of the national colors.

However you do not need to be a communist authoritarian regime to place restrictions upon uses of national symbols. I know that Germany or Italy for example (both undoubtedly democratic countries) have laws that protect the national symbols, not restricted to but including the flag. Try to diss the Queen in Great Britain, and see if you can make it home safe afterwards... My point is, there are people who think laws are necessary for said protection, others (apparently like you) that they are not. It's an ongoing debate, but I do not think that the US would suddenly have become more autocratic if they went that way... especially since the law already exists.

I just wanted to ask where the Americans stood on that issue. After all, you are in general a rather patriotic bunch~ It is one of those cases where the revolutionary side clashes with the aspiration for freedom; you are probably familiar with Saint-Just's famous quote during the French Revolution: "There can be no liberty for the enemies of liberty!"
 
Tenebrae said:
Well, I understand that the USA are a very, very free country. Actually, even by most European democracies' standards, America sort of stands out. I freely recognize for instance that the USA is much more democratic than my own country. I acknowledged that in my first post, where I surmised that I imagined the law to be lax towards the use of the national colors.

However you do not need to be a communist authoritarian regime to place restrictions upon uses of national symbols. I know that Germany or Italy for example (both undoubtedly democratic countries) have laws that protect the national symbols, not restricted to but including the flag. Try to diss the Queen in Great Britain, and see if you can make it home safe afterwards... My point is, there are people who think laws are necessary for said protection, others (apparently like you) that they are not. It's an ongoing debate, but I do not think that the US would suddenly have become more autocratic if they went that way... especially since the law already exists.

I just wanted to ask where the Americans stood on that issue. After all, you are in general a rather patriotic bunch~ It is one of those cases where the revolutionary side clashes with the aspiration for freedom; you are probably familiar with Saint-Just's famous quote during the French Revolution: "There can be no liberty for the enemies of liberty!"
Click to expand...

The reference to China was made by someone else in this thread:

Darth Sidious said:
That has no place in clips and is disrespectful to even attempt it. The Chinese have the right perspective on this for sure.
Click to expand...
There's really not much sense in arguing with me over it.
 
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