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Producers who are less than honest with models

U

uberkitzel

TMF Novice
Joined
Aug 3, 2008
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63
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Any thoughts on producers who mislead models? I know several women who have worked with a certain producer who has been less than honest with models. For example, recruiting models for supposedly membership sites only to sell their work on clips for sale (which are downloaded and very often shared all over the web) after they've signed the standard generic release forms. Or even worse, this producer leaks entire clips on YouTube for the whole world to see, including on occasion friends, family and potential employers. Is this producer a deceptive scumbag or are these girls naive and "asking for it". Is it cool to lie to models? Or is this particular producer kind of a turd? Not gonna name names, but if you know where I live you can put 2&2 together. Lying to models: Cool or not?
 
uberkitzel said:
Any thoughts on producers who mislead models? I know several women who have worked with a certain producer who has been less than honest with models. For example, recruiting models for supposedly membership sites only to sell their work on clips for sale (which are downloaded and very often shared all over the web) after they've signed the standard generic release forms. Or even worse, this producer leaks entire clips on YouTube for the whole world to see, including on occasion friends, family and potential employers. Is this producer a deceptive scumbag or are these girls naive and "asking for it". Is it cool to lie to models? Or is this particular producer kind of a turd? Not gonna name names, but if you know where I live you can put 2&2 together. Lying to models: Cool or not?
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Deceptive douchebag. You must always be transparent to models with what they are doing and why. Where is it going and who will watch it. Now yes this should be common knowledge but at the same time why lie as a producer? you want models to return not hate you and slander you. But alas some people are just foolish. it's unfortunate really.
 
uberkitzel said:
Any thoughts on producers who mislead models? I know several women who have worked with a certain producer who has been less than honest with models. For example, recruiting models for supposedly membership sites only to sell their work on clips for sale (which are downloaded and very often shared all over the web) after they've signed the standard generic release forms. Or even worse, this producer leaks entire clips on YouTube for the whole world to see, including on occasion friends, family and potential employers. Is this producer a deceptive scumbag or are these girls naive and "asking for it". Is it cool to lie to models? Or is this particular producer kind of a turd? Not gonna name names, but if you know where I live you can put 2&2 together. Lying to models: Cool or not?
Click to expand...

Deceptive douchebag. You must always be transparent to models with what they are doing and why. Where is it going and who will watch it. Now yes this should be common knowledge but at the same time why lie as a producer? you want models to return not hate you and slander you. But alas some people are just foolish. it's unfortunate really.
 
Given my experience with models, I will not say that this person is not engaging in questionable practices, based on what you have stated, but the old adage: "There are two sides to every story," very much applies. I've met a lot of models who don't pay attention to the paperwork they sign or pay attention to what they're being told. This isn't every model or even a majority, but it is a high percentage. A lot of models don't know anything about the business side of producing videos. Usually, these are the girl next door amateurs or models that do just a couple of videos and disappear, but I have encountered "professional" models who sign things without reading them and have no idea what their contractual obligations are or the rights they're signing away. You have to remember, a lot of models are very young, naive and sometimes even willfully ignorant. For many, this is more a lifestyle than a business they work in. The models that are professional don't make those mistakes or if they did, it was early in their careers and they learned to navigate the business side of adult entertainment.
 
If I order a custom and specify it stays private then it stays private.
Can a model do that?
 
LaMagra said:
If I order a custom and specify it stays private then it stays private.
Can a model do that?
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I've never had a customer specify he wanted the video to remain private. If he did, that would drive the cost up as I couldn't make anything off the video and give the customer a lower rate. Models for commercial videos almost never request a video remain private. If they did, the video would only be for private consumption and the producer couldn't make any money off of it. If both parties, for whatever reason, agree that the video they make is private, then yes. The problem of course becomes, do both parties understand and honor the agreement? Was it a verbal agreement (which can hold weight, but is harder to prove) or a signed contract that specifies the details? I see the "private" occur more with online custom fetish art. A lot of pieces are kept private (for whatever reason). This doesn't usually affect the price that the artist charges, but it can.
 
Oh I never do that. If the producer can use it then I say use it. Mine are long anyway!
I did have one producer try sending me a release that said it was her intellectual content and I was signing away my claim to it. I told her my idea my intellect but she could do as she wanted with it. Ended up not closing the deal.
 
LaMagra said:
Oh I never do that. If the producer can use it then I say use it. Mine are long anyway!
I did have one producer try sending me a release that said it was her intellectual content and I was signing away my claim to it. I told her my idea my intellect but she could do as she wanted with it. Ended up not closing the deal.
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Strictly speaking, if you sign the release, you are relinquishing any ownership to the ideas you submitted to have the custom video made. This is not Hollywood. Customers approach producers to create fantasy fulfilled content. A standard boilerplate release spells out where ownership lays.
I mentioned running into this problem in another post. Amateur writers approaching me to have a custom video made. I give them a quote
and they agree to it and tell me I can pay them through PayPal. I can pay them? They assume that since its their idea, I can pay them to make a movie I didn't approach them about, on my dime. I politely decline.
 
LaMagra said:
Lol I know I am paying you but I aint signing a release
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Then I don't make a video for that customer. I can't speak for other producers, but I dot my i's and cross my t's. Ownership and rights have to be clearly spelled out and understood by all parties involved: producer, model and customer. Going on the honor system of a gentleman's agreement is a bad idea. It can come back and bite you in the ass.
 
Never had an issue with a producer. You do realize by signing over intellectual rights I cannot take my idea to another producer..
 
LaMagra said:
Never had an issue with a producer. You do realize by signing over intellectual rights I cannot take my idea to another producer..
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Yes, but this is almost never (and has never been for me) an issue. Customers just want to get their fantasy created. They aren't interested in the rights as much as having their fantasy given form. Also, it's usually a one and done. You don't tend to have customers having the same exact fantasy created multiple times by different producers (although a lot of videos do look the same by nature of their simplicity). But, hypothetically, lets say that I didn't make a video to the satisfaction of the customer. He isn't mad or requesting his money back. It just didn't get his juices working so he wants to try to have someone else give it a go. While, strictly speaking, I have the rights to that story, I wouldn't care if it were remade (and again, I don't know any fetish producers who would). I'm simply protecting my end from customers and models coming back and telling me I can no longer use the video. As I said before, this isn't Hollywood and you can't apply legal distinctions in an apples to apples way, even if you are technically correct.
 
I tell all the models in my videos beforehand that I plan to release long previews on my pornhub channel (since this is where I get most interest to purchase full version clips or customs).

I've had some not agree to it and leave/not show up to planned shoots.

I also twice now, and the second one was very recent, had a model call me up and ask me to not publish the video and drop the entire thing. Although you would be in every right to carry on as planned in that situation given that the model had agreed beforehand and signed the release form, I obliged both times with a condition to get back the fees paid, of course.
 
Park CollegeO said:
I tell all the models in my videos beforehand that I plan to release long previews on my pornhub channel (since this is where I get most interest to purchase full version clips or customs).

I've had some not agree to it and leave/not show up to planned shoots.

I also twice now, and the second one was very recent, had a model call me up and ask me to not publish the video and drop the entire thing. Although you would be in every right to carry on as planned in that situation given that the model had agreed beforehand and signed the release form, I obliged both times with a condition to get back the fees paid, of course.
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This is why I only deal with professional models. This waffling is too much of a hassle. You get a fair amount of amateur models who have no idea what they are getting into and change their minds after the fact. Unfortunately, once that Pandora's box is open, good luck putting anything back in it.
 
laughinggaszone said:
This is not Hollywood.

I mentioned running into this problem in another post. Amateur writers approaching me to have a custom video made. I give them a quote
and they agree to it and tell me I can pay them through PayPal. I can pay them? They assume that since its their idea, I can pay them to make a movie I didn't approach them about, on my dime. I politely decline.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry but this is so funny I had to highlight it. :laughhard:

Honestly, I had to re-read this paragraph twice to make sure I hadn't misread it. So there are people who ask you essentially to pay them for you to make their customs? Hiring models, filming the scenes, essentially doing all the work? Ahhh, if only it worked that way, lol. I'd own a fairly large collection of custom clips AND I'd be a millionaire :blaugh: :rolleyes:

I never get enough of those "business side" posts. You and Solemates really rule these with your anecdotes~ There's a whole universe behind those clips that we'd never hear about without y'all.

:man:
 
laughinggaszone said:
This is why I only deal with professional models. This waffling is too much of a hassle. You get a fair amount of amateur models who have no idea what they are getting into and change their minds after the fact. Unfortunately, once that Pandora's box is open, good luck putting anything back in it.
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I do work with professional models, but sometimes there are limitations due to the fact that there aren't that many in Detroit.

Again I wouldn't have taken it down had I not been paid back the cost of the shoot.
 
Tenebrae said:
I'm sorry but this is so funny I had to highlight it. :laughhard:

Honestly, I had to re-read this paragraph twice to make sure I hadn't misread it. So there are people who ask you essentially to pay them for you to make their customs? Hiring models, filming the scenes, essentially doing all the work? Ahhh, if only it worked that way, lol. I'd own a fairly large collection of custom clips AND I'd be a millionaire :blaugh: :rolleyes:

I never get enough of those "business side" posts. You and Solemates really rule these with your anecdotes~ There's a whole universe behind those clips that we'd never hear about without y'all.

:man:
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Yeah...what's that saying? "I could write a book."
 
Park CollegeO said:
I do work with professional models, but sometimes there are limitations due to the fact that there aren't that many in Detroit.

Again I wouldn't have taken it down had I not been paid back the cost of the shoot.
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Yeah, we all gotta deal with the limitations. But if I have a choice, its pros all the way. Too much headache with the amateur crowd.
 
laughinggaszone said:
Yeah...what's that saying? "I could write a book."
Click to expand...

Couple weeks back I had someone email me wanting me to BUY a clip for them from Another studio lol. Like i'm just trying to imagine what is their mindset while writing this email that they actually believe there is a chance of it working out? LMAO


rrumo9.jpg
 
Park CollegeO said:
Couple weeks back I had someone email me wanting me to BUY a clip for them from Another studio lol. Like i'm just trying to imagine what is their mindset while writing this email that they actually believe there is a chance of it working out? LMAO


rrumo9.jpg
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That is one I have not gotten. What I have gotten, when DVDs were still a thing (remember those kids??), was someone (usually from Eastern Europe) wanting to buy some DVDs and send me $1000 (through paypal) to mail $1000 US cash with the DVDs to their friend/relative/insert whomever. Yeah. I do that and the Paypal account gets charged back and I'm out $1000.
 
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