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Proof the video industry is suffering

Solipsism is a helluva drug.



Case in point. You JUST answered your own question. Sometimes I wonder if half of you even think through what you’re typing.

Producers use scenarios and models that are making money. Clearly I don’t like Octopus but I’m in the minority on that one but I’m not sitting here wondering why he exists like you obviously are. Maybe those models you don't like vastly outsold the ones that did and you’re just too closed-minded to understand that. I mean, baby oil and hairbrushes disgust me but you don’t see me sitting here wondering why videos are full of them and accusing producers of being idiots insisting on putting out videos that “nobody” (IE, me) likes. Use your fucking brains, people.

I don't think you're intending to come across condescending, but with your... approach to this conversion I feel like maybe you might do well with an alternative viewpoint.

I've followed you and your output for a while now and I've always pulled for you, though I don't go the full "producer" route I make my own stuff and I understand the issues involved with trying to create content. Over the years I've made mentions of you updating certain technical aspects, maybe rethinking some blocking, things like this. I've watched as other people have given you similar advice. I have never seen you receive this advice with anything short of immediate, usually straight up indignant dismissal of the advice. When the discussion of the "stagnation of the medium" comes up, much like it is now, you're the first to pipe up complaining. When you talk about the traffic you think you're owed, you instantly point to your social media followers, apparently not realizing all of us that have these accounts have roughly amount of traffic on them (not even considering how many of those people are teenagers with the apps who probably couldn't and wouldn't buy tickleporn in the first place...) and not seeming to consider that those platforms probably shouldn't be used to gauge your genuine fanbase considering how big re-hosting/"tickle general" accounts are.

You state over and over again you have no delusions of grandeur, or that you assume you're better than other studios. But time and time again you make it apparent you really do think you're consistently turning out gold and are baffled that it's not moving hundreds of copies, and you're clearly frustrate that your audience is apparently failing you by not keeping you profitable. If this isn't the case, then I'm not sure how you can't realize how your repeated frustrations are being perceived by people. Again let me be very clear, I'm well aware of the idea that you're going to work on some material and try to at least break even on it only to have it not quite play out the way you expected it to. However I want you to look at what I did with production, and then go back and read what I've written about how you've approached "evolving" or your response to criticism or advice. Go back and look at the newer studios that are doing better than you and compare their earliest stuff to what they do now.

I'm sincerely asking, without any intended sarcasm or attack; how long can it be literally everyone else's fault except your own that you're not where you feel you deserve to be in the pecking order?
 
Really? The only ones I've ever heard admit that they do are you, Sidious, and Tommy. Last Laugh (I think? I'd have to go back and check) said that even when he broke the Top 10 on Clips4Sale he only got a few extra hundred a month. I mean, I live in California. I'd have to clear three grand in sales just to pay my rent.

I think you're assuming everyone gets the same traffic and throughput that you do. I certainly don't. My store gets as many hits in a month as you get in a day in spite of my Preview threads here getting thousands of views. Even when I was advertising on the sidebar it didn't bring in that kind of traffic.

Now, you could totally say "has it occurred to you that your stuff just isn't any good?", but I'd offer two points to counter that. One, that as people keep pointing out, tickling is a niche, limited market. If people are spending all of their money at your studio, they're not going to buy from anyone else. Two, I have nearly a thousand followers on Instagram. People who are obsessed enough with my stuff to Like every post I make, and in some cases go back and Like all six hundred posts in my history, or send me creepy messages, or any number of a hundred other things. I'm pretty sure that unless these people are complete idiots, there is enough of a quality to my material to engage users. If it wasn't any good, this wouldn't be happening. And yet, none of these people think it'd be a good idea to drop me a fiver every once in a while. If even ten percent of my Instagram followers bought one clip a month my sales would skyrocket over a hundredfold.

I mean, I've literally produced the exact content that people posted on this forum that they wanted to see, and pointed those people directly to it and they still didn't buy it. I can show you the threads and the sales figures to back that up, too.

But yeah, maybe my stuff's just crap and these guys'll Like anything with toes in it. All the more reason for me to pack it in and call it a day. But I still think you, turtleboy, have a skewed idea of what it's like to operate in today's market. You got in on the ground floor and built a customer base when your only competition was Jeff, Elliot, and that chick who ran Solefully Yours and since people would rather cut off an arm than try something new, they'll be your customers until the end of time.

Ok. I get that you struggle with sales and that's clearly a sore point. I'm not going to get in to the ins and outs of why that is the case since I genuinely don't know what's going on with your store. I would however, point out that the reverse is also true - i.e. don't assume that because you're finding it hard to drum up business that everyone else has the same experience. Sure, lots of new stores struggle for lots of different reasons but others flourish. I'll be honest, I don't buy clips and I really don't pay close attention to what goes on with other producers (not because I don't like them, but because I really just stick to doing my own thing). I have noticed other guys pop up and seem to do well though - Tickle Room, the Russian tickling guy, Tickle Therapy. They all seem to have established themselves and stuck around. I'm sure there are others that I'm not aware of.

A number of other producers have been around for years and are still staying up there too - Tickle Abuse, FTKL, James Darke, French Tickling, Tickling Submission etc. Tickle Intensive was very popular when he was putting out clips (I think he's stopped?) The point is, probably all of those stores are making a living out of it, and many others besides. Bear in mind that some of us run membership sites too and/or have other stores too and that also factors into how producers make money. C4S is a big site but member sites and business from customs also plays a part - it's all part of the same business at the end of the day.

As for my store. I'm not the dinosaur that you clearly think I am, since I came around wayyy after all of those guys you mentioned! I actually started making clips years after Real Tickling, Tickle Abuse, JD, Czech/Tickling Submission, Stryker, French Tickling, The Last Laugh, Tickle Central etc. Those stores and many other were well established, and there was plenty of competition. I simply didn't see other stores as competition since I wasn't setting out to be like them or to make the same amount of money (I never intended to do this full time). I will admit that I was lucky to be based in the UK and able to present models that weren't in tickling videos - that was my purpose from the word go. Like everyone though, I had to build it gradually from scratch. And like most producers I was running a very amateur operation when I started. I could only shoot one model a month back then - and I had a full time job too! I've had to introduce every single girl I've worked with to the world of tickling and it hasn't always been easy. I've taken quite a few risks, a few heavy losses and pumped large amounts of money and time into it...but it's also been a blast!
 
A couple of things to add…

With only a hundred thousand or so tickle videos having been released and at least several dozens of possible tickling scenarios why does it seem producers are repeating the same scenarios.

I think you kind of answered your own question here. I.e. with a hundred thousand or so tickle vids out there and only a few dozen potential scenarios, wouldn't you expect some repetition?


When I find a model that I enjoy, I don’t care if she’s been in 20 – 30 videos, I want more.
If she’s retired bring her back I don’t care if it’s been 5 years and she’s moved on.

On the other hand if I have see a model more than a dozen times and she still does not suit my taste, why do you keep using her?
Get someone new. If I’m not a fan I can’t imagine other people are buying her videos.

The problem is that other people will have a completely different view of which models are great should be brought back. If you're not a fan, someone else may be and the girl that you think is amazing may not actually sell that well.
 
But, you wanna talk about taste being subjective? Comfort Eagle's been mentioning Octopus a few times now as a new guy that's doing okay, so I went and checked his studio out. Of all the creepy, cheaply-produced, skeevy crap I've ever seen, that's some of the worst. I wouldn't pay that guy a dime for his content. But, that said, I'm not the kind of narcissistic asshole

Um, yeah you are. You're the exact kind of narcissistic asshole. Doesn't matter what you spew after. Keep convincing yourself that other producers do better than you because they're "cheap/creepy".
 
A couple of things to add…

With only a hundred thousand or so tickle videos having been released and at least several dozens of possible tickling scenarios why does it seem producers are repeating the same scenarios.
When I find a model that I enjoy, I don’t care if she’s been in 20 – 30 videos, I want more.
If she’s retired bring her back I don’t care if it’s been 5 years and she’s moved on.

On the other hand if I have see a model more than a dozen times and she still does not suit my taste, why do you keep using her?
Get someone new. If I’m not a fan I can’t imagine other people are buying her videos.

If it was that easy to get the models to come back from video retirement I think all producers would have done so. I think they are smart enough to realize and some have even been wiped out because of it: Popular Models leaving is one of the major reasons of loss of revenues.
 
One of the types of videos I see too often is the girl tied to a massage table. I get those are probably the cheapest bondage furniture to obtain, but they're overdone. That or spread eagle on a bed. Fine, I'm sure other people like it, but what I'd rather see and it's I swear at most 1/10 of bed scenes is the ankles tied securely to the bed frame like Tickle Intensive did. He overdid his thing and so it got to be old hat, but man I'm a sucker for that bondage scenario. With spread eagle the girl's able to fight the tickler to some extent, but with ankles anchored those feet aren't going anywhere. And again dungeon type scenes. No one makes those, or at least has for a very long time.
 
I think this thread has only proven that there is a group of folks who have decided their personal preferences are no longer being served. And that fact may well have nothing to do with the material which is currently being produced and made available via different outlets.
 
I think this thread has only proven that there is a group of folks who have decided their personal preferences are no longer being served. And that fact may well have nothing to do with the material which is currently being produced and made available via different outlets.

When these topics like this one keep coming up here on TMF, it all funnels down to one point: People who purchase tickle videos want specifically what they want. That being the case, to those who want what they only want, have one of these tickling producers make the kind of video you want. Simple. Rather than complain about how the material is losing steam over time, have someone make you a tickle video. Of course, you'll have to pay whatever costs the producer wants you to pay for his time and efforts to give you what you want, but that appears to be the only way people who complain will be satisfied (maybe). Tickling producers know which types of tickling are best sellers, which is why you see the same types of tickling on PH or tube sites. There are only so many ways to tie up and tickle someone, just as their is with having sex with a partner.

On the subject of C4S, What I've noticed with them is that they keep open tickling stores that haven't updated since.....2007....2009...2010?? Why is this?? If a company/producer decides to pack it in, then their store should be closed up. Or, if they aren't updating their content in a timely matter, they shouldn't waste people's time with occupying a space on C4S. This is where the hobbyist should be separated from the serious producers wanting to provide tickling content. Of the newer tickling producers that have come onto the scene, the one I've liked is Random Sole Encounters. I like his video work, he has really nice looking ticklee's (he's even tickled his aunt and sister, both are nice looking). He doesn't go nuts on the tickling, the ticklee's seem to like his personality even though they're tied up to be tickled.
 
On the subject of C4S, What I've noticed with them is that they keep open tickling stores that haven't updated since.....2007....2009...2010?? Why is this?? If a company/producer decides to pack it in, then their store should be closed up. Or, if they aren't updating their content in a timely matter, they shouldn't waste people's time with occupying a space on C4S.

Just because a producer has stopped producing doesn't mean they shouldn't keep profiting off of their work. It also doesn't mean people no longer have in interest in that company, hell I've bought clips from stores that haven't produced in a while. Looking at today's top 50 tickling studios I see at least three or four that I know of off the top of my head that haven't produced a clip in several months or years.
 
On the subject of C4S, What I've noticed with them is that they keep open tickling stores that haven't updated since.....2007....2009...2010?? Why is this?? If a company/producer decides to pack it in, then their store should be closed up. Or, if they aren't updating their content in a timely matter, they shouldn't waste people's time with occupying a space on C4S. This is where the hobbyist should be separated from the serious producers wanting to provide tickling content. Of the newer tickling producers that have come onto the scene, the one I've liked is Random Sole Encounters. I like his video work, he has really nice looking ticklee's (he's even tickled his aunt and sister, both are nice looking). He doesn't go nuts on the tickling, the ticklee's seem to like his personality even though they're tied up to be tickled.

It's interesting because C4S has always had a rule that stores should update at least monthly or risk having their store shut down - they clearly just don't bother to enforce it. It makes sense when you think about it though since they are still taking 40% sales from each store, and a lot of (particularly larger) stores will continue to make some sales even if they stand dormant for months or years. I guess C4S see the logic in leaving stores open as all those small sales each month probably amount to a lot when you consider all the thousands of 'dead' stores.
 
Boy a certain someone sure stopped mouthing off all of a sudden didn't he...
 
It's interesting because C4S has always had a rule that stores should update at least monthly or risk having their store shut down - they clearly just don't bother to enforce it. It makes sense when you think about it though since they are still taking 40% sales from each store, and a lot of (particularly larger) stores will continue to make some sales even if they stand dormant for months or years. I guess C4S see the logic in leaving stores open as all those small sales each month probably amount to a lot when you consider all the thousands of 'dead' stores.

And C4S was the be-all-end-all. ....
 
@didates26 You're right - the Pornhub pirates are an issue. Usually someone will use a stolen CC and within a week or two after you put it on sale - it's on pornhub. It's sad to put a ton of time and money into something and have someone do that for no apparent reason other than to be a dick. C4S doesn’t help and a shaming system is in place if you do, so fighting it is useless.

I won’t comment on other companies, other than to say I understand the format getting stale. You need a little fear to produce great tickle torture and the lack of that power dynamic is what’s creating the need for fake laughter.

Take look at a few of my previews… based on what you said, you might like them.
 
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Featherlite, you would probably have to speak with someone on the c4s side of things to get an answer. As turtle pointed out, they do have a policy in place. I can imagine a few different reasons as to why stores aren't taken down: they could still be turning a profit, weeding through downed stores might take more effort than its worth to invest, or maybe they're just lucky enough to not incur much of a cost by maintaining these additional storefronts. Or, you know, nobody on their end really cares or is invested enough to bother. It's difficult to say.

That said, I don't think there's much of a problem with more storefronts? If you're only talking about virtual realestate, well, that's limitless and the impact one store's existence has on another is negligible at best, I imagine. Most of the algorithms around that site seem to center around new product or popular product, and so these defunct stores likely aren't going to draw in new customers.

As for physical storage, I suspect that tickling related content is not C4S's biggest draw. Its not unreasonable to suspect that these stores are dealt with in blocks based on tags. I suspect the return on space of shutting down defunct tickling stores would be negligible compared to, hm. I don't know, something more popular? Of course that assumes that these stores are managed in blocks based on interest.

If I had to be completely honest, tickling stores probably bring in more than enough revenue to just add additional hard drive space to the servers for C4S, and that that same amount of money spent towards locating and scouring defunct stores probably won't have as much of a return. Now, I'm also assuming that a store without updates would have its data completely scrubbed from c4s, which it might not, and if it did, then re-opening said store would be, hm, problematic?

Well, like I said I don't have nearly enough information to properly answer why these stores aren't being taken off of the site. I can only suppose this or that based on my experience with servers and other storefronts.

**I came up with a better reason. If these stores are not available by legitimate means, it absolutely encourages piracy. How else are you to acquire the material?
 
From my own journey as a producer of tickle videos I can share what I have observed:

1. Repetitive Models: During the first few years of production it seemed so easy to find girl next door types who had never done any fetish work and did the gig for fun/spare money vs making it a career. In recent years most of the interest I received are from full time fetish models who have worked for several fetish studios. What caused that shift? I'm not sure.

2. Piracy Offers Convenience: How we consume media has changed. For many, paying for media is something we don't feel the need to do, unless its through a subscription service. Gone are the days of book stores, music outlets, and Blockbuster video. Society prefers quicker one stop sites like YouTube, Spotify, Amazon, Netfix, etc. This is why pirated sites and PornHub are successful. Yes, they offer free content. However, they also offer something else...convenience. It can be argued that sites like PornHub make it easier to find what you are looking for vs clips4sale.

3. Over saturation: The tickle audience isn't as large as we producers would like. Finding new content isn't as special as it used to be. The fact that people can just whip out their cell phones and post tickling content on you tube for free doesn't help. It's not just studios that are overabundant... its the content itself. There are tickling videos in circulation from 20 years ago to the present that our community now has access to.

With a lack of fresh faces who are really ticklish, a culture that drifts towards one stop free/convenient media, and an over saturation of clips it's no wonder that the industry is on the decline for those of us who create content and expect a financial return.

LiB Productions

http://laughterisbeautiful.org
 
From my own journey as a producer of tickle videos I can share what I have observed:

1. Repetitive Models: During the first few years of production it seemed so easy to find girl next door types who had never done any fetish work and did the gig for fun/spare money vs making it a career. In recent years most of the interest I received are from full time fetish models who have worked for several fetish studios. What caused that shift? I'm not sure.

I think you may have answered your own question. You're wondering why the girl next door types don't do fetish videos anymore and why the industry is slowly being over run by fetish models. But then you mentioned how easy it is for YouTube and pirate sites nowadays. I think that's why the girls next door don't do it anymore. Every video that anyone makes ends up on Pornhub eventually. So the girls next door that are only doing it for extra money don't want their coworkers at the mortgage company or law firm where they work to see them on Pornhub, YouTube, Dailymotion, etc. being strapped down and tickled, having their toes sucked or whatever. Before pirate sites became a big problem these videos would most likely only be seen by a small number of people. Basically the people who buy them. Now millions can see a video whether they purchased it or not so there's a greater chance that someone they know will see it.
 
Now you take issue with other people even discussing C4S - did you have a preferred website you'd like them to talk about instead?

I just find it amusing that it happens to be the site that people focus their efforts on. But really, keep trying.
 
I think you may have answered your own question. You're wondering why the girl next door types don't do fetish videos anymore and why the industry is slowly being over run by fetish models. But then you mentioned how easy it is for YouTube and pirate sites nowadays. I think that's why the girls next door don't do it anymore. Every video that anyone makes ends up on Pornhub eventually. So the girls next door that are only doing it for extra money don't want their coworkers at the mortgage company or law firm where they work to see them on Pornhub, YouTube, Dailymotion, etc. being strapped down and tickled, having their toes sucked or whatever. Before pirate sites became a big problem these videos would most likely only be seen by a small number of people. Basically the people who buy them. Now millions can see a video whether they purchased it or not so there's a greater chance that someone they know will see it.
Exactly. And unfortunately that issue has been debated and discussed on this website for many years. A lot of studios have had several models that quit due to that exact problem. Some models have actually lost their real world jobs because of it. I actually don't understand how that is legal but whatever.
 
Exactly. And unfortunately that issue has been debated and discussed on this website for many years. A lot of studios have had several models that quit due to that exact problem. Some models have actually lost their real world jobs because of it. I actually don't understand how that is legal but whatever.

Some employers just don't like it unfortunately and with many jobs it can be problem (school teacher, for example) giving an employer grounds to fire someone. In this country, if you're in a probationary period for a new job they can let you go without giving a reason. That happened to the partner of one of my models who did some F/M vids for me. A pic from one of them got posted on Facebook or somewhere...a girl in his workplace reported it and he got pulled into the office and fired! He was only doing a desk job and wasn't employed in a sensitive area that would be affected by something like that.
 
I just find it amusing that it happens to be the site that people focus their efforts on. But really, keep trying.

...because it's the largest overall supplier of tickling material and the site that most producers use? It was also in the question I was responding to. I don't really get where you're going with this tbh.

On the subject of C4S, What I've noticed with them is that they keep open tickling stores that haven't updated since.....2007....2009...2010?? Why is this??
 
I think you may have answered your own question. You're wondering why the girl next door types don't do fetish videos anymore and why the industry is slowly being over run by fetish models. But then you mentioned how easy it is for YouTube and pirate sites nowadays. I think that's why the girls next door don't do it anymore. Every video that anyone makes ends up on Pornhub eventually. So the girls next door that are only doing it for extra money don't want their coworkers at the mortgage company or law firm where they work to see them on Pornhub, YouTube, Dailymotion, etc. being strapped down and tickled, having their toes sucked or whatever. Before pirate sites became a big problem these videos would most likely only be seen by a small number of people. Basically the people who buy them. Now millions can see a video whether they purchased it or not so there's a greater chance that someone they know will see it.

A fair point and one that is probably valid. Over a decade ago the non fetish models were much more likely to sign up for a gig with a producer because the material would be bought from that producer's website. Now that clip could appear anywhere.

Another possibility would be that if a prospective model researched the tickle video industry they would discover that tickle fetish videos appear more porn-like with forced orgasms, foot jobs, nudity, etc and showing up on sites like pornhub.

The risk of getting found out, especially on a site with material like pornhub, hasn't helped us to recruit the non-fetish girl next door type models that was more common in years past. The battle of piracy, and trying to find non fetish models that don't appear with every other producer, our industry is indeed more challenging than ever.

LiB Productions

http://laughterisbeautiful.org
 
I have about 5 favorite restaurants. Those restaurants serve about 8 dishes I adore. For years I patronize these restaurants happily. Then over several months, the menus at all 5 change, and they no longer offer my favorite choices. The new or other dishes are just not that good. I used to go out to eat here 4 or 5 times a month, but now I haven't been to those places in a year. I've only checked a couple of other menus online and only read the Yelp reviews of my friends about other restaurants in a 2 mile radius. Even though the quarterly profits for those 5 establishments is virtually unchanged - I'm positive the restaurant industry is suffering. They all make the same dishes the same way. The restaurants I used to love no longer make the dishes I enjoy most, so it must be this way.

Of course, this isn't a clean 1:1 analogy, because for one, we pay for food at restaurants.
 
...because it's the largest overall supplier of tickling material and the site that most producers use? It was also in the question I was responding to. I don't really get where you're going with this tbh.

Realistically that's not that large of an industry for a lot of obscure fetish videos. And considering I pointed up that Average Joe (even tho a million or two visit the site that's not an overwhelming volume) doesn't really know or care to know about C4S, it's not ironic that C4S themselves doesn't appear to care how often a shop is or isn't updated. At the rate the business is going if it's this draining to produce for C4S to facilitate business maybe tickling videos are going to remain to be a hard sale maybe it's worth it for smaller producers to buddy up with Patreon? We know Comfort Eagle does.
 
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