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Stop Calling Grown Women "Girls"

chicago

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Joined
Apr 11, 2003
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Bloop

This may get moved to P&R but I hope at least some of those outside that subforum are able to view it before then.
 
I honestly don't think it is meant as a "putdown"

If one can't call a woman a "girl", then why is it okay to say.

"My girlfriend" or "My boyfriend".

Logically, I would say that any woman over the age of.. 30.. should probably be referred to as "Woman", even if a guy that's dating her still says.

"X woman (Whatever her name is) is my "girlfriend".
 
I'll admit it's a habit I'm trying really hard to break. I've never meant it as a put down, but if women are telling us they don't like it, then I'll make an effort to respect that. Thanks for sharing the video!
 
I honestly don't think it is meant as a "putdown"

If one can't call a woman a "girl", then why is it okay to say.

"My girlfriend" or "My boyfriend".

Logically, I would say that any woman over the age of.. 30.. should probably be referred to as "Woman", even if a guy that's dating her still says.

"X woman (Whatever her name is) is my "girlfriend".

Please re-watch the video if you have seen it at all. It explains why using the term "girl" to describe a grown woman (any female over the age of 18) can affect and shape mind-frames, even subconsciously and even if no ill intent is meant. In my opinion, one doesn't describe grown men as boys because it comes across as degrading. That said, if there are other terms for boyfriend / girlfriend I'd be fine with that too. For instance, I refer to my other half as Rhino, my man, etc.

I find the term "guys" when used when referring to men very troubling...

"Guys" is not a term that implies age, but if you do feel that way, I would recommend correcting those around you gently and politely to use other terms.

Good girl :D

I found this incredibly patronizing and demeaning.
 
I'll admit it's a habit I'm trying really hard to break. I've never meant it as a put down, but if women are telling us they don't like it, then I'll make an effort to respect that. Thanks for sharing the video!

If ‘likes’ were available, I’d use it for this.
I’ve never quite understood the defensiveness from some people when someone else asks to not use a word or term around them. It takes the least amount of effort.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
If ‘likes’ were available, I’d use it for this.
I’ve never quite understood the defensiveness from some people when someone else asks to not use a word or term around them. It takes the least amount of effort.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Very well put. It seems like a perfectly valid request and a very reasonable expectation on their end.
 
I watched the video.

I see your point, chicago, as well as of course the woman in the video who was describing her feelings.

I have no argument with either, and I can see why both the woman in the video, and you, feel as you do.
 
I appreciate the receptiveness of the posts here. Thanks y'all :)
 
First thing I have to say is this:

(The woman in the video is completely full of shit by 13 seconds in. 13 seconds. Lying.
She's at a bar with two guys and one says to the other, looking across the bar - look at that girl, she's beautiful.
The way she said it, the voice she used to mimic the man tells it all. No way in Hell she thought he was talking about a child, that's a lie. She's not an idiot, she knows men call women girls. She did look around wondering about a child, total fucking lie. 13 seconds in. Sorry, I have to do this. See? Lying Matters, words have meaning.)

I struggled with this myself a few years ago, probably right after hitting forty. "Girls" just didn't work anymore and though I'd still use "girlfriend" if it came up, probably, and respond to it in the affirmative or even use it myself if I was using it to clarify something or explain something...it's not how I think anymore. Now I say things like, "I'm going out with a woman I know..." And I hate it because it makes everyone sound older. Me, her, both of us now sound over 40 and over the hill. I know it's silly but it's but for me, it's the truth.

We have to be very careful with all this. Honestly, I think it's kind of ridiculous and we're all victims of offense-sensitivity. We choose to be offended, or at least that's what all the major religions and high-end philosophies teach us...no one can offend me unless I let 'em. And like that, and I rarely choose to be offended. This world certainly needs an overhaul, our society is completely fucked and causes people to murder themselves with drugs and hang themselves in fucking bathrooms. If there are urgent vocabulary changes needing to be made I'm down, and if that has a huge effect on the world - all the better.

What I'm not so sure about is picking out tiny things one by one that maybe don't seem so important, and using those tiny things to separate ourselves...to find alienation where none really exists. We talk about being "woke" these days, about opening our eyes or having our eyes opened, so when our eyes are opened to a certain small thing, like a word, a word that in itself is not offensive until it's applied to the wrong people, (which is what we're talking about,) then it becomes a bit dodgy.

It scares me that we keep finding new ways to offend each other...things we're doing wrong, things to be concerned about that you didn't even realize were wrong until someone pointed it out to you. Then you feel like an idiot...or a dick, or you think the person who pointed it out is an idiot or a dick...or worse. We're separating ourselves into smaller and smaller special interests groups and each one is demanding to pursue it's happiness at the expense of everyone else. It's scary and it's all because of the internet.1

Have to say, very disappointed with Myim Bialik...that lie was obvious and silly and I respect the woman otherwise, I really do. But that made a dent in my respect for her, it sure did.
 
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Most of this, IrvingKrebb, is privileged people with a lot of time on their hands who whine and complain about utterly trivial nonsense....on the internet.

In real life if they voiced these complaints to people, those people would laugh in their face, and if you kept on, they'd walk away from them and they would spend a lot of time alone.

Obviously the people who post these trivial complaints will insist they have thousands of friends, and can barely leave the house with all the friends waiting in their yard to meet them.

I know people who act like these perpetually offended types in real life...and ALL of them are alone and miserable. People complain about them. Co-workers don't want to work around them,
because you can't tell jokes in their presence, they are always "correcting" you about some stupid bullshit, and when they're not around, there is much laughter and fun. When people have to tolerate them,
everyone just waits until they leave the room so they can be themselves.

Hell, yesterday I watched a female nurse address a male patient as "babe," and the patient didn't bat an eye lash and they just did their thing. People will call me "honey," or "boy" and I could care less, because I
know they obviously mean no harm. I mean, how miserable must life be to walk around on a hair trigger, just waiting to be offended by every word everyone says?

I have utter contempt for most of them, because they've made life miserable for so many people, but when I'm in a generous mood, I feel kind of sad for them. They have accepted the perpetual victim life style,
and most I know are single and profoundly unhappy when they're not making people feel bad about themselves. "You've offended me! Don't you feel bad about yourself?!! You must feel so bad to be such a horrible inferior
person because you offended me!!!" Who the hell wants to deal with that at any time?

But then these people want significant others, and since no one would date that much drama, they whine...every....day....on Facebook ....about not having any guys like them. (Or girls for the men, I know one or two
virtue signalers that non-stop complain about their lack of women ….in between posts about how much they "understaaand" women.)

I think what's going to slowly happen is, people will leave this "lifestyle" of victimhood behind and re-engage the real world. Meanwhile, there will still be the whiny folks online who live that way and be miserable, but they'll be
left in bubbles, everyone agreeing with everyone else because the normal folks are out there living and being normal and having a blast.
 
It's peculiar how it feels different with different languages while the meaning of those words doesn't really change at all. In my own language Finnish I feel perfectly comfortable referring to fellow grown men as "poika" (boy) but it feels awkward as hell to use word "tyttö" (girl) about grown women. In English it feels different and I got no idea why. Sure it's not a good habit (it's very visible in lots of fictional stuff I write here and elsewhere, but I think it's different and even intentional since submission and unequal roles are part of it anyways), and thus far in spoken English discussions I've pretty much avoided using it because I think what I'm saying more before talking than when I'm writing.
 
I've become very conscious of this the last few years, in large part because it felt weird ascribing the term 'girl' to women that were around my age or older. They aren't girls, haven't been girls for a long time. And it isn't like I see many people in their early to mid-thirties called 'boys'. Do I say it though? Yeah. But that's to be expected of unconscious usage, as more conscious terms I use, like gal, woman, or dudette sort of fit much more comfortably. The line of delineation can sometimes be blurry...but eh. I don't know.

It's something I can definitely see why someone can take offense to it, or find it patronizing, though.

First thing I have to say is this:

(The woman in the video is completely full of shit by 13 seconds in. 13 seconds. Lying.
She's at a bar with two guys and one says to the other, looking across the bar - look at that girl, she's beautiful.
The way she said it, the voice she used to mimic the man tells it all. No way in Hell she thought he was talking about a child, that's a lie. She's not an idiot, she knows men call women girls. She did look around wondering about a child, total fucking lie. 13 seconds in. Sorry, I have to do this. See? Lying Matters, words have meaning.)

I struggled with this myself a few years ago, probably right after hitting forty. "Girls" just didn't work anymore and though I'd still use "girlfriend" if it came up, probably, and respond to it in the affirmative or even use it myself if I was using it to clarify something or explain something...it's not how I think anymore. Now I say things like, "I'm going out with a woman I know..." And I hate it because it makes everyone sound older. Me, her, both of us now sound over 40 and over the hill. I know it's silly but it's but for me, it's the truth.

We have to be very careful with all this. Honestly, I think it's kind of ridiculous and we're all victims of offense-sensitivity. We choose to be offended, or at least that's what all the major religions and high-end philosophies teach us...no one can offend me unless I let 'em. And like that, and I rarely choose to be offended. This world certainly needs an overhaul, our society is completely fucked and causes people to murder themselves with drugs and hang themselves in fucking bathrooms. If there are urgent vocabulary changes needing to be made I'm down, and if that has a huge effect on the world - all the better.

What I'm not so sure about is picking out tiny things one by one that maybe don't seem so important, and using those tiny things to separate ourselves...to find alienation where none really exists. We talk about being "woke" these days, about opening our eyes or having our eyes opened, so when our eyes are opened to a certain small thing, like a word, a word that in itself is not offensive until it's applied to the wrong people, (which is what we're talking about,) then it becomes a bit dodgy.

It scares me that we keep finding new ways to offend each other...things we're doing wrong, things to be concerned about that you didn't even realize were wrong until someone pointed it out to you. Then you feel like an idiot...or a dick, or you think the person who pointed it out is an idiot or a dick...or worse. We're separating ourselves into smaller and smaller special interests groups and each one is demanding to pursue it's happiness at the expense of everyone else. It's scary and it's all because of the internet.1

Have to say, very disappointed with Myim Bialik...that lie was obvious and silly and I respect the woman otherwise, I really do. But that made a dent in my respect for her, it sure did.

How about we pump the brakes here a little bit.

First of all, stop being facetious. Your attempt to make an apples to apples comparison through offense, to try and poke holes in the notion of "words have meaning", not only rings utterly hollow because it is a veiled attempt to discredit the argument solely on a rhetorical device, but also plays up the hypocrisy of your entire post by showcasing a legitimate level of offense all while going on a rant about how today's PC culture society is too soft and needs to have a course correction. This, in the plainest terms, is total inane bullshit, and you know it. There's nothing worse than a guy getting offended because someone else is offended, and you know why? Because it shows that you're the ACTUAL snowflake.

It's as though there needs to be a challenge to the 'audacity' of Bialik's words, and I don't know why. You may not agree with it, but if you want to start positing this point, I'd like to know your background in language study, in literary theory, because what she's saying is base level stuff. Words have meaning, and there is a viability to status, conscious or unconsciously, that is ingrained into society as a result. It works this way with all sorts of terminology. This isn't some deep dive into Foucault or Derrida. This doesn't even get into the whole odd value you seem to ascribe to the culture of the day, as though your worldview and understanding triumphs all. To be frank, it showcases a lot more offense to go so deep into this wormhole to defend some sort of sense of self, of personal value, which you are doing, than posting the video.

Most of this, IrvingKrebb, is privileged people with a lot of time on their hands who whine and complain about utterly trivial nonsense....on the internet.

In real life if they voiced these complaints to people, those people would laugh in their face, and if you kept on, they'd walk away from them and they would spend a lot of time alone.

Obviously the people who post these trivial complaints will insist they have thousands of friends, and can barely leave the house with all the friends waiting in their yard to meet them.

I know people who act like these perpetually offended types in real life...and ALL of them are alone and miserable. People complain about them. Co-workers don't want to work around them,
because you can't tell jokes in their presence, they are always "correcting" you about some stupid bullshit, and when they're not around, there is much laughter and fun. When people have to tolerate them,
everyone just waits until they leave the room so they can be themselves.

Hell, yesterday I watched a female nurse address a male patient as "babe," and the patient didn't bat an eye lash and they just did their thing. People will call me "honey," or "boy" and I could care less, because I
know they obviously mean no harm. I mean, how miserable must life be to walk around on a hair trigger, just waiting to be offended by every word everyone says?

I have utter contempt for most of them, because they've made life miserable for so many people, but when I'm in a generous mood, I feel kind of sad for them. They have accepted the perpetual victim life style,
and most I know are single and profoundly unhappy when they're not making people feel bad about themselves. "You've offended me! Don't you feel bad about yourself?!! You must feel so bad to be such a horrible inferior
person because you offended me!!!" Who the hell wants to deal with that at any time?

But then these people want significant others, and since no one would date that much drama, they whine...every....day....on Facebook ....about not having any guys like them. (Or girls for the men, I know one or two
virtue signalers that non-stop complain about their lack of women ….in between posts about how much they "understaaand" women.)

I think what's going to slowly happen is, people will leave this "lifestyle" of victimhood behind and re-engage the real world. Meanwhile, there will still be the whiny folks online who live that way and be miserable, but they'll be
left in bubbles, everyone agreeing with everyone else because the normal folks are out there living and being normal and having a blast.

Another response that is literally only about PC culture and the miserableness of 'offended' people, not understanding the dramatic irony of what they're doing. This one was much more difficult to wring some meaning out of; your post is almost wholly nonsequitar to personal experience and personal belief, all done in a method to try and diminish the credibility of whole swathes of people as being less than because of something so minute. To be frank, the rant on knowing all these sorts of people seems like a rather personal problem, one that deserves a lot more introspection, because it's clear there's some kind of cocksure self convincing of extreme personal value that reads like self aggrandizing flimflam.
 
I can't argue with a guy who uses the word "snowflake" seriously. You win. Sorry Chicago wouldn't go out with you partner.
 
I don't see why it's so hard to just call people what they want to be called, or refrain from calling them what they don't want to be called.
 
I don't see why it's so hard to just call people what they want to be called, or refrain from calling them what they don't want to be called.

Because ten different people will give you ten different, often contradictory, ways to call them? And that's not even counting the delusional people who "identify" as whatever trendy things they conceived in that little sick brain of theirs? Some identify as vegetables, or attack helicopters; imagine that.

Because if you start worrying about offending people before you say anything, you'll end up saying nothing at all because someone, somewhere WILL always be offended.

Irving said it best: you're offended only if you *want* to be. I say the so-called "offensive thing" is an excuse for people to silence others. It's orwellian. I say if it's offensive, chances are it's probably worth saying.
 
Because ten different people will give you ten different, often contradictory, ways to call them? And that's not even counting the delusional people who "identify" as whatever trendy things they conceived in that little sick brain of theirs? Some identify as vegetables, or attack helicopters; imagine that.

Because if you start worrying about offending people before you say anything, you'll end up saying nothing at all because someone, somewhere WILL always be offended.

Irving said it best: you're offended only if you *want* to be. I say the so-called "offensive thing" is an excuse for people to silence others. It's orwellian. I say if it's offensive, chances are it's probably worth saying.

You can remember ten different people's names, can't you?
No one's asking to be called an attack helicopter or a vegetable.
It's not oppression to ask someone to respect another person, and it's not "striking a blow for freedom" to disrespect someone.
 
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You can remember ten different people's names, can't you?
No one's asking to be called an attack helicopter or a vegetable.
It's not oppression to ask someone to respect another person, and it's not "striking a blow for freedom" to disrespect someone.

What Chicago and Myriam Byalik are asking here is that everyone conforms to their standard. Someone says "my girls" like a teacher would say "my students" and bam! They climb on their white horse and start saying that they know better than them what other grown women would rather be called. I take exception to that.

Chicago wants to be called a woman? That's what she is, so no problem. However, I doubt many women would take offense when their friends encourage them on the sports field, shouting: "You go, girl! Go get'em girl!" etc... And I'd feel really uncomfortable if she went around telling them they can't do it because she takes offense. See, it's not as much what people want for themselves as much as a frightening attempt to police others. I don't go around telling people what they can or cannot say.

Also don't confuse disrespecting and offending. The good folk at Charlie Hebdo lived and died for the right to offend. Salman Rushdie is living under a death sentence because he exercised his right to offend. Raif Badawi gets tortured every Friday because of a similar offense. See my friend, the right to offend, it's got a name. It's called freedom of speech.

When you say something, anything really, someone, somewhere will be offended. And when the person or group offended is powerful, oppression ensues. Look what happens in Saudi Arabia, China or Iran. Since in the USA you guys have the 1st amendment, oppression translates into more subtle forms, such as the practice of political correctness. Orwell called that Newspeak. It's the same process though: a powerful minority defines a set of rules that the majority must follow under threat of sanctions. Such as losing one's job, sponsors, etc... Call it what you want, it's still oppression.
 
I understand the sentiment and I personally do try to refrain from using "girl" to describe older women, but at the same time, it depends on context. There are situations where I think calling a woman a "girl" is ok. The word is used in certain songs that you just KNOW were not intended to offend. For example, "My girl" by the Temptations and "The Most beautiful girl in the world" by Prince. Would a woman really be offended if someone they love is serenading them with these songs? Nope.

It depends on situation and context.
 
The irony here is that the same people who routinely decry political correctness on this forum seem to the most triggered by this post. It's cute how people are like "hey don't get so offended" when it's obvious this post has gotten their own panties all in a wad. Maybe they're just in need of those safe spaces they so frequently mock lol
 
What Chicago and Myriam Byalik are asking here is that everyone conforms to their standard. Someone says "my girls" like a teacher would say "my students" and bam! They climb on their white horse and start saying that they know better than them what other grown women would rather be called. I take exception to that.

Chicago wants to be called a woman? That's what she is, so no problem. However, I doubt many women would take offense when their friends encourage them on the sports field, shouting: "You go, girl! Go get'em girl!" etc... And I'd feel really uncomfortable if she went around telling them they can't do it because she takes offense. See, it's not as much what people want for themselves as much as a frightening attempt to police others. I don't go around telling people what they can or cannot say.

Also don't confuse disrespecting and offending. The good folk at Charlie Hebdo lived and died for the right to offend. Salman Rushdie is living under a death sentence because he exercised his right to offend. Raif Badawi gets tortured every Friday because of a similar offense. See my friend, the right to offend, it's got a name. It's called freedom of speech.

When you say something, anything really, someone, somewhere will be offended. And when the person or group offended is powerful, oppression ensues. Look what happens in Saudi Arabia, China or Iran. Since in the USA you guys have the 1st amendment, oppression translates into more subtle forms, such as the practice of political correctness. Orwell called that Newspeak. It's the same process though: a powerful minority defines a set of rules that the majority must follow under threat of sanctions. Such as losing one's job, sponsors, etc... Call it what you want, it's still oppression.

A woman not wanting to be called "a girl" isn't equal to Muslim extremism. There's no implied threat there. There are no repercussions for being rude.
This isn't telling you what you can and can't say. It's someone telling you what they don't want to be called.
You can go around saying whatever you like, but if you say it to another person, then, yes, they have a right to call you out on it.
You can choose to respect someone else, or not, as you have chosen. No harm has befallen you so far.
 
The irony here is that the same people who routinely decry political correctness on this forum seem to the most triggered by this post. It's cute how people are like "hey don't get so offended" when it's obvious this post has gotten their own panties all in a wad. Maybe they're just in need of those safe spaces they so frequently mock lol

I'm not sure there's a safer space for misogyny than this one.
 
People are free to disagree with me, that's fine. Again, I see mostly men trying to defend the right(?) to refer to grown women in a condescending manner because ... They want to? I dunno.

No one has to take my advice. That said, I appreciate the positive responses from those I know in real life and just on the forum. I'm also disappointed by those responses from people I consider friends.
 
I find the term "guys" when used when referring to men very troubling... I am offended that my feelings were challenged. Now where is that darn safe place of mine!?!

I find the term "guys" when used when referring to men very troubling...



"Guys" is not a term that implies age, but if you do feel that way, I would recommend correcting those around you gently and politely to use other terms.

We got it the first time. And I explained the meaning of the word to you...
 
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