The surest sign of fakery in a tickling video?

Iggy pop said:

and the dialogue is often coached. I agree that the videos with fake horrible plots are the same videos with the horrible fake reactions. (I've never understood why people like fake plot, but to each their own)

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Dialogue is always coached or completely scripted. I don't personally like shooting videos where everyone (including the tickler) is just running through a script. I feel it blurs the boundaries of what's real and what isn't, and leads to unrealistic views of what a 'real' reaction (and a real person tickling) looks like.

Iggy pop said:

I agree that the videos with fake horrible plots are the same videos with the horrible fake reactions. (I've never understood why people like fake plot, but to each their own)

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I'm glad you're able to make that distinction at least. Many people are not.

Iggy pop said:

I understand that you may not pay a model for being more ticklish for that shoot; however, if a model is only moderately ticklish, then she most likely is not going to sell as well, and in turn you are not going to get booked again

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Not neccessarily true. If a model isn't ticklish at all then I won't be releasing their clips, but the craziest reactions aren't always the ones that sell. Often people complain about 'screamers' and some times those clips don't sell as well, but screaming is something that does often occur with very ticklish models - you can't switch it off unfortunately. Like-wise, I have models with more muted reactions that sell incredibly well because people either like the softer, understated laughter or they just think the girl is hot.

Iggy pop said:

Still, if you are going to claim that none of your models have ever exaggerated just a little bit, then I'm going to be a little bit skeptical about that claim.

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You can be skeptical. The fact is that I routinely shoot and then don't release clips of models that don't work out, as anyone who follows my updates will know. That includes models that wouldn't/couldn't stop exaggerating as well as models that just weren't ticklish. I never release a clip that I don't believe in, even when people offer to pay (they do offer) and if a model is putting it on, then I know about it. It is much easier to spot fake reactions when they are happening in front of you and when you know the person in question.


Take this clip for example:

https://www.pornhub.com/view_video.php?viewkey=ph562588da02f20

The clip is not mine, but I have worked with Ella and can confirm that she is not remotely ticklish, anywhere...not even a really little, tiny bit. We tried numerous scenes over several hours and she even admitted that she's not ticklish at all. She just finds anything touching her feet relaxing. It doesn't make her giggle, scrunch her toes up or do anything like that, yet the occasional little giggles and gasps in that video look genuine. I could have asked her to act like that (it was what she expecting to do in fact) but I didn't, because to me there's no point. We just shot some foot tease/foot worship with her and the other model and then left it at that - a loss for me. To this day, I get people begging me to release Ella's 'tickle' clips because she's popular in the UK and people like her feet. I've had offers of money to release them and I always tell people that there is really nothing to see. To me, it's all about integrity and I wouldn't risk my reputation to make a crap clip that I know will sell well. The thing is, people don't believe you when you say a model isn't ticklish any more than when you say they are!

Incidentally, I do have a section on my website for models that weren't ticklish at all:

http://www.uktickling.com/sub-category/not-ticklish

There have been many more than these of course, but it's basically a case of digging up and editing footage that I've already written off so I don't tend to do it often. All of those models would have been quite happy to fake it and their clips would no doubt have sold (Electra and Mikayla are very popular models with a massive fan following)

I think people also need to remember that everyone has different definitions of what they consider to be ticklish vs not ticklish. Say if we were to judge on a scale of 1-10 well one man's 10 could be another man's 5. Some people in my personal opinion have unrealistic expectations when it comes to judging who is and who isn't ticklish. At the end of the day I personally feel it will always be subjective and up to the ler or viewer to decide. I hope I am making sense.

Iggy pop said:

I understand that you may not pay a model for being more ticklish for that shoot; however, if a model is only moderately ticklish, then she most likely is not going to sell as well, and in turn you are not going to get booked again;

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At some point you need to trust the studios.
At the restaurant, it would make more economical sense to give you stale food and cover it up with sauce as most people won't see the difference.

BUT it turns out that most people like what they do, have ethics, and want to make quality.
If you don't trust anyone, it's hell.

Iggy pop said:

however, if a model is only moderately ticklish, then she most likely is not going to sell as well, and in turn you are not going to get booked again; thus she would be paid less. It is in the model's best interest to be as ticklish as possible.

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The flaw with this thinking is it presumes models show up for tickling shoots with a comprehensive knowledge and understanding of the intended market. This is absolutely not true. Even if you were to discard the fact that different studios have different markets. Even many "fetish" models are often not knowledgeable when it comes to the tickling fans. There are models I worked with for years who never understood anything other than they thought these shoots were fun. I have a model who started doing sessions and customs after doing multiple shoots with me. She came back asking advice after receiving some feedback from customers, specifically about her tickle material. She mentioned how they had referred to her previous work with me, and basically admitted she didn't know what she was doing. I personally found this somewhat shocking, considering how much work we had done. Point being, if you think there's a lot of fakery in clips, you all would really be gnashing teeth if all you had was what models THINK you want.

porcelaindoll2 said:

I think people also need to remember that everyone has different definitions of what they consider to be ticklish vs not ticklish. Say if we were to judge on a scale of 1-10 well one man's 10 could be another man's 5. Some people in my personal opinion have unrealistic expectations when it comes to judging who is and who isn't ticklish. At the end of the day I personally feel it will always be subjective and up to the ler or viewer to decide. I hope I am making sense.

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Makes perfect sense. Especially if you've ever tickled 3 or 4 different people who had 3 or 4 different types of ticklish responses.

lioclips said:

The flaw with this thinking is it presumes models show up for tickling shoots with a comprehensive knowledge and understanding of the intended market. This is absolutely not true. Even if you were to discard the fact that different studios have different markets. Even many "fetish" models are often not knowledgeable when it comes to the tickling fans. There are models I worked with for years who never understood anything other than they thought these shoots were fun. I have a model who started doing sessions and customs after doing multiple shoots with me. She came back asking advice after receiving some feedback from customers, specifically about her tickle material. She mentioned how they had referred to her previous work with me, and basically admitted she didn't know what she was doing. I personally found this somewhat shocking, considering how much work we had done. Point being, if you think there's a lot of fakery in clips, you all would really be gnashing teeth if all you had was what models THINK you want.

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I've privately communicated with a few models who have admitted to me that a lot of the tickling is fake. A few models(usually when they have already left the business) have admitted publicly that much of the tickling in videos is greatly exaggerated. This is not a conspiracy theory. In fact, I thought it was common knowledge. Yes, the videos with the terrible plots and terrible acting have the most faked exaggerated reactions. Still, I do not think anyone is really shooting documentaries here. I believe even the more "realistic" companies have models that "sweeten it" from time to time. This is an entertainment business and there is money to be made in entertaining.

Iggy pop said:

I've privately communicated with a few models who have admitted to me that a lot of the tickling is fake. A few models(usually when they have already left the business) have admitted publicly that much of the tickling in videos is greatly exaggerated. This is not a conspiracy theory. In fact, I thought it was common knowledge. Yes, the videos with the terrible plots and terrible acting have the most faked exaggerated reactions. Still, I do not think anyone is really shooting documentaries here. I believe even the more "realistic" companies have models that "sweeten it" from time to time. This is an entertainment business and there is money to be made in entertaining.

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Except there is no established template as to what constitutes (profitable) entertainment. There are tons of companies producing, but how many do you see releasing clips regularly? There is a style/format to the majority of the most successful (sales) studios, which is why you see the same faces reappear. Of course there is exaggeration in some clips. I've had models tell me they were asked to fake it for some major companies. Though not for the reasons you my suspect. Even so, these "tickling circuit" models you've communicated with, prolific as they may be, only represent a small sample of the models who've appeared in tickling clips. There's a reason no producer exclusively makes and releases bellybutton tickling videos every week. No money in that. And if they did, it would simply be for the love of what they were doing. So if you discard the 2 dozen or so tickling circuit models, think of how often you see the others in regularly released clips? Bear in mind you could get a dozen clips in a half day shoot. In the end I just echo turtleboy's sentiments - if it isn't genuine, why bother? No sweetening needed - because again, most non-pro fetish models who haven't been coached by 4 or 5 studios wouldn't even know what "sweetening" looks like in this type of clip.

Iggy pop said:

I've privately communicated with a few models who have admitted to me that a lot of the tickling is fake. A few models(usually when they have already left the business) have admitted publicly that much of the tickling in videos is greatly exaggerated. This is not a conspiracy theory. In fact, I thought it was common knowledge. Yes, the videos with the terrible plots and terrible acting have the most faked exaggerated reactions. Still, I do not think anyone is really shooting documentaries here. I believe even the more "realistic" companies have models that "sweeten it" from time to time. This is an entertainment business and there is money to be made in entertaining.

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Except there is no established template as to what constitutes (profitable) entertainment. There are tons of companies producing, but how many do you see releasing clips regularly? There is a style/format to the majority of the most successful (sales) studios, which is why you see the same faces reappear. Of course there is exaggeration in some clips. I've had models tell me they were asked to fake it for some major companies. Though not for the reasons you my suspect. Even so, these "tickling circuit" models you've communicated with, prolific as they may be, only represent a small sample of the models who've appeared in tickling clips. There's a reason no producer exclusively makes and releases bellybutton tickling videos every week. No money in that. And if they did, it would simply be for the love of what they were doing. So if you discard the 2 dozen or so tickling circuit models, think of how often you see the others in regularly released clips? Bear in mind you could get a dozen clips in a half day shoot. In the end I just echo turtleboy's sentiments - if it isn't genuine, why bother? No sweetening needed - because again, most non-pro fetish models who haven't been coached by 4 or 5 studios wouldn't even know what "sweetening" looks like in this type of clip.

The reason I prefer homemade tickling videos over studio ones....way more authentic

Iggy pop said:

I've privately communicated with a few models who have admitted to me that a lot of the tickling is fake. A few models(usually when they have already left the business) have admitted publicly that much of the tickling in videos is greatly exaggerated. This is not a conspiracy theory. In fact, I thought it was common knowledge. Yes, the videos with the terrible plots and terrible acting have the most faked exaggerated reactions. Still, I do not think anyone is really shooting documentaries here. I believe even the more "realistic" companies have models that "sweeten it" from time to time. This is an entertainment business and there is money to be made in entertaining.

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The keyword there being that you believe this to be the case, which doesn't make it so. Personally, I don't 'sweeten' any reactions in my videos as I don't wish to and don't need to...I don't believe it would actually improve my sales since my customers have come to expect real reactions. I may (and do) choose not to release videos that aren't up to scratch in terms of model reactions or appearance - for me, there is more money to be made from that maintaining a level of quality and integrity and keeping my regular customers satisfied, than there is from peddling crap in the way that you outline it. I take the same approach to customs. If a model isn't going to respond in the way the customer is describing, I will tell them, suggest some changes or alternative models. Some times I lose an order that way but it's better (for me) than having to botch it and produce something that just doesn't work.

Yes, some models do fake it - particularly some of the well-known US fetish models that circulate through countless studios. I know that when Angelina visited the US, she was told to fake it by a number of models, some of whom admitted that they weren't ticklish at all. At the end of the day, certain customers demand to see certain models reacting in a certain way and some models and producers will cater to that demand. I've never really had any interest in shooting those models even when they occasionally visit the UK, and have always found fresh faces for my videos - i.e. those that haven't encountered such demands.

As I've said before, lots of other producers real videos if you actually look at them, but no one is going to convince you if you choose not to believe it Incidentally, if you feel that 'documentaries' represent some measure of objective reality, then you should probably study documentary making a little - you may be in for a shock

I think truly ticklish models will squirm and try to get away or cover the areas being tickled. A lot of models I see don't do this.

That's really not always the case.

I think most of us would admit that there are videos which contain obvious fakery and exaggeration, about which the producers are quite shameless.

There are other videos which seem particularly authentic for one reason or another, like convincing off-mic type overheard conversation, for example.

And then there's a long continuum in-between, where we have different levels of skepticism, driven by a whole host of subliminal queues.

brotherted said:

And then there's a long continuum in-between, where we have different levels of skepticism, driven by a whole host of subliminal queues.

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I would say it's skepticism, driven by a whole host of assumptions rather than subliminal cues.

Examples include: the assumption that all or most producers want their models to give exaggerated reactions, the assumption that models will earn more money/get more work if they fake their reactions (I've covered both of these already), the assumption that all 'genuinely' ticklish people will move or respond to tickling in a certain way

omnifeller said:

I think truly ticklish models will squirm and try to get away or cover the areas being tickled. A lot of models I see don't do this.

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(this sort of thing)

...also, the assumption that a model being paid for it is going to be less ticklish than a person who isn't, that a model with fake breasts, cosmetic surgery (or simply wearing heavy makeup) must have fake reactions(?), that a well lit studio and professionally shot videos somehow make for a less 'authentic' reaction than a dimly lit bedroom, that bondage has to be extremely tight/uncomfortable for the tickling to work, that a genuinely ticklish person will: always try to escape, never cough, fart, look directly at the camera or stop laughing at any point while they are being tickled, their laughter will be varied, have a certain quality (but not sound too repetitive), they will never scream rather than laugh, their toes will clench in a certain way, they will always beg and plead for mercy, and be apparently so terrified of the experience that they wouldn't want to be there in the first place.

...to highlight just a few. The thing is, the experience of tickling people is very different to the way it is often portrayed in both tickling and mainstream media, particularly comics, cartoons and fan-fiction, which is where many people seem to get their ideas from...it's a case of reality being quite different to the fantasy. However, when you start with a series of largely inaccurate assumptions then you may find your skepticism is directing you in the wrong place entirely.

omnifeller said:

I think truly ticklish models will squirm and try to get away or cover the areas being tickled. A lot of models I see don't do this.

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In most videos the model is restrained, of course. You don't think this might be a factor? *furrows brow*

turtleboy said:

I would say it's skepticism, driven by a whole host of assumptions rather than subliminal cues.

Examples include: the assumption that all or most producers want their models to give exaggerated reactions, the assumption that models will earn more money/get more work if they fake their reactions (I've covered both of these already), the assumption that all 'genuinely' ticklish people will move or respond to tickling in a certain way



(this sort of thing)

...also, the assumption that a model being paid for it is going to be less ticklish than a person who isn't, that a model with fake breasts, cosmetic surgery (or simply wearing heavy makeup) must have fake reactions(?), that a well lit studio and professionally shot videos somehow make for a less 'authentic' reaction than a dimly lit bedroom, that bondage has to be extremely tight/uncomfortable for the tickling to work, that a genuinely ticklish person will: always try to escape, never cough, fart, look directly at the camera or stop laughing at any point while they are being tickled, their laughter will be varied, have a certain quality (but not sound too repetitive), they will never scream rather than laugh, their toes will clench in a certain way, they will always beg and plead for mercy, and be apparently so terrified of the experience that they wouldn't want to be there in the first place.

...to highlight just a few. The thing is, the experience of tickling people is very different to the way it is often portrayed in both tickling and mainstream media, particularly comics, cartoons and fan-fiction, which is where many people seem to get their ideas from...it's a case of reality being quite different to the fantasy. However, when you start with a series of largely inaccurate assumptions then you may find your skepticism is directing you in the wrong place entirely.

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My hero - and hey, not just because you know Ruby Summers. Well not ONLY because of that!

I think the number one thing to support the "largely inaccurate assumptions" statement is the fact a feather is the unquestioned symbol for tickling. And usually the type of feather which is not likely to illicit the hysterics it's image conjures in most minds. Of course there are those who are feather ticklish. I actually kinda think it's cool, partially because of how rare it is, so I've always included it in shoots. I've even had models eyes bug out 3x and utter "OH NO! A feather!!!!" reflexively, only to proceed with the most pedestrian response. If there was a response at all. Most feedback went something along the lines of: "I hardly feel it" or "It just feels nice." Still it is the universally perceived implement of maximum tickle torture.

Vanillaphant said:

In most videos the model is restrained, of course. You don't think this might be a factor? *furrows brow*

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You can usually tell if they struggle against the restraints, or if they just lie there limply.

turtleboy said:

I would say it's skepticism, driven by a whole host of assumptions rather than subliminal cues.

Examples include: the assumption that all or most producers want their models to give exaggerated reactions, the assumption that models will earn more money/get more work if they fake their reactions (I've covered both of these already), the assumption that all 'genuinely' ticklish people will move or respond to tickling in a certain way



(this sort of thing)

...also, the assumption that a model being paid for it is going to be less ticklish than a person who isn't, that a model with fake breasts, cosmetic surgery (or simply wearing heavy makeup) must have fake reactions(?), that a well lit studio and professionally shot videos somehow make for a less 'authentic' reaction than a dimly lit bedroom, that bondage has to be extremely tight/uncomfortable for the tickling to work, that a genuinely ticklish person will: always try to escape, never cough, fart, look directly at the camera or stop laughing at any point while they are being tickled, their laughter will be varied, have a certain quality (but not sound too repetitive), they will never scream rather than laugh, their toes will clench in a certain way, they will always beg and plead for mercy, and be apparently so terrified of the experience that they wouldn't want to be there in the first place.

...to highlight just a few. The thing is, the experience of tickling people is very different to the way it is often portrayed in both tickling and mainstream media, particularly comics, cartoons and fan-fiction, which is where many people seem to get their ideas from...it's a case of reality being quite different to the fantasy. However, when you start with a series of largely inaccurate assumptions then you may find your skepticism is directing you in the wrong place entirely.

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I think it stands to reason that in general, more ticklish people will struggle more. Obviously every rule has exceptions, but in my opinion, the most ticklish people are so ticklish that it "hurts". Therefore, it is highly unlikely they will enjoy it. When something is unpleasant, you will generally struggle to get away from it. Naturally, then, models on average will be less ticklish, because people who respond to ads will generally be able to tolerate tickling. If you're able to tolerate it, you'll be much more likely to take the money for it. My favorite models are ones that weren't recruited through an ad, but were found either through a random approach on the street, or are friends of the producer that the producer convinced to try it. These models will generally have more "genuine" reactions. Of course, you don't have to agree with me, because ticklishness is nearly impossible to quantify objectively.

turtleboy said:

The keyword there being that you believe this to be the case, which doesn't make it so. Personally, I don't 'sweeten' any reactions in my videos as I don't wish to and don't need to...I don't believe it would actually improve my sales since my customers have come to expect real reactions. I may (and do) choose not to release videos that aren't up to scratch in terms of model reactions or appearance - for me, there is more money to be made from that maintaining a level of quality and integrity and keeping my regular customers satisfied, than there is from peddling crap in the way that you outline it. I take the same approach to customs.

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Yes it is only a belief, but is not a mere hunch. It is belief that is supported by circumstantial and in some cases direct evidence. And just because you say it is does not not happen, doesn't make it so either. Even if we give you the full benefit of the doubt that you never coach models or tell them how to react, it does not mean a model is not using her own initiative to appear more ticklish, knowing that it could lead to potentially more money in the future. In fact a producer stated in this thread he caught a model exaggerating her ticklishness, so obviously it does happen. Now, before someone tells me that they are able to tell 100% of the time if a model is faking it when they tickle them in person, I will call bullshit on that. Yes, you will be able to spot the bad fakers, but you are not catching them all.

Iggy pop said:

It is belief that is supported by circumstantial and in some cases direct evidence.

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The comments from a couple of models that you've spoken to is only evidence of their own behaviour, not anyone else's.

Iggy pop said:

Now, before someone tells me that they are able to tell 100% of the time if a model is faking it when they tickle them in person, I will call bullshit on that. Yes, you will be able to spot the bad fakers, but you are not catching them all.

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I will call bullshit on you being better at spotting it than the person who is right there in the room with the model, actually tickling them, spending time with them between scenes, talking with them before, during and after the shoot, and having an appreciation of the full context of the situation.

I believe that person will always have a better idea of what is 'real' than a person sitting at home, watching an edited clip and then making assumptions based on their own beliefs of how these things play out (which are almost certainly very different to the reality), and an almost religious conviction in their unique ability to 'always spot a faker'

Iggy pop said:

Even if we give you the full benefit of the doubt that you never coach models or tell them how to react, it does not mean a model is not using her own initiative to appear more ticklish, knowing that it could lead to potentially more money in the future. In fact a producer stated in this thread he caught a model exaggerating her ticklishness, so obviously it does happen.

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The key point being that he caught a model exaggerating. As I've mentioned, I've very occasionally caught models doing the same and have chosen not to release clips as a result. If you shoot thousands of clips you will encounter all sorts of crap but in my own experience, the vast majority of models don't try to fake it and those that do are easy for a producer to spot. I'll give you some details of the way things work in my own case, to provide some more context (you can feel free not to believe me of course)

My shoots are generally around four hours in duration, and I will typically shoot less than one hour of actual tickling in the whole of that time. Outside of that, I am still with the model throughout pretty much the whole shoot and most of that time is spent with relaxed chit-chat, drinking coffee, joking around etc. Throughout the shoot I have plenty of time to discuss what I need (i.e. real reactions), to put the model at ease and to gauge their personality. One commonly held idea seems to be that the model answers an ad, arrives at the studio a little nervous, gets tied up and tickled, tries really hard to impress the producer then gets paid and runs out of the door having made a lucky escape. It really doesn't work like that in my experience.

On the shoot, I discuss and explain things at length with every new model so that they have a very good understanding of how it all works before we start filming. The simple instructions that I give to every new model are as follows:

1) I ask them not to look into the camera once we start filming (with the exception of an introductory shot that I normally do). This is because it's distracting for the viewer (i.e. breaks the fourth wall) and because it makes some viewers assume that the clip is fake (sound familiar?) Models very often worry about looking 'ugly' when laughing and if a camera monitor is in eye-shot it's really hard not to glance at it, so I have to push this home.

2) I tell them to let me know if anything is painful, uncomfortable (i.e. hands/arms/legs going numb, shoulder pains etc), or if they really need a break for any reason.

3) I tell them not to worry about their reactions, be themselves and react however they feel, provided it is real. I always tell them not to force anything and not to worry if they don't laugh very much. If they scream, swear or whatever it is all fine too. I have reinforced windows and the neighbours aren't really an issue for me.

Many first time models really do worry about how they will react. Some worry that they will be too loud or won't be able to cope, whilst others worry that they suddenly won't be ticklish at all or they won't react enough. All of these things do happen sometimes (not every shoot works out) but if the model is overly tense from the start, then it is more likely that they won't feel as ticklish or react as much. Anxiety/tension has a huge effect on reactions to tickling and it's the reason why so many shoots get better after the first scene (i.e. the model relaxes)

The thing is most new models worried about not being ticklish enough will actually ask whether they should fake it. I always tell them no, as real reactions are way more important to me. If they're not ticklish enough, we just shoot some foot stuff instead (I even re-book models that aren't ticklish to shoot non-tickling content) At the end of the day, it's just a really simple, open conversation between model and producer...it wouldn't make sense for models to keep trying to exaggerate for no reason as it would just be weird. In the cases where faking/exaggerating does happen, you can be pretty sure the producers are very aware of it and don't care, since it's part of the plot.

omnifeller said:

I think it stands to reason that in general, more ticklish people will struggle more.

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That's just your own perception. Struggling is only one type of reaction...some people struggle more, some people struggle less and make more noise. Tickling is entirely subjective - you could just as easily say that more ticklish people will sweat more, or become more red in the face.

omnifeller said:

Obviously every rule has exceptions, but in my opinion, the most ticklish people are so ticklish that it "hurts". Therefore, it is highly unlikely they will enjoy it. When something is unpleasant, you will generally struggle to get away from it.

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There are no 'rules' since you're describing an entirely subjective experience. You may have your own set of rules about how it's all supposed to work, based on your own personal experiences and/or things you have watched but they won't apply to all (or even most) people. For example, by your definition the most ticklish people must hate being tickled and do anything to avoid it since they will find it almost painful. That idea doesn't make any sense on a forum of tickle fetishists, many of whom love being tickled - would you conclude that those people are therefore not very ticklish, since it doesn't fit your rules? Some people laugh, some people cry, some people pee their pants, some don't - there's a whole spectrum of intense reactions it's not a linear thing.

omnifeller said:

Naturally, then, models on average will be less ticklish, because people who respond to ads will generally be able to tolerate tickling. If you're able to tolerate it, you'll be much more likely to take the money for it.

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Funnily enough, I find the opposite is usually true. The most ticklish models are the ones that tend to enjoy shooting the most since it's more of a thrill ride. Not being very ticklish actually makes for a very boring and quite awkward shoot, coupled with the sense of not having done a good job. Models that apply for castings are perhaps less likely to find tickling 'deeply unpleasant' but that doesn't make them any less ticklish (and some do find it deeply unpleasant)

omnifeller said:

Of course, you don't have to agree with me, because ticklishness is nearly impossible to quantify objectively.

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Well at least we can agree on something

@turtleboy

Agree to disagree then.

An aside- I love your content. Thanks for contributing to the tickling community!