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what a prominent producer told me about the state of the industry

While it’s true C4S doesn’t let you discount the prices for customers, A dollar a minute is the standard across the industry. Seeing as they take 40% on top of that may be a lot but you have to think they handle your tax documents and make sure that if you ever get in a legal bind that you are backed by their legal team. As well as maintaining 100% server uptimes.

The main thing for me falling out is caused by multiple thing in life that hit me. Having a kid, starting a mainstream photo/video business. (Which pays way more I might add) and I lost my main ler for my tickle videos a couple years ago and being a one man show really stifled my content creation.

For a lot of things in life, consistency is key and if it falters that becomes your deficit. Especially in something like this which is a labor of love for a lot of producers.


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Everyone keeps throwing out this 1 dollar for 1 minute standard. But obviously for tickling clips it’s not the industry’s standard if it’s failing. This is what I am talking about by simple economics. If your base isn’t willing to buy at a rate that you have set and it’s causing you a deficit the absolutely first thing you need to do is to try and reduce your price to see if sales increases. No one has even tried that, you are seeing such negative fed back to the idea because your all set on this industry standard when you have apples vs oranges.

lmao dude literally just said people have tried it, only to have it not pan out to more sales.

A dollar/min has been the industry standard going back to the days of video tapes that delivered an hour of content for $60. It's pretty standard across the sex industry in all fetishes and vanilla porn also.

Several producers played with lower pricing in the early 00's. And they found out that it didn't increase sales all that much. Not enough to make up for the loss incurred by halving the price. So $1/min returned to the standard. What they DID learn was that cutting a clips length, to 7-9 minutes DID increase sales at a $1/min. And for a while clip size shrank.


Also Clips4Sale uses a length to cost ratio that is automatic. Producers cannot set their clips lower in some cases.

The tube sites have been a huge factor in declining sales, as they saturate the market with material that is at the optimum price. Free. Unless a buyer is motivated for a very specific model or situation, most can find something good enough for their moist spasm needs.

This is not a problem unique to the tickling side of the industry. It crosses the entire porn world.

The all face: "Why pay when its easily and safe to see it free?"

Myriads
 
One of my favorite things about the tickle porn industry is that most producers release their content at very affordable prices. I've probably spent about $160 within the past 2 months on tickle porn. I don't know the exact number, but I think it accumulated up to about 2 hours worth of new content for my library. As soon as I get paid again next week, there's a couple of more videos that I want to buy from a specific producer.

So I just find it kind of silly that people are even making arguments that producers should lower the price on their content. If they lower it anymore, they might as well just give it away for free.
 
So I just find it kind of silly that people are even making arguments that producers should lower the price on their content. If they lower it anymore, they might as well just give it away for free.

Yep, model cost money (even if I have them cheap), especially in Western Europe and America.

Count the stocks, bondage stuff (that break because they are often used), sometimes you even have to rent a place to shoot in.
On top of that, the marketplace's share is quite expensive. (and taxes and petrol, all the good stuff)

For one model, you need to sell 30 clips to break even, and that's if you are cost savy (I heard about some producers paying models 500 $)

Vote for clips you like with your wallet
 
*somersaults into convo*

So, Kingmaker. I know you are building your own site to give producers a larger margin that clips4sale which charges 40% of your earnings. Now that may be high but what does C4S bring to the table?
- Stable site to upload content quick and effective
- Easy customization
- Email and phone customer support
- marketing
- a ranking system
- and the most important which is they have one of if not the largest fetish consumer base in the world.
They bring a hell of a lot to the table and can get any producer started just off that alone.
Take that 40% away and do everything yourself and it will be way more expensive with you paying out of pocket to start.

As per not making money its fairly true. Instead of talking based on speculation I will explain what I went through. In the beginning of The Tickle Room I was still in the army and was going through a rough divorce. The Tickle Room already had groundwork of clips with me and my ex where it would just be me and her. This never would have been successful because we needed different faces. So I decided "fuck it I may as well give it a shot, I know a good amount of fetish stars anyway". It would be some of the most fun stressful months of my life. People want money to shoot. When you step into shoots you need:
- Proper equipment
- some type of lighting
- bondage
- tickle tools
^ all that alone at the absolute minimum would cost you $500. Now you need talent. If you know people that shoot for free awesome! Most don't. So. For me I paid $600 for everything I started with. Then I needed talent. Perla, Madi, and Jenn were my first shoots. I got lucky because Perla was free since I did her pageant photos and Jenn was free because we were dating. Madi just wanted food. After that it was $50-$100 per audition. I also ALWAYS needed to have money on me because as word spread I was getting messaged more and more about shooting from various models and word of mouth. The beginning of The Tickle Room was the most active I ever was. But just one issue. The money did NOT come back in customs or sales. I would BARELY break even. Reason why? Something everyone leaves out of these discussions, Taxes. You HAVE TO PAY taxes. If you do not then at the end of the year you will FEEL it when they audit you. So it became rough. So I kept going for one reason. My fans. Doc, CJ, Savate, Comfort Eagle, darkknight, and more kept me going. It would not pay off highly until I REALLY became a hardened business owner and was more known amongst the community.

A new issue would then arise that I now see. All of you who think Piracy does not hurt? Every single Rosie clip I posted would have mass sales for a few hours and then stop. Why? It popped up somewhere on pornhub. My sales would dip immediately. I have seen it happen to SO many producers. Better your content the more its pirated. For all those producers who wanna make money and are in the boat I was in? Just keep going and listen to your fans. Take risks where you can and when you can. Don't force things. Combine what you like with what the industry likes and boom. Just remember the GOLDEN RULE most producers break, its a business. Treat it that way.
- Model Releases
- Receipts for EVERYTHING going into the business even your baby oil
- Engage with fans constantly.
- Money talks. Always
- Don't break models and make them never come back. Be respectful and watch boundaries.
- Don't let people push you around for customs and don't let pro models destroy you on prices and push you. You own the business you go with what you can.

Now my favorite. $1 a minute. This is absolutely not the reason we lose sales. I have been selling clips for a MASSIVE cheap margin since the beginning. It got me popular to start and then made me realize I lost SO much money. Want to know what my fans do? They message me and tell me "hey matt, I want X amount of clips but they are super pricey if I buy X amount can you edit them together with just the foot tickling? If not cool but I just don't want the rest". Sometimes I really do not mind if its easy to do. Just ask. We producers are human and pretty reasonable from what I have seen. Most of us actually have the fetish just like you all. I mean half of us are always in the tickling discussions anyway lol.

O! real quick. Saying that people have the money to burn to make major content? I started with a simple sony camera which cost me the most money but my lighting? It was a spider lamp from goodwill modified with spot lights meant for outside and gardening with a sheet to make it softer. Was it perfect? fuck no. Did it work? Bet your ass it did. If you REALLY want it you will find a way <3
 
Yeah bullshit, Instagram feet girls sell 3 minute videos for as much as $20 and cultivate fanbases that happily pay those rates. We all browse PornHub and I'd bet money a significant chunk of this board are religious visitors to that blog. Ticklefuckers are just tightwads.

The overarching problem is presentation. How many threads do you see where you read "HELP! I'M/MY SIGNIFICANT OTHER IS INTO TICKLING AND I'M READY TO LOSE MY SHIT!" in the subject? How many news stories do you see about the "violating serial foot fetishist on the prowl from window to window for feet to tickle"? For fucks sake, how many creeps like us post on the forum debating this stuff? Jk lol.

I'm gonna just put it this way. You can't market the obscure without approaching it in an obscure way. A $30 (that's reasonably low) clip for 30 minutes is the price of a busted nut. But that doesn't create the feeling of validation. Then add a bunch of bitter fucks sharing it on sites.

This is all over a mainstream preference expressed to an extreme because people feel awkward over shit they can (presumably) get for free.

Einstein said insanity is the same thing over and over again. ...sounds valid on this platform.
 
- Don't break models and make them never come back. Be respectful and watch boundaries.
Is that the reason why you refuse to let me order a custom upper body video with that Entai girl? (I could never spell her name right lol).


Lol guys I've been pestering The Tickle Room about a custom upper body video with that girl for a long time and he just stopped responding. God the amount of money I would pay to see her in that kind of video. Maybe one day.
 
Is that the reason why you refuse to let me order a custom upper body video with that Entai girl? (I could never spell her name right lol).


Lol guys I've been pestering The Tickle Room about a custom upper body video with that girl for a long time and he just stopped responding. God the amount of money I would pay to see her in that kind of video. Maybe one day.
Maybe the model does not want to do it?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
So, Kingmaker. I know you are building your own site to give producers a larger margin that clips4sale which charges 40% of your earnings. Now that may be high but what does C4S bring to the table?
- Stable site to upload content quick and effective
- Easy customization
- Email and phone customer support
- marketing
- a ranking system
- and the most important which is they have one of if not the largest fetish consumer base in the world.
I know it's kind of off topic so I'll make a small anwser and try to drive this answer on topic.

I really did say that being on *any* platform is worth it. (I do think that being on C4S is better than being on nothing at all, or even patreon)
I try to offer all these things to both customers and vendors (excepted phone support that I find irrelevant on my scale)

The ranking system is kind of there (I show best seller clips in a grid), and each month I send a newsletter with the ranking to vendors. (example here )

Maybe I should make it public if people are into this stuff ? I'm curious to know, if yes I can add it within a day.

Anyway, in any industry, 40 % of your profits being taken away is a lot, it's not in the interest of platforms to starve the producers.
I try to care about them, push their content, give advices and know them better. I already feel bad taking 30 %, but volume isn't quite there yet, I'll lower my share ASAP (my goal is to reach 20 % long term, all fee included)
 
basically there is no money. apart from a major producer or 2 (who probably have cash to burn anyway), there is no money to produce high quality clips anymore. we discussed reasons for that but i'm not gonna get into. and that producer told me he's looking to get out as well. he's trying to entice people to order customs so he can make 1K and get out. this is how bad of a shape the industry is in. and this from a producer who has been pretty successful in the past. he even said "you'll only see quality clips from people who have money to burn"

Money to invest, not burn.
 
Legit Tickling is by no means a top C4S Studio.

But I consistently make (in profit) hundreds of dollars a month between Patreon, C4S and customs.

Here are my three tips:
1. Find girls for as cheap as possible
2. Get cheap hotel rooms if you can’t film at your place or theirs
3. Customs, Customs, Customs

My store has always been profitable because I keep costs extremely low.
 
*somersaults into convo*
- Engage with fans constantly.

Had a talk with myself about wanting to get in. I have the tech know how and with a lot more effort, could probably get folks to do videos. BUT... I can't say I gicie shit about the people in the tickling community. As Tickle eagle said, they fucking SUCK. I have no desire to even be casual friends with half these dudes.. so yeah. My heart won't be totally in it.
 
I have yet to order a custom where I didnt pay first.
Who is the mythical producer who doesnt require this?
I have one custom from Tickle Room: Easy to work with. Love the custom but I ended up on a different path.
Tickle Intensive: Great videos but avoid like the plague. Business ethics.
Nyxon: Very businesslike. Gets straight to business but does a good job.
Kobe Lee: Very pleasant. Will work with you.
Randy Moore ( retired ) Loved her and Larkin Love. Easy to work with.
Nyssa Nevers: Awesome with an easy to understand price tree. Also got me hooked up with Christina Carter for a lot less than via CC studio. Very personable and patient. When traveling she might take a couple days to get back to you. By far has the best cameraman I have seen. Of all the people mentioned
I would recommend her first especially if you want Christina in your video. Kendra James and Whitney Morgan live close to her so videos with her and them are easy.
She makes most of her money on customs so her store can be months behind.

C4S works which is why the producers use it. Saves lots of headaches. I know a few vids are less than $1 a minute but they are older clips and in many cases customs so the producer has already made money from them.

I have yet to have a producer not charge me in advance. Most will stop talking about the video until you have paid them.
 
The real problem isn’t piracy, or sharing or anything like that even though producers use this argument every time, the real issue is pricing. You can’t charge 30 dollars for 30 minutes.

In the VHS days a 30 minute video - minus plot/exposition - cost $50, $60 or $90 (if you bought from TJ Productions.) The only way to get good video content was rentals & trading pirated VHS tapes, and that led to gatherings, NEST, the TMF, etc. since contact had to be personal. The mid 90s to early 2000s was a comfortable time for everyone.

Now there is too much piracy but even then, pricing is much better now than in the early days. If anything, the current impersonality has hurt us all (we buy from a central company & have thousands of titles to chose from. If it doesn’t feel like we’re stealing from anyone, then “it isn’t” stealing ;-) ), but whatever the reasons, pricing isn’t causing the problem.

If you cannot afford your porn then learn to draw, or grab a Winter Silks catalog and use your imagination.
 
I have yet to order a custom where I didnt pay first.
Who is the mythical producer who doesnt require this?
I have one custom from Tickle Room: Easy to work with. Love the custom but I ended up on a different path.

That one. Literally the first person you said has a story about someone who ordered a really expensive custom that ended up not paying. So there's one.

I had friends who tried starting up a clip business who were burned on customs at the very beginning of their attempts. Twitter is full of models/self-producers who routinely talk about people who will attempt to order customs and ask can they pay upon completion.

What's with your shitty attitude? Like I'm just making it up?
 
The reality is that people in the community are notoriously cheapskates and no amount of pricing will change the reality that they'd not even spend a penny for content. Streaming services, full downloadable libraries, in the end, companies have had issue upon issue upon issue. Yeah, the entire market for video content is so disgustingly saturated and has been forever. People talk about seeing the same models over and over again, but we have people quickly uploading content to pornhub and whatever and running off models with absolutely creepy stalking behavior. Not going to lie, lots of producers create assembly line content, and it kind of sucks as well. How much do I need FTKL flooding a c4s feed with an animated gif rather than a preview clip that will show that the model is fake laughing? Fun times had by all.

These threads have also come up time and time and time and time again for a decade.
 
I think that whatever makes you unhappy with the community or the industry, there is no written trend.

People on the TMF are generally good guys, the community is alive, there are the guys on deviant art, some amateurs on Patreon, people buying customs ...

At my own level, I try to buy more clips, do new things, find other types of models and build a fair platform.

Sure some things need improvements, and I want to fix them as do all of you. But considering that the industry is broken or at the verge of extinction seem exaggerated.
 
I look at it as there is money to be made. But you have to put in the work...

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Legit Tickling is by no means a top C4S Studio.

But I consistently make (in profit) hundreds of dollars a month between Patreon, C4S and customs.

Here are my three tips:
1. Find girls for as cheap as possible
2. Get cheap hotel rooms if you can’t film at your place or theirs
3. Customs, Customs, Customs

My store has always been profitable because I keep costs extremely low.

This is basically the same for me. Only no Patreon for me and custom work went dry about a year ago though and I stopped uploading to C4S about 2 years ago, but I still get a pay out every month. I've talked to and worked with some very well known models who brought an established and paying fan base, whose rates are more than half what some of the current IG models will charge. I don't know HOW any studio could turn a profit if they are paying those rates. What you pay though will also be determined by your market and model availability.

So from my experience, even not actively producing, there is money available. To get into it at this point though and to be full time would require the same thing as ANY start up in most any industry: CAPITAL! You're simply not going to make a profit or enough of it in the first year, so you would need funding for the continuing expenses.

Pricing - There have always been those who cannot afford product. I think $1/min is reasonable and also feel the majority of producers have gone out of their way to try and be flexible where possible with pricing structure. I've reduced, run sales, offered direct sale discounts, large clip discounts and have never seen any real impact to sales.

Marketing/Consistency - I never did this full time, but there was a period when I would release 2-4 clips a week (I thought that's what I was supposed to do lol), because that's what the full time studios did. Spent endless hours editing multiple size/resolution long previews to upload to tmf, tickle theatre, dailymotion, youtube, facebook, tumblr, twitter, fetishtrain, fetlife and my blog, including pics and screengrabs and long descriptions. Then I stopped updating dailymotion and youtube. Then facebook. Eventually I only posted in the video clip section here. Then eventually, stopped that. I never saw any discernible difference in sales until....

Piracy - I kept an eye on sales, but never really monitored things like chargebacks. I started noticing clips just wouldn't sale like they did previously, but I figured it was just one of those cyclical things. Started doing some research into the refunds/chargebacks and noticed they corresponded to the clips turning up pirated. The timing corresponded with the decline in sales. Now, as to the major studios that have been consistently producing for many years, you can't underestimate or overstate the value of being active and building a customer base prior to this "piracy era."

I understand piracy has ALWAYS been there, but in truth, if you're going to call this the tickle clips producing industry, you have to call THAT the tickle clip piracy industry, because the major culprit is monetizing his piracy. In effect, this niche market to begin with, is cannibalizing itself. So it isn't that piracy isn't an issue, it's that the larger-volume, established and prolific studios are able to absorb it's impact better than the smaller ones. James Darke told me he was just focused on continuing to release material regularly to stay ahead of the piracy. That's absolutely the way to go, but it's considerably easier and more feasible to do so when you have a huge catalog and established customer base that's a decade or more old.

Lastly, I'm sure any content producer could spend multiple paragraphs expressing displeasure with certain elements in this community but I'd like to give a shout out to all the tons of awesome members who have supported not just my store, but all content creators over the years. I know there are plenty out there, because I've sold many clips that have never been pirated/shared thanks to these great customers.
 
People just want stuff for free apparently..

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