Blind woman drugged, raped at interview for foot fetish website: cops

ticklishess said:

Well the article does say she was inebriated, so there may not have been physical evidence that she put up some sort of a fight.

Also, the naivety of some is just astounding. Who in their right mind would accept food or beverage from a stranger in the privacy of a hotel room??

Granted, we don't know all the details, but from what we're given it sounds like she could have exercised a bit more caution; perhaps going so far as to have someone accompany her??

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Boom. There it is.
I wondered when the "maybe he's innocent" voice would be joined by "maybe it's somehow her responsibility, too".

Slag off with that shit.

Wolf said:

Boom. There it is.
I wondered when the "maybe he's innocent" voice would be joined by "maybe it's somehow her responsibility, too".

Slag off with that shit.

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Shouldn't she have been more cautious?

ticklishess said:

Shouldn't she have been more cautious?

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It's not her responsibility to be "on guard" against a potential rapist when she's meeting someone for employment.
It's his responsibility to NOT FUCKING RAPE PEOPLE.

ticklishess said:

Well the article does say she was inebriated, so there may not have been physical evidence that she put up some sort of a fight.

Also, the naivety of some is just astounding. Who in their right mind would accept food or beverage from a stranger in the privacy of a hotel room??

Granted, we don't know all the details, but from what we're given it sounds like she could have exercised a bit more caution; perhaps going so far as to have someone accompany her??

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You're right that we don't know all the details.

What we do know is that a woman claims she was raped while going on a professional gig, and the police believe her.

You, and we, are not in any position to second guess her decision making. Maybe this guy had references. Maybe the fact that it was a hotel made her feel safer.

And as far as that goes, what makes you think he was a stranger? She may have met him previously at professional functions. Someone mentioned that he's been in the industry a long time, so she might have known from from other functions that she'd worked at.

The article doesn't say he was a stranger, I feel like that's something you're projecting onto it as part of your "How she could have avoided being raped" theory.

Furthermore, maybe she doesn't have anyone to accompany her. That's another assumption you're making, that she has the resources to do this differently, but made an unwise decision to simply not do it. You don't know that she had that option and chose to ignore it.

As a blind woman, maybe she's in a situation where she had to make a risky decision to support herself and doesn't have the full range of options that another, more privileged, person might have.

She might have been very afraid of this possibility and done everything within her power to mitigate the danger. Nothing in the article suggests otherwise.

The point is this - to come along later and say "Maybe this person wouldn't have gotten raped if she did things differently," is to approach this from the exactly 180-degree opposite direction of the correct way. It couldn't be more wrong.

(IF this is true, which you have to bend over backwards to assume otherwise, but whatever) The way she could have avoided being raped is if someone didn't rape her.

The proper focus of the blame is on the person who committed the crime. It's not up to innocent citizens to project themselves into every possible future and figure out which ones might have rape in them.

It's up to people who have the impulse to rape someone, to not act on that impulse.

I mean, you're even blaming her for taking a piece of candy from him - People have to be able to live their lives. You don't go to a job interview assuming that you might get raped.

I would bet every cent I possess that you, personally, do not go through life with the level of caution that you're suggesting that this woman should have exercised. I bet when you go on a job interview, or to some other meeting, you take candy from people who offer it to you, and you drink beverages that are served to you, and you assume that the people you're with are not going to drug and rape you.

As do I. As does everyone.

TMF Jeff said:

You, and we, are not in any position to second guess her decision making. Maybe this guy had references. Maybe the fact that it was a hotel made her feel safer.

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How is a hotel room, away from the public eye, a feasible setting to conduct an interview?

OmahaTickler said:

Rape is rape. Doesn't matter why she went there, for what type of adult entertainment. What bothers me in the coverage is the picture of feet and the spotlighting of the fetish, as though it's relevant to the hideous acts. Urges are urges. He could have used any pretense to get women there, whether it's a photo shoot for deodorant ads or a new soda on the market. The implication, as others said, is that our community is full of sickos. When such crime stories are run when vanilla sex is involved, they never show pictures of sex-type stuff, e.g., dildos or lingerie or condoms, so why is this so different? (likely because the Post is a tabloid, of course, which sensationalizes)

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Thank you for this.

ticklishess said:

How is a hotel room, away from the public eye, a feasible setting to conduct an interview?

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Do you think people in the fetish industry interview people in the hotel's Business Center?

ticklishess said:

How is a hotel room, away from the public eye, a feasible setting to conduct an interview?

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I am going to answer this question. And I would like you to address all the other points in my post.

Many job interviews take place in hotel rooms, especially in the entertainment industry. People travel between New York and LA, for example, and they stay in hotels and arrange meetings with a series of people that they might have business with in that location.

Especially in a case like this, where the interview is probably going to include her taking off her shoes so he can take fetishy pictures of her feet. It's not something you'd do, for example, in a restaurant.

So there's another false assumption that you've made - the meeting was in an unusual location and she made a mistake by going to it.

And do you notice that ALL of your unjustified assumptions are in an attempt to find something she did wrong? I notice you aren't assuming that he did anything nefarious.

In other words, you could have assumed that she did bring an escort but the escort was tricked into leaving.

Or you could have assumed that meeting in hotel rooms is normal, which is the case. If you'd given that much thought, about what kind of meeting this was, you'd probably have been able to figure out on your own that meetings like that are fairly common.

But every assumption you make is some kind of attempt to find something that this woman did wrong that led to her getting raped.

Please now address my points - where are all of these false assumptions coming from, and why are you trying so hard to find a way to make this her fault?

And also please address my point that you do not live with the kind of caution that you think this woman should have had.

I know that I have gone to job interviews where I went into a room with a human resources person, and they gave me a cup of coffee that I then drank. I didn't think "Wait, I'm alone in here and I didn't bring a security buddy, so I might get raped."

If you live your life that way, please say so because I'm going to be pretty amazed.

TMF Jeff said:

Well, according to the article you posted, she went to the hospital for a rape kit, and then the police arrested him.

What theory are you proposing exactly?

Who is hanging him? Why did you post this link without commentary or any point of view? So you could come along later and scold people for judging too hastily and assuming that a woman is telling the truth when she says she was raped?

I mean... what is this exactly?

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Do we not have a presumption of innocence? Aren't there two sides?

What if she agreed to the sex and felt guilty afterwards?

I am not taking his side, all I am saying is that I need to hear from both sides before making any judgment.

"Who is hanging him?" - Did you not read all the replies?

Look up DUKE LACROSSE SCANDAL.

NY ler said:

Do we not have a presumption of innocence? Aren't there two sides?

What if did it voluntarily and felt guilty afterwards?

I am not taking his side, all I am saying is that I need to hear from both sides before making any judgment.

"Who is hanging him?" - Did you not read all the replies?

Look up DUKE LACROSSE SCANDAL.

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I'm not going to "look up duke lacrosse scandal."

And yes, I've read every reply. None of them mention hanging anyone.

Courtooms have a presumption of innoncence. The legal system has a presumption of innocence.

I assume that when a woman claims to have been raped, goes to a hospital to be tested, and the police then arrest someone, then there was a rape, sure enough.

Is it possible that it's otherwise? Sure.

But is it the most likely case? No. Not by about a hundred thousand-to-one.

Let me turn the question around on you - doesn't she have a presumption of innocence?

You're accusing her of a crime, by saying that she has falsely accused a guy of rape. Where's her presumption of innocence?

NY ler said:

Do we not have a presumption of innocence? Aren't there two sides?

What if she agreed to the sex and felt guilty afterwards?

I am not taking his side, all I am saying is that I need to hear from both sides before making any judgment.

"Who is hanging him?" - Did you not read all the replies?

Look up DUKE LACROSSE SCANDAL.

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Okay, so that's two for the rapist so far...anyone else?

TMF Jeff said:

I'm not going to "look up duke lacrosse scandal."

And yes, I've read every reply. None of them mention hanging anyone.

Courtooms have a presumption of innoncence. The legal system has a presumption of innocence.

I assume that when a woman claims to have been raped, goes to a hospital to be tested, and the police then arrest someone, then there was a rape, sure enough.

Is it possible that it's otherwise? Sure.

But is it the most likely case? No. Not by about a hundred thousand-to-one.

Let me turn the question around on you - doesn't she have a presumption of innocence?

You're accusing her of a crime, by saying that she has falsely accused a guy of rape. Where's her presumption of innocence?

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You won't look up Duke Lacrosse scandal?? Interesting. This is almost identical to what happened here. Innocent college kids were accused or rape. Had their lives destroyed. Later learned that the accuser made the whole thing up.

None mention hanging - "Sick disgusting asshole. I hope he dies in prison. On a side note, I wonder if he's on the forum?" Yep, innocent or guilty, let's hope he dies in prison.

Odds - you say 100,000 to 1. I say 10 to 1. Potatoe - Potato.

Of course she has presumption of innocence, that's why I didn't say that she's lying. I said that I need to hear his side before forming an opinion.

NY ler said:

You won't look up Duke Lacrosse scandal?? Interesting. This is almost identical to what happened here. Innocent college kids were accused or rape. Had their lives destroyed. Later learned that the accuser made the whole thing up.

None mention hanging - "Sick disgusting asshole. I hope he dies in prison. On a side note, I wonder if he's on the forum?" Yep, innocent or guilty, let's hope he dies in prison.

Odds - you say 100,000 to 1. I say 10 to 1. Potatoe - Potato.

Of course she has presumption of innocence, that's why I didn't say that she's lying. I said that I need to hear his side before forming an opinion.

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I'm not your research department. I'm not going to look something up, then engage in a guessing game about which parts of it are the ones you think are connected to this.

You say it's almost identical to this - articulate how. Because what you've said about it so far has nothing to do with this. It's almost gaslighting for you to randomly throw those little factoids into this conversation.

The college kids were innocent. Are you saying this guy is innocent? Is that how it's "almost identical?"

They had their lives destroyed because they were falsely accused. Are you saying this guy has had his life destroyed because he has been falsely accused?

See my point? If there's a comparison, make it. I'm not here to make your argument for you.

And saying you hope that the guy who raped a woman dies in prison is not a lynching, nor a call for a lynching.

Nobody has said "This guy is definitely guilty." They're talking about the article, which claims a woman was raped, and your choice of a title for this post, which also makes that claim.

Now you come along and say "Whoa whoa whoa, what about his presumption of innocence."

If you were concerned about his presumption of innocence, then I guess you shouldn't have made a post that claims he raped someone.

It's extremely disingenuous of you to make this post, with this title, and then later come along agitating about false accusations.

I posted an article which made accusations. I said that I need to see evidence from both sides, before taking anyone's side.... yet I'm ridiculed for posting the article?!

Your forum, your rules. But wow.

NY ler said:

I posted an article which made accusations. I said that I need to see evidence from both sides, before taking anyone's side.... yet I'm ridiculed for posting the article?!

Your forum, your rules. But wow.

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I'm not ridiculing you for posting the article.

I'm saying - you made the decision to post it without any context. The article doesn't say maybe, it says she was raped and a man was arrested for it.

Your title doesn't say maybe. It says a woman was drugged and raped, and it links to an article that identifies the person the police think did it.

What I'm objecting to - and I apologize if it comes across as ridiculing, I type sarcastic - what I'm objecting to is the abrupt interjection of "Maybe he didn't do it. Maybe she's lying. And shame on all of you for forming a lynch mob!"

Because there's nothing here that indicates his innocence. You, as the original poster, didn't in any way indicate ambiguity. It's something you're choosing to insert now, after the fact.

The reason I object to that is that you've already established that there was a rape, and suddenly you've pivoted to "Maybe she's lying about the rape." That's an ugly direction for it to go because it's extremely unlikely that she is lying. Even if it's 10% as you said, that means it's 90% likely that she's telling the truth.

And that's for the courts to decide. Why are you the rapist's advocate?

It feels like a mean-spirited point to make, in the face of someone claiming to have suffered something horrible and people expressing their feelings of compassion for her, and anger towards the person who did it.

And I also find it, as I said, disingenuous coming from the same person who made the post to begin with.

NY ler said:

I posted an article which made accusations. I said that I need to see evidence from both sides, before taking anyone's side.... yet I'm ridiculed for posting the article?!

Your forum, your rules. But wow.

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And also, please answer my question - how is this identical to the Duke LaCrosse Scandal?

"Your title doesn't say maybe. It says a woman was drugged and raped, and it links to an article that identifies the person the police think did it." - it's not my title, it's the title of the (on-topic) article that I posted.

"Because there's nothing here that indicates his innocence" - he has the presumption of innocence and his side has not been heard yet.

"you've already established that there was a rape " - ??? I did no such thing! Show me.

"And that's for the courts to decide. Why are you the rapist's advocate?" - I'm an advocate for innocent until proven guilty. We're in the USA, are we not? You're at a night club. A fight breaks out. Someone gets killed. A witness says that you did it. That's all the evidence that we have thus far. Am I allowed to say: let's see some evidence (which includes your side of the story) or will you call me a "MURDERER'S ADVOCATE"? What if you didn't do it? What if it was self defense? What if the witness's friend did it and she's trying to help him? Too many unknowns, that's why I want to hear both sides.

Why would I answer about Duke if you're refusing to even read about it. Read it and I will answer.

And for the record, I was never accused of any crime nor do I know anyone who was, so it's not personal.

NY ler said:

"Your title doesn't say maybe. It says a woman was drugged and raped, and it links to an article that identifies the person the police think did it." - it's not my title, it's the title of the (on-topic) article that I posted.

"Because there's nothing here that indicates his innocence" - he has the presumption of innocence and his side has not been heard yet.

"you've already established that there was a rape " - ??? I did no such thing! Show me.

"And that's for the courts to decide. Why are you the rapist's advocate?" - I'm an advocate for innocent until proven guilty. We're in the USA, are we not? You're at a night club. A fight breaks out. Someone gets killed. A witness says that you did it. That's all the evidence that we have thus far. Am I allowed to say: let's see some evidence (which includes your side of the story) or will you call me a "MURDERER'S ADVOCATE"? What if you didn't do it? What if it was self defense? What if the witness's friend did it and she's trying to help him? Too many unknowns, that's why I want to hear both sides.

Why would I answer about Duke if you're refusing to even read about it. Read it and I will answer.

And for the record, I was never accused of any crime nor do I know anyone who was, so it's not personal.

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I read about it. Now explain what you meant please.

...

You established the rape by saying there was a rape in your thread title. I don't know where you got it and neither does anyone else. And in any case, you chose to enter it. It's your thread title. If you meant something else I think you should have said that.

If you didn't intend that, then fine. But that's what I meant when I said you established the existence of a rape in the mind of the reader by posting this the way you did.

Not even commenting on horrific acts in the article.
For me, I am more intrigued by how much of a hot button this is for many people here. It carries an implication of personal experience in some form.
That if accurate is more concerning of how tragically prevalent rape still is. My own limited experience not withstanding.

Boys were accused of rape. Practically everyone took the accuser's side. Their lives were nearly destroyed.

It was later learned that she lied. Yes, shockingly accusers do lie.

Does it mean that the accuser here lied? Of course not, but it does show why no one should be jumping the gun.

NY ler said:

Boys were accused of rape. Practically everyone took the accuser's side. Their lives were nearly destroyed.
It was later learned that she lied. Yes, shockingly accusers do lie.
Does it mean that the accuser here lied? Of course not, but it does show why no one should be jumping the gun.

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So, how would you be comfortable with people addressing this situation? Where a woman has made a very serious accusation of a horrible crime, a rape kit was taken, and a police report filed?

What would make you feel better?

I honestly have no clue what you're asking... I see lots of emotions and feelings... light on facts.

NY ler said:

I honestly have no clue what you're asking... I see lots of emotions and feelings... light on facts.

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What did you expect, by posting that story? People are responding to what they read.

What did I expect? I don't think I posted with any set of expectations. I posted to inform people of this, as it is very much related to tickling.

NY ler said:

What did I expect? I don't think I posted with any set of expectations. I posted to inform people of this, as it is very much related to tickling.

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So, you had no expectations, but you are unhappy with the reactions?

And no, it's not related. He's a rapist. Any connection is on you.