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The Question of Ethical Tickling

I don't quite know how to word my opinion on the matter so I guess I'll just say I'd presume most folks would be in agreement not to insist on trying to tickle someone if they've said they don't like bring tickled or even if they just don't want to in the moment.
 
In my experience, I now make it a point to only tickle someone when there's already a degree of romantic interest and physical contact is desired by both of us. As for the "playful poke in the side" thing as a flirtatious tool or a way of gauging interest, I've gone back and forth as to whether or not this is ethical. I guess it may be better to determine on an individual basis. I no longer do this because, for me, tickling has such a strong sexual effect that such action would certainly be inappropriate on my part. I'd be lying if I said I haven't done things like this in the past. Things that your average person would view as mundane and many individuals on here would consider tame. As I've grown older I've carried the guilt and shame that accompany those memories as well as building a level of self hatred I am unable to adequately describe.
 
GirlMeetsTickle said:
No, I don’t think I missed anything. I wasn’t talking about seeking unsuspecting people to tickle. I meant what I said..the person is seeking sexual gratification by tickling an unsuspecting person. And that can include a friend. If what appears to be a “playful poke” was actually the tickler intending to sexually gratify themselves...that can’t honestly be deemed a “playful poke” imo, and that’s what I meant by a “copped feel hiding in plain sight”. I don’t doubt you all are being sincere, though. I believe you’re experiencing no internal conflict with your principles.
Click to expand...

Technically your right. Throughout my life Ive done it. I have tickled many people "playfully" while getting a thrill from it. That includes my wife. Before we were married and before we were a couple we were just friends and I tickled her a bunch. They are great memories and I dont regret any of it. One of the advanteges of this fetish is that ability to hide in plain sight. Is it the most ethical thing to do? No its not. I can admit that. We all should admit that. It is what it is though. I dont think its possible to live a completly ethical life. Nor do I think its any fun to try to lol
 
FeatherFeet said:
I would counter that question with another question : how many kinks are out there you have no knowledge of?
Click to expand...

My sentiments exactly. My internal reaction to something is my own business. Rules about acceptable social behavior, by contrast, are based on actions not thoughts, and are grounded in what a reasonable person in your culture would consider okay.

Having read so many of these threads, it's become clear how much many of us differ on exactly when it becomes okay to give another person a one-second poke in the side. Somewhere between absolutely okay (a spouse whose mood is signaling it's welcome) and absolutely not (an attractive person you don't know at a funeral) are countless gray area scenarios from first dates, to relatives, to a new friend flirting with you in a hot tub who's just explained in a happy way how ticklish she is. We all feel these situations out on a case-by-case basis, and then hopefully respect other people's responses in a non-autistic, empathetic way.

In my life, even people who most abhor being tickled don't tend to hold the one second trial poke against you, if it's done in a sufficiently familiar context, and if after they explain to you that they hate it, you stop. Actually, it tends to be the opposite -- they appreciate they you respected their response. It's not unlike an unexpected kiss during a first date: The recipient may like it, or may not like it -- and it may be sexual for you and not for the other person -- but as long as initiator seems aware of, and respectful of, the other person's reaction, the context tends to make the attempt okay.
 
this sounds like the kind of thing a Jared type would do as part of his grooming process
 
Myriads said:
The problem with this is intent.

It's one thing to do something with no knowledge it's a turn on for someone, and quite another to do it purposefully should you have that knowledge. With no knowledge it's an accidental thrill for someone, With knowledge it's being a provocateur, tease or such.

The same with the 'ethical' tickling question, only the subject of the thrill is yourself, and your 'lee' is unknowing unless you inform them.

So you get the base question: Is it ethical to get a sexual thrill from a person whom has no knowledge you are using them thusly?

People always seem to to take tickling and put it into a special box because it has a special position in social touch dynamics that crosses a few areas. Let's look at another example.

You just love running your hands through a woman's thick hair. The longer it is the better. It turns you the hell on like nothing else. One day at a office party you find yourself standing next to your co-workers wife, you all know each other, and gods! Her hair is down to her waist and is so thick, how did you never notice before? Is it cool to reach out and run your hands through it? She doesn't know it turns you on, so it must be fine right? Or how about that woman on the bus next to you, you could just say it looked so soft you wanted to see if it was. And so on...

The real issue here is your INTENT. It's what the morality of the question swings about. Not the roll of trickling in society. Not how the other person may or may not react. It's about what YOU want and want to do to get it. And is it moral to pursue that.

Usually when we want things from other people we do the courtesy of telling them we do and why.

This case is a sexual want. It probably is not appropriate to pull that out of your pack with most people outside of a select few.

And it comes down to how you view transactional issues morally. How much information does your transaction partner get? What can you take from them unknowingly and still be in the good?

Everyone comes up with a different answer. None are exactly more right or wrong, as they all come from different moral frameworks and can't really be compared that way. They can only be compared against a cultural norm.

And our culture has had a few different rules for this sort of thing over the past decades. In some it would be cool to do, in others not so much.

Myriads
Click to expand...

We will just have to strongly disagree on almost everything you are saying.

I suppose in your estimation everyone who ever signed up for a nude art exhibit did it because they wanted to be great artists and not because they got to see a nude model? Is it ethically unfair to the model that some of the might have signed up for this particular reason, or does it just come with the territory? I would argue the risk of being sexually objectified in some way comes with the territory of interacting with other people. If you think this isn't the case, you don't understand human nature.

Can you imagine a world, where people went around asking for mundane every day things because "it turns them on" letting them know "I want this from you for xy and z reason."

Is it not simply enough to say "I'd love to give you a foot massage" or "I'd love to give you a tickle to make you laugh."

Does everyone who does anything fill out a form as to why?

"Mommy, I want this lego set, and here is my list of 50 reasons why I want it."

"Amazon here, we will say yes to this product, but only if you tell us exactly why you want it."

The mentality that would make the exception for this in the realm of a kink, is hand-in hand with a mentality that sexuality is something to be repressed and ashamed of. And ignores the fact that we are programmed to seek sexual thrills and in that regard, simply saying "i want to do X" is perfectly fine--they don't need to know the myriad (no pun intended) of reasons why you might want to--especially if all the reasons you want to might not even be clear to yourself. This road leads to eternal second-guessing and inevitable inaction--which is just a horrible way to live.

Not to mention that it is often a part of human nature to have the "unspokens" think in the same mentality of "wanna come up for coffee?" instead of asking the obvious. When a guy offers a girl a massage for example--both sides want the touching to happen, but the massage is the polite excuse to do so. Imagine getting to a massage through a series of forms indicating "i enjoy the female form and touching a female therefore i want to caress your blah blah blah" in the name of full disclosure.

In my own personal life I've had countless friends of both sexes I've tickled with. I never asked for permission (directly) usually through hints like "im gonna get you" or something to that effect. and they never asked permission with me either directly--happens in the nature of natural banter. every so often i get one whose like "wow, you tickle a lot" to which I simply reply "yeah, I like tickling." and they usually give a "i can tell!" and either run, try to tickle back or even do something to provoke the tickle. plenty of them eventually find out about my fetish. none of them are ever upset by it. if anything they are like "NOW it makes sense!" or "I knew there was something!" in fact it makes many of them more curious and want to get into it deeper.

i can say for sure that in many of the cases, if I had led with "guess what, i like tickling sexually" it would have killed much of the fun (on both sides) well in advance. if not because they would be bothered by the act itself, simply because of the awkwardness of putting it into words. sometimes less is more. and sometimes, going with the flow and presenting something in a fun and relaxed way, creates many more fun times for all.
 
I don't get the comparison between someone knowingly getting naked in front of people for them to see and then someone being touched without consent under ulterior motives. Maybe that's just me tho...

Perhaps if you paid the person you tickled the way the nude models get paid?
 
Being a ticklee has in the past sometimes seemed like an unfortunate orientation -- you don't have much control over the frequency, character, or duration of your tickling experiences, and there are long dry spells -- but conversations like this make me realize that one big plus is that when you're on the receiving end of a tickle-attack you don't have to worry about whether the other person's consenting.
 
chicago said:
I don't get the comparison between someone knowingly getting naked in front of people for them to see and then someone being touched without consent under ulterior motives. Maybe that's just me tho...

Perhaps if you paid the person you tickled the way the nude models get paid?
Click to expand...

you either can't read very well, or are purposefully being obtuse.

I never said touch anyone without consent (even if the consent is indirect) and I specifically mentioned these would be relationships where tickling would be socially acceptable anyway. I don't think anyone here is saying go up to random people and if they are saying that, that's not what I'm suggesting.

But, for the record, as far as nude models, the studio pays them, not the attendees. So your proposed solution there fell a bit short.
 
chicago said:
I don't get the comparison between someone knowingly getting naked in front of people for them to see and then someone being touched without consent under ulterior motives. Maybe that's just me tho...

Perhaps if you paid the person you tickled the way the nude models get paid?
Click to expand...

My point about the nude models was their purpose in being nude is for art--not sexual turn on. Yet its obvious to anyone with a brain that some people go there to get jollys by seeing someone naked. It comes with the territory. Just like interacting with other people, comes the risk of having some people get jollies off you whether you ever know it or not. If you don't like that, feel free to be a recluse, and never have friends of either sex. But if you interact with 200 people in a day, odds are you accidently gave 2-5 of them sexual thrills without knowing it.
 
FeatherFeet said:
you either can't read very well, or are purposefully being obtuse.

I never said touch anyone without consent (even if the consent is indirect) and I specifically mentioned these would be relationships where tickling would be socially acceptable anyway. I don't think anyone here is saying go up to random people and if they are saying that, that's not what I'm suggesting.

But, for the record, as far as nude models, the studio pays them, not the attendees. So your proposed solution there fell a bit short.
Click to expand...

I figured the studio paid them. Thanks for your kind response.
 
I admit it was stupid of me to brin bthat bit up, I only said that because I was reminded of another thread where someone was asking for tips on how to tickle someone who had already told them they hate being tickled.
 
I think tickling is sexually interesting but only if you actively have a situation to apply it to. Otherwise it's tickling to anyone else and it doesn't make sense to paint it as anything else. I don't really let it control me.

But if I tickle someone in a way that denotes my interest, you better believe it'll be fairly obvious.

Idk dude.
 
FeatherFeet said:
We will just have to strongly disagree on almost everything you are saying.

I suppose in your estimation everyone who ever signed up for a nude art exhibit did it because they wanted to be great artists and not because they got to see a nude model? Is it ethically unfair to the model that some of the might have signed up for this particular reason, or does it just come with the territory? I would argue the risk of being sexually objectified in some way comes with the territory of interacting with other people. If you think this isn't the case, you don't understand human nature.

Can you imagine a world, where people went around asking for mundane every day things because "it turns them on" letting them know "I want this from you for xy and z reason."

Is it not simply enough to say "I'd love to give you a foot massage" or "I'd love to give you a tickle to make you laugh."

Does everyone who does anything fill out a form as to why?

"Mommy, I want this lego set, and here is my list of 50 reasons why I want it."

"Amazon here, we will say yes to this product, but only if you tell us exactly why you want it."

The mentality that would make the exception for this in the realm of a kink, is hand-in hand with a mentality that sexuality is something to be repressed and ashamed of. And ignores the fact that we are programmed to seek sexual thrills and in that regard, simply saying "i want to do X" is perfectly fine--they don't need to know the myriad (no pun intended) of reasons why you might want to--especially if all the reasons you want to might not even be clear to yourself. This road leads to eternal second-guessing and inevitable inaction--which is just a horrible way to live.

Not to mention that it is often a part of human nature to have the "unspokens" think in the same mentality of "wanna come up for coffee?" instead of asking the obvious. When a guy offers a girl a massage for example--both sides want the touching to happen, but the massage is the polite excuse to do so. Imagine getting to a massage through a series of forms indicating "i enjoy the female form and touching a female therefore i want to caress your blah blah blah" in the name of full disclosure.

In my own personal life I've had countless friends of both sexes I've tickled with. I never asked for permission (directly) usually through hints like "im gonna get you" or something to that effect. and they never asked permission with me either directly--happens in the nature of natural banter. every so often i get one whose like "wow, you tickle a lot" to which I simply reply "yeah, I like tickling." and they usually give a "i can tell!" and either run, try to tickle back or even do something to provoke the tickle. plenty of them eventually find out about my fetish. none of them are ever upset by it. if anything they are like "NOW it makes sense!" or "I knew there was something!" in fact it makes many of them more curious and want to get into it deeper.

i can say for sure that in many of the cases, if I had led with "guess what, i like tickling sexually" it would have killed much of the fun (on both sides) well in advance. if not because they would be bothered by the act itself, simply because of the awkwardness of putting it into words. sometimes less is more. and sometimes, going with the flow and presenting something in a fun and relaxed way, creates many more fun times for all.
Click to expand...


So, are the LEGO set and the Amazon product analogous to the female friends?
 
GirlMeetsTickle said:
So, are the LEGO set and the Amazon product analogous to the female friends?
Click to expand...

Why are you assuming all the people I'm talking about are female friends as if male friends never tickle each other? Or that females never tickle male friends?

In my personal experience, females tend to be far more willing to initiate touchy-feeliness with men and far less likely to ask permission across the board, whether, tickling, poking, hugging, putting their hands on you etc etc. Somehow though, no one ever complains about this part because it is usually just assumed that men want female attention--even if they don't. And it's generally assumed females don't want male attention--even if they do.

This thread reeks of that type of assumption all around.
 
Wolf said:
It does smack of objectification, doesn't it?
Click to expand...

Day to day life is smacked with objectification. Anyone who denies this is either naive, or lying to themselves. Interact with enough people, you will be objectified in some way shape or form. It's the price of interacting with large groups of people. We can either whine about it--and act like it's an injustice and argue to change something that will never be changed, or we can just accept it and enjoy life anyway. I pick the latter.
 
FeatherFeet said:
Day to day life is smacked with objectification. Anyone who denies this is either naive, or lying to themselves. Interact with enough people, you will be objectified in some way shape or form. It's the price of interacting with large groups of people. We can either whine about it--and act like it's an injustice and argue to change something that will never be changed, or we can just accept it and enjoy life anyway. I pick the latter.
Click to expand...
Well said sir!
 
FeatherFeet said:
Why are you assuming all the people I'm talking about are female friends as if male friends never tickle each other? Or that females never tickle male friends?

In my personal experience, females tend to be far more willing to initiate touchy-feeliness with men and far less likely to ask permission across the board, whether, tickling, poking, hugging, putting their hands on you etc etc. Somehow though, no one ever complains about this part because it is usually just assumed that men want female attention--even if they don't. And it's generally assumed females don't want male attention--even if they do.

This thread reeks of that type of assumption all around.
Click to expand...


I didn’t assume anything. The OP states:

“For me, consciousness of the sexual nature of my fetish makes tickling random female friends unethical because it is obtaining arousal or sexual gratification without their knowledge or ability to willingly consent. Instead of passing a Level One physical touch threshold, they think its Level One but I know that for me its Level Three.“

I was asking if the items you stated were analogous to them.
 
Obviously this community is pretty evenly split on this issue. Pretty interesting. I guess to really answer the question you're asking, I don't really consider it morally wrong to tickle someone even though its a turn on for me. As previously stated, I'm extremely uncomfortable with stranger on stranger tickling. Its very weird and can potentially end very badly for said random tickler, as in prison time or a lawsuit.

Acquaintances and friends? It depends on the relationship. If im at a level where we're hugging each other and stuff, then I don't really see any harm in a quick random tickle, regardless of my inner feelings, so long as it doesn't get too out of hand.

The real moral issue for me comes down to whether or not the person on the receiving end is being harmed or affected in any way whether it be physically, mentally, emotionally, etc. At face value, it's tickling. It'd be one thing if im walking up and grabbing and fondling my friends breasts or crotch regions. That could harm them on a mental and emotional level with lasting consequences, not to mention legal issues. But a simple poke to the side or ribs or running a finger down their bare foot? I fail to see how any lasting harm could come from that. And if it bothers them and they tell me not to do it, understood. Never again.

For the most part, tickling has always been a playful and fun aspect for me.
 
GirlMeetsTickle said:
I didn’t assume anything. The OP states:

“For me, consciousness of the sexual nature of my fetish makes tickling random female friends unethical because it is obtaining arousal or sexual gratification without their knowledge or ability to willingly consent. Instead of passing a Level One physical touch threshold, they think its Level One but I know that for me its Level Three.“

I was asking if the items you stated were analogous to them.
Click to expand...

No, it wasn't meant to be an analogy to them. It was meant to say imagine if we went through life having to identify specific wants for everything we tried to get. Or list all the reason. Would be a very rigid life.

I think it is enough to simply state you want someone--the other side can either agree, or disagree or ask more questions. And then one can decide if they wanna answer or not. When people ask me why I want to tickle or be tickled I say "i like tickling" usually it ends with that and in most cases that's more than enough. I don't need to go into the complicated pseudo sexuality of it for me every time.
 
Yea the idea of saying to one of my friends " hey um I was wondering if maybe I could tickle you. Cause its a turn on for me and I want to make sure its ok with you" LOL. That just makes the moment strange when it doesnt have to be.
 
Not sure if you understand what an analogy is, but I see it again...

FeatherFeet said:
No, it wasn't meant to be an analogy to them. It was meant to say imagine if we went through life having to identify specific wants for everything we tried to get. Or list all the reason. Would be a very rigid life.

I think it is enough to simply state you want someone--the other side can either agree, or disagree or ask more questions. And then one can decide if they wanna answer or not. When people ask me why I want to tickle or be tickled I say "i like tickling" usually it ends with that and in most cases that's more than enough. I don't need to go into the complicated pseudo sexuality of it for me every time.
Click to expand...

If you aren't going to see it, though, then I guess you just won't.

Anyway, sure, I imagined what you said. It just seems like a deflection, though, because whether or not someone is ethically obligated to divulge their thoughts has absolutely nothing to do with whether it’s ethical for someone to take clandestine sexually-motivated actions on someone. And a person who tries to cover their bases by [under]informing the other person (“I like tickling”, etc) would still fall in that scope if they feel their true motivations are still concealed. If you’re wondering what other choice someone could have in that scenario, one is to not tickle the person *and* not reveal their thoughts about being aroused by tickling.
 
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