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Profit sharing from customs that are sold publicly?

TheSolemnOne

TheSolemnOne

TMF Expert
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
534
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28
I know this could get hairy, but I am curious to hear others thoughts. Over the past year, I have commissioned a few custom clips from various producers. The customs are later sold for a cheaper price to the general public after I paid a higher rate to have the clip produced.

If a customer pays a premium to have a clip produced, picks the model, develops a storyline that resonates with the community (thus leading to additional sales), should the producer share the profits with the customer? I am interested in hearing from both sides of the equation on this topic.
 
I've bought "customs" with it being understood it would be sold as any regular clip from that producer. I just paid more to see what specifically I wanted. Unless there's a specific agreement to not sell it publicly, I don't see the problem. The initial deal was "I'll give you this if you make ___", not that it would be a video exclusive to me.
 
I would think terms like that should be spelled out in the agreement beforehand.
 
I don't really see an issue as well. I paid for a custom clip with Tickle Intensive that's Star Wars themed, and I would not be surprised if one day he decides to offer it for sale.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 
ArtOfDeFeet said:
I know this could get hairy, but I am curious to hear others thoughts. Over the past year, I have commissioned a few custom clips from various producers. The customs are later sold for a cheaper price to the general public after I paid a higher rate to have the clip produced.

If a customer pays a premium to have a clip produced, picks the model, develops a storyline that resonates with the community (thus leading to additional sales), should the producer share the profits with the customer? I am interested in hearing from both sides of the equation on this topic.
Click to expand...

Not unless you're entering into a business arrangement with them. Otherwise, you're simply paying for a product or a service - not being hired as a consultant. It's the same argument that can be made by models who claim that since X amount of profit has been made from a clip they were involved in, they should also be entitled to a cut.

If a producer is going to sell the clip then they should ideally make you aware of that beforehand. If you are not prepared for them to sell it however, then you should also be prepared to pay more to have a completely private clip. If the money you are paying barely covers the expense of making it, then there's little incentive for them to organise, shoot and produce the clip for you without selling it too.
 
I've gotten some customs over the last year from GTK, TickleBabes, and tickle_me_amy. Almost all of them have gone up for sale afterward and I'm fine with that. As turtleboy said, unless you're entering into some sort of specific agreement ahead of time, the product is essentially theirs to do what they want with.

It's worth noting also that Amy specifically tried selling her clips at a higher price point to try and seem more "fair" to the people who originally commissioned them and was criticized for her pricing.
 
As the others stated, you are paying for the creation of your fantasy when you buy a custom. If you want exclusivity, you’d pay a heck of a lot more.
 
The only possible advantage you might receive from the custom is if the producer decided to film additional clips with the model hired for your custom if their time has already been paid for via the custom. Then if additional clips of the model are produced at the same time, you could get an opportunity to buy them at a cheaper price.
 
Thanks for responses so far. I also purchased customs knowing that they would be sold later on. I was just curious if anyone else had ever thought about profit sharing as an option.
From what I am hearing (correct me if I am wrong), producers are taking customs at a lost initially and making up those loses by selling the clip to the general public.
 
ArtOfDeFeet said:
From what I am hearing (correct me if I am wrong), producers are taking customs at a lost initially and making up those loses by selling the clip to the general public.
Click to expand...

You're wrong.

No producer with half a brain would take a loss on a custom expecting to make back the difference on third-party sales. That's why they're usually so expensive to commission; you're paying for every expense related to the making of the clip, from model wages to producer's time to space rental to costumes and props to editing labor to whatever.

There's no reason for a producer not to post it for sale unless the customer specifically asks for it to be a one-off. I mean, we took the time to make it and other people might want to buy it, so why not? The fact that most producers charge more for a one-off doesn't really have a lot to do with the theoretical "loss" of profit that comes from not being able to sell the clip. It's just that, hey; if you want me to go through the entire rigamarole of putting together a custom just for you, then you're going to make it worth my while, especially if I could have posted that same clip to my store and made an extra fitty bucks or so from additional sales. But the thing about additional sales versus one-offs is above and beyond covering the cost of the custom; once it hits your Dropbox or the storefront, it's been paid for by the person who asked for it. The rest is just details and preference.
 
I specifically ask my customers as part of the commission process if they want exclusive rights to the video, and will indicate the price difference at that time.

Frequently the customs would appeal to a wide variety of my fans, and if I can give the custom fantasy to the person making the commission, and share or sell it to other fans, to enjoy as well, I don't feel that the ideas provided are alone worth profit sharing.

To me, this would be akin to me giving a discount on the custom because all of the ideas were provided to me.
 
I appreciate the responses. It was just a thought that I had a month or two ago while ordering a custom. I guess that I was thinking about it more from an investor perspective, not just a consumer.
I understand and appreciate the amount of work, and money, that goes into producing media in our community; I am not trying to trivialize that effort. My initial thought came from the time that I put into developing a plot/storyline for the clip and the money invested in the production. I was thinking about it from the standpoint of a writer who develops a script for a production company and/or an investor who invest in the production of media. There is usually some type of return for that writer or investor. I get that not all custom ideas are unique to the requestor, so I can understand the view that royalties/profit sharing aren't warranted.
I agree, if it isn't agreed upon before the deal is made, then the understanding should be that the media will be sold to the general public.
 
Jericho716 said:
Videos are little more than masturbation fodder. There are plenty of penny stocks and crypto options for investors.
Click to expand...

I am not looking at it as an investment strategy; it was just a thought while purchasing a custom.
 
You absolutely have an interesting point, but you would have to use the approach of collaborator, rather than customer when making the deal. I can see if you write a very detailed script with dialogue and scenes and characters, but the majority of people are not putting that much effort into their customs. But... My returns are definitely not enough to support making customs for the financial benefit of the customer. Maybe more popular lees/producers are in a different position than I am.
 
I get what you're saying. As a person who has also ordered many custom clips, I always wondered about how I just paid hundreds of dollars for a clip, when someone can get them for like $10-$15 or free on Pornhub. Which is why I am totally against trading clips. Dammit, I forked over $300 to have a clip made, why on earth would i trade a clip?

But, in each case I have been told that they will sell the clip. In a way, my focus turned towards I hope my clip is a major "bestseller". There would be a satisfaction that my idea would be very popular. I know I do not profit from any of it, and I don't expect. It would suck though if my idea made the studio thousands of dollars, but the likelihood of that is small. Very small. So, I see it as something to be proud of if it becomes popular. In fact, I want the studio to see how my idea becomes popular and maybe they will do more of it. In a way I wish it was just a private custom, but I understand why studios sell the clip. More power to them.
 
ArtOfDeFeet said:
I know this could get hairy, but I am curious to hear others thoughts. Over the past year, I have commissioned a few custom clips from various producers. The customs are later sold for a cheaper price to the general public after I paid a higher rate to have the clip produced.

If a customer pays a premium to have a clip produced, picks the model, develops a storyline that resonates with the community (thus leading to additional sales), should the producer share the profits with the customer? I am interested in hearing from both sides of the equation on this topic.
Click to expand...

No. Unless that was negotiated with the producer in advance of course.

If you as the customer had the ability to make the clip yourself and the recognition within the buying public to sell it you could do it yourself and wouldn't need the producer.

Besides, how would you ever know how many copies the producer sold, how much money they made, etc.?
 
BareftBombshell said:
You absolutely have an interesting point, but you would have to use the approach of collaborator, rather than customer when making the deal. I can see if you write a very detailed script with dialogue and scenes and characters, but the majority of people are not putting that much effort into their customs. But... My returns are definitely not enough to support making customs for the financial benefit of the customer. Maybe more popular lees/producers are in a different position than I am.
Click to expand...

Totally understand your perspective and others who have replied. I really appreciate these responses.
 
ArtOfDeFeet said:
I know this could get hairy, but I am curious to hear others thoughts. Over the past year, I have commissioned a few custom clips from various producers. The customs are later sold for a cheaper price to the general public after I paid a higher rate to have the clip produced.

If a customer pays a premium to have a clip produced, picks the model, develops a storyline that resonates with the community (thus leading to additional sales), should the producer share the profits with the customer? I am interested in hearing from both sides of the equation on this topic.
Click to expand...


In the past the rule was pretty much:

When ordering the clip, future rights would be discussed when pricing was being negotiated. If the clip was going to be reserved for you and you alone, then you might see price X. If you were willing to let the studio retain copyright and sell it later, then many were amicable to a slightly lower price for you pay to get it made.

No studio is going to want to get into a profit sharing model, as that means an epic headache of book keeping, and also opening their sales history to any such person as to make the agreement transparent. And that sort of thing is not what anyone wants to do AND it's a pain in the ass if you have a few dozen of those active, just think of having to cut a check to a few dozen people every time a clip sold going forward forever. No thanks.

So basically as a buyer, you may be able to get a slight price cut (You'll still pay for the models, travel, any props in total) but they might shave a few bucks off their up front profit in light of future sales if they think they will happen.

Myriads
 
Myriads said:
No studio is going to want to get into a profit sharing model, as that means an epic headache of book keeping, and also opening their sales history to any such person as to make the agreement transparent. And that sort of thing is not what anyone wants to do AND it's a pain in the ass if you have a few dozen of those active, just think of having to cut a check to a few dozen people every time a clip sold going forward forever. No thanks.
Click to expand...

Fun facts:

I have to deal with this as a musician. I was dumb enough to record a cover song on my first album and once I found out how much nonsense I had to go through regarding royalties I breathed a heavy sigh of relief over my distributor handling the bulk of it. Most fetish producers are not doing this full-time. They certainly aren't going to want to deal with that, especially not for the money the average clip pulls in.

Speaking of musicians, "Weird Al" Yankovic pays royalties to the original artists not for his parodies, but for the songs he covers in his polka medleys. Each artist is compensated based on how much of their song is used. Al has said in interviews that every time he does a medley it's a "nightmare of paperwork".
 
I wonder what would be the price difference on average between a custom and retaining the copyright so the buyer could resell? 150/200 to 300/50
0/1000?
 
ticklingandfeet said:
I wonder what would be the price difference on average between a custom and retaining the copyright so the buyer could resell?
Click to expand...

It probably wouldn't be possible, because the producer literally can't sell a video that they don't have the rights to. It's against the TOS of every adult video platform on the Internet. The only thing that would work is if you both shared the distribution rights, and honestly there's no point for the buyer to try and re-sell because odds are pretty good anywhere that they would be able to, the original producer is already using so they'd just be competing.
 
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