I need ur help

[Ticklemmmeeeeee]

I am deeply disturbed by something and I need ur help...I am upset primarily because it is a bit emotionally unnerving to say the least to be deceived...and then to be deceived by someone that u were intimate with and showed a level of yourself that u do not usually show other people is even a deeper betrayal...I am sure I am not alerting anyone to anything novel here I have been recently deceived in what I consider a huge way by someone i cared for very much and grew very close to online...she and I have never spoken on the telephone because she has always had a reason not to and more recently it has become necessary for me to have that confirmation that she is really who she says she is and still she refuses and turns it back on me that I am demanding and rude and hurt her...sad I have my doubts (after what happened ) that she is really a female and I will tell u that hurts the most...I know many people have in jest taken on an identity online to seek answers they may not otherwise have been able to get, I think that's harmless...I have done it myself in the past , especially when I was first learning about my interest in tikcling...I was terrified that someone might know me and think I was a weirdo...so i would just delete that name and make another, no harm done. I have and still do chat with "females" here and there taht I know really are men but I think it's cute and a bit endearing as well as sad that people feel they have to do that in order to get someone to talk to them and answer questions they may have...no harm done again ....and the reason for that is because there is no intimacy shared, just information really...no bond created ...no closeness shared that is based upon a lie regarding that persons true identity...and I am not talking about age...there have been people that have told me they were 40 and I found out they were 18...and people who have described themselves physically in a way that I am almost sure wasn't accurate...but it doesn't change who a person is inside and their intent is not to hurt but to seek information and a person with mutual interest to talk to....I even used to tell people I was much older because until i did no one really took me seriously...I have gained much self confidence since then and realized that it isn't necessary, I have also met many more people my own age so that makes it much easier as well.....the deception I am speaking of here is that of a deeper and more hurtful kind.....pretending to be a female to gain access to my inner thoughts, feelings, desires and secrets and then used them against me.....and to gain access to a part of me that is sacred under the guise of being someone else...that is never ever okay...it's wrong...and it hurts...I am sure that more than a few of u have experienced that online or in person...I am sure that this person that did this to me has experienced great pain and deception in her/his life...I feel badly for that but I am torn with feelings of betrayal and bitterness that I do not like having to deal with,. The reason I am telling u this is for two reasons...
1. Pathetic as it may sound...I am in need of some support to be honest, talking to this person again as I did this a.m. leaves me feeling shakey and upset...because I am mourning the friendship of someone who does not exist
2. I am in need of honest feedback as to how I am handling the situation and could benefit from the expertise of this panel in areas I am wavery in...how to deal with the problem, what I should do regarding the "friendship" (what do u do when the person u know lied to u so much is still someone u miss? I loved / love her

Thanks so much in advance for any insight or advice u have, I really appreciate it...I will give u the briefest of backgrounds leading up to the actual email she sent me this a.m. and my responses to her....I will be brief because I am sure there will be questions and I will answer them or give that info then for the sake of brevity...I will at no time reveal hers or her so called husbands identity (they are the same person, I believe) They or at least he is or was a member here on TMF, there is a strong chance that he was an oppositional member or has been removed because they "both" have spoken many times of their hatred of the TMF and people here being snobby, etc....usually an indication to me that they wanted to be rude and weren't allowed to...sad...thanks so much in advance

I met "Laura" online through her husband, we will call him Chris... he and I had never really chatted in depth...it was more of a cute mutual hell how are u today kinda thing and I liked him...he made me laugh...I believe he "created" Laura because he knew I would confide in a woman in a way I would not with him....hence, she appeared very suddenly one night after he and I had a brief convo online in which he asked intimate questions I wished to not respond to.......he was polite about it , left and then she appeared....we hit it off...she had the same sense of humor that he did...we had the most hilarious conversations...I thought she was cool and we shared a love of tickling...something I had never had with another female...this went on for a few months...we always chatted, like every day...she was the first person i looked for when I signed on...and I believe i was for her as well...we had more great conversations than I can bore u with...I loved her and she was the very best female friend I have ever had without actually talking to or meeting....(I am crying as I write this) then one day I sent her a few new pics I have (now these are pics that I have only shared with verrry few poeple because I am in a bikini and I do not flash my pics around...one because I think i look terrible...lol...and two because I just don't see a reason to send revealing pics to people I will prob never meet, I see no point...I will give people a pic of my feet or face but that's about it...) anyway, so this is an area where she/he had access to a part of me that most men online do not....that is a great betrayal to me...and this is what happened next...she told me I was beautiful and sexy and we flirted a bit (now mind u I believed she is a girl ) I asked for her pic and she played this silly game taht grew annoying very quickly of sending me pics of Roxanne Chadwick, I am sure u all know who she is.....now "Laura" had labeled the pics things such as "who the f*ck am I?" and "Who am i now?" and I thought that was weird....Once we had established that i knew who R. C. was and I had been an adoring fan, even having an entire photo album of her at one point on my groups...Laura asked me questions like "how many pics of Roxanne have u seen?" ...now suddenly she gets defensive because she sent me a pic that I knew was R.C., I had seen it before....now she starts feeling sick...and needs to go, I get worried and ask to call her, she is adament about not talking, says she sounds terrible...says she will call Chris, he gets home like 2 min later and instead of helping his now almost near death passing out wife he signs online to tell me what he is going to do, he tells me someone broke into their house and was still there (at that moment!) and now he proceeds to tell me the intruder is outside and that he is going outside to beat him up....I was upset at first because in the heat of passion u just have no common sense and I was not even thinking he was lying......I had to leave the comp because of another obligationa nd when I returned he had sent me a nasty im because I had to leave in a hurry...long story short...he said I hurt Laura because I now had suspicions about her/his identity, now he sends me an email calling me foul names, I say I don't want to be bothered by them anymore and he threatens me saying he will find me because he has hundreds of names and I will never know who he is....I say I can solve that by not chatting with anyone, he gets furious and says he will sabatoge my groups, I say go ahead and I have not talked to them again. He sent an apology to my group when I opened it again, I reponded as a post on my group becaue I was a bit unnerved that he used my group as an arena for our personal issue so I wanted people to know what it ws that he was apologizing for . and then today this. (sorry this is so long)



In a message dated 9/2/2003 11:10:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, @hotmail.com writes:

She wrote: (we'll call Her Laura)I really needed somebody to listen to me, and you couldn't be there
for you.

Laura...I opened my ims to chat and one of the primary reasons I did it was to see u...believe that or don't, I never say things just to make someone feel good because I hate it when people do that to me. You im'ed me before i could respond and before I even said hello to u, you started getting angry with me....I am assuming the above line is a typo and what u meant to write is that you couldn't be there for me...I didn't ask anything of u, I simply made myself available to say hi and to see how u were doing and u started lashing out at me about the fact that I made someone else my mod for one of my groups...

Laura wrote...
You don't really understand how hard it is for me. You especially
don't understand how hard it was for me to just sit there and take you
walking off on me. You couldn't even listen to my problems. Maybe I wouldn't
lash out if you listened to me. You couldn't even give me the benefit of the
doubt and listen to me.

Laura...I am in the profession of building. encouraging and developing communication skills...I know how to have a conversation, what u seem to not realize is that it takes LISTENING to the other person as well as saying what u want them to know....you were not have a conversation with me, u were barking things at me and not even giving me a chance to respond...that is a Laura rant not a two way conversation...I asked you two times calmly to say or ask me one thing at a time so I could respond so we could ahve a real discussion but u refused so I left. I'm very sorry u had a rough weekend, but u never even said that (that I recall) during our im this a.m., u started yelling at me (something I do not like) and accusing me of lying to u because I "promised" u to be mod of my group and then made someone else mod...and u never let me explain that either, which I will at the end of this letter whether or not u wish to read it.

Laura writes...I had the roughest weekend ever. I tried to tell
you. But you didnt listen. You had to say your two cents everytime of what
you thought. That's downright rude. You were rude, and insensitive.

I was never rude to u I was firm...I do not stay in one way discussions with people who want to say what they want to say to ME and not give me a chance to respond...that's a monologue not a conversation . Again, I reiterate,. I told u I did not want to argue, that I wanted to see how u were doing and that I would discuss whatever u wished but I asked that u talk to me respectfully and one statement or question at a time (or one point at a time)...u were ot telling me how u felt or asking me a question I could respond to instead u hurled ur angry accusations at me and let me have the brunt of whatever anger has been obviously brewing in ur mind since we last spoke...I am sorry u had a bad weekend but it is not my job to be the one u take it out on.

Laura writes...You
ought to be fucking ashamed of yourself. You call me "friend" yet you treat
me like fucking dirt.

I am ashamed of nothing. I never lied to u, never deceived u, never was rude or disrespectful to u...it is u who should be ashamed for the way u treat people and still expect them to want to listen to u and call u friend....I treat no one like dirt, but for the way u talk to me I really should not even be responding to this letter of talking to u with the level of respect that I am.

Laura writes...Now I'm gonna tell you about my horrible weekend
whether you want me to or not. First of all, One of my longtime good
friends, for years, just completely turned her tail on me. This was a girl I
trusted and cared for like a sister. I found out she was just...using
me....see, she's bi too. She was just using me to get a cheap thrill...I
mean, the only time I actually heard from her when was she was horny. And so
I confronted her about it, and her and her friends ended up ridiculing me
about it. That was one of the most heartbeaking moments of my life. You have
no idea how badly I cried.

I'm really sorry that happened to u, I know too well how that feels to be deceived...

Laura writes...and then on sunday...to top it all off, I
clumsily slipped, and I fell right on my stomache. I have no idea how much
damage was caused, but that was the most painful thing to ever happen to me
in my life. I'm lucky none of the staples came out.

I'm sorry that happened to u as well, I hope u had it checked out and that ur okay

Laura writes...And then, to top it
off...you just now shoved me aside and treated me like garbage.

How did I do that? I blocked ur ims because u were basically harrassaing me and then after we "made up" I still was hurt and feeling like I couldn't trust u entirely....just because someone forgives u Laura does not erase whatever pain they may have that moment, it takes time and reflection to know how u really feel ...at least for me it does...I value friendship as something deeper than that so maybe it is different for me. I have never treated a living soul like garbage.

Laura writes...You insulted
my intelligence, you insulted me as a fucking human being. How DARE you say
"I need somebody level headed to represent me". That was a low blow. That
was really low. How fucking dare you talk to me like that.

I never insulted ur intelligence, u insult yourself everytime u say things like u just did and the way u say them. I said (I was trying to explain why I made the decision I made to mod rpgiles and others and not u for my groups) I need people representing my group that are level headed, meaning that they have a basic consideration for others...and know how to express themselves without being rude or offenive...and after the incident between u me and chris I am not certain u possess those qualities....I am not saying that to hurt u, it is simply a statement of how I feel...I was about to tell u that I needed time to talk to u and regain the trust we had between us and now because certain questions were raised (due to ur behavior regarding ur true identity (that being whether or not u are really a female and not the same person as chris instead of his wife) I needed to know that ....I do not think that is alot to ask...all I asked is that u talk to me for a few minutes on the phone to prove me wrong and I even told u that I would be forever sorry once I found out that u are who u are...I loved u so much Laura...u were the only female friend into tickling I had...and do not for one momment think that u are the only one who has been hurt...I just don't attack to show my pain, I withdraw and reflect and try to protect myself from it happeneing again...I never intended to hurt u just protect myself from being hurt more.

Laura writes...Yeah, I called
you a few names. Big deal. It's not like any human being has heard them
before. I'd rather have somebody call me a whore then insult my fucking
intelligence and character.

They are one and the same...to me...I do not allow people to treat me in any way that I would not treat them, i would never call my worse enemy the names u and ur husband called me and I didn't like it and I still do not, so it is a big deal to me.

Laura writes...Not only that, but you broke our friendship and
my trust for you.

How did I break ur trust in me? You will have to explain that one to me.

Laura : You made me feel so horrible, I'm crying. I feel so awful
right now, because it seems like nobody even cares the slightest bit about
me except for Chris.

I loved u, I would love u again if I know who u really are but you caused this rift not me I am simply reacting to it. I am sorry ur crying, I cried too the day that all happened.

Laura: You even lied to me about not discussing it after we
made up.

I didn't lie to u, I never said we didn't discuss it Laura, I said I needed to discuss it more, I said we never resolved it.

Laura: I get angry and lash out at you because you're so fucking demanding
and you feel as everything should go your way or the high way. That's
downright snobby and just plain rude. I don't know where you get off talking
to somebody such as myself like that.

I am not demanding I just have limits as to how I allow people to treat me and u don't like limits so u get angry. I am the least snobby or rude person u will ever meet and u think otherwise u never really knew me.

Laura: I feel sorry for your daughter, that
she's being raised by somebody such YOURSELF. She's going to grow up to be a
rude, snobby bitch. It's all your fault.

Do not ever refer to my daughter again.

Laura: You're heartless. You're a rotten
mother, and a HORRIBLE excuse for a human being.

I scare u because I am open and honest and have nothing to hide so I have no reason to treat people badly. I feel so bad for u.

Laura: You probably won't even
read this, cuz ya know, I'm not good enough for you little miss prissy
bitch, but if you do, I EXPECT feedback. If you have any fucking decency in
any part of you, you'll reply.

I am replying becuse I want to, don't tell me what to do because ur never going to get it that way. I do not know how I feel about u anymore, I am not sure I even want to try and resolve anything or have a friendship with u, give me some time and respond if u wish but please refrain from the negative things u say and how you say them or I will sever all ties with u and all of ur identities, I know who they are I am naieve but I'm not stupid Take care Laura
M



__________________________________________________ _______________
Get MSN 8 and help protect your children with advanced parental controls.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/parental

[AphxA]

omg thats so horrible. I dont know what to say. I am really bad with advice. But maybe you guys should talk this out. People say alot of mean things when there angry(ive been there)so maybe she didnt mean everything she said to you. In fact maybe this is a bad idea for me to give advice to a female. I think the best solution is to talk to another female. I hope i have been some what helpful!!but knowing me ive probably messed things up further!really sorry ticklemeee thats soo sad

[Sunriseticklee]

Originally posted by Ticklemmmeeeeee
Some words edited out. 1. Pathetic as it may sound...I am in need of some support to be honest, talking to this person again as I did this a.m. leaves me feeling shakey and upset...because I am mourning the friendship of someone who does not exist
2. I am in need of honest feedback as to how I am handling the situation and could benefit from the expertise of this panel in areas I am wavery in...how to deal with the problem, what I should do regarding the "friendship" (what do u do when the person u know lied to u so much is still someone u miss? I loved / love her

I can't tell you what to do to take away the pain from the lies and the betrayal. Only time can mend that.... However, in regards to the friendship. Ticklemee, understand this. When a person lies to you to gain your trust, verbally abuses and manipulates you to keep control over your life, that is no friend. Never has been.

There are so many wonderful people out there who are genuine. Many who would love to be your friend. Many who have gone through what you have gone through... some less, some much worse. The difference and the healing lies within you. You will be a survivor, a will be a fighter. You will not let this freeze you or lord over your emotions. You will not give this person control over your life. You are stronger than that.

My advice to you is to completely let it go. When a person doesn't even value feelings, or respect you enough to listen to what you have to say, that isn't the type of person to be around, or talk to. Move on. BUT don't take bitterness and anger with you. Forgive the person, and let them go. Wish them well, and let time, your family, and your true friends help you heal on the inside.

I hope this encourages you. No one deserves to be treated the way you have, and you no longer have to put up with it.

If you just need to talk about anything at all... (Doesn't have to be this), you can reach me on yahoo- Sunriseticklee.

Take Care,
Sunrise

[Ticklemmmeeeeee]

aphxa....Thank u you didn't mess anything up atall, I appreciate ur concern and ur offer that the advice/comments I get be from females is one I respect more than I can even say...thank u

Sunriseticklee... Thank u so much...u are very right in everything u say...u bet I won't take the anger and bitterness with me, I have too many good friends and trusted acquaintances for this to ruin my faith in people in general....u told me what I should have known but needed to hear...(sometimes u just need to hear someone else express it That said, what u said about her not being a real friend to me and never having been is so accurate...I know that, if she / he were a real friend he would never have treated me that way...ur also right about just letting it go...I have to say I wanted and was looking for a response from him/her but I am actualy happy that i didn't get one...it's easier that way to just let go...thank u I still feel a loss and prob will for some time but I guess that is normal....I would love to talk to u sometime...perhaps I will take u up on that offer to chat on yahoo...I don't chat much these days but I'll add u to my budlist...thank u! byeeee 4 now

[pghtickleguy]

Ticklemmmeeeeee,
She/He whoever was never really your friend. That whole story is insane and I'm thinking you for that matter noone needs anyone like that in there life. It reminds me of a song by TLC called "Case OF THE FAKE PEOPLE". It's rules that I live by. I hope that your faith in people isn't destroyed. There are still a lot of good one's out there. Me included!!!!!!!!!! I truely feel for you because when you lose trust it's very hard to deal with. I guess live and learn and you will be wiser because of it. I hope all goes well with you and I hope you would consider me someone who would like to be an online friend at least with you. Take good care and hope to chat soon.


pghtickleguy

[Ticklemmmeeeeee]

Pghtklguy...Thank u Nope, I won't let that ruin my ability to trust, not even close....it took me years to get to believe that people are genuinly trustworthy, I won't let this take that away Thanks

[kurchatovium]

If you need to to talk Ticklemmmeeeeee. Email me at dloguerc@sprynet.com I'll be happy to help if I can.

[Ticklemmmeeeeee]

thanx Kurch, I emailed ya :::wuv:::

[Oddjob0226]

Cut them both loose - even if it's one person! They showed what they were made of. It's a bad scene (I had to go through this THREE times recently, 2 real time friends here in TX and an on-line person in Canada) but you have to go on.

BTW - I'm not fake. I can't co-host a gathering and fake that!

[Ticklemmmeeeeee]

Thanx oddjob

[Knox The Hatter]

Here's my shoulder...
I'm me, and Knox The Hatter I'll always be, and I'm someone you can genuinely talk to without fear of me finding a way to psychologically undress you, and even worse. Everyone knows me here. If you wanna talk to me, you're free to do so...



knoxthehatter@hotmail.com

[Ticklemmmeeeeee]

Thank u knox

[MrPartickler]

You're response to this situation reminds me of how mine used to be long ago with similar online situations...
Trying to be the voice of reason in the face of someone being unreasonable; trying to act rationally in spite of another's irrational behavior; trying to "work it out;" trying to give them the benefit of the doubt; etc, etc.

However, in the end it always turned out the same for me: MY getting tired and frustrated with no real resolution whatsoever. And (even if they'd apologize later) they'd never address the real issue(s) or even try to make things right. They really just wanted to continue taking advantage of my kindness...(or naivete ).

It's very noble and admirable of you to try as hard as you obviously did with him/her/them. Honestly, when I read it I was quite impressed at how diplomatic and genuinely nice a person you seem to be. Still, once someone's *really* unreasonable behavior starts I find it best to break things off fairly quickly. Then, (hopefully after cooling off) they'll realize what an ass they've been and things (again, hopefully) haven't gone past the point of no return for either party. Reconciliation has been rare in my experience, but when it did it was with a TRUE friend (almost 3 years now and still going strong).

Sadly it happens fairly often (especially online) .... misinderstandings gone awry, broken promises, unreciprocated acts of good faith (e.g., swaps of personal info or pics or even sharing of time and energy), etc. I've certainly come to expect it all in one form or another. So I give a little at first and see if trust (and, hence, friendship) is even possible. Things should be pretty evenhanded for real friendships to build IMHO. So once I see someone won't come forward with sharing something with me that I've already shared with them, I get ready to get at least one foot out the door. I give a little time to reassure myself, but if no sincere efforts are made on their part, everything halts there. I'll give no more of myself at that point; that includes my time, patience, or understanding.

Well, sorry for the rant, but I (and probably most of us) have been there too in one way or another. It feels bad for a time but heals quickly with real friends around. And they're all over.

You're sweet, Ticklem^3e^6 . Make sure you stay that way.

[TKpervert]

Ticlkemmmeeeeeee, you're dealing with an unbalanced individual here.
Unless you are planning a face-to-face rescue mission with this person (not advised) terminate all correspondence.

Seems like it's all downhill from here and you don't need that.

[chrisheaven]

TM, Hi!
Here for you always
I,m just me- not pretending to be anyone else.

My advice would be to terminate the "conversation" with this individual immediately- I'd say that by continuing, even with the very best of intentions of helping that I,m sure you have, you are unknowingly feeding this person's problem(s).

Hope it all goes well!
Regards,
Chris.