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last decade's changing tendancies in tickling videos

hlkkln

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Nov 12, 2005
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Me personnally i realize that the tendency in tickling sector has shifted from m/f toward f/f and also 10 years ago f/m videos were very very rare but now they are nearly as numerous as m/f ... it means that in the past female models were serving predominantly as ticklee but now most of the popular ticklers are female...
First of all do you realise also such a change or do you think it is my misperception... and secondly if you agree with me what are your assesments especially about the resons
 
Is it possible to move it ti discussion forum... it was my mistake :-( i do not know how to move
 
I think it's your misperception. The first tickle film I saw in the mid 80's was f/f, written m/m stories back then too, earlier women like Dorothy Laine, and Kristine Imboch started producing and directing their own videos, my first few years here anyone tried to post any f/m or m/m would get pounced on hard by the homophobes, which was a very loud, obnoxious and immature group at the time. So it's all been there, but yes there are more producers, and most folks seem to be more relaxed about it now.
 
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I think it's your misperception. The first tickle film I saw in the mid 80's was f/f, written m/m stories back then too, earlier women like Dorothy Laine, and Kristine Imboch started producing and directing their own videos, my first few years here anyone tried to post any f/m or m/m would get pounced on hard by the homophobes, which was a very loud, obnoxious and immature group at the time. So it's all been there, but yes there are more producers, and most folks seem to be more relaxed about it now.

May be you have reason that there were also so many f/f in the past but i m not sure thay they were son predominant as they are now... i can give some concrete exemples from companies like tickle central and tickle horror which were doing both f/f and m/f but then they ceased to produce m/f products as well as fmconcepts which inreased the proportion of f/f...
 
I've done a lot of interviews with producers over the years, and have built up a lot of information on the history of the tickling video market. Some info:

The industry has had a number of distinct phases, which unsurprisingly have been driven by financial forces first, and technological ones second.

The first wave of honest to gosh Tickling Videos aimed directly at the tickling paraphiliac came from big porn houses, that figured out there was a market in producing stuff for smaller audience segments. Vid-Tech, Platinum, and a few others. They basically took the basic porn template and then subbed in fetish content. They worked their way down the list of paraphilia, feet, B&D, watersports, tickling. You got little made up plots, and tickling fit in. It was almost all f/f as the template was lifted from the base porn sorts of the time, by the very same companies that made it.

A good deal of it sucked. And not just sucked, was honestly bad.

This led to a second wave of producers to enter the market. These companies were oriented on JUST producing fetish material. They usually started with Bondage, but would branch out into feet, and tickling, and other specific things. They shared an understanding of the fetish outlook, and the material they produced was better. Harmony and FM are two examples of this wave. They were still plot centric videos. There was a paper thin story, and tickling. M/f got more play here, based on story needs, and more importantly (in FM's case) cost. It was easier to use a guy to tickle rather then paying two models, though they caught on quickly that hiring two girls and using them against each other in two clips switching the lee/Ler rolls made more cash.

Which is the real basis for so much f/f content. It sells miles better then M/F. Economics set the mold for much of what would come next.

Technology brought in the next wave of producers. Cameras and Editing bays got cheaper. MTP, Tickling Paradise, Soulfully Yours, and Tickler in Blacks operation (Which shifted names) all are of this era. Many of them used M/F templates for pure cost reasons. They could only afford one model at a time. But all of them knew that F/F sold better and whenever possible they would pair models. FM shifted in this era to much more F/F stuff also. And perhaps most importantly, the idea that a video needed to have a story was tossed overboard. Videos became very much like the amateur porn of the previous decade. It was all about getting to what the customer wanted, and to hell with the rest. You like tickling? Here is nothing but. And given that F/F was the customer desired material, with no 'story needs' M/F faded even more.

Easy credit card processing came along, and that field MTP's success, and TC's too. And they started to do almost nothing but F/F following the money.

But tech moved on. Clips became a viable format, and download on demand along with it. Cips4Sale came along, removing the issues of building a payment capture site, and the hurdles for producing stuff got much lower. You needed a camera a Ler and a lee. And a flood of companies popped up. Enough that they crippled the older guard companies, and those faded. You got more M/F as costs were important to the small houses, and you also started to see more */M as companies looked for any market that could expand sales.

Tickle Abuse rose from this pack, mostly on the fact that Tommy did a bit of everything, and because of his unique skill set could build some of the best bondage equipment in the world. But French Tickling, Chek tickling, and others rose all on supplying regular levels of high quality, and huge volumes of material at good value.

All these companies mostly focus on plot-less torture video style. Most do mostly F/F two nods to the consumer base demand. But many of them do M/F and some */M based on market demand for those forms also. Almost all of the current top level companies learned that co-fetishes (feet related fetishes, orgasm play) were market extenders and proceeded to integrate those aspects into product lines. These often required male models and since the guys are about, why not use them in some M/F shoots at the same time? So that pushed the balance a bit more.

Pure M/M companies have started to arrive on the scene recently, and are starting to serve their specific market. A big part of this is that the pure homophobic aspects of the community have been slowly pushed into the minority by the demographic shift of the millennial generation becoming economic forces on the web, and also bringing their more inclusive outlook with them. In short, gay-bashing is social uncool now, and gets one ostracized. Thank whatever god you choose for that. It makes running a place like this a ton easier. I fought to make this place inclusive for most of its first decade.

The things that will drive the videos you see in the years ahead will be two fold.

1) Social Want. The majority of consumers are male, and they like F/F
2) Demographical Service. Companies will seek to serve smaller and smaller audience segments in search of sales. The number of folks who prefer M/F is not as large as F/F but its still a market to tap, and it is. You'll see folks that specialize in it.

Smaller outfits will dominate the Fetish Market. For example FM can't compete with Tickle Abuse when it comes to hitting the sweet spot on what customers want. FM does dozens of fetish markets, tickling is one side that is shot because they have the models about, and why not? But places like TA are focused on providing exactly what the tickling fan wants. The product will appeal more.

As long as the quality is there, the top level small companies can survive as long as they are not pirated to death. There will be a host of more 2nd tier companies that are one person operations that can tune into even more specific markets, and serve them. And we'll also see a lot of 'Women Inc." sorta product stemming from models that realized they can market themselves to a fetish group and make cash, which are of course limited by the woman's ability to keep a cult of followers about that keep buying their product.

The Webcam industry is starting to cut into the clip business also. Many sites offer hundreds of women, who for $20 or so will perform live for you in whatever way you like, and tickling cash be arranged when they are doing duo stuff. In the 'real porn' world, webcam sites that feature couples just having sex are on the rise. People seem to like the fact that these cams offer a personal connection to the performers, and are more 'real' in what they project. They are a direction the future will see a lot of I wager.

Always a fun topic.
Myriads (Unofficial Tickling Community Historian, though I don't mention it often)
 
Informative as always Myriads. Just a quick question: I thought french tickling came about a bit earlier than the clips era? I seem to recall them having a pay to view website before clips became a thing (specifically around when TiB began doing clips instead of videos).
 
Informative as always Myriads. Just a quick question: I thought french tickling came about a bit earlier than the clips era? I seem to recall them having a pay to view website before clips became a thing (specifically around when TiB began doing clips instead of videos).

Correct!
 
You are correct, FT was around earlier, but I didn't consider them gaining significant traction until the clip era came into play.

Myriads
 
F/f sells better than m/f ... ok... this is obvious but what is the reason of this? I do not think that they are lez fans of tickling... so does it mean that the customers are not really interested on tickle fetish or in other words they are not peopke who like to tickle or to be tickled in real life... if it was so they would prefer scenes in which they would like to be in as tickler or ticklee...
For example i m male who like to tickle females so i buy always m/f videos because i imagine like i m the tickler in the scene. If i liked to be tickled i would tend to buy f/m and if i were gay i would buy m/m ... in this context or framework of thinking f/f fans would be predominently lez women but it is not the case obviously. ..

So that it can be understood that the customers are not people Who would like to be in that dungeon neither as tickler nor as ticklee... by taking into consideration that males are more interested in such products with sexual content may be we should think that they are Heterosexual man who like to see two attractive women struggling...
 
Interesting question, hlkkln. And interesting point of view.
I could add my opinion to it.

So the theory is: you like to tickle - you watch M/F to imagine yourself in his place, you like being tickled - you watch F/M to imagine yourseld as a lee.
On the contrary, I would say F/F could be more universal for male fans of tickling (like me). Because looking at two attractive women you can actually imagine both being tickled by the female tickler and tickling the female lee. No guy is needed in the scene for you to be in that "dungeon" in your thoughts.
 
Interesting question, hlkkln. And interesting point of view.
I could add my opinion to it.

So the theory is: you like to tickle - you watch M/F to imagine yourself in his place, you like being tickled - you watch F/M to imagine yourseld as a lee.
On the contrary, I would say F/F could be more universal for male fans of tickling (like me). Because looking at two attractive women you can actually imagine both being tickled by the female tickler and tickling the female lee. No guy is needed in the scene for you to be in that "dungeon" in your thoughts.

Yours is interesting too :)
May be my imaginatory power is not adequate :)
 
An interesting range of views, and thanks for the informative disquisition Myriads! Personally, it has seemed to me that there was an increasing emphasis on F/F everywhere I look, but I'm no expert. I actually prefer M/F, but I don't think that's because it allows me to more easily imagine myself in the picture. I just like the situation itself more, in a third-person, voyeuristic way. Also, it certainly isn't because of some homophobic inclination on my part, and I'm surprised to hear that such an association ever existed. Guess I wasn't around for that phase of TMF. For me, it's more of an aesthetic preference, nothing political.
 
F/f sells better than m/f ... ok... this is obvious but what is the reason of this? I do not think that they are lez fans of tickling... so does it mean that the customers are not really interested on tickle fetish or in other words they are not peopke who like to tickle or to be tickled in real life... if it was so they would prefer scenes in which they would like to be in as tickler or ticklee...
For example i m male who like to tickle females so i buy always m/f videos because i imagine like i m the tickler in the scene. If i liked to be tickled i would tend to buy f/m and if i were gay i would buy m/m ... in this context or framework of thinking f/f fans would be predominently lez women but it is not the case obviously. ..

So that it can be understood that the customers are not people Who would like to be in that dungeon neither as tickler nor as ticklee... by taking into consideration that males are more interested in such products with sexual content may be we should think that they are Heterosexual man who like to see two attractive women struggling...

The main reason F/F is the larger preference for male viewers is that the presence of another male in the media is jarring to the specific paraphilia of the viewer and prevents it from functioning.

In English, seeing males in their porn turns them off.

Why this is so gets into complex sexual psychology, but it mostly has ties to competition in mate selection psychology (i.e. the viewer wants to be the only Dominate object in the fantasy, and an on screen male messes that up) , and in some cultures latent homosexual fears.

Myriads
 
Myriads, you are just an over flowing fountain of intelligent information recently. It's gotten me to look again at my own history coming up to this point in life and though I'm only questioning some things now, it seems like my path has taken me to where I needed to be at the time.

I've never had a problem with other guys in videos, they are just having fun like anyone else, but your explanation as to why f/f has been so popular makes sense. Being in a totally voyeuristic situation where one can't interact with the scene, it is pleasant to see two scantly clad women tickling each other. A Womens laughter is the best music in the world. I could listen to it for hours, and have. What a strange and wonderful life we have here.
 
One of the least shoking among the enlightening info given by myrad is the fact that m/f videos are less costly than f/f ... it would not be necessary to give big amount of money to persuade a man to tickle an attractive woman :)
I would be ready to do it voluntarily during tiring work hours :)
 
Even arguing that the model isn't necessarily 'working as hard' as the tickler, there's still the exposure to worry about. That aside, they have to seem into it, regardless of whether or not they are. What it comes down to, I think, is that (the majority?) of producers see hiring a male model for the role of tickler as a waste, since they can get more mileage out of a female model potentially, due to selling primarily or solely /F content.

F/F opens up the possibility for role reversal.

One could argue that while it might be more fulfilling for a fantasy to place yourself in the position of the tickler it might also be fulfilling to be that of the onlooker, or else an individual in command of the (two) women. There's a certain power there, in that position because, hypothetically, you could change their roles at any time. You might have the 'naughty' girl tickling the 'innocent' girl but then allow or create a situation where the 'naughty' girl is now being punished for whatever.

Additionally, I think there's more of a.. hm, vulnerability? in having a female ler, because I don't necessarily see the male figure as a sexual object (while I hate objectifying, it is porn, so), whereas I see the female figure as one (potentially or hypothetically). As such, to see a controlling woman that could at any time become just as vulnerable as her victim, well, that sort of heightens things or adds a small amount of tension to the clip (to me).

But then I'm just typing things I've thought about in the past. I'm in no way conveying that they're the (or even a) truth. Just interesting things to think on, mostly.
 
With the advent of the internet and immediate feedback you'd think the videos would be uniformly better. For example Tickle Abuse actively accepts input and criticism therefore his videos get better and better. Darke does too. Therefore his videos get better. Others, for example Zentickling do not so their content is stagnant and not top quality. Every company has it's own niche would like to see them all act as professionally as Darke and Tom.
 
With the advent of the internet and immediate feedback you'd think the videos would be uniformly better. For example Tickle Abuse actively accepts input and criticism therefore his videos get better and better. Darke does too. Therefore his videos get better. Others, for example Zentickling do not so their content is stagnant and not top quality. Every company has it's own niche would like to see them all act as professionally as Darke and Tom.

There's an element of feasibility and randomness to this, unfortunately. Most of the miniscule feedback I got wasn't possible for me to implement due to cost and/or logistics, and when I was finally able to do so, it made for a more expensive video that still didn't sell. I lost a bundle and didn't bother to try again.

I mean, "Top quality" is subjective, anyway. If you consider it "F/F with elaborate bondage equipment and top-notch production" then at this point only a few producers can compete, as the bar has been set too high for anyone else to even try. I consider "top quality" to be good on-screen chemistry between models, competent production values, and little else. Oddly enough, even that can be hard to come by.

If my customers had any feedback that would actually result in more sales, that I'd be able to justify putting up the money for, I'd do it in a heartbeat. As it stands, though, that hasn't happened; the people that give me positive feedback don't buy my videos, and the people that give me negative feedback don't offer anything more constructive than "it sucks". It's pretty trendy right now to simply accuse any and every model of faking it no matter howshe reacts, so simply hiring a bunch of different models in an effort to find one people like is an expensive gamble that I just can't afford to take anymore.
 
Top Quality, Passable bondage with relentless non kootchie kootchie co ticklung

When I say she fakes it, she fakes it. He can't tickle worth a crap.
 
Interesting question, hlkkln. And interesting point of view.
I could add my opinion to it.

So the theory is: you like to tickle - you watch M/F to imagine yourself in his place, you like being tickled - you watch F/M to imagine yourseld as a lee.
On the contrary, I would say F/F could be more universal for male fans of ticdifficult to ke me). Because looking at two attractive women you can actually imagine both being tickled by the female tickler and tickling the female lee. No guy is needed in the scene for you to be in that "dungeon" in your thoughts.

I reelaborated my m/f preference in lights of these words... ok you may have reason but for my part tickling is a torture so i dont like to think that the ticklee enjoys i want to see a suffering and squirming girl. Okay it is also possible in f/f videos but f/f video express from beginning that the victime is there voluntarily and let herself to be bound(very difficult to think a female bound the ticklee without her cooperation). Of course we all know that nobody has the right to kidnap anybody to tickle but i have difficulties to combine this consensualty and the suffering, so the fact that it is just a professional production based on role play is reminded...
On the other hand the m/f video are easier to make scenario of torture without thinking that it is a role play. One of the reason of my preference in hogtie is also the same that hogtie do not remind me that it is a production since it is performed by simple ropes which can be found easily
 
When I say she fakes it, she fakes it.

If you say so, chief. :hmm:

I won't deny that as a community we seem to have a certain expectation when it comes to models' reactions, among other things. It strikes me as a losing proposition for a new producer starting out, if you think about it; if you don't do what the other guys do, you won't sell. If you do do what the other guys do, you still won't sell, because they've got the experience, equipment, and established customer base.

Then you got the guys who think that they're the final word in what makes a good video spouting their opinions all over the forum. They're free to do so, of course, but it certainly doesn't result in a better product because it's unfocused and basically just equates to "cater to MEEEE", no matter how outlandish or niche their requests may be.

But the point is, with the internet there is no excuse for not taking input.

We take it, we just can't use it. So then we just get called idiots who aren't willing to bend to the whims of some really vocal poster who would just find something else to complain about if we did. I mean, there are producers out there who do actually do what the customer asks on a fairly regular basis, and yet people still come up with things that they hate about videos. It's a never-ending cycle where the existence of complaints is used as "proof" that the state of video production is terrible, because if it wasn't, there would be no complaints.
 
LOL dude. I've tickled nearly 300 women. I think I would know. Being a producer does not make you an expert. Hell you're just a GWC not a real producer. I can tell fake when I see it.
 
LOL dude. I've tickled nearly 300 women. I think I would know.

Only 300?

More to the point, unless you're Mystery and/or Wilt Chamberlain, how many of them did you pay for the privilege? You don't suppose they were... gasp... putting on a show for your cash?

Being a producer does not make you an expert.

No, but it does expose you to a lot of different people, and allow you to see all the ways people react. Much like supposedly tickling over 300 women (is this Sparta?) would.

Hell you're just a GWC not a real producer. I can tell fake when I see it.

If you've tickled so many women you'd know that they don't all react in the same cookie-cutter way that people expect models in videos to act. I'm not saying producers don't hire fakes. Some of 'em do and I've seen a lot of crap in my time, but the amount of fakery accusations that get thrown around here is pretty ridiculous. I mean, folks aren't talking about my videos when they cry fake, they're talking about the big dogs like Tickle Abuse an' what-not, because those're the only videos anyone is watching. I'd say those guys are the experts, and if THEY'RE hiring mostly fakes, then this industry is pretty much fucked.

Keep trying to insult me, though. Your rage is delicious.
 
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