The Question of Ethical Tickling

Straps&Laughter · May 23, 2020

I had a conversation recently with a fellow kinkster about the double-edged sword of a "socially acceptable" kink. They were to the impression that it was easier to indulge because most people perceive tickling as a (fun or creepy) form of flirting.

We all grapple with ethics in our own way - what is okay to do, what is okay to fantasize about but not do, what is not okay to fantasize about - and I am no arbiter of the subject.

For me, consciousness of the sexual nature of my fetish makes tickling random female friends unethical because it is obtaining arousal or sexual gratification without their knowledge or ability to willingly consent. Instead of passing a Level One physical touch threshold, they think its Level One but I know that for me its Level Three.

How does having a tickling paraphelia/fetish adjust who, when, and how you engage in tickling?

Yote · May 23, 2020

I enjoy tickling both sexually and platonically, so I can engage in it without feeling aroused. It depends on the situation. If I'm playfully tickling a friend, I probably won't feel turned on. But even if I do, I can control my sexual urges.

I usually don't make the first move and I prefer not to make any moves unless the situation is appropriate. If a friend starts tickling another one of my friends for example, I might join in. I won't engage in something like a couple tickling each other only, without being prompted by one of them.

I have my fantasies of course, though I don't really have nonconsensual ones.

Wolf · May 23, 2020

I've kept it to relationships where there was an already accepted level of playful physical contact (which are easy to develop); definitely avoided a lot of awkward situations.

jklopez · May 23, 2020

People with tickle fetishes dwell too much on whether it's "ethical" to tickle someone if they aren't aware of your fetish or the right now to tickle someone. The great thing about a tickling fetish is that it's so unknown that the vast majority of the population aren't aware of it or would even suspect you of having one unless you flatout told them. Tickling is something people do to one another all time, so just treat it as such when you tickle someone unfamiliar with your kick. I'm assuming you'd already be friends or well enough equated where it really shouldn't be awkward.

Comfort Eagle · May 23, 2020

I don't go around screaming "I HAVE A TICKLING FETISH, TICKLING GIVES ME SEXUAL AROUSAL!" but I make it quite clear I'm "into it" in that way. I've tickled platonic friends with them knowing it's my kink while still kept on the "vanilla" level, but pulling that off takes a degree of tact.

Ms Regan Black · May 23, 2020

Hi, Straps-

Very interesting question.

I wouldn't tickle a random person or even a vanilla friend *period*, unless it were discussed beforehand. Even though tickling is 'friendlier' than grabbing ass or hand on the thigh, it is still unwanted and unwarrented physical contact, regardless of the intention of the tickler.

That being said, I see where you are coming from regarding intention and appreciate the ethical question. My thoughts are that touching or performing an act on someone for one's own sexual gratification without consent of the other person is morally and ethically wrong, and in many places, it is considered assault.

To some, it may sound like I am going overboard here, but consider the other side~ being on the receiving end of 'innocent' sexual intention is not fun, and A LOT of recipients can tell the intention of the act, even if the actor does not necessarily think they can.

Thank you for bringing up this topic.

Regards
-Ms Black

Straps&Laughter · May 23, 2020

The great thing about a tickling fetish is that it's so unknown that the vast majority of the population aren't aware of it or would even suspect you of having one unless you flatout told them.

This is the position of the other person in question, but exactly why it is an ethical question. Boiled down:

If everyone viewed tickling as inherently sexual, casually tickling someone would be a much more weighty matter than it is. Does the fact that its impact on my is concealed make it less problematic?

I think for me personally, Ms Black raises the key point:

being on the receiving end of 'innocent' sexual intention is not fun

I perceive it as a more egregious violation of personal space, autonomy, and consent when I do it versus if a person without the kink were to do it in the normal course of crossing physical thresholds.

ObsessedTickles · May 23, 2020

jklopez said:
People with tickle fetishes dwell too much on whether it's "ethical" to tickle someone if they aren't aware of your fetish or the right now to tickle someone. The great thing about a tickling fetish is that it's so unknown that the vast majority of the population aren't aware of it or would even suspect you of having one unless you flatout told them. Tickling is something people do to one another all time, so just treat it as such when you tickle someone unfamiliar with your kick. I'm assuming you'd already be friends or well enough equated where it really shouldn't be awkward.

I agree with this. The world is filled with people who enjoy tickling the crap out of people even if they're not "into" it like most of us are. People like to tickle others, period because of the power and control it gives them. A lot of that dynamic is older vs. younger, i.e. the wicked uncle tickling his helpless niece to death. Happens all the time but isn't sexual. In "our" context though people get horrified. The fetish is relatively unknown, every woman I've dated/flirted with, fooled around with that I told I liked to tickle was amazed it was an actual kink some guys have.

Awkward is only when it's strangers or something random. Having done some of that too though I can't judge lol.

Wade · May 24, 2020

I dwell on this too, sometimes. I very rarely tickle other people but over the years other people (friends, coworkers, acquaintances) have sometimes tickled me -- and when they discover how ticklish I am, a percentage of those proceed to tickle me again on another occasion, and another subset proceeds to tickle me on multiple occasions. Probably at least 95% of those interactions have been entirely platonic, friendly, non-sexualized and usually not even flirtatious. Often they're people who are in monogamous relationships with someone else, as I often have been as well; there's no apparent romantic dimension to the tickling at all.

Is it problematic that they don't know that I have this complicated private relationship with tickling? When these people tickle me, I do try to escape/prevent the tickling; I do say things like "Stop it" or "Don't" -- of course all those reactions, while sincere, are reflexive; they're also the exact thing the tickler expects to see and hear from someone they're tickling, and sometimes they don't stop right away, because that's often how tickling goes in many acceptable social contexts.

Is it problematic that, when I reflect on some of these encounters later, I sometimes find the recollection perversely provocative? My instinct is to say no -- I might also, after all, fantasize on any given day about an attractive coworker because of something she said or the way she smiled or the way she crossed her arms. But this situation seems a little different insofar as it's a tactile interaction.

My conclusion has always been that it's ultimately not problematic enough for me to do anything about; it seems like the only things I could say that would dissuade the tickling would be things that would create greater social awkwardness or -- worse -- draw the other person explicitly into an uninvited intimacy.

But it is something that occurs to me sometimes.

Zeezil · May 24, 2020

Both ObsessedTickles and jklopez put it perfectly. What goes on in between your ears is no one else's business, ever. It can only become a problem when you let it out.

In fact I would talk it a step further and say that actually telling a human being whom you have absolutely no sexual relationship with, or intention of getting in with, that you "are into tickling and it's a turn on" is itself unethical.

How about a real world example: you're at a pool party minding your own business, wading in the shallow end, and a female platonic friend (not your wife or girlfriend) floats by on an inflatable raft thingy, face down, and look at that, her two gorgeous feet are inches away from your fingers. Are you playfully scribbling those soles for 3 seconds? I sure am (every time!) with zero guilt whatsoever.

SAYING something to her later because for some reason you feel guilty about it, like "I'm sorry I tickled your feet in the pool, I feel obligated to tell you that that's a sexual turn on for me" would be highly inappropriate, awkward, and I would argue, unethical, as it forces her into your sexual world for a moment. Moreover someone who did not ask to go there.

Which is why I will argue till the day I die that it's smartest to keep this to yourself, people. Let your wife or husband eventually know, or an extremely intimate partner when you get to that stage. That's it! :upsidedow

ObsessedTickles said:
I agree with this. The world is filled with people who enjoy tickling the crap out of people even if they're not "into" it like most of us are. People like to tickle others, period because of the power and control it gives them. A lot of that dynamic is older vs. younger, i.e. the wicked uncle tickling his helpless niece to death. Happens all the time but isn't sexual. In "our" context though people get horrified. The fetish is relatively unknown, every woman I've dated/flirted with, fooled around with that I told I liked to tickle was amazed it was an actual kink some guys have.

Awkward is only when it's strangers or something random. Having done some of that too though I can't judge lol.

Matheu · May 24, 2020

I can’t say I have been in a position to tickle some one playfully in a long while, but I ddon’t Think I would unless my curiosity was truly spiked. I tickle kids, but I’m a 100% playful way because there’s a detachment there. But adults is different.

Wolf · May 24, 2020

Zeezil said:
Which is why I will argue till the day I die that it's smartest to keep this to yourself, people. Let your wife or husband eventually know, or an extremely intimate partner when you get to that stage. That's it!

Why on earth would you wait until after you've married someone to tell them about your fetish?
I think there are a lot of unhappy married men on the forum who could tell you stories about that.

Straps&Laughter · May 24, 2020

To those who are saying that the question is overanalyzed, I want to make sure I understand the rationale:

Is the platform that the act is okay if the recipient doesn't realize it has an additional sexual component?

Both ObsessedTickles and jklopez put it perfectly. What goes on in between your ears is no one else's business, ever. It can only become a problem when you let it out.

The great thing about a tickling fetish is that it's so unknown that the vast majority of the population aren't aware of it or would even suspect you of having one unless you flatout told them.

Are you playfully scribbling those soles for 3 seconds? I sure am (every time!) with zero guilt whatsoever. ... SAYING something to her later because for some reason you feel guilty about it, like "I'm sorry I tickled your feet in the pool, I feel obligated to tell you that that's a sexual turn on for me" would be highly inappropriate, awkward, and I would argue, unethical, as it forces her into your sexual world for a moment.

asutickler · May 24, 2020

I kinda look it as akin to other activities that can be sexual or not based on context. Dancing is a good example of this; you can dance with your mom at a wedding, and you can dance with a hot stranger at the club. Same activity, but far from the same thing in context.

Also, all kinds of people we'd term "vanilla" have used tickling as a means of flirting, and have had tickle fights that led directly to sex. It's not necessarily 100% devoid of potential sexual implications even among vanillas.

Zeezil · May 25, 2020

Straps&Laughter said:
Is the platform that the act is okay if the recipient doesn't realize it has an additional sexual component?

To answer Straps&Laughter: yes, that is exactly the argument/platform. It is precisely okay because a quick and playful tickling of someone's foot in a pool like that does not have sexual connotations at all in our society at large, even if it does with us. Or in this example, in the tickler's mind (again: his business). In fact it's completely irrelevant what it did or did not do for the tickler. I'll flip the example: Let's say a 100% out gay man playfully grabs a girl's butt at a party, or her boob, out of the blue, without asking. In that case, though there was no sexual connotation/desire involved in the gay man's actions at all, THAT would be still be considered inappropriate and unethical (and arguably a form of sexual assault), precisely BECAUSE touching someone else's genitals is socially regarded as sexual in nature, regardless of who's doing it. A quick tickle of a foot? Nah.

Zeezil · May 25, 2020

Wolf said:
Why on earth would you wait until after you've married someone to tell them about your fetish?
I think there are a lot of unhappy married men on the forum who could tell you stories about that.

Yes Wolf, I admit this "keeping it to yourself" philosophy is a more controversial take, but it's worked really really well for me in my life. I've argued before on this forum that making some kind of "declaration of your fetish" early on in a relationship is not smart and can backfire, particularly with someone you might eventually break up with. Find someone you truly love, as an entire person. Explore each other's bodies, discover what turns each other on over time. It's can be a really fun multi-part game, actually. :lovestory

FeatherFeet · May 25, 2020

It's amazing to me how so many people with a relatively unknown kink don't realize the irony of this ethics question "is it moral to tickle someone if they don't know it's a turn on for you."

I would counter that question with another question : how many kinks are out there you have no knowledge of?

Brushing your hair is a kink. Hugging can be a kink. Spilling drinks on yourself can be a kink. There are hundreds and thousands of kinks that the mainstream has no idea about.

What about everyone with a foot fetish, should they look away at the beach because it's like they are flashing you?

In any given day you could have done 20 or 30 things that elated someone else's kink without you knowing about it at all. The world is filled with variety. Is this a violation of your privacy? Maybe, but I would argue no--not if it is everyday things that would be common anyway. Which is why tickling someone, as long as it's with someone you would be goofing around with anyway, like a friend, etc, is not a violation of anything unless the person doesn't want it--in which case that's a different story. But whether or not you like it or LIKE it shouldn't really make any difference at all.

And yeah, imagine a world where everyone was going up to everyone "uh, sexual trigger, you are brushing your hair...that turns me on. just so you know that when you do it..." "uh sexual trigger warning...hugging turns me on..." walking down a beach in a shirt "bare feet turn me on..." etc etc.

The sexually repressed mindsets here, in a kink forum sometimes shock me. Humans are sexual beings. There is nothing wrong with that and if you happen to have a kink that is a mainstream thing, GOOD, embrace it. If you think vanilla people don't have things happen in their day to day that turn them on which they go fantacize about later, you are a bit naive. This is not a problem unique to our kink.

Zeezil · May 25, 2020

This times a hundred

FeatherFeet said:
It's amazing to me how so many people with a relatively unknown kink don't realize the irony of this ethics question "is it moral to tickle someone if they don't know it's a turn on for you."

I would counter that question with another question : how many kinks are out there you have no knowledge of?

Brushing your hair is a kink. Hugging can be a kink. Spilling drinks on yourself can be a kink. There are hundreds and thousands of kinks that the mainstream has no idea about.

What about everyone with a foot fetish, should they look away at the beach because it's like they are flashing you?

In any given day you could have done 20 or 30 things that elated someone else's kink without you knowing about it at all. The world is filled with variety. Is this a violation of your privacy? Maybe, but I would argue no--not if it is everyday things that would be common anyway. Which is why tickling someone, as long as it's with someone you would be goofing around with anyway, like a friend, etc, is not a violation of anything unless the person doesn't want it--in which case that's a different story. But whether or not you like it or LIKE it shouldn't really make any difference at all.

And yeah, imagine a world where everyone was going up to everyone "uh, sexual trigger, you are brushing your hair...that turns me on. just so you know that when you do it..." "uh sexual trigger warning...hugging turns me on..." walking down a beach in a shirt "bare feet turn me on..." etc etc.

The sexually repressed mindsets here, in a kink forum sometimes shock me. Humans are sexual beings. There is nothing wrong with that and if you happen to have a kink that is a mainstream thing, GOOD, embrace it. If you think vanilla people don't have things happen in their day to day that turn them on which they go fantacize about later, you are a bit naive. This is not a problem unique to our kink.

HeadlessRooster · May 25, 2020

FeatherFeet said:
It's amazing to me how so many people with a relatively unknown kink don't realize the irony of this ethics question "is it moral to tickle someone if they don't know it's a turn on for you."

I would counter that question with another question : how many kinks are out there you have no knowledge of?

Brushing your hair is a kink. Hugging can be a kink. Spilling drinks on yourself can be a kink. There are hundreds and thousands of kinks that the mainstream has no idea about.

What about everyone with a foot fetish, should they look away at the beach because it's like they are flashing you?

In any given day you could have done 20 or 30 things that elated someone else's kink without you knowing about it at all. The world is filled with variety. Is this a violation of your privacy? Maybe, but I would argue no--not if it is everyday things that would be common anyway. Which is why tickling someone, as long as it's with someone you would be goofing around with anyway, like a friend, etc, is not a violation of anything unless the person doesn't want it--in which case that's a different story. But whether or not you like it or LIKE it shouldn't really make any difference at all.

And yeah, imagine a world where everyone was going up to everyone "uh, sexual trigger, you are brushing your hair...that turns me on. just so you know that when you do it..." "uh sexual trigger warning...hugging turns me on..." walking down a beach in a shirt "bare feet turn me on..." etc etc.

The sexually repressed mindsets here, in a kink forum sometimes shock me. Humans are sexual beings. There is nothing wrong with that and if you happen to have a kink that is a mainstream thing, GOOD, embrace it. If you think vanilla people don't have things happen in their day to day that turn them on which they go fantacize about later, you are a bit naive. This is not a problem unique to our kink.

Everyone basically answered the hell out of this with the same general answer over and over again. At this point we're just beating a dead horse. But the above quote from FeatherFeet basically sums the whole argument up extremely well. Never really understood the whole "is it unethical to tickle someone because it turns me on and they don't know it" argument.

I mean, where does it end? Should we start confronting random people every time they do something that turns us on? If I see a beautiful girl out in public and I get aroused from being attracted to her, am I ethically required to go over to her and let her know that I am aroused by her appearance?

I figure as long as you're not tickling totally random strangers without their permission, then it's not a big deal. Friends, family? Fine. Strangers? Gets a little weird in my mind. I mean, imagine you dont have a tickle fetish and you're out in a store and someone you don't know comes up behind you and starts tickling your sides without your permission? Very creepy. Other than that, tickling between acquaintances, friends, family, etc. is fine as long as it doesn't become too sexual without mutual consent.

TklSuccubus · May 25, 2020

Honestly, no one should be touching anyone in anyway without consent regardless of either person's fetish.

GirlMeetsTickle · May 26, 2020

Seeking sexual gratification by tickling an unsuspecting person is unethical in my view, yes. It’s essentially a ‘copped feel’ hiding in plain sight.

Zeezil · May 26, 2020

TklSuccubus said:
Honestly, no one should be touching anyone in anyway without consent regardless of either person's fetish.

You're not a hugger, I gather? Seriously though, you will lead an extremely boring life if you actually believe this. Not saying everyone has to act like Joe Biden, but c'mon.

GirlMeetsTickle said:
Seeking sexual gratification by tickling an unsuspecting person is unethical in my view, yes. It’s essentially a ‘copped feel’ hiding in plain sight.

I think you've missed the point of the consensus here, GMT. No one is advocating "seeking sexual gratification" by going around and looking to go tickle unsuspecting people. That would be, like predatory behavior. We're talking about a playful poke or tickle of someone you're already interacting with in your life, which there is absolutely nothing wrong with. Both FeatherFeet and Thinblueline put it perfectly.

:beathorse:

GirlMeetsTickle · May 26, 2020

Zeezil said:
You're not a hugger, I gather? Seriously though, you will lead an extremely boring life if you actually believe this. Not saying everyone has to act like Joe Biden, but c'mon.

I think you've missed the point of the consensus here, GMT. No one is advocating "seeking sexual gratification" by going around and looking to go tickle unsuspecting people. That would be, like predatory behavior. We're talking about a playful poke or tickle of someone you're already interacting with in your life, which there is absolutely nothing wrong with. Both FeatherFeet and Thinblueline put it perfectly.

No, I don’t think I missed anything. I wasn’t talking about seeking unsuspecting people to tickle. I meant what I said..the person is seeking sexual gratification by tickling an unsuspecting person. And that can include a friend. If what appears to be a “playful poke” was actually the tickler intending to sexually gratify themselves...that can’t honestly be deemed a “playful poke” imo, and that’s what I meant by a “copped feel hiding in plain sight”. I don’t doubt you all are being sincere, though. I believe you’re experiencing no internal conflict with your principles.

Wolf · May 26, 2020

Zeezil said:
Yes Wolf, I admit this "keeping it to yourself" philosophy is a more controversial take, but it's worked really really well for me in my life. I've argued before on this forum that making some kind of "declaration of your fetish" early on in a relationship is not smart and can backfire, particularly with someone you might eventually break up with. Find someone you truly love, as an entire person. Explore each other's bodies, discover what turns each other on over time. It's can be a really fun multi-part game, actually.

I think there are a lot of unhappy people in relationships here that would argue that point.
Me, I've always followed the credo of, "How can you expect to get what you want if you never ask for it?"

Myriads · May 26, 2020

In any given day you could have done 20 or 30 things that elated someone else's kink without you knowing about it at all. The world is filled with variety. Is this a violation of your privacy? Maybe, but I would argue no--not if it is everyday things that would be common anyway. Which is why tickling someone, as long as it's with someone you would be goofing around with anyway, like a friend, etc, is not a violation of anything unless the person doesn't want it--in which case that's a different story. But whether or not you like it or LIKE it shouldn't really make any difference at all.

The problem with this is intent.

It's one thing to do something with no knowledge it's a turn on for someone, and quite another to do it purposefully should you have that knowledge. With no knowledge it's an accidental thrill for someone, With knowledge it's being a provocateur, tease or such.

The same with the 'ethical' tickling question, only the subject of the thrill is yourself, and your 'lee' is unknowing unless you inform them.

So you get the base question: Is it ethical to get a sexual thrill from a person whom has no knowledge you are using them thusly?

People always seem to to take tickling and put it into a special box because it has a special position in social touch dynamics that crosses a few areas. Let's look at another example.

You just love running your hands through a woman's thick hair. The longer it is the better. It turns you the hell on like nothing else. One day at a office party you find yourself standing next to your co-workers wife, you all know each other, and gods! Her hair is down to her waist and is so thick, how did you never notice before? Is it cool to reach out and run your hands through it? She doesn't know it turns you on, so it must be fine right? Or how about that woman on the bus next to you, you could just say it looked so soft you wanted to see if it was. And so on...

The real issue here is your INTENT. It's what the morality of the question swings about. Not the roll of trickling in society. Not how the other person may or may not react. It's about what YOU want and want to do to get it. And is it moral to pursue that.

Usually when we want things from other people we do the courtesy of telling them we do and why.

This case is a sexual want. It probably is not appropriate to pull that out of your pack with most people outside of a select few.

And it comes down to how you view transactional issues morally. How much information does your transaction partner get? What can you take from them unknowingly and still be in the good?

Everyone comes up with a different answer. None are exactly more right or wrong, as they all come from different moral frameworks and can't really be compared that way. They can only be compared against a cultural norm.

And our culture has had a few different rules for this sort of thing over the past decades. In some it would be cool to do, in others not so much.

Myriads

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