Can Someone Please Give Me Advice on This?

[DebonairDavid]

I've had this thought that's been bugging me incessantly for the last few days, and now I need help getting it out of my system. I'm not going to air my dirty laundry, but this involves the mistakes I've made with women, especially this one former coworker I got out of a bad, non-dating relationship with a few months ago. Although I've been told I'm very well-meaning, I also have a bad history of inadvertently offending women, which eventually leads to the relationship ending down the road. This is why I've consistently struggled to finally have a girlfriend after so many years. The thing is I don't want to offend them, but because of how many things were working against me growing up, I've subconsciously learned many bad behaviors and its taken me years to unlearn them (something I'm still doing now). My coworker thankfully doesn't have any bigotry towards the disabled, but her admitting not being very knowledgeable about Autism really shows (I'm not condemning her for it, but its still a problem regardless). Yes, I'm aware my behavior towards her was inappropriate, but being that I've had to learn how to have appropriate behaviors on my own, I'm not necessarily the bad guy in all of this. Although I didn't want to portray myself as desperate, my manager and his boss both felt I was coming off that way when I told them I learned from my mistakes, I worked on myself, and that I'm hoping those two things will lead to her and I finally burying the hatchet. Because of that conversation, I still haven't heard anything about this situation finally being put to rest. This is now starting to piss me off because I'm tired of being viewed as "once a piece of shit, always a piece of shit" in her eyes, considering the many wonderful I've done things for her, I have qualities she's legitimately appreciated, and she knows I'm always working on myself because I want to be a better person (which was going on even when her and I were still on good terms). How can I finally get her to let go of this grudge, and see me as a work in progress, without being harassing or overstepping her boundaries?

 

[Cosmo_ac]

It's difficult to comment without knowing all the details, but I will give three pieces of advice.

1. Sometimes people just aren't going to like you, and you need to learn to deal with that. This was a hard one for me. I usually get on very well with people, but their was this one guy I got assigned to work with, and for some reason, he just did not like me. I can't think of what i specifically did, or perhaps I was just the target of his irritation about being placed to work in the area, but for some reason he wanted nothing to do with me. I even tried to clear the air and try and figure out with him what I did wrong so I could apologize, and he basically cut me off before I even got started and told me to shove off. After that, I just gave him his space and focused on my own work. He eventually left and I learned he had some emotional/mental issues, but it was still a good lesson for me.

2. Don't tell, show. You say you're working on yourself and your behavior and that's great. I wish you the best with that. The thing is, you can tell somebody you've changed a million times, but it's the actions that are important. Don't tell people, show people by behaving this way. Talk is cheap. Actions are what people look for.


3. There's a point where you have to accept you don't have any more control of the situation. You made a mistake and you've likely expressed that you know this, and said that you're sorry to the woman in question. Aside from doing this, and changing your behaviour, that's about all you can do. As frustrating as it might be, you can't force people to forgive you, and look at you how you want them to. You have to leave them alone, and just let them sort things out on their own. Badgering somebody about this will not help you at all. Leaving them be and letting them figure things out on their own will.

 

[DebonairDavid]

It's difficult to comment without knowing all the details, but I will give three pieces of advice.

1. Sometimes people just aren't going to like you, and you need to learn to deal with that. This was a hard one for me. I usually get on very well with people, but their was this one guy I got assigned to work with, and for some reason, he just did not like me. I can't think of what i specifically did, or perhaps I was just the target of his irritation about being placed to work in the area, but for some reason he wanted nothing to do with me. I even tried to clear the air and try and figure out with him what I did wrong so I could apologize, and he basically cut me off before I even got started and told me to shove off. After that, I just gave him his space and focused on my own work. He eventually left and I learned he had some emotional/mental issues, but it was still a good lesson for me.

2. Don't tell, show. You say you're working on yourself and your behavior and that's great. I wish you the best with that. The thing is, you can tell somebody you've changed a million times, but it's the actions that are important. Don't tell people, show people by behaving this way. Talk is cheap. Actions are what people look for.


3. There's a point where you have to accept you don't have any more control of the situation. You made a mistake and you've likely expressed that you know this, and said that you're sorry to the woman in question. Aside from doing this, and changing your behaviour, that's about all you can do. As frustrating as it might be, you can't force people to forgive you, and look at you how you want them to. You have to leave them alone, and just let them sort things out on their own. Badgering somebody about this will not help you at all. Leaving them be and letting them figure things out on their own will.

Because I chose to leave the details out, I should make it clear that she did like me at first (but not in a romantic way because she was engaged then), and when I helped her and her children through their grief over her fiance/children's father a few months after working there (because my grandpa died when my dad and aunt were kids), that was a defining moment for our relationship. She also deeply appreciated me becoming somewhat of a father-figure to her children, and even went as far to say that they like me back. While I later admitted having a crush on her, and she did find me attractive (she jokingly called me Rico Suave once), I told her I was seeking out other women (still doing that now) because she was dealing with a lot at the time (the grief was just one of those things). She said that was fine with that because she takes pride in being an independent woman anyway. After I made other mistakes with her, I did show her I changed by making more of an effort to be mindful of what effect my words or actions can have. Because I was dealing with the process of moving and other issues last year, I periodically had minor mental breakdowns, and that created a psychological downward spiral for me. Maybe if I had been open about that with her, she would've been willing to look past the problems we had then. I never planned to badger her about this because, as I said originally, I'm not going to harass her or overstep her boundaries, mainly because I don't want that leading me to be put into handcuffs. Thankfully because I still have a good relationship with my manager, and he always set me back on course whenever I've done something wrong, he might be able to get through to her and to where she'll realize her grudge is ironically making the problem worse.

 

[TMF Jeff]

My advice is to let go of this idea that she has a grudge she needs to get over.

You had some kind of encounter that made her dislike you to some degree... that's not a grudge, it's her not liking you. Which she's free to do. She may not have any interest in that ever changing, and that's her decision, which you have no role in.

I would make the relationship amiable and professional, and completely forget about whether or not she likes you. Because for one thing, it's not something you can control, and for another thing it's actually none of your business and trying to make it your business can only make things worse. Any move you make at this point, is guaranteed to make things worse not better, because she doesn't like you. Whether it's justified or not is completely irrelevant because it's a feeling not a logical choice.

Also, your manager's job is not to "get through to her." His job, in terms of the personal relationships of his employees, is to keep you from making her feel uncomfortable. Because unless you left something out here, she's not actually doing anything except having a feeling about you. You're the one doing things, and that's the part that's a manager's business.

Let it go, no matter how hard it might be - forget about being her friend and concentrate on being good at your job. That's literally the only right move here.

 

[DebonairDavid]

My advice is to let go of this idea that she has a grudge she needs to get over.

You had some kind of encounter that made her dislike you to some degree... that's not a grudge, it's her not liking you. Which she's free to do. She may not have any interest in that ever changing, and that's her decision, which you have no role in.

I would make the relationship amiable and professional, and completely forget about whether or not she likes you. Because for one thing, it's not something you can control, and for another thing it's actually none of your business and trying to make it your business can only make things worse. Any move you make at this point, is guaranteed to make things worse not better, because she doesn't like you. Whether it's justified or not is completely irrelevant because it's a feeling not a logical choice.

Also, your manager's job is not to "get through to her." His job, in terms of the personal relationships of his employees, is to keep you from making her feel uncomfortable. Because unless you left something out here, she's not actually doing anything except having a feeling about you. You're the one doing things, and that's the part that's a manager's business.

Let it go, no matter how hard it might be - forget about being her friend and concentrate on being good at your job. That's literally the only right move here.

Good point. I'll let it go then.

 

[4Pawz]

I’m going to echo what Jeff said. We can only work on things within our control, and another person isn’t one of them. That can be difficult to accept.

Another person’s opinion of us is none of our business. Their thoughts matter, their opinions matter, their emotions and wellbeing matters, but their opinion of us isn’t something to focus on; as Jeff said, it’s out of our control. Working towards this can feel rather liberating eventually

It sounds like you are working on yourself. I encourage you to continue this work. Preferably with a clinician who is familiar with the struggles.

The moment your thoughts involve “I have to make them” is the moment you call yourself out and refocus. Relationships are hard. Keep doing the work

 

[DebonairDavid]

It sounds like you are working on yourself. I encourage you to continue this work. Preferably with a clinician who is familiar with the struggles.

I'm in the process of seeing a therapist relatively soon so I can undo the emotional damage I was given growing up

The moment your thoughts involve “I have to make them” is the moment you call yourself out and refocus. Relationships are hard. Keep doing the work

That's why I said I never was going to harass her or overstep her boundaries

 

[DebonairDavid]

After thinking about it, I come to realize the guilt of this whole situation with her has not allowed me to truly practice self-love again, so the more I engage in that, the faster I can finally get over her. Thankfully, one of the reasons I joined this site is to meet other women. Also, because one of my other coworkers was born on St. Patrick's Day, and her son was born the day afterward, I've been meaning to make drawings of them as birthday presents, so I'm going to work on that later today.

 

[DebonairDavid]

Speaking as an off-the-charts autistic myself (RAADS-R score of 187), and this is just from my own experience, work is for work interactions ONLY. There is no place in the workplace for any type of personal, non-work interactions whatsoever. Yes, we all see people who have horrible boundary issues that mix personal lives with business lives, but I've never once seen that turn out well. Your friend can only see what she allows herself to see, and absolutely nothing you do will change that. In fact, if she has taken the stance that you or being offensive or harassing, anything you do to try to help the situation is likely going to make it worse.

It's not the answer you were looking for, I'm certain, but you can avoid situations like this in the future by simply refusing to engage with work people on any level except strictly professional. I've lost count of how many times I've had to point-blank tell the production manager, the CEO, and the COO "Stop talking" because it was something that had nothing to do with my direct job or even the business in general.

You will save yourself a lot of disappointment, misunderstanding, and general "heartache" by doing your job at work and nothing else. I know, it's not what you wanted to hear and I'm sorry to be the one giving you the bad news. In a world full of people who can not understand any type of person who thinks and processes differently than "normal", you/we are better off to give humans the bare minimum and go about our days.

I've gone so far as to carry this into all aspects of life. Humans are simply not worth my effort when they do not make any effort to understand something different. Whether that is a point of view, a culture, or least of all me, a creature that is so narrowly focused is of no use to me.

Its good I've started taking advantage of the gig economy explosion in recent years. I've tried holding down day jobs in the past, but they all ended up not working out for me. Part of the problem was my behavior problems at the time (and not just having inappropriate relationships with coworkers), but the other part was getting stuck with tasks I ended up not liking or sucked at (both of which ate up a lot of my time). Now that I'm finally away from the toxic environment of living with my parents, I've slowly started to recover from almost 30 years of psychological damage, which means I can get to a point where my behavior problems will be far less noticeable (I'm hoping that I'll make a serious improvement by the end of the year). As far as what you said about work is work interactions only, there are exceptions where two coworkers end up dating and they know how to make it work, mainly because they know there's a time and place for everything, and they know when and how to separate their working relationship from their romantic relationship. However, because I'll always struggle with social skills, I've taken your advice about keeping everything professional if I were to go back to working day jobs again.

 

[DebonairDavid]

I should mention me working on myself now has always been for my sake and never for hers. As much as I'd ideally want her to finally put everything behind us, I can't force her to do that, and, as we've established, trying to will only make things worse for both of us. That being said, I'd like to think as I've made great strides in self-improvement, she'll indirectly become aware of that through some of the staff or regulars, which will cause to slowly and subconsciously see me in a positive light again, and eventually choose to meet me halfway by accepting me as a different person. However, there's no guarantee she'll do that, so like Jeff said, the only thing is to focus on myself and not her. With or without her, I'm still going to make myself become a better man.

I should also mention, on the night of my last argument with her, I had indirectly told her about my tickle fetish by having her read my post from the Personals forum before I uploaded it because I wanted her thoughts from a woman's perspective. Interestingly enough, she had no problem with it, mainly because I made it clear in it that I'd make a woman's safety, comfort, and consent my top priorities. Although she never said she was interested in participating in it, I'm sure if I was still on good terms with her, she wouldn't be against it if she had the time to do so. I did lightly tickle her armpit once (which was months before we ended our relationship) and she never confronted me about it, so I do know she's ticklish. If something happens to where she finally decides to put everything behind us, I'd love to be in a situation where she has me over for a tickling session, but thankfully there's plenty of other women on here who I can have sessions with in case she continues to hate me for the rest of her life.

 

[williams667]

I have an autistic son and while I appreciate you shouldn’t use this as an excuse I feel there does need to be more tolerance around it. My son also struggles with saying exactly what he thinks and it has led to being sacked from jobs. The general rule of thumb with autism is your mental age is roughly two thirds of your actual age. So despite my son being 18 he has the mental age of 12 which starts to explain some of his behaviours. It is difficult and can be embarrassing at times but I wouldn’t change it for the world. I admire your tenacity in trying to change behaviours and I can’t begin to imagine how difficult that can be. I am always here to listen if you want to talk about anything.

 

[DebonairDavid]

I have an autistic son and while I appreciate you shouldn’t use this as an excuse I feel there does need to be more tolerance around it. My son also struggles with saying exactly what he thinks and it has led to being sacked from jobs. The general rule of thumb with autism is your mental age is roughly two thirds of your actual age. So despite my son being 18 he has the mental age of 12 which starts to explain some of his behaviours. It is difficult and can be embarrassing at times but I wouldn’t change it for the world. I admire your tenacity in trying to change behaviours and I can’t begin to imagine how difficult that can be. I am always here to listen if you want to talk about anything.

THANK YOU!! It means a LOT to know there's someone who understands my situation and isn't quick to judge my behavior problems because of it. I'm just hoping this situation has led to her slowly learning more about Autism and how it affects me, and then realizing she was not as patient as she should've been. That doesn't mean I was innocent either, but it would give her a new perspective on everything.

On a side note, you saying your son struggles with saying exactly what he thinks reminds me of this one regular at the bar who loves how I'm very straight-foward, and jokes about me being politically incorrect. I thank George Carlin for teaching me how to be that.

 

[williams667]

THANK YOU!! It means a LOT to know there's someone who understands my situation and isn't quick to judge my behavior problems because of it. I'm just hoping this situation has led to her slowly learning more about Autism and how it affects me, and then realizing she was not as patient as she should've been. That doesn't mean I was innocent either, but it would give her a new perspective on everything.

Yeah exactly! It is such a shame that so many people don’t understand, but autism is also so different from person to person which doesn’t make it easy to understand them. It’s a brave thing you’ve done posting about it in an open forum and I do hope she reads up a little and can talk to you about it.

 

[DebonairDavid]

Yeah exactly! It is such a shame that so many people don’t understand, but autism is also so different from person to person which doesn’t make it easy to understand them. It’s a brave thing you’ve done posting about it in an open forum and I do hope she reads up a little and can talk to you about it.

I don't know if she ever will talk to me again, given the circumstances of the fallout we had, but all I can do is hope

 

[williams667]

I don't know if she ever will talk to me again, given the circumstances of the fallout we had, but all I can do is hope

It is so difficult because you are judged as a normal person. I have been judged in the past as a bad parent because of outbursts but they don’t understand and it does seem especially bad if a person has autism but no learning difficulties. The nhs over here is clueless about it and is only geared to helping people with learning difficulties.

 

[DebonairDavid]

It is so difficult because you are judged as a normal person. I have been judged in the past as a bad parent because of outbursts but they don’t understand and it does seem especially bad if a person has autism but no learning difficulties. The nhs over here is clueless about it and is only geared to helping people with learning difficulties.

I'm sorry people judge you over your son's behavior problems when it isn't something you can completely control. It isn't surprising that parents of disabled children get that far more than parents who have "normal" but bratty children.

 

[BlasterMaster]

It's good that your learning to unlearn past bad behaviors though. Don't discount your progress, instead recognize your growth and keep it up! You'll find that special someone one day!

 

[DebonairDavid]

It's good that your learning to unlearn past bad behaviors though. Don't discount your progress, instead recognize your growth and keep it up! You'll find that special someone one day!

Hopefully it will be someone on here