Draft Dodging Bush

[BigJim]

No question Madison, Jefferson, & Washington were slave owners, or that Jefferson was involved in extramarital affairs with one of his slaves, Sally Hemmings. But clearly this doesn't apply to Sam Adams, John Adams, Thomas Payne (a Brit) or other founding fathers. And I'm not sure how well a light wouldn't shine favorably on Britain's involvement in the slave trade in the 17th or 18th century, not mentioning the extensive colonization in Africa and Asia. Regarding Franklin's body snatching, I'm sure you have more than conjecture, but nothing you will provide will make me pook more than seeing Andrew Jackson on our $20 given that his was responsible for the Trail of Tears in which more than 1/3 or peaceful Cherokee died in route to Oklahoma reservations so white men could have their land. How he ever got on the $20 I will never know.

Rook

Blackrook, don't get me wrong. I'm not off on a "America is crap, Britain is good!" thing. As far as I'm concerned both of our contries are run by a bunch of crooks with an appauling human rights record. I don't seek to demonise you guys to make Britain look good. Britain ain't no angel.

There are quite a few things about America and it's legal aspects that I would bet none of you guys know. I'm coming across some staggering information that you would either disbelieve utterly because it threatens your belief system too much, or would make you angrier than a cut rattlesnake. I'm not going to post it now, because my research is incomplete in this area, but you would be horrified to learn just how "free" the USA is.

 

[BigJim]

Re: Yeah there is something wrong with draft dodging if...

the war you are dodging has legitimacy. Someone who didn't comply with Hitler's conscription to kill Jews has no moral issues. If you dodge the draft because you are afraid of dying and there is no other immorality from the underlying war (the side you are fighting on), then you are pretty much a coward. And a coward is a coward.

I happen to agree with the base of that statement. I would like to add one point though. Hitler didn't just turn up out of nowhere and mesmerize the German nation into slaughtering three quarters of Europe. He was created by a mind-set. People who before would'nt have had the slightest hesitation in thinking him a madman were caught up in a wave of created mass-hysteria.

The biggest war of all time, can't be won with guns. It can't be won with hatred. It can't even be won with righteous paladin's fury. It can only be won by healing the wounds on the collective humn psyche and uniting people from mind to mind. Until people across the world live by three simple rules; to not be afraid to excercise their individuality, to not force their opinion on anyone else against the will and to allow everyone the right to be as individual as they would expect, there will never be peace.

If every normal person in the world started living by those three rules then the petty power brokers who would play chess with human lives would be powerless. That is all that is needed to transform the planet from the fractured, poisoned hell it is, into a paradise. Just those three things! But I feel that we are a long way away from that right now.

 

[BellaRisa]

What if there was a war and nobody came?

the war you are dodging has legitimacy. Someone who didn't comply with Hitler's conscription to kill Jews has no moral issues. If you dodge the draft because you are afraid of dying and there is no other immorality from the underlying war (the side you are fighting on), then you are pretty much a coward. And a coward is a coward.

At the risk of sounding *incredibly* corny...I wonder what would happen if all the soldiers on both sides turned 'coward', and those who ordered them to fight had no choice but to come up with a non-violent way to resolve the issues?

Someone once said that the instead of war, the leaders of each involved country should enter a boxing ring, armed with a sweatsock full of poop. Last one standing wins. Silly? Yup, but it makes as much sense as sending our babies off to die, in my opinion...

Bella

 

[BigJim]

Re: What if there was a war and nobody came?

At the risk of sounding *incredibly* corny...I wonder what would happen if all the soldiers on both sides turned 'coward', and those who ordered them to fight had no choice but to come up with a non-violent way to resolve the issues?

Someone once said that the instead of war, the leaders of each involved country should enter a boxing ring, armed with a sweatsock full of poop. Last one standing wins. Silly? Yup, but it makes as much sense as sending our babies off to die, in my opinion...

Bella

Reading a post like that makes my bloody heart cry out! That is just the point! It reminds me of that song called "Universal Soldier" by Buffy St.Marie. Just imagine what the results would be if everyone took back control of their lives from the gits who manipulate them.

Bin Laden: Brother Abdul and Brother Mohammed. I have choosen you for the glorious mission of hijacking planes and flying them into satanic American buildings. Praise be to God, for your deaths shall be glorious indeed.

Abdul: Eh? I'm not doing that. I was talking to one of those christian guys the other day and he seemed like a nice bloke. Why should I?

Mohammed: Yeah, and I've got a wife and three kids. Why should I sacrifice myself for you, so you can build a kingdom of terror over people who've never done us harm?

Mohammed and Abdul: We think we'll just go home.

Bin Laden: Bugger!




General P.T. Arseinghouse III United States Army: Okay boys, I want you to charge across that field and blow the shit out of anyone you see opposing us. Doesn't matter what they look like, if that bloke in the peaked cap with the silver bars on his shoulder tells you too, I want you to gun the bastards down.

Pte G. Pile United States Army: Why? We're not in the country the terrorists came from and those people over there are scared shitless of us. Why should I give away all my will to you and shoot anyone I'm ordered to without thinking and deciding if it's the right thing to do. I think I'll just go home.

General P.T. Arseinghouse III Untied States Army: Bugger.

It may sound corny and unworkable to you Bella, but just imagine if everyone took responsibility for their own actions on both sides. All of a sudden the only pieces on the chess board would be the two kings. SHOCK HORROR!!!! We might even find the representatives of all cultures and nations actually having to talk to each other instead of sending poor ignorant schmoes into the meat grinder.

War is a game, and if all the pawns decided they didn't like it, had a mind of their own and decided not to play, THERE IS NO GAME!

 

[BigJim]

Try putting these words to the tune of the Star Spangled Banner.

Oh say can you see,
By the one light in all,
Our Earth to embrace,
At the call of all nations.

Where our children can play,
In a world without war,
Where we stand hand in hand,
In the grace of creation.

Where the rivers run clean,
Through the valleys pristine,
Where the cities stand tall,
In the clear skys of freedom.

Oh say do our hearts sing out,
For harmony and love forever,
On the planet of our birth,
Blessed with peace on Earth.


That might seem like a pipe dream to many, but it is our damn destiny to create a world like that! It is nothing less than we deserve and after all the mistreatment she's had, it's nothing less than the world deserves either. Something like that isn't impossible. It's a collective change of mind away. It may seem unbelieveable that such a change of mind could ever occur, but it can. It all it takes is enough people to make a start and others will follow.

 

[General Zod]

My opinions

The following is just my opinion,nothing more It's not meant to start any flame wars How do you stop war? How do you take away all the weapons associated with war? What is one country supposed to do when another one invades it? Lets face it folks,not everyone on earth will ever get along Would I love to see that happen? HELL YES will it happen? Not likely
As long as you have people who crave power you will have war,poverty,bad working conditions etc etc I sure don't see a world wide revolution coming aong where humanity forcefully removes all the leaders currently in power,and then destroying all weapons of war
As far as someone serving in the milatary to be president here in the U.S.I'm all for it I don't see how a draft dodger of any type should be allwoed to have the title "Commander In Chief" I was in the Air Force when Clinton got elected You think he got any respect from the majority of those in uniform? NO Personnaly I don't think he was that great of a president Remember NAFTA? How was that good for the U.S.? Or the f**kup in Somolia? Someone please tell me why those rangers had to die Our involment over there didn't make any difference in the long run When the elder Bush was president those warlords behaved themselves
Again my opinions aren't meant to flame anyone I normally don't respond to political or even religious threads,but I just couldn't help myself
General Zod

 

[BigJim]

Re: My opinions

The following is just my opinion,nothing more It's not meant to start any flame wars How do you stop war? How do you take away all the weapons associated with war? What is one country supposed to do when another one invades it? Lets face it folks,not everyone on earth will ever get along Would I love to see that happen? HELL YES will it happen? Not likely
As long as you have people who crave power you will have war,poverty,bad working conditions etc etc I sure don't see a world wide revolution coming aong where humanity forcefully removes all the leaders currently in power,and then destroying all weapons of war

Who said anything about using force of any kind? The problem with force/violence/bombs etc is that when you use them to defend against or retaliate against anything, you just end up with twice the violence. Sickening theough it may be to admit to, blowing the shit out of Baghdad won't do shit for securing our people against terror. It'll only be an incentive to more. And I also included people of all nations in that. If enough people started thinking with their soul instead of their sacral reflex, there would be an astonishing lack of violence in the world.

 

[amk714]

Re: Yeah there is something wrong with draft dodging if...

the war you are dodging has legitimacy. Someone who didn't comply with Hitler's conscription to kill Jews has no moral issues. If you dodge the draft because you are afraid of dying and there is no other immorality from the underlying war (the side you are fighting on), then you are pretty much a coward. And a coward is a coward.

I agree, Blackrook. In my first post on the first page of this thread, I said I think draft dodging is not wrong if the war it applies to is not right, like the Vietnam War. I forgot to put that in my second post, sorry for the misunderstanding. I would have gladly fought in WWII and Korea (but NOT Vietnam!) if I had been around then.

 

[guitman69]

Re: Re: What if there was a war and nobody came?

War is a game, and if all the pawns decided they didn't like it, had a mind of their own and decided not to play, THERE IS NO GAME!

The problem is, our war-like culture has the masses brainwashed that war is a noble, even romantic thing.

I am no coward. I am not afraid to die. But I will not kill someone just because my leader is agry at his leader.


When I was turning 18 and graduating from high school, I had a lot of recruiters calling me and trying to get me to sign up. I would usually politely tell them that I'm not interested and hang up. But one day I was in a bad mood and told this guy that I'm not interested in being someone's pawn.

He got very upset and hung up on me.

 

[BigJim]

Re: Re: Re: What if there was a war and nobody came?

The problem is, our war-like culture has the masses brainwashed that war is a noble, even romantic thing.

I am no coward. I am not afraid to die. But I will not kill someone just because my leader is agry at his leader.


When I was turning 18 and graduating from high school, I had a lot of recruiters calling me and trying to get me to sign up. I would usually politely tell them that I'm not interested and hang up. But one day I was in a bad mood and told this guy that I'm not interested in being someone's pawn.

He got very upset and hung up on me.

Very true, participating in a war does grant people a somewhat noble staus. Unless of course it was Vietnam and they were greeted at the airport by shouts of "BABY KILLER".

Just remember though Guitman, it doesn't take enlisting in the military to be a brainwashed pawn. There are people in civvy street who are exactly that and there are people in the military who aren't. Never shut your eyes and ears to people trying to scam you.

 

[guitman69]

Re: Re: Re: Re: What if there was a war and nobody came?

Just remember though Guitman, it doesn't take enlisting in the military to be a brainwashed pawn. There are people in civvy street who are exactly that and there are people in the military who aren't. Never shut your eyes and ears to people trying to scam you.

I agree, the point I was trying to make was that we are brainwashed long before the recruiters start calling you up.

 

[BigJim]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What if there was a war and nobody came?

I agree, the point I was trying to make was that we are brainwashed long before the recruiters start calling you up.

Oh right. Sorry mate, my perception chip must have been malfunctioning.

 

[Biggles of 266]

http://www.symbolman.com/chickenhawks.html

 

[BigJim]

http://www.symbolman.com/chickenhawks.html

That would'nt work for me mate. What was it?

 

[Biggles of 266]

a Flash animation listing all the cowards who talked the talk, then walked right into the National Guard. There's a surprisingly large amount of them.

 

[BigJim]

a Flash animation listing all the cowards who talked the talk, then walked right into the National Guard. There's a surprisingly large amount of them.

Ahhhhh. Now I get it. Thanks for clearing that one up mate.

 

[amk714]

http://www.symbolman.com/chickenhawks.html

Biggles, that's quite an eye-opening list. But why aren't there any Democrats on it?

 

[BigJim]

Biggles, that's quite an eye-opening list. But why aren't there any Democrats on it?

Give him time Alex. lol If there is any dirt to find on anyone, he'll bloody well find it! Trust me. This guy is going to make one hell of a journalist!

 

[amk714]

Give him time Alex. lol If there is any dirt to find on anyone, he'll bloody well find it! Trust me. This guy is going to make one hell of a journalist!

Is that what he's aiming to be? No wonder he quotes Latin and stuff!

 

[Biggles of 266]

aww shucks, thanks Jim

amk: I haven't looked into it, but I'd say there are two reasons.

1. Democrats are spotless, fearless, and never afraid to fight for something they believe in

2. The guy who made the site believes in Reason Number 1 and only wants to make Republicans look bad (worse), so he (she) didn't put any Dems on their list.

I'm sure all politicians are just like each other, willing to send others out to die while they guard a desk. Still, there are a hell of a lot of names on that list who I see on the news every night barking and raving about going to war.

 

[BigJim]

aww shucks, thanks Jim

amk: I haven't looked into it, but I'd say there are two reasons.

1. Democrats are spotless, fearless, and never afraid to fight for something they believe in

2. The guy who made the site believes in Reason Number 1 and only wants to make Republicans look bad (worse), so he (she) didn't put any Dems on their list.

I'm sure all politicians are just like each other, willing to send others out to die while they guard a desk. Still, there are a hell of a lot of names on that list who I see on the news every night barking and raving about going to war.

After posting No. 1, did you need a crowbar to extricate your tongue from your cheek tosser?

I'd agree wholeheartedly with your asessment of all politicians. The really sad thing is that unless a politician comes along who is just like that, he/she will never make it to the top. The top is controlled by people like you just described and they close ranks like a f***ing Venus Fly Trap at the sickly scent of honesty!

 

[venray]

After posting No. 1, did you need a crowbar to extricate your tongue from your cheek tosser?

LOL..Well said!

 

[BigJim]

LOL..Well said!

???????? You call that a post? BWAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA............

 

[amk714]

1. Democrats are spotless, fearless, and never afraid to fight for something they believe in

Horse hockey! (BS!) But I still like them more than the Repugnicans.