religion and politics...how should they mix?

[TicklingDuo]

just an interesting note:
the Uniting Church of Victoria and Tasmania are planning mass civil disobedience by refusing to pay any 'war taxes' that will be imposed by the government. The Queensland church is meeting in a couple of weeks and will decide then what to do about it.

What do you think about churches getting involved in political actions? Some Uniting Church members attended anti-vietnam rallies too, and were arrested.

Biggles

This was posted in the presidential support thread. So, I thought I'd let that one stay on topic and respond here.

I don't think that religion should dictate the course of politics...or politics that of religion. But, I DO feel that people who truly believe a certain way should be allowed to live those beliefs to the fullest. That includes lawful dissent about engaging in wars and paying taxes that support things they truly believe to be unjust.

Following my own faith would negate my paying taxes because our tax dollars go to MANY things that I believe to be inherantly wrong. But, since I'm unable to work, that really isn't much of an issue.

However...there IS a problem in doing this. If we say that people only have to go along if they agree, then people will claim to believe all sorts of things in order to avoid taxes, military service, etc. That could cause more harm than good.

I honestly believe that what we need, both as individuals and as a nation, is a spiritual awakening. I don't mean that as everyone coming to one set of beliefs. I mean it as each individual finding what they personally believe and truly living it...as long as it doesn't interfere with the rights of others. That was the original ideal upon which this country was founded. While things weren't perfect (because WE aren't perfect), they were a lot better than they are now.

A big part of our problem today is that people generally don't know what they believe. They have no direction or purpose. So they just wander through life, never being fulfilled or joyful. That's just sad.

Ann

 

[Admiral Trouser]

In regards to your final comment:

Most people's ambition in life is to simply get along comfortably, and many feel that they are too busy working hard to acheive this to take time out and review there spirituality. Many people, I feel, would be slightly miffed at your suggestion that because they do not have a strong sense of direction spiritualy then they are 'wandering' through there life. To me, at least, my job, freinds and hobbies are my life, and my focus is directed towards making sure that they are kept in balance and harmony. Although I do have time to think about more abstract, spritual ideas, I generaly try to keep them seperate from everything else lest I get to caught up in my own thoughts.
Thats not to say that such introspection is without use: As a student of theology and philosophy, I've learnt so much about the world around me that before I didn't know, and this in turn has effected the way I view and interact with it. I'll spare you the details on that, lol

Eh, I've gone off topic somewhat.

To me, politics and religeon will always mix because in a sense religious groups and political parties are one and the same thing: Both are trying to push forward there ideology on how we, the people, should go about our business. Whether it be socialism, communism, conservatism or Christianity, all of these groups are trying to advocate a general way of living. The only difference between the two groups is the way in which they try and acheive this: Politics is somewhat more direct in its actions, whereas Religeon perhaps offers the biggest gains for the individual. Still, the two will always influence each other I think.

When I figure out how and why I'll post it, lol. Its on the tip of my tongue....

 

[amk714]

Without getting off on a rant about the Religious Right, I'll only say that I do not believe politics and religion should ever mix (unfortunately, they do).

Regarding spirituality, I'm an atheist, but that doesn't mean my life doesn't have any spirituality or a sense of direction or purpose. At school and at home, my friends and family come first, and everything else takes a back seat. I live every day of my life as if it's my last, and never take anything for granted. I believe that our life here on Earth is all we have, which is why I cherish it all the more. Ann's and Admiral T's comments are right on the money. Thanks for the discussion, guys.

 

[omega]

Without getting off on a rant about the Religious Right, I'll only say that I do not believe politics and religion should ever mix (unfortunately, they do).

Regarding spirituality, I'm an atheist, but that doesn't mean my life doesn't have any spirituality or a sense of direction or purpose. At school and at home, my friends and family come first, and everything else takes a back seat. I live every day of my life as if it's my last, and never take anything for granted. I believe that our life here on Earth is all we have, which is why I cherish it all the more.

I would be interested in knowing what you mean that politics and religion should never mix. Should organized religion mix with organized politics? I would agree that they should not. Look what happened when Constatine decided to be a Christian emperor.

Should spirituality and politics mix? I don't think we can help it. I can see from your description of your lifestyle that your beliefs affect everything you do. Ideally it should be to the point where there is really no distinction between your beliefs and your lifestyle.

The same is true for me. My beliefs are my lifestyle and my lifestyle shows my beliefs (with occasional slip ups). Whenever I vote, my beliefs will guide the way I vote. If I were to be elected to some office, my beliefs would shape the way I do my job.

 

[ForgottenTcklr]

In general,

The Politicans who have a deep spirituallity generally are more faithful to the integrity of their position. What I'm saying is while it may not mean they're better, it does show that they stick to strong morals, which generally benefit all of society.

 

[Strelnikov]

This is the Bible Belt, and Alabama is the buckle. For many of us, like Omega, religion is a major part of who we are. That colors our politics - for the better, I think.

As for the "religious right", they look a lot like my friends and neighbors. Good people, mostly, and nothing to be afraid of.

Strelnikov

 

[TicklingDuo]

wishing I'd been able to get back to this sooner...

Admiral Trouser wrote: Many people, I feel, would be slightly miffed at your suggestion that because they do not have a strong sense of direction spiritualy then they are 'wandering' through there life.

Allow me to clarify. I do not mean to suggest that religion and spirituality are the same. Religion is a set practice of certain beliefs. Spirituality is the sum of those truths you hold dear...whatever they may be for each individual.

There should be no need to take offense from my statement. By those definitions, one who doesn't know what they believe or what is/isn't true for them WOULD be wandering since they wouldn't know who or what to trust in their life. That doesn't negate the value of their life. But, it may negate their own sense of peace...which is where I become concerned for others. (I can totally disagree with what someone believes. But, if they're truly at peace with it, I'm not necessarily going to debate with them.)

THAT was what I meant by what I said. I hope that helps. If you still find it offensive, then I guess we can just agree to disagree and move on. Peace!

Ann

 

[Iggy pop]

All I can think is "what would Jesus do" or "what whould Jesus say"

 

[Iggy pop]

.

As for the "religious right", they look a lot like my friends and neighbors. Good people, mostly, and nothing to be afraid of.

Strelnikov

I'm sure many are good people, but it is their ideas that I despise.

 

[Admiral Trouser]

I wasn't offended, Ann, sorry if my reaction came across that way

Regarding your clarification:

Surely your religeon, or lack of it if you're an athiest, defines the nature of your spirituality, and vice versa? No-one, I think, chooses a religion that conflicts with the truths that hold dear to, and if anything a persons spirituality is the product of there religious beliefs, or again lack of them. Thats why I find the two so hard to seperate.

Just my thoughts on the matter, its an interesting topic

 

[Strelnikov]

Quoting Iggy:
"I'm sure many are good people, but it is their ideas that I despise."

How do you know? Have you ever talked to one of them? Or are you getting your info from the establishment media?

The term "religious right" is an invention of the Godless Left, and is intended to scare the bejesus out of the squishy middle. Especially those who don't trouble themselves to look into the matter for themselves.

No such thing exists. We're ordinary folks who care about our families, our society and our country. We feel that this country took a wrong turn, and that we need to make it right again. Has little to do with issues of party politics, though since the Dems have been hostile to us, we tend to be more comfortable in the Repub Party or independents.

Strelnikov

 

[Iggy pop]

How do you know? Have you ever talked to one of them? Or are you getting your info from the establishment media?]

Yes I have talked to them. They tried to save me at Mardi Gras one year.

The term "religious right" is an invention of the Godless Left, and is intended to scare the bejesus out of the squishy middle. Especially those who don't trouble themselves to look into the matter for themselves.

And the term Godless Left is the invention of the religious right. It appears as if we are going in a circle here.

 

[Biggles of 266]

Originally posted by Strelnikov

The Right:We're ordinary folks who care about our families, our society and our country. We feel that this country took a wrong turn, and that we need to make it right again.

The Left:We're ordinary folks who care about our families, our society and our country. We feel that this country took a wrong turn, and that we need to make it right again.

The Difference: not a whole lot

 

[TicklingDuo]

Yes I have talked to them. They tried to save me at Mardi Gras one year.

Just be careful to not assume that all are the same.

I've had plenty of people try to "save me" over the years. When someone comes up and asks me if I've been saved, I always answer the same... "Yes, I HAVE been saved. It happened 2,000 years ago on Calvary and I'm still struggling to accept it." It always kinda bugs me when people ask me that. But, then, everyone responds and believes in their own way.

Ann

 

[Moses25]

How should religion and politics mix?

Like oil and water, bro. Like oil and water...


"...and on the 13th day, Gawd created horror."

Cheers.

 

[Iggy pop]

Re: How should religion and politics mix?

Like oil and water, bro. Like oil and water...

And this comes from Moses himself.

 

[omega]

Re: Re: How should religion and politics mix?

And this comes from Moses himself.

Well actually from Moses XXV. A direct descendant of Moses XXIV.

 

[TickledToDeath]

Religion and politics should NEVER in any way shape or form EVER mix!
Individually they are corrupted. Mixed together it would make for a tall glass of chaos! On the rocks!

TTD

 

[Biggles of 266]

Bartender, make that a double!