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What happened to C.A.B?

C.A.B. and the TMF had a disagreement about editorial policy, and the shakeout of that was he requested that his material be removed from the forum under his copyright rights, and he has chosen to not post here any longer.

I personally deeply regretted this result, but was unable to change it. As noted above, you can still view his art on DA at the link provided above.

Myriads
 
I'm going to be honest and I'm pretty sure I'm going to get a lot of flack for saying this but C.A.B. lost any and all respect I had for him after he attacked a user for merely giving their thoughts (some users might know what i'm talking about but for those who don't let me explain, sometime during the summer of 2015 someone had expressed their thoughts as to what they'd like to see from C.A.B., if memory serves me right I believe the user said that they'd like to see a sockless version of one of C.A.B.'s images in one of his art submissions, in his response C.A.B.'s message went something along the lines of "we don't take requests, if you want something either do it yourself or fuck off" and C.A.B. if you ever read this you know which post I'm talking about and you owe that user a serious apology for being a complete and utter dick with no good reason, if I could find them I'd post the exact messages but since C.A.B. went and deleted all of his posts I can't find them anymore) the only reason I bit my tongue and stayed silent at the time was because C.A.B. was a well established and respected member of TMF and I didn't want to risk starting trouble but now that he's gone and basically punished a whole community for something that most had no involvement in, as far as i'm concerned it's fair game and while I feel sorry for the TMF as his departure is a major loss for the community as a whole it's not much of a loss for me personally.
 
I'll take it his politics and or violence against women deal finally caught up with him.
 
Before this turns into some dumb pile of speculation I'm going to end it.

There was a dispute about one of C.A.B.'s works on the forum. I felt it was within the forums rules, but was overruled on consideration by the entire moderation staff. So the piece was removed. We've always worked by committee and this was one time where my opinion didn't hold.

C.A.B. felt that if that work was not welcome here, then he was not either, and chose to exercise his right as copyright holder on all his work to have it removed. I did this, and he thanked me, and left.

So no, there were no problems with violence to women, or his politics, or that he was rude to a user who asked him to change one of his works. It came down to a direct conflict with our posting rules and how they were interpreted, and nothing more.

I heavily disagreed with this outcome and worked to maintain his presence. I failed.

I regret the loss of his work, his leadership as a member of the artistic community here, and the many other contributions he freely made here. The forums is less for his departure.

But that is how life is. Stupid oozes in and ruins shit.

Myriads
 
Before this turns into some dumb pile of speculation I'm going to end it.

There was a dispute about one of C.A.B.'s works on the forum. I felt it was within the forums rules, but was overruled on consideration by the entire moderation staff. So the piece was removed. We've always worked by committee and this was one time where my opinion didn't hold.

C.A.B. felt that if that work was not welcome here, then he was not either, and chose to exercise his right as copyright holder on all his work to have it removed. I did this, and he thanked me, and left.

So no, there were no problems with violence to women, or his politics, or that he was rude to a user who asked him to change one of his works. It came down to a direct conflict with our posting rules and how they were interpreted, and nothing more.

I heavily disagreed with this outcome and worked to maintain his presence. I failed.

I regret the loss of his work, his leadership as a member of the artistic community here, and the many other contributions he freely made here. The forums is less for his departure.

But that is how life is. Stupid oozes in and ruins shit.

Myriads

Except the rest of the moderation team didn't view it as stupid, or that said artwork fit within the forum's rules.

If it's over content from some of his posts, which given how things are, either we are talking underage characters or something more disturbing, then the fact that this forum has had zero leniency historically over those issues makes me glad a double standard precinct was not set simply because of how people viewed his contribution to the TMF.
 
Except the rest of the moderation team didn't view it as stupid, or that said artwork fit within the forum's rules.

If it's over content from some of his posts, which given how things are, either we are talking underage characters or something more disturbing, then the fact that this forum has had zero leniency historically over those issues makes me glad a double standard precinct was not set simply because of how people viewed his contribution to the TMF.

Nothing quite so significant. People claimed a cartoon rabbit was underage in a work. I looked at the rabbit, and actually went back and watched the entire source work. There was no character that was the same coloring or appearance as the rabbit. So I decided that the rabbit was not a minor and let the work pass. Staff decided that the rabbit represented the other rabbits in the source material as a whole and was thus underage. And the work was pulled.

I've always tried to preserve as many works in art or stories as I can unedited or changed. Every time someone pens a story and says the character is a 'teen' I get a report. I read the story and decided if the 'teen' in question is realistically doing things that a 18 or 19 year old would be doing. If they are the work stands. If not I kill it (Not many 18 year old high school freshmen for example) But I always try to allow the biggest range of doubt for a work to stand. I employed the same formula here in art.

When I use the term 'stupid oozes in' I mean it literally. I tossed a chunk of an afternoon researching the AGE OF A CARTOON RABBIT. And that people were actually debating about the AGE OF A CARTOON RABBIT, and that all of this led to an end where no one was happy with the results. It was a pile of stupid.

Lot's of problems one encounters in running places like this are at their core piles of stupid.

Note that this was from a creator that has always taken great pains to never depict minors in their works, so it wasn't much of a stretch to take this content in that context also even before I watched the entire Disney Robin Hood film (Gods that sucked).

So like the end result, or hate it, it's done. And the above is the stupid path to that end.

And the decision stood because regardless of if I think it's stupid or not, we set the forum up to run in such a way as that all active moderation get a voice in calls. And what I think about a choice does not influence my execution of it once it's made.

Myriads
 
Before this turns into some dumb pile of speculation I'm going to end it.
There was a dispute about one of C.A.B.'s works on the forum. I felt it was within the forums rules, but was overruled on consideration by the entire moderation staff. So the piece was removed. We've always worked by committee and this was one time where my opinion didn't hold.
C.A.B. felt that if that work was not welcome here, then he was not either, and chose to exercise his right as copyright holder on all his work to have it removed. I did this, and he thanked me, and left.
So no, there were no problems with violence to women, or his politics, or that he was rude to a user who asked him to change one of his works. It came down to a direct conflict with our posting rules and how they were interpreted, and nothing more.
I heavily disagreed with this outcome and worked to maintain his presence. I failed.
I regret the loss of his work, his leadership as a member of the artistic community here, and the many other contributions he freely made here. The forums is less for his departure.
But that is how life is. Stupid oozes in and ruins shit.
Myriads

That was a reasoned, well thought out explanation of what I can only imagine was a pretty contentious circumstance.
Thanks for that.
 
An underage cartoon rabbit?? Is this where we're at now? Good grief!
 
Lot's of problems one encounters in running places like this are at their core piles of stupid.

Note that this was from a creator that has always taken great pains to never depict minors in their works, so it wasn't much of a stretch to take this content in that context also even before I watched the entire Disney Robin Hood film (Gods that sucked).

So like the end result, or hate it, it's done. And the above is the stupid path to that end.

Now I finally understood. I feel bad. Really bad. It's like becoming an orphan. :(
 
Except he used Disney Princesses, Judy Jetson, and other Hanna Barbara cartoon characters that were underage in other artwork he has posted here, keeping their art style very much intact.

People have had work pulled for significantly less.
 
Maybe he'll return someday (wishful thinking). I'm sure gonna miss Mr. Fetish.
 
Except he used Disney Princesses, Judy Jetson, and other Hanna Barbara cartoon characters that were underage in other artwork he has posted here, keeping their art style very much intact.

People have had work pulled for significantly less.

This was my issue when commenting on the Robin Hood rabbit. In the past, Kim Possible was a huge thing and a lot of fan artwork got deleted. She was a teen character but clearly underage and since aging is not allowed here, even with an "adult" body was removed.

Special rules for special members = pissed off regular users, accusations of favoritism and cliqueyness.
 
This was my issue when commenting on the Robin Hood rabbit. In the past, Kim Possible was a huge thing and a lot of fan artwork got deleted. She was a teen character but clearly underage and since aging is not allowed here, even with an "adult" body was removed.

Special rules for special members = pissed off regular users, accusations of favoritism and cliqueyness.

See this is where the age rules become a pain in the hinder.

Kim Possible in her source material contains some episodes where she is clearly referenced as being older then 18. Which means that any work that shows her has to be examined then matched against source material to place in the timeline and then ruled as to if it's legit or not. Harry Potter has this same problem thanks to that adult epilog chapter where the characters are of age.

Most of the Disney princesses have been revealed to be 18 by Disney in their various direct to DVD features and thus become fair game when material is set after said works. Again the pain-in-assery of figuring this stuff out is immense. I've watched more Disney shit, and read more Disney character bios curated by people who are deathly serious about the stuff then I care to think about.

Judy Jetson was never given an age in the TV series, and was portrayed as a High School student, I'm willing to offer the benefit of the doubt that she was a senior and 18. But you sure as hell can be sure Elroy is off limits.

I try to be as even handed with these editing calls as I can be. I LOATH censoring any artists work. It's not in line with my personal philosophies. And while my calls might look random for the outside I've always based them on a ton of research, and from the creators historical body of work and intent.

15 years ago when I took on the Admin job here, the above sort of work was something that you would have never gotten me to believe I'd need to do. It's been a strange trip.

Myriads
 
To give you a lot of slack, Myriads, you removed ONE of his pictures.....then he threw a hissy fit, deleted ALL of his stuff and left.

That's really immature.

People have had multiple posts deleted, threads locked, been banned from the politics forum...hell, producers have had their work pirated, yet all above still remained to contribute.
 
To give you a lot of slack, Myriads, you removed ONE of his pictures.....then he threw a hissy fit, deleted ALL of his stuff and left.

That's really immature.

People have had multiple posts deleted, threads locked, been banned from the politics forum...hell, producers have had their work pirated, yet all above still remained to contribute.

CAB...throwing a hissy fit?

This cannot be!
 
Well, if he's gone, there's not much sense in piling on, is there?
 
To give you a lot of slack, Myriads, you removed ONE of his pictures.....then he threw a hissy fit, deleted ALL of his stuff and left.

That's really immature.

People have had multiple posts deleted, threads locked, been banned from the politics forum...hell, producers have had their work pirated, yet all above still remained to contribute.

I'm not in a position to comment on what his reasoning was in withdrawing. But I can make a case for artistic integrity, and how some artists take it seriously, and will all or nothing over it. Perhaps that was his path.

There have been a lot of members who upon having their posts edited by us (And I'm talking posts, not specifically created art) who have left the forum because they felt their ideas were being interfered with, and that they had no time for a place that would do that. I personally regret such results, but they happen. This is not unlike that.

Bottom line. Each of you reading this liked C.A.B.'s works or didn't, you all had opinions about the man behind the works that are your own also. (Amusingly I'm sure there is an intersection of those two sets that included people who hate C.A.B. but frantically wanked to his work.) so rejoice or be sad as you see fit. But I'm not going to see this turn into GR theater.

And he's still chugging along on DA for all those who care and want to see his work. Or if you don't like his stuff carry on, as you won't be bothered here by it.

Myriads
 
He was a great contributer to the art forum in a lot of ways he kept things fresh on here I'm sad to see him go but rules are rules and unfortunately. From what I've seen Myriads has always been above bored and fair no bad guy here just an unfortunate misunderstanding.
 
I just really doubt mods would go to the extent they have to research cabs possible pseudo child porn if it was a different artist drawing up half naked Kim possibles or hannah montanas. It's always been a no tolerance policy until someone's buddy and co artist was the one breaking rules.

Conflict of interest?
 
I'm not looking for a fight here, and I'm sure I'm in the MINOR-ity, but...whatever happened to tickling good ol' fashioned adult PEOPLE??? Have we compromised so much over the years that we now have to pretend that bunnies and ponies and teddy bears are NOT child-like by their very nature? Shouldn't our responsibility as adults, toward the safeguarding of minors extend to things which also ATTRACT minors?

Personally, (and I've always maintained this opinion) this site would have to worry much less about running afoul of pedophiliac interpretations if we stopped depicting child-like images to begin with. Disney Princesses, Forest friends, 10 year-old-looking Anime characters and the lot do more to promote a borderline hypocritical view than they do to enforce the whole "no minors" argument, in my opinion. Just because you call a children's image 18 years old with a wink toward "we know better," does absolutely nothing to support the idea that we don't cater to or depict minors.

I'm only guessing, but if we got rid of the child-like images and got back to ADULT people on this ADULT site, maybe the children (and would-be pedophiles) would fade away until they become adults. Then, just maybe, this problem concerning the depiction of minors would fade away with them.

I'm a huge fan of C.A.B., and maybe C.A.B. felt this very double-standard, but he would have been used to these restrictions by now if he would have never been allowed to post his earlier near-child-depicting works here.
 
I just really doubt mods would go to the extent they have to research cabs possible pseudo child porn if it was a different artist drawing up half naked Kim possibles or hannah montanas. It's always been a no tolerance policy until someone's buddy and co artist was the one breaking rules.

Conflict of interest?

I've got a decade and change of researching this stuff from writers and artists that I know to those that I don't. Give HDS a jingle and ask him how many times we've asked him to apply his deep knowledge of Anime characters to make calls for and against.

I have routinely passed on moderating members whom I would have a conflict of interest with on my moderation calls to other staff. And they have done the same to me. For a bunch of unpaid folks we've done surprisingly well at being even handed and unbiased. Do I agree personally with every call? No. But I do with the overall policy results. And all active staff is very unbiased in their collective opinion.

I still stand by my call on this one, even though ti was overruled. Just as I'd stand by the three other calls I made in the weeks before this one on minor content in various art and stories that other creators were reported on. One went down, two stayed up.

You feel I'm biased? You are always welcome to your opinions, but base your call on the entire body of reviews I've made over the past decade and a half, then make the call. You have no idea how many works I've reviewed or passed on to others who have specific knowledge to review because like most good moderation it's invisible.

Myriads
 
You are the one opening this all up to discussion. I get that you're upset, but from my point of view it looks like everyone is butthurt that the rules can't be bent for certain people.
 
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