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Non Consensual? "White Knighting"

SoleMates said:
Yeah, but a "yes" after having been badgered all night can't really be considered a "yes", either. That's what the concept of "enthusiastic consent" is for. It teaches the difference between "Yes! Yes! A thousand times yes!" and "okay, fine, if I say yes will you shut the fuck up about it?" - and helpful hint, you want the former and not the latter.
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Well I said that I agreed with the OP's decision to stop the scene. I also implied that calling the police on someone in a consentual relationship was probably not the best idea.
 
Yes and no and consent should be pretty clear concepts to adults. There shouldn't have to be any kind of interpreting what kind of yes or no it is unless there's alcohol or drugs or serious mental illness involved
 
You did right.
What makes me feel sad is that the girl was probably ashamed to say no, which somehow happens in abusive relations when the girl just thinks it's normal to be abused like this, and what's more awful - gets used to and even starts to like such relations.
Smells much like domestic violence.

I don't know for sure how such girls can be saved except for caring parents and relatives who can explain her what's what, but not everyone has this help.
 
Holy shit. I really hope that "don't white knight because you don't know the relationship" bullshit is just a myth. The difference between a hardcore D/s relationship and a woman with an abusive controlling boyfriend is very obvious. You said the woman looked visibly uncomfortable. As if she wasn't enjoying herself. I'll admit I don't really know anything about D/s relationships but come on!! Sounds like whoever made up the white knighting rule probably just got sick of being called out on his rapey bullshit. Anybody who was really having a consensual play session would have no problem sorting out a misunderstanding. You did the right thing, man. Don't worry about it, keep doing what you're doing.
 
Lol now we are inferring from no evidence whatsoever that the female (not girl, hopefully) needed saving from her abusive relationship?

Not knowing the entire story beyond what the OP claims ,I think we might be jumping to some serious white Knight conclusions
 
I think you did the right thing. Perhaps you should have smacked that douchebag and dump his head in the toilet. I hope she is ok too. Were you able to hear back from her and see whether the situation got resolved? Again, you did the right thing. We have been humans who knows how to be compassionate long before our tickle-kink kicked in.
 
tickletherapist said:
You did right.
What makes me feel sad is that the girl was probably ashamed to say no, which somehow happens in abusive relations when the girl just thinks it's normal to be abused like this, and what's more awful - gets used to and even starts to like such relations.
Smells much like domestic violence.

I don't know for sure how such girls can be saved except for caring parents and relatives who can explain her what's what, but not everyone has this help.
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Excellent points here. I wonder what the longer relationship is with those two. Is she miserable in the relationship itself, but can't find the courage to
leave? I've seen that a lot in my life, among girls AND guys. It's easy peezy on the internet to just declare "Just dump the guy/girl, it's easy! Man up, woman up!"
But when you're dealing with a master manipulator and all around asshole, plus have any level of paranoia, leaving a relationship like that could be the hardest thing you ever do.

She may have gone to the party because he badgered her into that lifestyle, and when she dumps him later on, she'll be a very anti-tickling person from then on.

You did good.

By the way, what is "White Knighting" in the real world, or world of fetish fun?

Online white knights suck, but that appears to be totally different from your situation.
Online white knights will agree with a woman NO MATTER WHAT, and feel the need to "defend" them from the other "evil" men out there
who would dare disagree with them, usually in the hopes of getting some sexy action later on from said women, even though it never happens.
 
mabus said:
By the way, what is "White Knighting" in the real world, or world of fetish fun?

Online white knights suck, but that appears to be totally different from your situation.
Online white knights will agree with a woman NO MATTER WHAT, and feel the need to "defend" them from the other "evil" men out there
who would dare disagree with them, usually in the hopes of getting some sexy action later on from said women, even though it never happens.
Click to expand...

This is exactly what I was thinking.
 
chicago said:
Lol now we are inferring from no evidence whatsoever that the female (not girl, hopefully) needed saving from her abusive relationship?

Not knowing the entire story beyond what the OP claims ,I think we might be jumping to some serious white Knight conclusions
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Can't see "Lol" in this case, sorry.
Sure we don't know all the background, but we have eyes and ears, and most of all - heart and insight that can judge what's happening around us. (I'm talking about the OP who made that decision)
The background might even be that she owes him money and has to do what he says.
And what if she has no one to turn to.
I really hope it's just my imagination, but it's not a "Lol" case for me, as it's for you.

I personally know a female, a person who I care for, who was in such abusive relations, and had absolutely no one to ask for help or to turn to. Just imagine it - No one. Until once she found strength to quit, but the shade of these relations doesn't go away in her mind for many years.
Of course anytime we can say it's her problem and it's she who should find the way out.
I understand it's the opinion of people with strong willpower, like you, Chicago, certainly are. Who can take care of themselves and don't need a knight ever.

However, I really wish that your future daughter won't find herself in that situation.
 
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tickletherapist said:
Can't see "Lol" in this case, sorry.
Sure we don't know all the background, but we have eyes and ears, and most of all - heart and insight that can judge what's happening around us. (I'm talking about the OP who made that decision)
The background might even be that she owes him money and has to do what he says.
And what if she has no one to turn to.
I really hope it's just my imagination, but it's not a "Lol" case for me, as it's for you.

I personally know a female, my friend, who was in such abusive relations, and had absolutely no one to ask for help or to turn to. Just imagine it - No one. Until once she found strength to quit, but the shade of these relations doesn't go away in her mind for many years.
Of course anytime we can say it's her problem and it's she who should find the way out.
I understand it's the opinion of people with strong willpower, like you, Chicago, certainly are. Who can take care of themselves and don't need a knight ever.

However, I really wish that your future daughter (if you have a daughter) won't find herself in that situation.
Click to expand...

So now we're invoking people's (maybe) future children to make a point?
I call shenanigans.
 
Sensualswitch10 said:
So now we're invoking people's (maybe) future children to make a point?
I call shenanigans.
Click to expand...
You will be surprised at how the invocation of someone who people love and care for sometimes helps them to feel empathy to someone they absolutely don't care for. Simple but it works.
 
Sensualswitch10 said:
So now we're invoking people's (maybe) future children to make a point?
I call shenanigans.
Click to expand...

I think tickletherapist's general point was that nobody deserves abusive treatment, and everyone should be taught to stand up for themselves, especially in the case of abusive relationships. There's nothing wrong with caring for those we don't know. We get involved in arguments we should stay out of because we care. I'm occasionally guilty of that. I hate violence and arguments and try to avoid them myself, but when something heated is going on in my presence, I use my own judgement to either intervene or stay out. Does it make me a bad person? No. It makes me a decent human being who feels like doing something about it because I just know that (sadly) nobody else will.

What the OP did was a noble thing. He was left in charge of the place and acted on what he saw was abuse. And even if he wasn't in charge, he would've most likely reported it to the host who may not have been looking at that moment. We don't know what goes on behind closed doors, we can only assume based on what we see and hear. And from what the OP wrote, the couple's interaction bore the basic signs of an abusive relationship. It's just a shame that there aren't enough decent people out there who could teach those who are too ashamed/weak/lack the willpower to stand up and respect themselves. Too many learn it the hard way, and offer pay the price of carrying deep scars.

This has been touched upon too many times, whether tied to relationships or not. Yet we still end up learning the hard way. Even Einstein said: "The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing."
 
tickletherapist said:
Can't see "Lol" in this case, sorry.
Sure we don't know all the background, but we have eyes and ears, and most of all - heart and insight that can judge what's happening around us. (I'm talking about the OP who made that decision)
The background might even be that she owes him money and has to do what he says.
And what if she has no one to turn to.
I really hope it's just my imagination, but it's not a "Lol" case for me, as it's for you.

I personally know a female, a person who I care for, who was in such abusive relations, and had absolutely no one to ask for help or to turn to. Just imagine it - No one. Until once she found strength to quit, but the shade of these relations doesn't go away in her mind for many years.
Of course anytime we can say it's her problem and it's she who should find the way out.
I understand it's the opinion of people with strong willpower, like you, Chicago, certainly are. Who can take care of themselves and don't need a knight ever.

However, I really wish that your future daughter won't find herself in that situation.
Click to expand...

My lol was referring to the wild assumptions of abuse and now owing money? This is what white knights do. They create the situation in which the damsel is in distress in their minds or exaggerate a potential iffy situation into some kind of romance novel where they can appear to be the kind, sensitive hero.


We don't know anything outside of the OPs interpretation of the situation. Anything else is irrelevant.
 
chicago said:
My lol was referring to the wild assumptions of abuse and now owing money? This is what white knights do. They create the situation in which the damsel is in distress in their minds or exaggerate a potential iffy situation into some kind of romance novel where they can appear to be the kind, sensitive hero.


We don't know anything outside of the OPs interpretation of the situation. Anything else is irrelevant.
Click to expand...

So are we to assume white knight types are usually fairly unsuccessful when it comes to just approaching a woman without a villain to rescue her from?

And to reiterate, I fully support the OP's decision to stop the scene.
 
I fully support it as well. It's the imagined situations being implied by people who weren't there that I have issue with.

Personally, there's nothing less attractive than a man who thinks they need to come to my rescue or one that tells me nothing but what they think I want to hear. I can see right through it and it's insulting.

Some chicks might like that whole deal though.
 
chicago said:
Yes and no and consent should be pretty clear concepts to adults. There shouldn't have to be any kind of interpreting what kind of yes or no it is unless there's alcohol or drugs or serious mental illness involved
Click to expand...

Oh, you sweet summer child...

More seriously, I feel the same way but at this point in my life expecting people to be straightforward is about as productive as yelling at clouds.
 
Oh, well I guess I didn't really know the exact definition of a white knight. Still, while this situation may not have been a sexual assault in progress, it's pretty shitty to assume that guys are just making up some scenarios in their heads to use as an excuse to "rescue" a woman and ultimately get into her pants. Is it really hard to believe that some of us feel legitimate concern for others when it seems as though they may be in danger?
 
Oh without a doubt I think some white knights really believe their knee jerk reaction concerns about a situation based on limited information. That said, how they choose to act is a different story.

In this case, it's arguable that the situation is just a case of poor communication by the ler, the Lee, and maybe even the host. When dealing with kink , play parties, bondage, etc that communication should be crystal clear where boundaries and limits are concerned. When that doesn't happen, things like this case can occur. But can you say the guy intentionally tried to harm the woman who again, verbally consented to said activities? Based on what little we know, I don't think so.
 
You keep bringing up the woman's "verbal consent" as if she was a completely willing participant instead of someone who gave in just to shut the guy up. Sure you can technically call that consent, but I don't think a grudging "fine" amounts to true consent.
 
Chicago is right. It's not good to infer too much about their relationship from such limited information. But stopping it was the right call given place, situation, etc.
 
Hemmen said:
You keep bringing up the woman's "verbal consent" as if she was a completely willing participant instead of someone who gave in just to shut the guy up. Sure you can technically call that consent, but I don't think a grudging "fine" amounts to true consent.
Click to expand...

Again that's also something we don't know for sure. Tone, intent, etc isn't always just hard to interpret through text. And if the woman didn't want to play , she should have said so. Saying yes when you mean no can cause problems for everyone involved when no harm may have been intended. Again, there's just a lot we don't know
 
My wife and I don't do big group kink stuff, but isn't "No!" (in varying levels of intensity) a pretty common thing to hear?
 
After lots of general opining on this one, (some of which was interesting, don't get me wrong), any possibility for an update on this story? Was the party host able to convey any additional information about the couple?
 
IMHO you absolutely did the right thing. The fact is, despite the popularity of the TMF, most women(men too, for that matter) dislike or outright hate being tickled. So they would REALLY hate being tickled while restrained. Don't beat yourself up man. A lot of people would've just looked the other way while this poor girl was being tortured, but you helped out this lady and that's to be admired. If anyone crossed the line, it was that douchebag who was tickling his GF when she obviously wasn't enjoying it.
 
brotherted said:
After lots of general opining on this one, (some of which was interesting, don't get me wrong), any possibility for an update on this story? Was the party host able to convey any additional information about the couple?
Click to expand...

Im sorry. I hadnt logged back in until now. I didnt think the post would be discussed past that day so i didnt check. But anyway i talked to the host of the party and he told me he had heard that the guy did a similar thing to another girl so it wasnt his first time
 
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