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I remember fondly the edge of the 90's

Tenebrae

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Do you remember the 90's ? There was a particular aesthetic during that era that seems to have been erased post-2000's, and I sort of miss it.

Movies like Angel Heart, The Crow, Se7en or Dark City were describing the East Coast as damp and oppressive urban environments drenched in rain, ridden with crime and prowled at night by strange creatures or sadistic killers. A massive amount of steam could be seen coming out of the sewers. Derelict factories and abandoned hangars were the habitual settings for drug deals or ruthless executions often accompanied with torture. On the West Coast, Michael Douglas was losing his mind and lashing out against the system under the scorching Californian sun, when he was not playing a cynical businessman who had profited too much from the Reagan years. Corrupt movie producers were treating young women like bags of meat and sex objects in a Hollywood that was portrayed as THE place where innocence dies (8mm, Mulholland Drive...).

Heroes were almost always sporting black leather, whether it was worn as a whole outfit or a simple jacket, while sunglasses were not uncommon, even at night. They were often self-loathing, cynical and at times cruel in spite of their immense strength and strict moral codes. There was a sense that nothing mattered, that the world we were heading towards had nothing to offer to anyone anymore, and that innocence was no longer a given but rather a luxury at most and a burden to get rid of quickly at worst. Love was there of course, but also in an edgier form: in True Romance, Christian Slater and Patricia Arquette were madly in love but had to fight for their survival in an "us against the world" mentality. In Natural Born Killers, we were treated to a charming couple out on a killing spree. In Payback, an extra cute Asian clad in a leather outfit beat her lover with all kind of implements before being smacked back by him IN THE FACE with a telephone. Johnny Depp was the sexiest men in entertainment, yet was often portraying guys with tormented personalities. If you were into more virile types, Bruce Willis and Denzel Washington were fighting injustice with style despite suffering grievous wounds, and Brad Pitt looked so damn good even with his face all bruised up.

The most interesting superheroes of the time were monsters like Venom and Spawn, literally edgy in the sense that their suit itself could slice you to ribbons even before their lifted their arms towards you. Even the amiable Spiderman, never the last one to crack a joke, was shown bleeding, doubting, self-loathing. Villains like Carnage (whom Marvel feared so much they had to kill him in the vacuum of space to make sure their authors would not bring him back during the 2000s) were nihilists engaged in an endless killing spree in a fruitless attempt to fill the void of their soul, pure sadists enjoying the suffering of others, mass murderers or simply corrupt businessmen looking to make a profit with no idea of how to spend it. Revolutionaries were often ridiculed for their beliefs, and religion had long lost its meaning with even vampires laughing openly at the cross.

When everyone wanted to catch a breath from the gloom, derision was thankfully everywhere. Friends, Seinfeld, Curb Your Enthusiasm, Frasier were all there to make us laugh... often at someone else's expense. Cruelty was an art form, the world having become so disillusioned that we all thought we might as well laugh at the whole thing. There were no taboos, no "too far" and no offense that was too great. South Park reigned supreme and the Simpsons came out with their darkest ideas yet. Philip Roth warned us that it would end soon, but at the time only the intellectual elite could see the new wave that was going to wash away this peculiar aesthetic.

Which brings me to my existential question: where has it all gone? I've read everywhere that post-9/11, America felt a huge need for a much more positive image of itself (hence the very lighthearted Spider Man films or the aforementioned killing off of Carnage for instance), but is it truly the case? Am I the only one who misses the rugged feel and aesthetic of the 90's? Where have all the manly chain-smoking leather-clad heroes gone? Why do cities now look so clean and shiny in Hollywood movies? Where are the cute misfits like the Dude and Walter Sobchak? I still want to sell my soul to the devil but there is a big CLOSED sign on hell's ticket office :devil: I'm 35 now, my bosses were supposed to be Al Pacino in The Devil's Advocate and Kevin Spacey from A Time To Kill, not some hipster who looks like a groomed version of Lance from Pulp Fiction! And how come I am still not a vampire? :D
 
Friends and Seinfeld were terrible. Not funny and a very narrow scope of a group of boring, vapid yuppies. And for being set in NYC, both shows severely lacked any diversity.
 
My life has spanned several decades, starting in the 60's. I could kinda define each, but in reality they all sort of merge together. I'm not a big movie fan, so don't base my life on the movies of the time(s). I'm more a science geek, pay more attention to things there. If anything, I'd more align with the music of the era. TV shows, some were good for what they were at the time. Sure as hell ain't watching any of the current crop. Anyway, just some ramblings from an old fogey.
 
My life has spanned several decades, starting in the 60's. I could kinda define each, but in reality they all sort of merge together. I'm not a big movie fan, so don't base my life on the movies of the time(s). I'm more a science geek, pay more attention to things there. If anything, I'd more align with the music of the era. TV shows, some were good for what they were at the time. Sure as hell ain't watching any of the current crop. Anyway, just some ramblings from an old fogey.

First, your point of view is ALWAYS appreciated. Always :toast:

It's more the aesthetic of fiction back then that I miss, be it movies, novels, comics or even videoclips. The 90's had an undeniable "edginess" that is sorely missing today. I stopped reading Marvel comics circa 2004 when it became so dumbed down and shiny. I miss the darkness, the violence, the hopelessness...

Friends and Seinfeld were terrible. Not funny and a very narrow scope of a group of boring, vapid yuppies. And for being set in NYC, both shows severely lacked any diversity.

Friends never made me laugh, but the characters were such a part of daily conversations (I can't count the number of times people told me not to be "such a Monica" or that my joke was "Chandler levels of bad") that it is somehow iconic. It is also a massive part of America's soft power: in China every single person of my generation who studied English has watched Friends. And it seems to be the case worldwide: I've met with Saudis and Pakistani in the same case.

Seinfeld, on the other hand, not only was awesome back then but I think still holds pretty well to this day. Naturally, we all have our preferences :bubble:
 
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I know what you mean. I feel like music videos of the time had that same vibe. Sorry my brash delivery xD
 
I know what you mean. I feel like music videos of the time had that same vibe. Sorry my brash delivery xD

Haha, no need to say sorry~ I think we all love this side of you :twohugs: It'd be quite shameful of me to have started a thread in which I complained about the lack of edginess in modern fiction only to get offended by your brash delivery :D

Anyways, it's interesting how everyone replies "music". I'd love to hear all your thoughts in that area as well! Personally, I prefer to analyze movies or books because it is really my forte (if I had another shot at life, I'd love to be a film critic~) while I somehow lack the sort of erudition necessary to analyze music properly.

A few examples do come to mind: I could muse about Korn (my favorite band from the 90's) or bring up that Cardigans video where a tattooed-up young woman dressed in leather intentionally causes several car accidents while driving a convertible, but that would probably be it. I have the utmost admiration for the people who know a lot about music and can talk about it in-depth, but that is just not me. I enjoy listening and discussing it, but I am a terrible music critic :blush:
 
I guess it all depends on what economic / ethnic status you were at during the 90's.

If you were poor and black or latino, you probably weren't having the best time in the 90's.

On the plus side, some great movies, television, music came out during the 90's. The first (and ONLY) Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie, Jurassic Park, Spawn, Seinfeld, Frasier, etc etc.
 
Well, as an example, earlier today I watched "Constant Craving" by K.D. Lang and it was in black and white, had these like film noir meets grunge visual effects, etc. When I saw it, I was reminded of this thread, but I feel like maybe you could also see examples of this in pro-wrestling at the time. I'm no expert historian, but I do think you're on to something lol
 
Oh I definately saw it in pro-wrestling. The whole medium changed. Goofy costumes became the Undertaker coming out on a flaming motorcycle with Steve Austin and the Rock cracking beer cans on their foreheads while female dancers danced during halftime in the Ring. I knew my era of wrestling was over with at that time.

Kinda sobering, I grew up with the Ultimate Warrior, Hulk Hogan, and Macho Man but of course, things changed.

But yeah, media started changing too. Rap became popular for one thing. Some of it was good I feel but then again I haven't listened to much of it.
 
The Marvel shows on Netflix revived the gritty urban vibe for a while. Particularly Daredevil and the Punisher.

In film, the director Nicolas Winding Refn shows nostalgia for that era and style, though with more sophistication. I keep meaning to check out his mini-series (Too Old to Die Young) but I'll have to be in the right mood for that level of NWF.
 
Oh I definately saw it in pro-wrestling. The whole medium changed. Goofy costumes became the Undertaker coming out on a flaming motorcycle with Steve Austin and the Rock cracking beer cans on their foreheads while female dancers danced during halftime in the Ring. I knew my era of wrestling was over with at that time.

Kinda sobering, I grew up with the Ultimate Warrior, Hulk Hogan, and Macho Man but of course, things changed.

But yeah, media started changing too. Rap became popular for one thing. Some of it was good I feel but then again I haven't listened too much of it.

Two very American things that I never managed to develop an interest in: wrestling and football. The latter is too staggered for me (I much prefer rugby and that thing y'all call soccer ;) I am very European, in that sense) and the former too "goofy" and flashy for my taste. I prefer boxing and MMA.

However, I do remember the Undertaker, and you are right: I think he perfectly exemplifies the vibe of that era I was talking about, albeit in a sort of parodic way.

The Marvel shows on Netflix revived the gritty urban vibe for a while. Particularly Daredevil and the Punisher.

I concur! These shows are drawing from 90's era of those comics, and are indeed a departure from the "shinier" Marvel movies. I had a fantastic time watching the Punisher, and while I was skeptical about the casting of Jon Bernthal to begin with, I think he did a great job ^_^ The Punisher: Warzone, the movie directed by Lexi Alexander and starring Ray Stevenson was the definitive Punisher movie for me though, and had even more of that 90's vibe IMO.

In film, the director Nicolas Winding Refn shows nostalgia for that era and style, though with more sophistication. I keep meaning to check out his mini-series (Too Old to Die Young) but I'll have to be in the right mood for that level of NWF.

Nicolas Winding Refn is practically a genre in and by himself. I've seen only the Pusher trilogy, Drive, Only God Forgives and The Neon Demon. To me it's more like he is subverting the aesthetic of the 1980's rather than paying a tribute to the 90's. I have yet to check his miniseries though.
 
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You're right that NWR draws more from the 80s aesthetic than the 90s. I guess for me there's bleedover between the decades -- the early 90s are still part of the 80s, except for Nirvana heralding the end of hair metal. (The Crow was published in 1989. Foreshadowing?) But is NWR's 80s affinity more homage than subversion? Maybe both. To me it definitely feels like nostalgia, but with more insight.

Back to the Netflix marvel shows ... how could I forget Jessica Jones? The first season, anyway. Chandler Noir plus David Tennant's terrifying villain.

I do need to see Punisher: War Zone... As for the comics, I haven't seen anything that tops the Garth Ennis take on the character.
 
On the West Coast, Michael Douglas was losing his mind and lashing out against the system under the scorching Californian sun, when he was not playing a cynical businessman who had profited too much from the Reagan years. Corrupt movie producers were treating young women like bags of meat and sex objects in a Hollywood that was portrayed as THE place where innocence dies (8mm, Mulholland Drive...).

I'm a 90s child with no 90s nostalgia or 90s love. However, if you want to attribute Mulholland Drive, which was shot 1999-2000 and released 2001, to the 90s, I will claim it as my own. Mulholland Drive is the best movie released since Mulholland Drive.
 
The 90's were horrible for the most part in my opinion. But, i'm probably older than most in this thread so don't mind me LOL.

I will admit I did have some very fond memories and fun times in the early 90's (circa 1990 through 1993). But to me the music sucked, a good majority of the movies wern't that great and TV most certainly sucked. Felt it back then and still feel it now. However, I would take the 90's back over the 2000's, 2010's, 2020's, etc any day cause everything since 2000/2001 is 10000xs worse. So that's my positive comment on the decade :)

I grew up in the late 70's through the late 80's...those are the times I miss. I think it's pretty much based on everyone's generation as to their viewpoint of a certain era.
 
I remember the 1990s as a time of great optimism, particularly when I compare it to the 1980s. I was a young kid in the eighties, and looking back, it was sort of a scary time. We were middle of a cold war, there were tv movies about nuclear war, and you also had movies like Red Dawn in the movie theater. It was also the time of the Satanic Panic, so there were supposedly secret satanic cults everywhere, and just by playing D&D or watching the smurfs, you could be initiated into being a Satan worshiper. Crime levels were high in the eighties, and as a kid, you were aware that every stranger was out to fucking kill you.

By the 90s, the Soviet Union had collapsed, the crime levels had dropped dramatically, and nobody gave a rat's ass about Satan anymore. We also had this new thing(well, new to us) called the internet, and I remember the idea that the internet would bring democracy and freedom to the rest of the world. There was this idea that authoritarian regimes would lose their grip on power. Moreover, I remember having a great economy in the late 1990s and it being rather easy to find a job. Therefore, I remember the 90s as an ideal time, even if some of that optimism was coated in arrogance.

In the 2000s, we had 9/11, endless wars, and the Great Recession. Instead of bringing freedom and democracy to the rest of the world, we now worry about the internet spreading baseless conspiracy theories. The authoritarian regimes have not grown weaker but stronger. Thus, a lot of great ideals we had in the 1990s have faded somewhat.
 
I have extensive opinions about this and will post in detail later. Be warned mortals!
 
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