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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    40

    Why do we focus on the lee and not the Ler?

    I've been thinking about this lately.... we often ask, "how sensitive is the lee"? And making determinations around their ticklishness rather than also asking, "how good was the Ler?". It's such a huge factor as if you get an unskilled Ler, it can hurt, be uncomfortable and ultimately, impact someone's response to touch. Why do we do this? And can we change how we talk about it?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    australia sydney
    Posts
    119

    Good Point!

    This is a great point. There are lers out there that really don't know what they are doing. Though in saying that good communication can help the Ler know what to do.

    We should focus on how good a ler is as a versatile ler can should be able to tickle the hell out of anyone aside from those poor people who are just not ticklish!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    2,041
    If you caught me in a bad mood, I'd say it's because these women are not "real" to these people. They're objects that can be degraded for not giving the "customer" what he wants (HOW DARE SHE) because the customer's dick is the only thing that matters and everything must be JUST SO down to the most autistic detail. The fact that in 99% of the cases the tickler is off-screen just adds to that isolated dehumanization. Those lying sluts are just in it for the money, after all, so it's in their best interest to trick the poor, defenseless consumer into forking over the cash. I'd call it a deep, deep level of resentment.

    If you caught me in a good mood, I'd agree with you. I've shot with models that other producers told me "weren't very responsive" and I had them climbing the walls. Maybe you just weren't very good, dude...

    srsly tho, models talk. If they have a bad experience with a producer they will tell you about it.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Boston MA
    Posts
    710
    This is a great point and discussion. I have always asked my potential tickle play partners this question "in your opinion what makes a good tickler? What are the characteristics that make someone a good tickler for you"? I ask these questions because as a ler it is very important to understand how your lee feels about being tickled and what they want out of the experience and how best to get there with them. Because as I look at it, I will only have a good time/experience if my lee has a good time/experience. The two are inextricably coupled IMHO.

    Finally, with each tickle play I learn about how to tickle. I want to learn and be cognizant of a lees expectations and balance that with some spontaneity as well. I hope that makes sense and that we have more conversations about the ler and what makes a good ler.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Ticklin' Tennessee
    Posts
    4,624
    Blog Entries
    34
    People ask me all the time if I'm a GREAT Tickler. Sometimes I say of course for fun. But usually I say to ask my lees.

    Although there are so many variables that can enter a Session. Mood, level of ticklishness can go up and down. Trust issues perhaps. Fear of it being the first time. So many reasons for both the lee AND the Ler. It can just be an issue of meshing at the right time.

    I know for myself I am aware and cognisant of a person's every move. How they are moving their body around. Are they having breathing issues. I find I give a lot of momentary breaks to ensure everything is alright.

    As far as the actual tickling of good or bad. I can't be a hypocrite and say I've never thought I've seen bad Lers. Eek. But what if the lee had a great time? It really is in the eye of the beholder (the lee) to me.
    "If life is a radio, TURN UP TO TEN!!!!" ~ KISS

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    485
    I both agree and have written about it myself:
    1.) 'Lers with no verbal teasing game are ignoring half the job, and the psychology happen to be the more interesting half.
    2.) The expression on the face of the 'ler is usually a better window into the authenticity of the moment than the face of the 'lee, because 'lers assume the audience isn't watching them.
    3.) Over time, I'm much more likely to follow the work of a great 'ler than the videos of a great 'lee. Don't you agree?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    124
    I agree! While have a good lee is important I think that the ler is equally as important and sometimes a truly great ler can turn a moderate lee into a great one. The best is when you find a lee and ler with an amazing dynamic together and they shoot multiple videos together.

  8. #8
    I prefer f/f exclusively for this reason. For me itís 50% the ler and 50% the lee. A good ler can make up for a disappointing lee (see Sasha Foxxx in ďEvil Tickle Witch).

    I hunt down her videos when I see a great ler as much as I do for a great lee.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    113
    Wow, I'm surprised to see everyone piling on. Maybe this is a sore point and under-addressed for some, so they're quick to chime in. But I suspect the distribution out there is mixed - like for so many things.

    I happen to largely disagree. I love to see hot girls get tickled. Their reactions excite me. I have little interest in the ler unless they meaningfully add to the experience. This can be the case! There are plenty of clips where the interplay makes it better or the ler is hot, into it, etc. But for me those are exceptions. Most of the time I like the physical tickling, and not much seeing/hearing the ler.

    Yes, OF COURSE, the lee's reactions also depend on the skill of the ler, their chemistry, etc. But that's not what I for one usually watch clips for.

    I just want to see cute sexy girls having a blast getting tickled to death and in some cases turned on. My focus is on them and their reactions, just like I talk about an excellent steak and its taste from a great dinner. Did it also depend on the chef, seasoning, etc.? Sure. But what I want to enjoy is the steak

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    2,041
    Quote Originally Posted by Tzing View Post
    But that's not what I for one usually watch clips for.
    While you're not wrong, what you're not getting is that if the tickler is a creepy, awkward twit who makes the model uncomfortable or otherwise turns the shoot into an un-fun slog then the model's reactions - and the video - are going to be shit.

    This often isn't as much of an issue with female ticklers because women don't (usually) creep out other women, but they often don't know how to tickle so while it's not quite as bad, it's still not as good as it could be. You could be the most ticklish model in the world but if your tickler insists on just drumming her fingers on your heel then the only way you're going to laugh from that is if you have some kind of neurological disorder.

    The tickler makes or breaks the video unless the model is completely dead from the neck down. I'm totes willing to die on that hill, given how many videos I've seen (and shot) at this point.

    Also dunno why you think we're "piling on".

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    113
    Great reply, thanks Phineas. First, "piling on" was the wrong phrasing. I just meant I was surprised to see so many agreeing, so vehemently, that we should focus on lers, and nobody else saying, "um, no..."

    Actually, think I do get what you thought I missed. But if the reactions are shit I won't watch to begin with. Even if they're great, if the tickler makes me feel a creepy rather than fun/hot vibe, I move on. This is why I hate masks that are scary or ugly, or creepy old lers (of either gender) tickling little hotties. Instantly ruins it for me.

    But in general, my experience is not about seeing the ler at all in most cases. Unless it's a hot girl who may also be of interest. For me, UK tickling produces pretty much an ideal style - so I've purchased tons of their clips!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    13,690
    All I have to add is that so many ticklers focus too much on harder touches. In my personal experience, most women seem to be more ticklish from a lighter touch.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Austin TX
    Posts
    268
    Blog Entries
    1
    Ember, fantastic question!!!!

    If the ler is unskilled and or doesn’t create a safe environment for the lee, the lee may not seem ticklish because who’d be sensitive if one is unsure about their play partner’s concern for them.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    40
    I appreciate your thoughts about this as I love alternative perspectives! Yes, the lees reactions are what make the video but I believe that a huge part of how she reacts is due to the Ler, bc as everyone is mentioning, if the Ler digs too hard they can cause pain, or, as SolesScream shared, they can create an uncomfortable environment. I also say this from personal experience, and as someone who shoots tickle content. So I am not saying to ignore the lee, because they are the focus in all content- but we also can't ignore the Ler.

    I also think we put a lot on the Lee, and I know I've felt that pressure. So let's share the love!

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    40
    Quote Originally Posted by MrMacphisto View Post
    All I have to add is that so many ticklers focus too much on harder touches. In my personal experience, most women seem to be more ticklish from a lighter touch.
    Yes!!! Lighter touches are so lethal!! I think so many Lers focus on what they want rather than what might get the best reactions out of the Lee.

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