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  1. #1
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    Thumbs up Pfizer Says Its Vaccine Targeting Omicron Will be Ready in March

    Some good news on the covid front!

    Last week, Omicron made up more than 95% of all new COVID-19 cases in the U.S., according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

    Pfizer will have a COVID-19 vaccine that specifically targets the Omicron variant ready by March, the pharmaceutical company's chief executive said Monday.
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-v...-paxlovid/#app

  2. #2
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    I think the army developed one will likely be more useful.

    It wouldn't be surprising if yet another variant becomes prevalent by March.

  3. #3
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    I've heard of the army vaccine, but I don't know much about it. It looks like they've attached spike proteins to nanoparticles. So rather than using mRNA to cause your own cells to make the spike protein, triggering the immune response, the spike protein is already present. I imagine that would be more stable than mRNA, but I'm not sure how it provides broader protection against future variants.

    “This vaccine stands out in the COVID-19 vaccine landscape,” Modjarrad said. “The repetitive and ordered display of the coronavirus spike protein on a multi-faced nanoparticle may stimulate immunity in such a way as to translate into significantly broader protection.”
    https://www.army.mil/article/252890/...pment_strategy

    There will likely be future variants, but one could imagine they will be more similar to Omicron than earlier versions. Original covid-19 is basically extinct at this point, having been outcompeted by delta, which in turn was outcompeted by omicron.

  4. #4
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    If you don't have a science background, don't speculate on what may or may not happen. This is how misinformation starts and gets distributed online.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdhd View Post
    If you don't have a science background, don't speculate on what may or may not happen. This is how misinformation starts and gets distributed online.
    Yes, we should only let Pfizer funded mainstream media and Pfizer connected doctors talk about the vaccine. Anything that goes against government, WHO, NIH, or Big Pharma narratives is "misinformation." Big Tech also knows what's best for us, which is why they will censor certain doctors like Dr. Malone.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensualswitch10 View Post
    I've heard of the army vaccine, but I don't know much about it. It looks like they've attached spike proteins to nanoparticles. So rather than using mRNA to cause your own cells to make the spike protein, triggering the immune response, the spike protein is already present. I imagine that would be more stable than mRNA, but I'm not sure how it provides broader protection against future variants.



    https://www.army.mil/article/252890/...pment_strategy

    There will likely be future variants, but one could imagine they will be more similar to Omicron than earlier versions. Original covid-19 is basically extinct at this point, having been outcompeted by delta, which in turn was outcompeted by omicron.
    The general premise behind the army vaccine is that each variant has a different spike protein structure. So, if you base your vaccine off of an array of spike protein structures rather than just one structure, then the antibody response is likely to be more comprehensive.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMacphisto View Post
    The general premise behind the army vaccine is that each variant has a different spike protein structure. So, if you base your vaccine off of an array of spike protein structures rather than just one structure, then the antibody response is likely to be more comprehensive.
    I wondered if there were different spike proteins incorporated in the nanoparticle. That wasn't made explicitly clear in the article, but would make sense.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdhd View Post
    If you don't have a science background, don't speculate on what may or may not happen. This is how misinformation starts and gets distributed online.
    I have a strong science background. I've spent the last 17 years working in pharma. Here is a citation to back up my claim.

    Top Things You Need to Know

    1. New variants of the virus are expected to occur.
    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...-variants.html

    People ought to use the brains they were born with and think critically about all subjects including the current pandemic, rather than blindly trusting "the experts".
    Last edited by Sensualswitch10; 01-15-2022 at 11:49 AM. Reason: Removed unnecessary commentary

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMacphisto View Post
    Yes, we should only let Pfizer funded mainstream media and Pfizer connected doctors talk about the vaccine. Anything that goes against government, WHO, NIH, or Big Pharma narratives is "misinformation." Big Tech also knows what's best for us, which is why they will censor certain doctors like Dr. Malone.
    They censor Malone because he's peddling misinformation. Source - https://www.politifact.com/article/2...s-vaccine-sci/

    "In June, he tweeted that a study showed that for every three lives the vaccines saved, they caused two deaths. But the journal that published the study later appended a note to it calling its main conclusion incorrect, and then retracted it entirely."

    "The same month, PolitiFact rated False a video featuring Malone that claimed the spike proteins generated after vaccination are toxic to cells. Other fact-checkers debunked his related claim in another video that the spike proteins often cause irreparable damage to children’s vital organs."

    "And he said on Fox News host Sean Hannity’s radio show that the vaccines "created a whole huge bunch of super spreaders. So the truth is, it's the unvaccinated that are at risk from the vaccinated." That’s False."

    "Speaking to Rogan, Malone said it’s "nucking futs" for people who have had COVID-19 to get vaccinated. He cited the federal Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, an unverified database that cannot be used to assess causality, and claimed that it shows an "explosion of vaccine-associated deaths." (It does not)"

    "He said hospitals are so financially incentivized to claim COVID-19 as the cause of patient deaths that a hypothetical patient "with a bullet hole to the head" would be ruled as a COVID-19 fatality if they tested positive. (This is wrong; if anything, research indicates that COVID-19 deaths have been undercounted.)"

    And it goes on from there.

    If you're already inclined to be anti-vax and believe conspiracies, then Malone is a great voice to support your existing belief system.

    But from a purely factual standpoint of trying to assess the truth of things, he's clearly a dubious source at best. And since this is a life and death pandemic, he gets booted from some social media platforms.

    And the idea that they're doing it because of some agenda, like a financial incentive, is really misguided because if you remember, they were happily allowing anyone to say anything for a very long time. It was public pressure that forced them to eventually start shutting down accounts that spread verifiably untrue claims. If it was up to twitter and facebook, who only care about clicks, they'd let everyone say anything they want about any topic.

    I'll agree that Big Pharma by itself is not a reliable source about the efficacy of their own products. But when you then throw in the entire media, the CDC, NIH, WHO, and the entire government, as all being part of the same conspiracy to make you take medicine that isn't actually good for you, you've gone down a very deep rabbit hole with a low level of probability.

    If you've ever heard of Occam's Razor, the principle that the explanation which requires the fewest assumptions is most likely to be the right one, in this case it would tell you that the reason over 90% of the experts in the world are telling people to get vaccinated is because it's the correct thing to do.

    It reminds me a little of 9/11 conspiracies. Sure, you can find an engineer or two around the world who will tell you that airplane fuel cannot melt steel beams. But the vast majority of them will explain how it happened, and show the math that got them there.

    Same thing here - you can find a FEW experts to contradict the vaccine science. But the vast majority of them will show the math that supports it.

    Everyone is obviously free to believe what they want. But there's not a lot of science or logic there to support it.

  10. #10
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    (response to a removed comment removed for clarity - Jeff)

    I really can't understand why the mods refuse to allow discussion of this topic. Threads get deleted, rather than locked or moved to P&R as is the normal convention when conversations become nasty or political.
    Last edited by TMF Jeff; 01-15-2022 at 01:31 PM.

  11. #11
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    The previous one was removed because someone asked for feedack on what people who've had the booster shot experienced, and the thread was hijacked into a debate about the vaccine in general.

    There was a lot of misinformation and inaccuracy but by the time it was brought to my attention it was too long for me to want to go through it with the fine-toothed comb it would have required.

    More generally - I don't mind people discussing the vaccine but the TMF isn't going to host misinformation. If things drift too far into unverifiable conspiracy claims, or verifiably untrue statements, I'm going to take action.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by TMF Jeff View Post
    The previous one was removed because someone asked for feedack on what people who've had the booster shot experienced, and the thread was hijacked into a debate about the vaccine in general.

    There was a lot of misinformation and inaccuracy but by the time it was brought to my attention it was too long for me to want to go through it with the fine-toothed comb it would have required.
    Thank you for the explanation Jeff. I had started to believe we are not allowed to discuss covid (which is a subject on virtually everyone's mind right now).

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by TMF Jeff View Post
    They censor Malone because he's peddling misinformation. Source - https://www.politifact.com/article/2...s-vaccine-sci/

    "In June, he tweeted that a study showed that for every three lives the vaccines saved, they caused two deaths. But the journal that published the study later appended a note to it calling its main conclusion incorrect, and then retracted it entirely."

    "The same month, PolitiFact rated False a video featuring Malone that claimed the spike proteins generated after vaccination are toxic to cells. Other fact-checkers debunked his related claim in another video that the spike proteins often cause irreparable damage to children’s vital organs."

    "And he said on Fox News host Sean Hannity’s radio show that the vaccines "created a whole huge bunch of super spreaders. So the truth is, it's the unvaccinated that are at risk from the vaccinated." That’s False."

    "Speaking to Rogan, Malone said it’s "nucking futs" for people who have had COVID-19 to get vaccinated. He cited the federal Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, an unverified database that cannot be used to assess causality, and claimed that it shows an "explosion of vaccine-associated deaths." (It does not)"

    "He said hospitals are so financially incentivized to claim COVID-19 as the cause of patient deaths that a hypothetical patient "with a bullet hole to the head" would be ruled as a COVID-19 fatality if they tested positive. (This is wrong; if anything, research indicates that COVID-19 deaths have been undercounted.)"

    And it goes on from there.

    If you're already inclined to be anti-vax and believe conspiracies, then Malone is a great voice to support your existing belief system.

    But from a purely factual standpoint of trying to assess the truth of things, he's clearly a dubious source at best. And since this is a life and death pandemic, he gets booted from some social media platforms.

    And the idea that they're doing it because of some agenda, like a financial incentive, is really misguided because if you remember, they were happily allowing anyone to say anything for a very long time. It was public pressure that forced them to eventually start shutting down accounts that spread verifiably untrue claims. If it was up to twitter and facebook, who only care about clicks, they'd let everyone say anything they want about any topic.

    I'll agree that Big Pharma by itself is not a reliable source about the efficacy of their own products. But when you then throw in the entire media, the CDC, NIH, WHO, and the entire government, as all being part of the same conspiracy to make you take medicine that isn't actually good for you, you've gone down a very deep rabbit hole with a low level of probability.

    If you've ever heard of Occam's Razor, the principle that the explanation which requires the fewest assumptions is most likely to be the right one, in this case it would tell you that the reason over 90% of the experts in the world are telling people to get vaccinated is because it's the correct thing to do.

    It reminds me a little of 9/11 conspiracies. Sure, you can find an engineer or two around the world who will tell you that airplane fuel cannot melt steel beams. But the vast majority of them will explain how it happened, and show the math that got them there.

    Same thing here - you can find a FEW experts to contradict the vaccine science. But the vast majority of them will show the math that supports it.

    Everyone is obviously free to believe what they want. But there's not a lot of science or logic there to support it.
    From a purely factual standpoint, fact checking sites have been determined in court to not actually be factual. https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2021/...-just-opinion/

    In short, fact checking sites are merely opinion and often slanted opinions against anything that goes against mainstream narratives.

    This isn't a "life and death pandemic" either, but a lot of people have certainly let governments manipulate them into thinking that while giving them broad powers. Australia is the most blatant example of this.

    If you really think Twitter isn't politically biased, you haven't been following what they've done over the years in censoring conservatives while letting far leftists say whatever they want.

    As far as Facebook goes, most of the "pressure" they received came from corporate interests like certain media figures and from activist politicians. By the time COVID appeared, they were already in the habit of censoring things to fit various agendas, both with regard to Big Pharma and even the election (like the censoring of anything to do with Hunter's laptop). https://greenwald.substack.com/p/art...biden-censored

    I'm well aware of Occam's Razor, but the world we live in has been controlled by a relatively small group of elites for a while. The conglomeration of power became much easier due to various developments like the creation of the EU and the fact that Blackrock owns a significant portion of nearly every major company in the world.

    This doesn't mean that the elites always agree with each other, but at least in the West, Wall Street runs the show, and Big Pharma is big money for them.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensualswitch10 View Post
    Yeeeeeeeah, well, I've watched at least 6 or 7 YouTube videos myself, so I think I'm pretty much an expert as well. We just stopped believing in it like our neighbors to the South. "If it ain't in the Bible, is it real?" CHECKMATE, SCIENCE!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrMacphisto View Post
    From a purely factual standpoint, fact checking sites have been determined in court to not actually be factual. https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2021/...-just-opinion/
    I don't want this to become one of those threads where two people endlessly go back and forth over the same ground.

    But the link you used to prove that fact checking sites are not factual doesn't say anything close to that, which is a huge problem for me as both a person who cares about accuracy, and as the owner of this site. What it says is that facebook admitted that their fact checkers are based on opinion. And that's undoubtedly true and not something most people would have trouble believing because facebook is a shithole of a company and website.

    But what it doesn't say is what you claimed before linking to it. And that's playing dirty pool because you're acting like you have a source and then linking to something only vaguely related to your statement.

    In a normal political argument, that wouldn't be a huge deal. But this is, despite your personal take on it, a life and death pandemic, and I'm not going to let people use the TMF to spread misinformation about it.

    I'm not going to delete your post because it was in response to me directly. But to put as fine a point on it as possible - if you repeat that, I will delete it.

    If you want to debate it with me personally, you're welcome to message me, but before I change my policy you'll have to have some pretty rock-solid sources for your claims. A lot more solid than you saying "See, fact checking sites are not factual" and then linking to an article that isn't even about a fact checking site. (Facebook is a social media site that employs "fact checkers," as opposed to, for example, politico, which is a site that only does fact checking and uses transparency about why they reached a conclusion.)

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