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Creepy lers ruining it for everyone.

saratk

TMF Master
Joined
Oct 21, 2002
Messages
832
Points
18
So, it’s pretty mainstream and in conversation with those outside our community that when people talk about a “foot fetish”, it equates creepiness. I do not think at all it is people judging the interest, but the behavior. There are a wide range of “different” interests out there that people don’t have that judgement attached to, and it’s because some lers of foot fetishists make it weird and don’t get consent!

I heard a story from a friend a couple of years ago how her guy friend not only LICKED her foot but also would touch it all the time when he got a chance and he would say “I’m just a touchy person.” COME ON. no one believes it. You didn’t “succeed” and now you have a memory to share… you touched a girl you are not dating without her consent. Not ok. I cringe every time I see the videos on YouTube of a guy manipulating a girl into thinking he’s doing a study or something just to get a chance to record himself touching her feet for his spank bank later. How is any of this viewed as ok? Again it makes the rest of us who want to introduce foot play or tickling to our consenting partners more nervous because of the stigma. End rant
 
To start with a side point... I'm into tickling, but do not have a foot fetish. That said, my take is the foot fetish acceptance is ahead of tickling fetish acceptance.

First, the vast majority of Americans have heard of a foot fetish, while the majority have not heard of a tickling fetish. Second, I personally know several normie girls, whom I met in "real life," who've begun their own Only Fans feet pages. They do it for the money only, as a non-porn, non-nudity way to make easy cash and not because of any sexual interest of their own. And while one of them I know still privately laughs at the guys who want that kind of content, talking about it at all is how acceptance begins. Tickling likely has both fewer devotees, and fewer conversations about it.

But turning to the OP, I'd disagree that creepy guys touching feet unexpectedly is the root of why the average person still thinks of foot fetishes as weird. Pick any sexual proclivity, and there are guys inappropriately pushing boundaries. A guy stealing a kiss from a girl who didn't want it hasn't made kissing as a concept creepy. They perceive foot fetishes as weird because of the small percentage in the population into it, combined with the fact that many people consider feet smelly, sweaty and gross.

Put another way, I don't think the mainstream community generally associates foot fetishists with non-consensual behavior. If anything, it's considered more like a harmless oddity than predatory touching.
 
Guys can be creepy in general and not just about feet. We generally fall into 3 categories. The outright creep, as outlined in your OP. The "nice guy" who has learned to pretend to play nice until they can get what they really want (and show their true colors upon rejection). And the normal, non-creep.

I don't think men into feet or tickling are creepier about it than people into other kinks or vanilla interests. You can't control or worry about what other people are doing to "ruin it" for the rest of us. If someone wants to judge your kink based on the actions of others instead of being open minded to it based on how they perceive you as individual and your merits, then it's their loss. They weren't meant for you anyway.

No need to throw a whole group of people under the bus. Of course there are bad apples, but if you're a good one, you'll find a good one.
 
So, it’s pretty mainstream and in conversation with those outside our community that when people talk about a “foot fetish”, it equates creepiness. I do not think at all it is people judging the interest, but the behavior. There are a wide range of “different” interests out there that people don’t have that judgement attached to, and it’s because some lers of foot fetishists make it weird and don’t get consent!

I heard a story from a friend a couple of years ago how her guy friend not only LICKED her foot but also would touch it all the time when he got a chance and he would say “I’m just a touchy person.” COME ON. no one believes it. You didn’t “succeed” and now you have a memory to share… you touched a girl you are not dating without her consent. Not ok. I cringe every time I see the videos on YouTube of a guy manipulating a girl into thinking he’s doing a study or something just to get a chance to record himself touching her feet for his spank bank later. How is any of this viewed as ok? Again it makes the rest of us who want to introduce foot play or tickling to our consenting partners more nervous because of the stigma. End rant

I agree with this 100%
 
I’m with 200% the creepy/aggressive guys in the community have made it extremely tough to just even have conversations which I understand totally. I’ve stopped reaching out to people I’ll simply leave a nice post if I’m available to chat if you want to reach out I love making new friends :) . If someone wants to speak I found that they will reach out to you. Creepy, weird, aggressive messages isn’t the way to talk to ANYONE.
 
Sara....i'm completely with you and have felt this way for ages. Especially in more recent years when i've seen things like that one jack ass that has videos all over Youtube pulling cons on women in public stores, etc with the foot stuff (lord knows what his story is that cons them into doing it). It's disgusting and makes me almost ashamed to have a foot tickle fetish.
 
From my observations, the word "creep" is overly used. I think a good number of people that are labeled creep are socially awkward. Plus people are so quick to judge to make themselves feel better. Furthermore, there is a gigantic load of double standards. In many cases, you would have 2 different men that can do the exact same thing, however, but one dude would be okay and the other would not depending whether or not they were liked and accepted. Alot of times people get judged based on their appearance and other things.

Plus some of the cruelty and bad judgments are just a cover for people's fetishes as they might get embarrassed or ridiculouled.

Yes I do believe that misrepresentation can happen in any facet of life, however, it bulls down to awkward behaviors by and large. The interest(s) for the most part do not play a role in this.

On a side note where people communicate mainly online, they kind of forget to handle social situations in real life time and space.
 
From my observations, the word "creep" is overly used. I think a good number of people that are labeled creep are socially awkward. Plus people are so quick to judge to make themselves feel better. Furthermore, there is a gigantic load of double standards. In many cases, you would have 2 different men that can do the exact same thing, however, but one dude would be okay and the other would not depending whether or not they were liked and accepted. Alot of times people get judged based on their appearance and other things.

Plus some of the cruelty and bad judgments are just a cover for people's fetishes as they might get embarrassed or ridiculouled.

Yes I do believe that misrepresentation can happen in any facet of life, however, it bulls down to awkward behaviors by and large. The interest(s) for the most part do not play a role in this.

On a side note where people communicate mainly online, they kind of forget to handle social situations in real life time and space.

Attractiveness impacting social interaction isn't a double standard, it's just natural behavior. If someone is physically attractive, a recipient of their attention is more likely to respond favorably (even then, what's attractive varies from person to person).

There's a difference between an awkward pickup line and taking creepshots of women's feet in the park.
Also, newsflash: most women are completely okay with fetishes (especially this one), as long as you like to do something they like, too.
Like actually having sex sex.
 
If we’re being honest, aren’t the creeps, especially the foot ones (though armpit is gaining traction), ruining it for everyone in general? Not just lers or thirsty lees, but all the creeps are the problem. We all become creeps if we step outside the vanilla zone. Even vanilla creeps are coded or categorized as weirdos. Kinkshaming aside, it’s mostly because of “that guy”. You know, “that guy”. Don’t be “that guy”. But as long as they are out there, it’s gonna be a looming shadow over all of us.
 
Nah, if you message me and the first thing you say is “what would you do if I started tickling your cock” you’re a creep. Very few times has someone messaged me and not started with some gross, aggressive message. That makes me not want to talk to anyone
 
Nah, if you message me and the first thing you say is “what would you do if I started tickling your cock” you’re a creep. Very few times has someone messaged me and not started with some gross, aggressive message. That makes me not want to talk to anyone
 
This all comes down to lack of communication and lack of acceptance. Some guys are just plain gross, I try to be super respectful at all times. I always ask if I can massage a ladies feet in public if I catch a beautiful pair, but even if it's a friend I do that too. Most women would never say no to a foot rub offer.
Having said that, I also feel that creepy guys and creepy girls (they do exist, just rare) are sometimes formed by a lack of acceptance and feeling that everyone already thinks they're creepy, which desensitized them from the social cues they receive from people in response, also making them feel they can just message everyone the creepy thing they like and eventually someone may accept it.
That doesn't make it right, just trying to put a thoughtful mind towards it in devils advocate, and I'd never do it myself. Just some brain food
 
I've been a card-carrying Foot Guy for nearly forty years. (I'm serious. I have a card.) I also make the occasional bit of fetish content, so I interact with both normies and models in a fetish context. The only part of this thread that has any merit is the guy theorizing about why people become creepy, and the other guy noting potential double standards in interactions. It's quite true that missteps and the reaction of the person being approached all factor into the development of one's self image, but as was noted;

Wolf said:
There's a difference between an awkward pickup line and taking creepshots of women's feet in the park.

In my many yurrs dealing with this fetish I have discovered that the biggest issue guys (and let's face it, this is almost uniquely a guy problem because Reasons) have is that they do something ridiculously creepy or otherwise inappropriate and then when their mark reacts badly they assume "well, people don't like my fetish". No, dude, people don't like YOU. There any many, many constructive and healthy ways to express one's fetish to the outside world. These guys never learn it, and they're already ashamed of themselves for having it so they erroneously assume that she freaked out because OMG FEET and not because they caught the clown following them and taking creepshots for r/jailbait. We see it here all the time, some clown posts a thread about how best to chloroform his neighbor and when he (rightfully) gets pushback, he defaults to "I thought we were here to talk about tickling!". I mean, call me crazy but tickling involves touching people and making them go "hahaha stahp", not the shit you're trying to do. Why do people confuse them I'll never understand.

I have very, very rarely dealt with any kind of nuclear rejection over my foot fetish, even as a dork-ass-tastic teenager who didn't know social norms from a Pop-Tart... as long as - and this is key - it was approached respectfully and non-creepily. Furthermore, no woman I have ever met had any kind of bad reaction to it beyond "eh, it's not my thing". They also have never conflated me with some weird creep licking their feet in the park, because by the time we're having the "foot talk", they already know me as a person and they know I'm not a creep.

This is the big issue this community faces; y'all don't see women as people, y'all see them as a goal. "I saw a woman at a gas station, how can I tickle her feet?" "I have this vague acquaintance who doesn't know me from Adam, how can I tickle her feet?" "I have a casual friendship with a woman I've never even been remotely intimate with, how can I convince her to let me tie her down naked and slather her in baby oil?"

It's like y'all want to jump directly from 0 to 10 without realizing there's a bunch of numbers in between. Even guys who can get "action" right away start small and gradually escalate, they don't jump right to "hey I wanna bang you in the back of my Ford", they at least buy her a drink and pretend to give a shit about her day first.

And besides, if someone is going to immediately slap a negative label on you, someone she doesn't know, because of something someone else did? It's not you, and it's not your fetish. Some people also are like, "I got mugged by a black guy so all black people are sus". Does that sound right to you? "I got licked in the park, all feet people are creeps". Same thing. "Oh, but enough are that it's an issue!". No, those are just the ones forcing you to interact with them. Y'know, like the muggers.

TL;DR - grow some social skills and some self esteem and stop flagellating yourself over shit you didn't do. Get therapy if you think it'd help. You're not those "creepy lers'" keeper, and if someone is willing to lump you in with them, that's not someone you want in your life.
 
I think that creepy people (not exclusively men) make lots of things uncomfortable.
If one creep is disrespectful and weird regarding feet, armpits or anything else that comes to mind... it doesn't ruin anything.

Here is why I think this:

The 1951 novel The Catcher in the Rye by J. D. Salinger has been linked to many murders - however this does not mean that people who enjoyed this book, or read it at any point in their life... are going to murder us. We can probably agree on that.

Throughout history there are foot fetishists who have been creepy and disrespectful - similar to the above, this does not mean that people who are foot fetishists, or have experienced feet sexually at any point in their life... are going to be creepy and disrespectful. I think we also agree on this fact.

So in my opinion, while there are people out there who think people who read The Catcher in the Rye are triggered to be murderers... and that people who have foot fetishists are going to be creeps... I think that those people aren't very smart and therefore I wouldn't want to play with them anyway... so the only thing ruined is my chance of playing with someone who I am not interested in anyway.
 
There is a definite problem with people over stepping the mark with our fetish. Being into what we are, seeing instances of creepy behaviour seem more obvious than with other fetishes. But even still feet and tickling fetish seem to get more of a bad reputation than other fetishes.

It doesn't help that in film and TV more often than not foot fetish tends to portrayed as creepy and weird. Likewise articles in the news usually have negative connotations and lean towards ridicule.

I think as well in the last few years there's much more awareness with regards to fetish mining and vanilla people are more aware of what they share online. 10 years ago on YouTube there would be quite a lot of mainstream tickle videos, now there's next to nothing because people are aware posting videos of them tickling a friend or being tickled themselves is going to have them bombarded with guys saying the usual stuff:
"Do another video but tickle her feet, without socks!"
"Your friend should tickle you next time"
"I'd love to tie you down and tickle you senseless"
It's the same with the question sites like curious cat you'd always see girls getting asked if they are ticklish, then where are they ticklish, before delving into various scenarios which were always pretty inappropriate.

Guys just have no boundaries in many cases and the lack of awareness and self control just ruins it for the majority.
 
To start with a side point... I'm into tickling, but do not have a foot fetish. That said, my take is the foot fetish acceptance is ahead of tickling fetish acceptance.

First, the vast majority of Americans have heard of a foot fetish, while the majority have not heard of a tickling fetish. Second, I personally know several normie girls, whom I met in "real life," who've begun their own Only Fans feet pages. They do it for the money only, as a non-porn, non-nudity way to make easy cash and not because of any sexual interest of their own. And while one of them I know still privately laughs at the guys who want that kind of content, talking about it at all is how acceptance begins. Tickling likely has both fewer devotees, and fewer conversations about it.

But turning to the OP, I'd disagree that creepy guys touching feet unexpectedly is the root of why the average person still thinks of foot fetishes as weird. Pick any sexual proclivity, and there are guys inappropriately pushing boundaries. A guy stealing a kiss from a girl who didn't want it hasn't made kissing as a concept creepy. They perceive foot fetishes as weird because of the small percentage in the population into it, combined with the fact that many people consider feet smelly, sweaty and gross.

Put another way, I don't think the mainstream community generally associates foot fetishists with non-consensual behavior. If anything, it's considered more like a harmless oddity than predatory touching.

Actually, ther percentage of guys into feet is much higher than most imagine. I wish I had the link, but a bunch of studies showed that upwards of 50% of men are attracted to feet and it is more common than not.

The issue is most of these men are ashamed to admit it or to engage in activities they want to do. I think the same probably goes for all fetishes... the statistics are probably way higher, guys just watch fetish porn instead of being open with their partners about it, if they have had any at all.
 
I've been thinking on this subject a lot, lately. I resonate with Phineas' answer the most. In my observations, a lot of the creepy people are typically socially awkward, with poor impulse control, and are in the habit of objectifying women(because it's mostly men doing the behaviors) as a goal for their own sexual gratification. That last ones a kick to the gut cause damn, the way some of these dudes talk, you'd think the person they were speaking with was just a pair of feet.
Like, there's a person attached to those, and you should probably get to know her.
 
I think it's safe say the following:

1. Everyone has some solid feedback for this matter. I dare say that most people on this thread has been challenged in ways on how they view things.
2. The knowledge that we have exceeds our understanding. Then when it comes wisdom everyone has different approaches, some are good and some are neutral and some are bad.
3. I think that in half of cases for these so called creeps, they have a desire to be validated. So they may not know how to break the ice when it comes to fetishes in general. A subject manner that seems more personal and private, unlike playing a sport. Low confidence and the lack of self respect, in my opinion, is the ultimate fertilizer for socially awkward behaviors and/or creepy behaviors.
4. Now if it's over confidence with any amount arrogance, then it's not creepy it's darn out right disrespect.


What are suggestions for people who want to break the ice and engage in their fetish? How can the unwise, wise up?
 
So, it’s pretty mainstream and in conversation with those outside our community that when people talk about a “foot fetish”, it equates creepiness. I do not think at all it is people judging the interest, but the behavior.

I have to disagree. Some people just think a fetish is gross or weird, or creepy. You could be the nicest, most gentle person in the world and tell your partner that you're into bondage, and tickling, and it might creep them out. Some people are very "vanilla", and anything out of traditional sex is strange behavior to them.

For example a lot of people think feet are gross. They associate them with being dirty, and if that turns you on it's "weird".

A lot of people are becoming more open to fetishes but some are still creeped out by it.

Guys just have no boundaries in many cases and the lack of awareness and self control just ruins it for the majority.

this is not true. There are some guys who are like this. The "many" cases you speak of are the extreme minority. In my opinion the vast majority of people who have a foot fetish probably don't ever tell anyone, and keep it secret out of fear. They are the silent majority. They are afraid of being judged, and keep quiet.
 
Creepy guys don't ruin anything for anyone. If that were the case, it'd almost be impossible to get women to do anything sexual. Besides, what women consider to be a "creep" is circumstantial. They generally consider something to be "creepy behavior" if it's from a guy they have zero sexual attraction to.
 
Creepy guys don't ruin anything for anyone. If that were the case, it'd almost be impossible to get women to do anything sexual. Besides, what women consider to be a "creep" is circumstantial. They generally consider something to be "creepy behavior" if it's from a guy they have zero sexual attraction to.

Nah, there's quite a bit of legitimate creepiness out there. Not that I can speak for them, but ask any woman who's...well, a woman.
Plenty of women don't find me the least bit attractive, but no one's ever acted like I was creepy.
Because I don't act like a creep.
 
Lmao I'm a guy and I've met some pretty creepy male lers. Doesn't really help when they're some old ler that fetishizes your rather young age group and pressure you to "accept their experience" or in another case, getting really creepy with a racist "exotic Asian" fetish...
 
Because I don't act like a creep.

Nah. This is a tautology and self-sealing argument wrapped all up in one.

I've directly experienced/witnessed people calling harmless/normal behavior "creepy" for purely random or otherwise inaccurate, for lack of a better term, reasons. I've also seen the extents to which people (of all genders) will lie or misrepresent the truth in order to make themselves look like the good guy. (And yes, before you get all "aaaactually" on me, I realize this applies to the creeps as well). Thing is, there is literally no defense for someone who has had this happen because when it does, all you have to do is either construct a tautology/non-argument ("How was I being creepy?" "You just were.") or gaslight them and accuse them of either lying or not actually understanding what happened, in spite of them being there and you not.

Basically, doesn't matter whether you were actually creepy or not. They can call you that and boom, argument's done. You're now in a Kafkta-trap whereby the more you protest your innocence the more people will take it as proof that you actually did something wrong.

"Nobody does that!"

Yes. Yes, they do. Ask any photographer. There is a loud, vocal group of people who insist that "taking pictures of people in public is creepy". Not taking creepshots, not taking upskirts, completely legal innocuous shit like panoramas or cityscapes or stuff. Anything that involves people. I've read the discussions (and the threats) from people who say that if they see anyone trying to take their picture in public they're going to "smash the camera". Google Glass had its beta test cancelled because people were assaulting the wearers on the mere suspicion that they might be filming.

Aside over, carry on.

On topic, I think that the guys going out with cameras and harassing women for YouTube do not have "poor impulse control". They're aggressive assholes who've learned that they can bully women into doing what they want in public. That takes calculated thought. The guys who spam garbage in random women's DMs n' shit are probably impulse control wrapped up in the safety of the Internet. If these guys actually had a healthy outlet for their fetish other than communities of creepers on the Internet they might be less inclined to go to the lengths that they do.
 
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