Here's A Thought ...

Since professional wrestling ... y'know , all the WWE stuff ... is less "sport" & more "silly" , let's from now on post any & all threads pertaining to it in the TMF Silly Stuff Forum & keep it out of the TMF Sports Forum. I think it'd be more appropriate that way.

C'mon ... who's w/me?


😛




( lol ... oh , all the wrestling fans are gonna love me now )

wrestling is real! how dare you!

The stuff those guys go through to get to the level that they are at is the same kind of training that any other professional athlete goes through. As well, unlike any other professional sport, pro wrestlers don't get an off-season to recover.

*gets off soapbox*

Snail Shell

they beat the shit outta their bodies for 300 days a year and hardly ever get days off.. old pro wrestlers have a hard time walking and dont make anywhere near the money of football players.. its much more a sport than you think.. just because the ending is already known by them doesnt mean the pain isnt real... you should read one of mick foley's book and you can get an idea of what these guys go through on a daily basis... working 5 days a week and traveling all across the country takes it toll.. i mean football players have terrible games and then complain and say it was becasue of the travel.. while wwe wrestlers travel across the country 2 or 3 times a week

punkrockergirl said:

they beat the shit outta their bodies for 300 days a year and hardly ever get days off.. old pro wrestlers have a hard time walking and dont make anywhere near the money of football players.. its much more a sport than you think.. just because the ending is already known by them doesnt mean the pain isnt real... you should read one of mick foley's book and you can get an idea of what these guys go through on a daily basis... working 5 days a week and traveling all across the country takes it toll.. i mean football players have terrible games and then complain and say it was becasue of the travel.. while wwe wrestlers travel across the country 2 or 3 times a week

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Well said. I have nothing more to add.

Snail Shell said:

The stuff those guys go through to get to the level that they are at is the same kind of training that any other professional athlete goes through.

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Yeah , yeah ... they can use anabolic steroids & other performance-enhancing substances just as well as any other professional athlete to "get to the level that they're at" ... & I realize that there's tons of work & training that goes into it all ... & I know their bodies must go through a lot of punishment what w/all of the slamming onto the mat & what-not & all the travel & blah blah blah ... yeah , yeah , yeah.

I get all that. I don't dispute the physical prowess of these "wrestlers" ... & despite the predetermined outcomes of matches , I fully realize that these guys really do get hurt once in a while.

Still , though , even you folks have to consider these guys to be more entertainers than athletes ... that they're acting in a theatre-type setting & putting on a show rather than competing in a sport?

W/all of the silly gimmicks & silly costumes & silly makeup & silly names & "good guy" wrestlers vs. "bad guy" wrestlers ( I mean , c'mon ... seriously?! ) , you Hulkamaniacs have to concede that the whole charade is just plain silly.

Therefore , I move to have all wrestling-related discussions/threads ... er , moved.

... to the Silly Stuff Forum! ... where they can live & play amongst other discussions/threads that are more like they are! ... so they don't have to seem so out of place here , in the Sports Forum.


😛

I will simply ask for people who comment on the fakeness\sillyness\what have you

WHO ever said it was real? It was you(media\world) who said it was fake

Although I haven't been a wrestling fan since middle school (I was a real Hulkamaniac in my younger days) wrestlers bodies do go through a lot. Not to mention they get screwed over at seemingly every turn by Vince McMahon (who apparently is a bit of a douche). All this, I believe, deserves respect on some level even if the violence isn't "real".

It's at least as much of a sport as Gymnastics, which, in all honesty, is essentially what it is. You wanna talk about stuff not being sports, I think NASCAR makes a more sound debate... although that is a topic for another thread.

WayTooD said:

... wrestlers bodies do go through a lot.

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Yeah , they do. But so do ballet dancers' bodies ... doesn't mean I want to start including them in sports discussions.

WayTooD said:

All this, I believe, deserves respect on some level even if the violence isn't "real".

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Even though it ( obviously ) ain't my thing , I'll say that professional wrestling does deserve some level of respect in the world of entertainment ... not sports.

WayTooD said:

It's at least as much of a sport as Gymnastics, which, in all honesty, is essentially what it is.

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I disagree. While there may be some similarities , at least w/gymnastics , there is competition! ... & I think that's the bottom line here.

One of the best things about sports is watching opponents compete against one another until there is a winner. Professional wrestling's scripted matches , theatrics , & soap opera antics don't supply that ... not really.

WayTooD said:

You wanna talk about stuff not being sports, I think NASCAR makes a more sound debate... although that is a topic for another thread.

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I would listen to that. I am by no means a fan of NASCAR , & I think that watching cars drive around in circles for hours is dumb & a complete waste of time.

Still , though ... drivers are competing against one another & , to me , that's why it belongs in a sports discussion ... much more so than professional wrestling.

TKLMAN said:

Yeah , they do. But so do ballet dancers' bodies ... doesn't mean I want to start including them in sports discussions.



Even though it ( obviously ) ain't my thing , I'll say that professional wrestling does deserve some level of respect in the world of entertainment ... not sports.



I disagree. While there may be some similarities , at least w/gymnastics , there is competition! ... & I think that's the bottom line here.

One of the best things about sports is watching opponents compete against one another until there is a winner. Professional wrestling's scripted matches , theatrics , & soap opera antics don't supply that ... not really.



I would listen to that. I am by no means a fan of NASCAR , & I think that watching cars drive around in circles for hours is dumb & a complete waste of time.

Still , though ... drivers are competing against one another & , to me , that's why it belongs in a sports discussion ... much more so than professional wrestling.

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So then if you are just shooting around by yourself, or just playing toss\batting practice, you are not participating in a sport if you are not competing?

You can say dog\horse racing isnt a sport then since they are not actually running but the animals are

wether or not you think its a sport it is world wide recognized as a sport... hence calling it sports entertainment.. vince mcmahon has to pay taxes for arena's because he is running a sporting event.. i just read an article on it, vince could not pay the taxes if he removed sport from the name but he refuses... as its evident your not a wrestling fan it doesnt matter, but until you start making the descion of what is a sport for the world... or even for the forum, its a sport

punkrockergirl said:

wether or not you think its a sport it is world wide recognized as a sport... hence calling it sports entertainment.. vince mcmahon has to pay taxes for arena's because he is running a sporting event.. i just read an article on it, vince could not pay the taxes if he removed sport from the name but he refuses... as its evident your not a wrestling fan it doesnt matter, but until you start making the descion of what is a sport for the world... or even for the forum, its a sport

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Also pro wrestling is bound to the laws of the local state athletic foundations

Its a reason why ecw could not do exploding matches, because athletic authorities would not allow it indoors

LOL Oh , You Silly , Silly Wrestling-Fans ...

Okay , first of all ... I never stated that I think professional wrestling is not a sport at all , just that it is MORE "silly" & LESS "sport".

I mean , yes ... technically , The Jerry Springer Show is a talk show , but it's definitely more "trash" than it is "talk show" ... & at the same time , I think we would all agree that it doesn't belong in the same conversation as other "credible" talk shows like The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson , Late Show with David Letterman , The Oprah Winfrey Show , Charlie Rose , etc.

So ... due to its extreme silliness , vast amounts of fakeness , & heaping portions of cheesy , soap operatic storylines , I simply teased all you fans of WWE & the like by suggesting that professional wrestling doesn't belong in the same conversation as other legitimate sports & it would be more appropriate to move all professional wrestling discussion to the Silly Stuff Forum.

So far , every argument seems to be ( desperately ) trying to validate pro wrestling's value as an authentic sport , but no one's really taken on the 'silly' aspect. Hmmmm ... I wonder why?

Now ... quick , Robin! ... to the Response Pole!

Goodieluver said:

So then if you are just shooting around by yourself, or just playing toss\batting practice, you are not participating in a sport if you are not competing?

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Mmmno , I wouldn't say that. Shooting around , playing toss , & participating in batting practice are activities that are aspects of their respective sports ... not really "sports" in & of themselves.

Goodieluver said:

You can say dog\horse racing isnt a sport then since they are not actually running but the animals are

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I wouldn't say that , either. Who said people are the only ones who can participate in sports? All you did here was mention two sports that happen to not involve humans as the primary competitors.

Polo is a sport played by human riders on horseback. Yeah? ... and?

punkrockergirl said:

wether or not you think its a sport it is world wide recognized as a sport ...

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Actually , I think "the world" is w/me on this one. Watch SportsCenter sometime ... heck , watch any sports news television show ... know why you don't see wrestling highlights on any of 'em?

*leans closer & whispers*

... 'cause they don't consider professional wrestling to be a legitimate sport , either.

punkrockergirl said:

... hence calling it sports entertainment ...

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LOL I think you used the bold font on the wrong word. You shoulda wrote it this way :

sports entertainment

punkrockergirl said:

... vince mcmahon has to pay taxes for arena's because he is running a sporting event.. i just read an article on it, vince could not pay the taxes if he removed sport from the name but he refuses ...

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I never heard of this & I'm not familiar w/it , but you say you read an article on it , so I'll take you at your word. Still , though , this argument has little *oomph* to it.

A. Vince McMahon can afford to pay those taxes.

B. Him doing so does more for the "crediblity" of his product than it would if he were to remove the word 'sport' from it. His company benefits by affiliating its product w/real & authentic sports. Ergo ... it's a better business decision for Vince McMahon to leave the word 'sports' in the name than it is for him to remove it.

punkrockergirl said:

... as its evident your not a wrestling fan it doesnt matter, but until you start making the descion of what is a sport for the world ...

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Ummmm ... huh?

Yeah , you're probably right. The chances of me being appointed to some sort of post in the World Sports Authority are probably pretty slim.

Boy , ya got me there.

punkrockergirl said:

... or even for the forum ...

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See above.

punkrockergirl said:

... its a sport

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Not a genuine one , though. 😛

Goodieluver said:

Also pro wrestling is bound to the laws of the local state athletic foundations

Its a reason why ecw could not do exploding matches, because athletic authorities would not allow it indoors

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Not sure if this really means anything.

If the circus ... or a rock concert ... or a monster truck show ... or whatever ... comes to town & needs the use of an arena or a similar facility , I'm pretty sure that there are guidelines & laws that must be followed by any event pertaining to the use of pyrothechnics.




By the way , just so everyone knows ... I'm just razzin' y'all a little. Do I really think all pro wrestling talk should be held in the Silly Stuff Forum ...? Well , maybe lol ... but do I expect you guys to move it there or for the mods to have it moved there ...? Of course not! You guys like what you like & that's fine & I really don't have an issue w/it being in the Sports Forum. I am , though , all for some good-natured ribbing. Hope that's alright w/you.

TKLMAN said:

I disagree. While there may be some similarities , at least w/gymnastics , there is competition! ... & I think that's the bottom line here.

One of the best things about sports is watching opponents compete against one another until there is a winner. Professional wrestling's scripted matches , theatrics , & soap opera antics don't supply that ... not really.

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You're point is well taken. As I said, I am no longer a fan of pro-wrestling as it just seemed silly once I got older, however, real injuries do occur and it involves a good deal of athleticism. I agree though, the part where it's all scripted does kind of negate it being a real sport.

TKLMAN said:

Yeah , they do. But so do ballet dancers' bodies ... doesn't mean I want to start including them in sports discussions.

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Going back to this ballet comparison for a sec , I looked up the definition of the word in the dictionary & it goes a little somethin' like this :

ballet - a theatrical art form using dancing , music , and scenery to convey a story , theme , or atmosphere


Hmmmmm ... what does that sound like? 😛

TKLMAN said:

Going back to this ballet comparison for a sec , I looked up the definition of the word in the dictionary & it goes a little somethin' like this :

ballet - a theatrical art form using dancing , music , and scenery to convey a story , theme , or atmosphere


Hmmmmm ... what does that sound like? 😛

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Rhythmic gymnastics is then not a sport?

It seems the main thing you say is competing against another

By that definition, you are saying online video gaming is a sport and street skating isnt a sport

Goodieluver said:

Rhythmic gymnastics is then not a sport?

It seems the main thing you say is competing against another

By that definition, you are saying online video gaming is a sport and street skating isnt a sport

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Wait ... what?! No ... dude ...

The point of that post was to insinuate how much more pro wrestling is like ballet than actual ... REAL ... sports.

Who said anything about rhythmic gymnastics , et al? lol

Try & keep up.

TKLMAN said:

Since professional wrestling ... y'know , all the WWE stuff ... is less "sport" & more "silly" , let's from now on post any & all threads pertaining to it in the TMF Silly Stuff Forum & keep it out of the TMF Sports Forum. I think it'd be more appropriate that way.

C'mon ... who's w/me?


😛




( lol ... oh , all the wrestling fans are gonna love me now )

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I disagree TKLMAN; perhaps no one here can relate to this as I. I used to wrestle for the APW in Hayward, CA by the name of Jeff Flagrant under some fat fuck that I will leave nameless: real is cutting your forehead open with a sharp object, real is hitting the gym for 2 hours a day twice a day, real is throwing up your breakfast after bouncing off of the ring ropes for 3 hours, real is actually paying your way to wrestling matches and for training only to make a few bucks after a match, real is falling 10 feet flat on your back, real is being smashed in the head with a chair or falling through a table, real is hopping onto a microphone and verbing someone off the cuff, real is refusing to put steroids into your body in order to make it to the show, real is recovering from injuries in a fraction of the time it takes real athletes to recover because there is a match that NEXT fucking night!!!

I have played hockey at a competitive level, as well as football. No one can tell me that wrestling is not real. It was more competitive, cut throat, and required more raw talent than any other sport that I have ever played. Additionally, unlike any other sport, there was fan interaction!!!!

I consider myself in great shape and of sound mind, it was very challenging on the mind and the body; both physically and financially.

Please don't insult the sport, buddy.

Finally!

Knot Amwezed said:

I disagree TKLMAN; perhaps no one here can relate to this as I. I used to wrestle for the APW in Hayward, CA by the name of Jeff Flagrant under some fat fuck that I will leave nameless: real is cutting your forehead open with a sharp object, real is hitting the gym for 2 hours a day twice a day, real is throwing up your breakfast after bouncing off of the ring ropes for 3 hours, real is actually paying your way to wrestling matches and for training only to make a few bucks after a match, real is falling 10 feet flat on your back, real is being smashed in the head with a chair or falling through a table, real is hopping onto a microphone and verbing someone off the cuff, real is refusing to put steroids into your body in order to make it to the show, real is recovering from injuries in a fraction of the time it takes real athletes to recover because there is a match that NEXT fucking night!!!

I have played hockey at a competitive level, as well as football. No one can tell me that wrestling is not real. It was more competitive, cut throat, and required more raw talent than any other sport that I have ever played. Additionally, unlike any other sport, there was fan interaction!!!!

I consider myself in great shape and of sound mind, it was very challenging on the mind and the body; both physically and financially.

Please don't insult the sport, buddy.

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Finally , I get a response that I like ... it's well thought out , passionate , & convincing. Kudos , Knot Amwezed.

However ( you just knew there was going to be a 'however' , didn't ya? ) ...

I still can't find myself to rationally include professional wrestling in w/other sports that are , to me , far more credible.

Yes ... I acknowledge the great physical demands , the endless training , & the extreme dedication that it takes to succeed ( & even to not succeed ) in pro wrestling. Heck , I even admire it! Anyone who decides to put their body & mind through so much punishment deserves a level of respect & recognition for it.

The "problem" I have , though , is that the matches are strictly for show & for entertainment purposes only & don't have anything to do w/its participants ever truly winning anything. The "winner" is determined ahead of time & , for the most part , the entire match is choreographed.

... & to add insult to injury , we're fed these preposterous storylines & ridiculous gimmicks in order to keep things interesting.

To be fair ... it seems to me that there is a great deal more "realness" in the lower circuits of pro wrestling ... which , it sounds like you were describing in your post , Knot Amwezed. Given that , I'm a little surprised that the blatant simulation of true competition by the WWE isn't more offensive to wrestling fans than anything that I have to say about it.

It appears that you went through a lot for your one-time craft , Knot Amwezed ... & again , I respect you for it. But just because something is physically demanding & emotionally draining doesn't necessarily mean that it's a sport.

Actors , stuntmen , circus performers , dancers ... all are entertainers who are called upon to devote a great deal of time , training , dedication , & sacrifice for their respective art form ... just as pro wrestlers are.

I think we'd all agree that acting , stunt-performing , circus-performing , & dancing are not considered to be sports. Why , then , is it so hard to consider that professional wrestling has more to do w/entertaining & less to do w/competitive sports?

TKLMAN said:

Finally , I get a response that I like ... it's well thought out , passionate , & convincing. Kudos , Knot Amwezed.

However ( you just knew there was going to be a 'however' , didn't ya? ) ...

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Thank you, TKL..of course I expected a however...lol.

TKLMAN said:

The "problem" I have , though , is that the matches are strictly for show & for entertainment purposes only & don't have anything to do w/its participants ever truly winning anything. The "winner" is determined ahead of time & , for the most part , the entire match is choreographed.

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They are not choreographed for the most part, at least mine were not….at least 75% of the time we found ourselves communicating throughout the match in order to set up the next scenario. At times the decision of the winner would change hands through communication of the referee and creative control dependent on audience reaction.

TKLMAN said:

... & to add insult to injury , we're fed these preposterous storylines & ridiculous gimmicks in order to keep things interesting.

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True; however, it does keep things interesting, very similar to the storylines the media feeds us regarding the next QB’s hot singing girlfriend, or the WR next temper tantrum, or the next CB that got shot in a drug scandle, or the next pitcher who calls a city “a zoo”. I understand that the public circumstances in wrestling are not real, but there is nothing more real than wrestling when it comes to behind the scenes.

TKLMAN said:

To be fair ... it seems to me that there is a great deal more "realness" in the lower circuits of pro wrestling ... which , it sounds like you were describing in your post , Knot Amwezed. Given that , I'm a little surprised that the blatant simulation of true competition by the WWE isn't more offensive to wrestling fans than anything that I have to say about it.

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Good point, I was supposed to work a match for the WWF back in 2001, but things fell through. (I made it to the show, but they weren’t going to use half of the card that evening, unfortunately I was on that half of the roster). The feeling was totally different, not as real, but more surreal. It didn’t have that feeling of “we are here to bust our ass, as much as we are here, so kiss our ass.” There is a difference between the indy circuits and the big dogs, not in ability, but in attitude.

TKLMAN said:

It appears that you went through a lot for your one-time craft , Knot Amwezed ... & again , I respect you for it. But just because something is physically demanding & emotionally draining doesn't necessarily mean that it's a sport.

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Perhaps that is of an opinion to many, I will forever call it a sport. It is licensed as Sports Entertainment, so maybe it is a bit of both. Keep in mind though, there are storylines in every sport, whether they are real or not, it is always a conclusion left up to the public eye.