Tickling "Cult" Update

Obviously, my comments on the other thread, acting like a hard-ass, was meant to be tongue-in-cheek.

Jeff and I have been talking about this idea quite a bit lately and trying to figure out where we are right now and where we want to be. With Jeff's organizational experience, and after taking everyones suggestions into consideration, this is what we've come up with so far.

First of all, we've all been calling this a cult, and that's a convenient shorthand for what we're talking about, but it also implies some things that we want to avoid confusion over. Nobody is suggesting that people give up their lives, put on a white robe, and move to a farm to pick beans.

What this really is, is an organized idea. The idea is that tickling, in and of itself, is empowering and spiritual, and can lead to greater mental, physical and spiritual health. It's also a lot of fun, which is not the least significant aspect of it. I'm sure we can all get behind those concepts.

All of us here have an interest in tickling, being tickled, or both. Many people call it a fetish, but it's possible that we've inadvertently tapped into something much larger than that.

What we want to do is build a group around this idea, an organization that allows people to explore tickling on a deeper and fuller level than has ever been possible before. Jeff and I see it as a coming together of the NEST, the TMF, and his World Ministry of Laughter, into a monolith of tickling possibilities.

To that end we've come up with some basic structural ideas and some starting principles, based on the feedback already given.

First: Men and women will be equal in the group. There will be different levels of advancement, to be determined later, but gender will have nothing to do with it. Lers and Lees, tops and bottoms, subs and doms, will be determined by personality and individual preference.

Second: Penances will be an integral part of the structure, and they will be based on the level of advancement of the individuals. The basic idea here, which will need to be fleshed out over time, is that people who have advanced in the hierarchy will have far greater experience in tickling and being tickled than a novice will, and a deeper understanding of the consequences, and will have far greater training in gauging peoples needs and tolerances.

We might even have certain people who are particularly advanced, skilled, and empathic, as official punishers (Lee, we're looking in your direction.) For example if a higher level member transgresses against a very low level member, it might be necessary to send the higher level member to someone specifically qualified, to be penanced.

Which leads to Three: Safewords will be used, but possibly only at the earlier levels. Higher level people may be judged to have moved beyond the need for them. Their judgement and trust level may have graduated to a point where they no longer need to use them either as lers or lees.

Fourth: There will have to be dues to cover expenses. One thing that Jeff and I have both discovered from the TMF and the NEST is that these things cost money and there are always unexpected costs that surprise you. And putting the financial burden on one persons shoulders is not only unfair, it's ultimately limiting and crippling. If we want this to really grow, we're going to have to build in a way for it to be self-sustaining right from the start.

Okay now. The topic is, once again, open to discussion.

Max

I seen this coming from the start... Will there be chapters or do you plan to start out with a single compound and branch out?

I hope you don't mind if I pick this apart a bit. I just want to help point out areas that will need clarification and give some openings for doing so.

MaxSpeer said:

Obviously, my comments on the other thread, acting like a hard-ass, was meant to be tongue-in-cheek...

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That's good to hear. There were times when it wasn't easy to tell if you were being serious or not. One of the drawbacks of online communication.

MaxSpeer said:

First: Men and women will be equal in the group. There will be different levels of advancement, to be determined later, but gender will have nothing to do with it. Lers and Lees, tops and bottoms, subs and doms, will be determined by personality and individual preference..

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That sounds good. While the male dominant thing was a fun idea, it's likely not as practical in this...especially since we have so many ruthless female lers among us. It would have been a shame to not utilize them. 😉

MaxSpeer said:

Second: Penances will be an integral part of the structure, and they will be based on the level of advancement of the individuals. The basic idea here, which will need to be fleshed out over time, is that people who have advanced in the hierarchy will have far greater experience in tickling and being tickled than a novice will, and a deeper understanding of the consequences, and will have far greater training in gauging peoples needs and tolerances..

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That last part is a point that I'd like to see fleshed out more. Do you anticipate actual "training" of lers? Or does this refer more to the experience that someone gets over time? I really think that some instruction as to things to watch for in your lee, knowing how to read them is an important thing. Granted every lee is different to some degree. But, knowing some basics rather than jumping in and simply trying to make them scream is a good thing. It would make the experience more fulfilling for both.

MaxSpeer said:

We might even have certain people who are particularly advanced, skilled, and empathic, as official punishers (Lee, we're looking in your direction.) For example if a higher level member transgresses against a very low level member, it might be necessary to send the higher level member to someone specifically qualified, to be penanced..

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Are you looking at specifics to act as a guide for this? What constitutes a transgression? Are you looking at switches to fill this type of role? etc............

MaxSpeer said:

Which leads to Three: Safewords will be used, but possibly only at the earlier levels. Higher level people may be judged to have moved beyond the need for them. Their judgement and trust level may have graduated to a point where they no longer need to use them either as lers or lees..

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I think I'd only do without safewords when the lers are very much experienced and attuned to the lee enough to know when they need to back off a bit...or whatever. I've known lers who truly care but go into auto pilot at times and don't even hear you when you use the safeword, much less watch for signs before you do. This is something that's entirely possible. But, it's something that would demand an attentive ler, not just a trusting lee.

MaxSpeer said:

Fourth: There will have to be dues to cover expenses. One thing that Jeff and I have both discovered from the TMF and the NEST is that these things cost money and there are always unexpected costs that surprise you. And putting the financial burden on one persons shoulders is not only unfair, it's ultimately limiting and crippling. If we want this to really grow, we're going to have to build in a way for it to be self-sustaining right from the start.

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I totally agree. There are always going to be things that arise that go beyond what was expected. Having that added expense fall into the lap of one individual (or even a few people) rather than being shared by the entire group isn't conducive to anyone taking a leadership role. I think we'd eventually need to identify potential expenses and have a few checks and balances to be sure that the moneys go where they are intended. While I personally know you guys enough to trust you, others may not. You might also want to identify projected expenses at some point too...bondage gear, tickle tools, etc. to be shared by the community.

Some other thoughts, for clarification purposes....

You mention tickling as a means for growth on many levels.

In considering the spiritual aspects of that, one of the things that occurred to me was that those who are lees can benefit greatly on a spiritual level by learning to let go of control and learn to trust. The helplessness that one can feel during a good tickle session can actually lead that person to a greater strength in facing other situations simply because they've overcome (to whatever degree) that natural fear that most people have of being helpless. That's a very empowering thing.

On the flip side, those who are lers can grow considerably by learning to focus on the other person and not themself. They can learn empathy and compassion, among other things. Again, this can carry over into everyday life and make them a better person.

There are many things that can be achieved if we open ourselves to it.

You mention levels of advancement.

Do you have any thoughts as to what those levels would be and how far things would be taken? Obviously, there are differences in how folks view tickling and what they hope to gain from it. So, that would play into how deeply involved an individual would get and/or play into where we set things to go to begin with.

A suggestion for the organization phase...

You may want to look at getting some folks who are totally or primarily lees involved in the early stages of this. While a good ler can anticipate the thoughts and needs of a lee, I think you need some input from lees to help set structural ideas and help to flesh things out some more. I'm not sure about Jeff. But, I know that you're pretty much exclusively a ler.

A general question...

If you could set an ultimate goal down in writing for what you want to achieve through this, what would it be?

OK, I'll stop for now. But, I really think this is a doable thing given enough organization, input and flexibility.

Ann

PS - AFA the live-in thing with picking beans....I happen to LIKE beans! lol

What if someone already has a spiritual belief system? Would they have to convert? Would other spiritual beliefs be condemed? Also what would happen to those who jumped at the chance to join up then, later decided it was more than they'd bargained for. Would they be allowed to just walk away in peace or would there be a punishment. What if someone were raped or worse? What then? Surely some harsh punishment would be in order followed by exile. What about guards and a policing system? Would the organization be self governed? There are trials and hearings to consider as well in prooving a crime against another member or one's innocence. There are still many things to consider.

So what are we talking about here, a full time commune, with its own location/premises and live in members ? If so then it could perhaps be financed by offering week long holiday breaks for those who can't just pack up their lives full time to join.

Interesting concept, and I am looking forward to seeing where you are going to go with it.

Max just wants to be the Hugh Hefner of tickling. That's all.😛

Max, Darling, ...

That sounds like a lovely plan, to me 🙂

I'll be happy to assist in any way I can.

I've also made robes, long ago, for the
acolytes in my church. I'm sure I could
come up with a stylish and accessible
for tickling design.

Lee

I like the way this is shaping up. Especially the greater flexibility on the whole m/f issue.
Just a few other thoughts. On the subject of pennance, perhaps this can take other forms besides tickling. Their forms tailored to a person's interests. Such as being required to perform a specified number of pedicures, or foot massages. Either for a specific individual, or have a place set aside where the penitent provides them for whoever might come in. Naturally taking into account a person's m/f preferences. Or helping someone to learn, greater patience, humility, or self control by being required to meditate on a pair of bare, wiggling soles for a few hours. Of course, these suggestions are based on MY particular interests!
Also, I think there should be a system that insures that in any training environment everyone that actually makes themselves available are picked on a fair basis. So if tickling methods are being worked on, lers and lees are picked completely at random.
One more thing. I've seen JUST RECENTLY on TV yet another story about people who get together and just laugh their heads off. And all for most of the same reasons, laughter promotes health, well being , etc. Tickling isn't involved, but I don't see how it can be SO outrageous taking it just one more step.
So, just a few ideas. I hope this continues to progress!

question

i know its waaaaaaaaay to early to be thinking about this but i was woundering, if this cult is successlful and becomes larger, is there a chance it will would be able to be split into devisions/factions/branch across the globe where ya got leaders of each one representing that particular part of the cult, i mean it would allow otheres who arent state side and cant really travel such a distance but still could to be a part of this great idea as there would be one closer to home, for everyone.

I am no expert in these kinds of things but ya do get alot of cults that do that, you know and you have like a main headquater which would obviously be the states. you get where im coming from?

I am very interested in this idea Max. It seems like you're really serious about creating a Tickling Religious Cult and I am totally for that. Where would it be held? How often would the group meet? Once a week or what? Well, that's all the questions I have for now.

Easy people, easy! He said it would be an organization. The cult thing was in the original thread. I agree with feet though about having chapters and maybe even divisions that slightly differ in one way or another. Those religious laughers, I've heard of them. They may be easily swayed into joining. It's worth a try. I'll see if I can locate some of them online and ask them how they feel about tickling.

Clearly I'm pleased at the new equality of men and women. Thank you kindly, Max. 🙂

Gonna watch for the answers to already posted questions and reserve all other comments for now.

Well, those of you who find me annoying will be happy to know that I nearly choked on a piece of letuce a minute ago because I was thinking about that stuped Hefner joke when suddenly "The Tickle Boy Mansion" popped into my head and I bursted into laughter while I was eating! 😛

LeeAllure said:

That sounds like a lovely plan, to me 🙂

I'll be happy to assist in any way I can.

I've also made robes, long ago, for the
acolytes in my church. I'm sure I could
come up with a stylish and accessible
for tickling design.

Lee

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Lee if your evilness was in any way associated with punishment... WOW... I've never met a more sadistic girl in my entire existance. Which is of course why I adore you.

These threads have had me cracking up. Max is truly brilliant.

Well, i have read through all the details of this, and though I don't have anything to add in yet, I will say that I am defenitely and will add my input as time goes on.

That is of course, if Max would ever respond to me.

some quick thoughts on the structure

I suggest that we have seven levels of advancement, called circles (seven being a very strong number for a variety of reasons and circles also being a very strong symbol) and each circle has three rings, represending degrees of advancement. The attached diagram shows what I mean.

A new member would start in the first circle, third ring. They would graduate into the second ring, then first ring, and then they would become a member of the second circle, third ring, and so on...

Upon reaching the center of the seventh circle, they would be a member of what might be considered an elder council (hopefully not its final name 🙂 ) and that group would lead the organization. The elder council would all be equals, but would be led by Max because while democracy is valid and good, ultimately you need one set of hands on the steering wheel. And in addition to this being his idea in the first place, Max has a lot of spiritual qualifications as well. I happen to know that he has been deeply involved in transcendental meditation for many years, and he is also extremely charistmatic and has a heart of gold.

Also he's been a pioneer in our community for longer than most of us have even known that there was a community. (He's the guy who originally coined the terms 'ler and 'lee that we all use so casually now 🙂 )

I have some thoughts on what the various levels might represent, but nothing concrete yet. I'd be curious to hear what others think.

I've also begun to have some thoughts on what this might look like in 1 year, 3 years, 5 years and 10 years, but I don't think I'm ready to share those yet 🙂 If I'm right, it's pretty amazing though.

In addition to having degrees of advancement, we should also, as has been touched on, have specific ranks within them. For example, we might have security specialists or, my personal favorite, punishment specialists, who would have a minimum advancement level in order to qualify (to pull an example from the air, they might have to be at least 4th circle, second ring.)

I really believe in this idea, and I think we are at the cusp of one of those rare moments when great events can be seeded into being.

What about stun ticklers? Do security officers get stun ticklers? Can I be the sadistic head of security?

I have no problem with referring to this community as a cult. The word "cult" has long since lost its negative overtones ever since they started talking about cult films, like "Rocky Horror Picture Show," and calling groups that flock to the theaters a cult.

It's just a certain group of people who are heavily into one particlar thing, or idea, whever it be tickling, a movie, or what have you.

Referring to is as a cult actually sounds better to me than calling it a fetish. Maybe calling it a cult could lead to it becoming more mainstream and accepted. I only wish that it was easier for ticklephiles to get together in person, rather than just discuss the various aspects of tickling on this forum.

Maybe some day

Sounds like a good way to organize things, Jeff. Have you and Max (and anyone else) discussed what goals each level would seek to obtain?

Obviously things like tollerance for a greater amount of tickling on the part of lees and the ability to bring lees to certain states for lers would be among the things that would be likely to boost someone in the ranks. But, if we're looking at this as how it benefits us on physical, emotional and spiritual levels, we'd need goals in those areas as well.

I'll also stick my neck out and ask the question that's likely on the minds of many. How far does this go? Do we cross the lines into sexual contact as a part of this? Or does that get left to individuals to do on their own? I'm sure that would be a deciding issue for some to join or not join.

Ann

PS - I'm not trying to be a pain asking all these questions. I just think it helps to further define exactly what we're talking about so people can have a better sense of whether or not it's something they want to commit to. 😉

Organization huh? Besides ranks, obviously you would have "robes" that seperate the 'lers' from the 'lees' and then the ones that go both ways.
I'm slowly pondering the possiblities here. I'm new - this is the first I've ever read about any 'cult'. Maybe?

Illtcklu said:

I'm new - this is the first I've ever read about any 'cult'. Maybe?

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Really?? Well, it's been joked about on and off over the years but, this is the first time anyone has ever acted serious about it or took it seriously. I'm sure it's been proposed before sometime, somewhere but, just didn't take off.

Hiryu said:

Really?? Well, it's been joked about on and off over the years but, this is the first time anyone has ever acted serious about it or took it seriously. I'm sure it's been proposed before sometime, somewhere but, just didn't take off.

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Well as I said I'm new! Just signed on this month! I do have some questions about this though:

If ther are 'ranks' how and who determines them? Will there be 'judges' of some kind?

What exactly changes your rank?

Is this taking a 'game' too far?

I really don't want to have to explain my 'robes' to nonTMF friends I think that could cause some unessary embaressment!

I think it's time I weigh in a little. I have been content, for a while, letting the topic take on a life of its own, hearing the various opinions and suggestions.

I like a lot of what I've heard so far. Obviously, Jeff and I have been discussing this, and I am anxious to get a conversation going with Ann.

The seeds of all of this started as far back as when I wrote the first KITTLETOWN novels. The idea is of a Utopian society where Tickling is not only the normal in interpersonal relationships, but actually built into the social structure. In KITTLETOWN, it is on TV, in cartoons, endorsed in commercials, and there is a main outlet for tickling beautiful women. These women are not treated like prostitutes but rather revered and held in the highest position in the social scene. They are untouchable. They are treated like Goddesses.

There is a way to organize, socialize, and yet keep within the comfort of an organized group. Some call this a cult. I call it a safety net. There has been talk, over the years about bring Tickling into the mainstream, getting the public aware of it and who we are. I am not sure this is a wise thing. In some ways, it alienates us even more because people who don't get "it" might never get "it" and will only ridicule. What we need to do is get people to come to us and not reach out and mix with the mainstream. Before we 'burst' into the mainstream, we need a strong infrastructure, otherwise the few who put themselves out as spokespersons for Tickling will get shot down. These brave people need organization behind them.

BTW: On the subject of robes. I am sure that we will NOT be wearing robes. Again, this will only lead us to be ridiculed and made fun of, something we need as much as a hole in the head.

The next part of all of this came as a result of the NEST Gatherings. For those who have had the fortune of attending these events, they can all attest to the fact that there is a euphoria that takes place that is so intense and so wonderful that many people actually go through a crash and burn for weeks after it is over.

We are all Beings that share this common 'thing'. It is more than an interest. It is what makes us what we are. Through NEST, we have found that when we are together, we feel good. Maybe it's chemical. Maybe it's spiritual. I don't know.

Max

MaxSpeer said:

I like a lot of what I've heard so far. Obviously, Jeff and I have been discussing this, and I am anxious to get a conversation going with Ann.
Max

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I'll be in touch. This could be a really cool thing if we do get it rolling. If I'm understanding your intent correctly, I think it's very doable.

Ann

I agree with Max on a lot of things especially not wearing robes. The robes are a nice fantasy but, that's it. Whenever you try to mix fantasy with reality, you're automaticly labled a loon. That's why you only see Treckies and Treckers in costume at cons and Halloween. I would love to be dressed in a dark, hooded robe over battle armor almost every day of my life but, I know better then to try it. Fantasy and reality often clash with ugly results. It just isn't worth it.